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Work in Progress / Mode-Na Engine Editor

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 13:52 Edited at: 17th Sep 2006 01:35
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Hello community!

My team and me (actually 2 people and some friends helping a bit) are working on an Engine-Editor since a few weeks.

**What is the Mode-Na Engine?**

Mode-Na is the short version of Modern Nature, as we call this "Engine". It isn't really a self-made engine, because we use the one from DBP, but we just try to improve it.
We're developing a set of usefull functions for faster collision, Level of Detail etc.
Also we use some nice addons like Dark Physics, Dark AI and BlueGUI.


**Progress**
The engine itself isn't very far developped, about 250 lines of code, but what we're intensively working on, is the editor.
At the moment you can create high-quality-heightmaps very easily or let them be generated(But we need some more algorithms for the automatic heightmap-generation). Also you can edit the base-texture, layed of the terrain (Note: This feature doesn't work atm, because when trying to speed it up a bit, I seemed to have demolished it a bit, so it doesn't really work anymore... going to repair it).
The next included feature is the 3D-View of the map. You can simply move around, change the wireframe-mode and scale the terrain.
It's not yet possible to change the texture in 3D-View-mode, how it seems to be because of the interface.

**Scripting-Language**

I've been working on our Scripting-Engine 'Modern Script' now, and it's really handy.
You can add new commands to an array, very simple with the 'MScAddCommand(Commandname$, Parameternumber)'-Function. Then you can open a file and let it be checked by the debugging-function. This function looks, if the file includes any commands which are not saved in the array, or if any command hasn't got the right number of parameters behind.
You can check, if there are any errors, and if not (or even if, you can also just ignore them) you can let the file be went through step by step by the MScReadNext()-Function, and let the commands automatically be executed. What each command does, can be declared in the 'MScExecuteCommand()'-Function.
You can also set the string, which seperates the parameters (Mostly the ','-sign), and choose different Commenting-types. It's possible to declare commands for "rem"-like commenting to 'hide' the rest of a line, or you can hide code-blocks with commands working as "remstart"-"remend". E.g you could name them "Comment", "Start Comment-Block" and "End Comment-Block".


**Team-Request**
I hope, that the thread will not be locked because of this, but we need some help.
I'd appreciate, if someone coded one or more functions for the automatic heightmap-generation.
But what's most important now, is an 2D artist, being able to create some concept images of weapons, vehicles, buildings etc.
We're making the engine to develop a futuristic game later, so our modeller needs some concepts of futuristic objects.

**Screenshots**
Everyone likes screenshots, so here are some of the heightmap-Editor.

-The Base-Texture-Editing-Mode



-The 3D-View of the heightmap



-A simple heightmap built in a few seconds



-The automatic Heightmap-Generator (I know... the heightmap is better for a bump-mapping effect, then a landscape )



-The 3D-lanscape in wireframe-mode



So far... I'd appreciate some comments, constructive criticism or maybe some people being interested in helping us.

I know, that the projects state is very early, but I thought, I could post it now, because it's already a good and simple-to-use heightmap-editor.

Next I want to say, that if someone wants to help us, he doesn't have to stay in the team all the time, and we don't force him to work many hours a day. We're developping for fun, and not to create ultimate projects in a couple of weeks... and if someone wants to leave the team, he just has to say it.

We can't be sure of finishing the project, so it's also possible, that we stop working on it before we finish it.. no one's able to look in the future.

Thanks for your answers,
and as nearly no thread-creator, I don't like doubleposting.

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 14:44
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how did you manage to get a hige amount of polygons on the screen while still maintaining a decent frame rate?

The terrain looks impressive as far as the smoothness factor goes.

WORLD - A free World editor, capable of creating the most complex of worlds (including physics, skies, water, shaders, terrain editing and more). Best of all, it's FREE!
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 14:54
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I don't really know, why the framerate is so high. Maybe it's easier for dbp to manage a terrain-object, then "normal" objects like characters, because I didn't do anything for speed-improvement for the 3D-View...

Thanks for the comment.

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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 15:29
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Looks pretty nice! Like the terrain generator.

Ummm...
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Jrock
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 16:27
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Gee I wonder where you got the idea for this one (Cough* Cough* My WIP Cough* Cough*)Just kidding . Anyway, looks pretty nice.

Ok the mods got rid of my sig...
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 16:36
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Sorry if i "stole" your idea.

We want the editor to become a kind of game-development package, using our engine. And we want to make it as comfortable as possible, so that the user is able to create the world with a few clicks. The terrain-editor isn't very good for professional quality-landscapes, but if you don't have much time or don't want to spend much time in creating the world, it's a good alternative.
But of course we try to make it as good as possible.

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Jrock
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 16:41
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Quote: "Sorry if i "stole" your idea. "


No you didn't . Actually I wouldn't care even if you did because it would be the highest form of flattery.

But really this does look awsome, how much would you sell this for (If you did)?

Ok the mods got rid of my sig...
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 16:50
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You mean, how much money I would take for the actual heightmap editor, or the full editor, when it's ready?

