Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Most Games with 'missions' stink

Author
Message
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 16:05
This is purely personal preference but I think games with missions stink big time. In fact mission-based game play is just too close to WORKING for my liking. GTA:San Andreas was just like doing one big long stint of overtime, unpaid. Games with missions are predictable - you've been told whats going to happen before you even start so the only thing that is a surprise is what it looks like and how well the AI might entertain you. Occassionally, a game with missions will make things go unexpectedly and change the missions objectives halfway through - and that almost keeps me interested...but.....in the end its just annoying.

I prefer games where the next bit just can't be guessed like Half Life and Half Life 2. These games do have "objectives" but these just keep changing and are always short term and aren't dictated to you with irritating "Level 2 is now loading - please read the instructions."-type screens.

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 16:13 Edited at: 18th Sep 2006 16:15
I find HL2 as predictable as the rest of them, even more so infact because of the extremely limited number of things that can ever happen (you enter zone, something attacks, you kill it, you move on - perhaps stopping to collect an item you need, or open a door). The only challenge is in the killing of the enemies, or solving some small puzzle, neither of which require much brain work, probably why I got bored of HL2 EP1 and never finished it.

Saying you never know what will happen around the corner is wrong - you know exactly what will happen: something will attack you. It rarely gets more complex than that. What drives it on (for me) is the story, the cinematics and break-scenes, and the changes in environment. The core game objects/missions/whatever are identical throughout though.

All games have objectives, even Pong. If they call them 'missions' it's just a collection of objectives under a different heading. If they didn't have any objectives, they'd be no actual point to playing them because there would actually be nothing to do.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
Zerk
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th May 2006
Location: Orbiting Jupiter
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 16:18
I've been playing Saints Row lately. It is VERY much like GTA as far as game play with the exception of how they implemented missions. Missions in GTA you would just go on after you passed or failed. If you fail a mission in SR, you are asked if you want to retry. If you say yes, it takes you to the start point of the mission with all the stuff you had when you started it the first time. If you say no, it just goes on like as in GTA. It's really nice.

I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do. ~Hal-9000
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 16:19
I might add that a lot of players get a considerable amount of satisfaction out of playing a certain 'mission' and gaining its objectives by executing a pre-made plan flawlessly. In partciular, the Rainbow Six games stemmed from this idea, of course, it's not everyones cup of tea so some of the later games in the series (i.e. Raven Shield) don't require you to create a plan. All down to personal preference though.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Bahamut
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2005
Location: Brighton
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 16:24
I don't know that missions stink, but I always like to have the option of when to do them. I hate timed missions because I don't like to be rushed.

That's why I like RPGs like Oblivion, Baldurs Gate or even FF (though I mostly love FF for a different reason). There is a linear story (sometimes variable, sometimes not) with tasks that could be described as missions, but I can do them in my own time when I wish.

So games like No One Lives Forever, whilst good, can't hold my attention because there's nothing to do but the missions.

IceBound Melodic rock/metal band with loads of lead guitar, clean female vocals, and more guitars! What more could you want?
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 18:35
Sorry Richard but I think you're totally wrong about HL2, the structure is predictable yes - but if you're playing a game and analysing the structure while you play it's like watching a movie with special FX and spending the whole time trying to work out how they did it (like I did during Star Wars ep1-3) instead of just enjoying the experience. I don't try to anticipate whats going to happen.

Episode 1 for me was only disappointing because so many assets were just reused and the sense of awe at the new was gone. I still played it through twice because the commentary was awesome.

I'll play the GTA series again when it stops pretending to be a "sandbox" game and actually becomes one.(And they make the combat decent.)

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 18:36
Quote: "I'll play the GTA series again when it stops pretending to be a "sandbox" game and actually becomes one.(And they make the combat decent.)"


Huh? GTA is as sandbox as I've ever seen a game get.

Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 18:45
Quote: "but if you're playing a game and analysing the structure while you play"


Like when you play GTA you mean?