If you mean the actual editor... well... I don't know, it runs very slowly in editing mode and the interface isn't the best. Also you can't load heightmaps, so I guess, I wouldn't sell it.

If you mean the ready editor, then I don't know. I'll see, what quality it is going to have, and if it won't be very good, I could also let it be freeware. We'll see.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 18:59
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Might just be me but "Moderna" sounds cooler than "Mode-Na". Meh.

(Looking cool)

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 23:28
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I think, Mode-Na might be good because theres a town in... Italy, I guess (Or Spain? Oo) with this name.

--Update--

**Scripting-Language**

I've been working on our Scripting-Engine 'Modern Script' for a few minutes now, and it's really handy.

You can add new commands to an array, very simple with the 'MScAddCommand(Commandname$, Parameternumber)'-Function. Then you can open a file and let it be checked by the debugging-function. This function looks, if the file includes any commands which are not saved in the array, or if any command hasn't got the right number of parameters behind.
You can check, if there are any errors, and if not (or even if, you can also just ignore them) you can let the file be went through step by step by the MScReadNext()-Function, and let the commands automatically be executed. What each command does, can be declared in the 'MScExecuteCommand()'-Function.
You can also set the string, which seperates the parameters (Mostly the ','-sign), and I'm going to build in the possibility of including comments in the scripting files.

It's really easy to use, and runs fast enough, at the moment.

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 21st Sep 2006 19:19 Edited at: 21st Sep 2006 19:26
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Doesn't anybody help us developping the engine/editor/game?

Howerever... I made a little example of the actual engine-progress.

You can control a ball from the 1st or 3rd-person view with a standart-fps-movement (running and (a little buggy)jumping) or you can (what is the main-feature) let the ball "slide" (=roll, except the ball isn't rotating) over the terrain.
It's nothing brilliant, but kind of funny.

I also added a "SplitString"-function to the engine, splitting strings like "This|is|a|test" into the elements. When calling the function, I can choose the split-sign and also "bracket"-signs. So if the Split-Sign is '-' and the bracket-signs are '<' and '>', the string "This-is-<The - signs in this bracket are un-important>-a-test" would become


I'm also adding a fast 2D-Line-collision function... so I'm not just writing the "Engine" but also some usefull functions.


~I attached the ball-sliding-example.

Edit:

**Controls**

WASD and Space - FPS-Movement
Mouse - View
Right-Mouse - Slide
V - Change View-Type

btw: The screen-fps-number is so high, because it just counts the main-loops, and not the screen-updating-rate.

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 25th Sep 2006 20:27
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Hmm, no one seems to be interested anymore.

Did anyone test the example?
However, here is a screenshot of it "in action".




And here's the screenshot of a little shooter example I made, but I don't know, if I should upload it... you can just run over the landscape and shoot on this brown boxes, and throw very unrealistic grenades.. And yes, I've copied the weapon from a multiplayer shooter we all know, and I am just pasting the image every loop. But I made the shooting-fire completely myself



So... please comment anything (If possible, anything belonging to the topic).

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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 25th Sep 2006 23:07 Edited at: 25th Sep 2006 23:09
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1. There's just no way you're getting 449045 FPS on that first shot. Stop lying to us.

2. Why is the FPS gun on the left side of the screen? To me that's just awkward. Edit: Wait, that looks like a bad Photoshop to me. Stop faking stuff!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2006 23:25 Edited at: 25th Sep 2006 23:26
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Nice photoshop job mate, I was gonna compliment this project, but I don't like it when people fake.

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Jerok
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Posted: 26th Sep 2006 02:14
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Quote: "Nice photoshop job mate, I was gonna compliment this project, but I don't like it when people fake."

Quote: "Edit: Wait, that looks like a bad Photoshop to me. Stop faking stuff!"


he said he was just pasting the gun image on the screen so technicly hes not faking
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greenlig
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Posted: 26th Sep 2006 02:37
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yeh, he is using a cut out as a weapon guys, go easy!! Didnt you play delta force??? they did it!

Looks interesting.

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 26th Sep 2006 15:23 Edited at: 26th Sep 2006 20:13
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Uh... thanks Jerok and greeling. How I already said:
1. The fps are so high because they just count how often the main loop is gone through, and that's so often, because I don't do the calculations and syncs more often then necessary.
2. I've already said, that the gun copied from a game we all know. I've taken a screenshot (btw: In CS my gun is always at the left side), copied it into paint and just cut it out. Also the skysphere is made by a friend, but the Landscape and textures, and also the code is made by me... and because I informed you about everything what's a "fake", the example isn't really a fake.

Anyway.. thanks for the comments so far.

Edit:

Didn't anyone test the example? Maybe no one has seen the 'download'-button... so here's the link again.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_download.php?i=1005430
Thanks.

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eek
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 04:16
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It's nice looking! I'm surpised at how well it runs even with 300,000 polygons. The grass texture could be replaced, the dark spots look unnatural. Interesting example though, it has some potential.
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sneaky smith12
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 15:00 Edited at: 27th Sep 2006 15:04
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[Edit]
this once again proves to me that I do not pay enough attention, hehe
Ran with caps lock on lol how funny.
the v button dont work for me although then again not much ever works for me, Your editor looks nice, although i'd like a third person view hehe.

god job

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 21:29 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 21:42
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OK, a little update again today.