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
jinzai
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 19th Sep 2006 05:30
Maybe....people enjoy it in ways that are unique to them. I do both. There are games that I just lose myself in the gameplay, and those that I analyze. I don't consider any one better than another on that basis. GTA is interesting because it seems to have ushered in this era of unrestricted gameplay. Okay, then...that's a valid subgenre, as well...I don't think it will ever supplant structured gameplay. Certainly, I dearly love perfecting my technique in games...whether I am on a mission against the Third Reich, or trying to hold a sniper position in Liberty City.
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 19th Sep 2006 10:20
I find recently that traditional and well written missions are the only way that I feel challenged. Stealth tactics in Oblivion for example, I really liked the Dark Brotherhood missions, especially the 'whodunnit' one, because seriously - nobody wants to wander around dungeons on their own, in the dark, for no good reason.

Having an objective is the only thing making you want to enter that cave, it's the only reason we'd do this crazy stuff in these games, otherwise the only people who'd play the games would be sand boxers.

I think the tired old formulaes get used too much, but when the game is huge, made by dozens of designers, then it's bound to happen. It's always a series of missions, it get's to the point where you can almost imagine the script... DoWhile enemies>0 and keysleft>0

Objective based gameplay can often feel like an incomplete jigsaw - you could find an objective you missed right at the start, and go and do it - find it incredibly easy and the NPC's practically condescending. I think that if it's possible to do a mission at any point, then it should reflect more the current player achievements.
Once you'd completed the main game in Oblivion, you should'nt really need to run around daft joining guilds, trying to get peons to vouch for you and stuff like that. The worst thing is when your character is all kick-ass, they still have to wander round sewers killing rats, to make like 100 gold - hmm, help that paranoid twit for 150 gold or go to the arena and kill 3 minotaur lords for 2700 gold excl finery, hmmmm.

San Andreas was great, might be because of the era it's set in, but I really got into that game. I agree about it's sandbox nature, I'd say that a lot of it is enforced on the player - but the way you can pimp your car, and all the extra bits just make it decent fun to mess around in. Some people don't care about finishing games, they'd rather cause havoc, hunt for secrets, gamble! - gambling in San Andreas rocks - I made a fortune playing blackjack in the casino with the handy save point right outside. People find these well implimented elements and make themselves at home, and that's really what makes these games so huge - everyone can find something to do to entertain themselves.

HL2, well I kinda got tired of the rigmarole in ep.1 - namely that damned level where you've to escort people back and forth, like 8 times - that's just bull. Ohh, they try to mix it up, with different spawn positions or the odd helicopter - but in a story based game like HL2, you should never be a shepherd, you have far more important things to do surely!. HL2 is mostly common FPS gameplay, but I would say there's some great bits. The tension for instance when you first come across the snipers, I thought that bit was great, kinda creepy and makes you really stop and think. The bits with the buggy and the boat, that was cool too. Really, they could make a HL2 episode that is all vehicle based, and I'd be happy - it's like a break from the rigmarole of FPS when you can speed away in your little car and take them on from a different angle. Using the antlions in the prison is a good example too - very diverse gameplay, and there's lots of scope for ideas - but yeah, 90% of the game is set indoors, shooting headcrabs and zombies and soldiers again.
I find that 'episodes' tend to be excuses for the designers to show off the bits of design they were most proud of, which is fine, but they need to completely mix things up if they expect people to pay for it. There's a whole game world of ideas for HL2 episodes, first order of business should be to stop using Gordon Freeman in these games - Opposing Forces was great because it was an opposite viewpoint (kinda), not saying that's a good idea with HL2, but there's a lot that could be tackled - the little outposts all over the place are a minefield of possibilities.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 19th Sep 2006 23:09
Quote: "HL2, well I kinda got tired of the rigmarole in ep.1 - namely that damned level where you've to escort people back and forth, like 8 times - that's just bull."


I agree with that - it was poor during that section. I don't think anyone still alive in a war torn city after a week couldn't look after themselves - should have just been an all-out gun fight - while they made their way to safety.

Quote: "GTA is interesting because it seems to have ushered in this era of unrestricted gameplay."


I don't think there's ever been such a thing as unrestricted gameplay.

Maybe i've played enough of these type games (GTA1, GTA:SA and Driver) to no longer be interested in driving around a huge city without any purpose, occassionally running people over, slamming into cars (I can do that in Burnout3 with much more excitement)and occassionally punching or shooting people in the street. Until the scope is hugely expanded beyond this - i'm not interested. (I'm actually more interested in their Bully game, I think it may hold clues to the change of direction for the new GTA..)