1. I've updated our scripting engine, so it's really much faster than before, and also better structured.

2. The last days I've been working on a little "Techdemo" again, but this time I tried to include the whole gameplay.
Also I'm going to add Level of Detail for the terrain. There actually is a kind of Object-LoD included. If the trees (they are kind of comic-style, so we'll change them in our project later) are far away, they're replaced with plain-like flat tree-objects, but atm. without texture because there is a bug somewhere in the model... but we are going to fix that too, of course.

What's done so far:
Basic movement (WASD)
Jetpack
Surfing over the terrain (like in example 1)
Graphics: Terrain, Trees, (moving) Weapon, Skycube
Tree-LOD

Here a screenshot:

Note: The texture of the weapon will also be replaced, we just don't like creating textures.



I'm going to add the link to a video later, and maybe a demo.
We also develop the engine itself, it has 71 commands (made with functions) now, but most of them are just copies of dbp's object commands, because the object-management is done different than in DBP.

Thanks for the comments so far, and thanks for the following answers!


Edit:

Here is the image of another landscape we made with the editor:



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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 13:08 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 02:11
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And a next screenshot:



So.. any comments about the landscapes? They are mostly made for multiplayer-matches, so we try to make them nearly symetric.
What we have to improve, is the base and detail-texture, I think.. We'll see.

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Azrael
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 22:05
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What is meant with "Tree LoD"? The trees are not looking quite detailed, so why LOD? Did you really get a real LOD function to work? Or is it just an "object hiding if not in view" function?

Anyway .. it looks promising.

Ahh .. and the fog effect on the terrain looks ok but in combination with the sky it acts a bit weird.

Keep it up ..
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 23:51
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You're right, the tree's aren't very detailed, atm they have 140 polygon, but as I said, the are going to be replaced by better ones.

Our level-of-detail-procedure just checks the distance of the trees, and if it's higher then a defined value, they are "replaced" with low-polygon models. At the last screenshots it's not really good to see, because the distance ist too high, but trees with higher distance are just plainlike, flat objects with 20 polygons, and atm without a texture.
First I used transparent plains, but that was slower then using this 140-polygon-trees..
Also the function doesn't change the mesh, but hides the high-poly-object and shows the low-poly one, or the other way round, depending on their distance to the camera.

We're also going to change the bad looking of the fog next to the sky, by changing the sky-color at the horizon, some professional games also use this technique.

Maybe I'm going to upload the demo, after removing this damn bug.
Maybe the next days.. or let me better say, "When it's done".

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Azrael
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 00:44
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I'm curious whether theres an real measureable difference with LOD and without. In my opinion and experience the problem in dbp are many objects and not many triangles ..

>>First I used transparent plains, but that was slower then using this 140-polygon-trees..

But it will definitively look better if you're using the right textures.
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 13:24
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I guess, the differnce is acceptable.
In the last screenshots the LOD-Distance was very high, but if it's not, I get mostly 5~10% more fps.
But I think, it will be even better when the models have more polygons than 140.

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 16:39 Edited at: 9th Oct 2006 16:40
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So, here's an update again:
I've created the lightmapping-tool for our Heightmap-Editor. Now it's possible to simple generate a lightmap based on the heightmap and the sun-position.
Loading the heightmap, generating and smoothing the lightmap and saving it into a file needs atm about 2-3 seconds on my computer, and I think this is acceptable.
Later I'm going to add a blending-feature, so that you can lie the lightmap onto the base-texture of the terrain.

Here some screenshots:

I started with this heightmap:


When the sun comes from the north-west, the lightmap looks like this:


Sun from north-east:


In 3D, nearly from the sun-direction:


From the left side:


And from behind:



I guess it's realistic. Maybe I'm going to blend a lightmap over a basetexture later for a better screenshot.

I also planned to let the lightmapping-tool work as a stand-alone-tool, so I'm working on the Interface now.

That was it.
Any.. comments?

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Jerok
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 02:53
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the light mapper looks really great if nothing else i would use this just for that
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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 20:47
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So, I've improved the tool a bit. Now it has kind of "professional" interface and the most important features are included:

-Load heightmaps/Lightmaps/Textures
-Create a lightmap based on the heightmap
-blend the lightmap over the texture
-set sun-direction
-save texture

Here two screenshots:

1. The original texture (not made by me, I think I've got it from the ultimate shader-pack..):


2. Now I lightmapped it (needed 3 or 4 seconds), the sun comes from the north-east.


In my opinion it looks really realistic, especially, if it's used with dbp-standart-terrain-lightning, when it comes from the same direction.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 01:15
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Quote: "he said he was just pasting the gun image on the screen so technicly hes not faking "


Apologies, I take back my comment.

Its looking good mate, good luck with it.

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Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 20:12
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Quote: "Apologies, I take back my comment."


No problem.

Quote: "Its looking good mate, good luck with it."


Thanks.

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