Quote: "HL2 is mostly common FPS gameplay"


I wish people would buy FPSs like System Shock 2 and Deux Ex more often then this might be different.

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 00:06
They're not FPSs, they're FPRPGs, or FPSRPGs.

Anyway, they're clearly RPGy.

Tinkergirl
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jul 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 00:23
*looks forward to Bioshock*

jinzai
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 04:08 Edited at: 20th Sep 2006 04:11
Perhaps unscripted would have been a better word...or perhaps I could put it like my son's friend..."you don't gotta do no missions, or nothin'...how sweet is that?" But...of course GTA has missions. The only difference is that you can still play the game without doing them. Unrestricted gameplay would really not be a game at all, just a simulation...a really complex simulation. (So processor intensive...that it runs at 1/5 the rate of sidereal time.) Now, I could really have maximized my senior year at that clip.

And Van B...I feel the same way. Medal Of Honor games are like that for me. After we all grew tired of seeing how long we could hold a sniper position...or try to jump the bridge gap with a bus, or fly a tank...we started a new way to play MOH. See if you can get through a MOH mission with only a handgun, for example. HALO/HALO2 using only buttstrokes...is great. Counting oneshot kills is fun, too. HALO can be played a few different ways.

I think that GTA just went a little bit off the path, but it really paid off for them. Now, they are that game "with no missions". I think it is the variety of criminal acts that appeals to most. Personally...I only like the killing. (Oh, and the maiming...don't forget the maiming.)
Bizar Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2005
Location: Bostonland
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 04:17
Yar, I like how Homeworld be seperated into chapters, where objectives change on the fly. 'Tis fun because I don't know what I be jumping into until I already be in it. Missions be good, but chapters be better.

...

Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 05:01
I'm adding Metal Gear Acid for the PSP into the mix. Horrible horrible game. Unfortunatly thats the only game I have for the PSP at the moment.

And while I am at it, I hate games that make you do a find and fetch quest. Like finding all the parts to something retarded and you end up not using it.
dark coder
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 05:55
I would really love to play an open ended game like gta, which had the scope of oblivion, but actually involved skill, in oblivion the ai really annoyed me, on one mission where you had to assasinate all this family, I was doing fine until you had to kill a guard, no matter how many ways i killed them I would apparently get spotted and get a bounty, even if I fired a long range array and immediately cloaked, same problem with gta, you can just snipe a bunch of people from the middle of no where and get police after you, so if they actually made the ai somewhat clever and more realistic then I would love it.

Cause I really like games that involve and reward skill/stealth tactics, games like hl2 which i've completed are fun, but the weapons really suck imo, only like 2 of them are actually 1 hit kills, just gotta find a way to get my gmod sweps working in there and i'm happy .

Hallowed are the ori.
DB newbie
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Nov 2005
Location: um..... i dont remember.
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 06:21
omg... i hate RTS games that have a campain.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/egraphics/75as4.gif" border="0" title="Adopt_one_today_from_pickle-green.com/egraphics!">
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 08:00
Quote: "Now, they are that game "with no missions"."


GTA most certainly has missions, and anyone who has played it would know that.

indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 14:32
I never played shinobi, did that have missions>?

Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 15:24
Quote: "omg... i hate RTS games that have a campain."


I played the Company of Heroes demo, firstly the tutorial, then the skirmish - and then the Campaign - It makes no sense - an RTS where you're not in charge? The Skirmish mode seemed much better - i just hope there are tonnes of levels for it.

Quote: "I'm adding Metal Gear Acid for the PSP into the mix. Horrible horrible game. Unfortunatly thats the only game I have for the PSP at the moment."


I think the PSP will win the "Most expensive doorstop award" this year.

Perhaps GTA needs to drop the missions completely and create a dynamic way of using changing relationships between NPCs to generate the 'tasks' (maybe oblivion does this - i haven't played it). So you have no cut scenes, NPCs just ask you to sort things out and your actions have a kind of butterfly-in-a-forest effect throughout the game. For example: The consequences of a killing you carry out will be down to whether you were seen and whether those characters went to the police or not. Before you know it, you could wake up one morning with the police at your door and realise you should have gone to another NPC to give you a safe haven for a while. But could you have trusted him if you had? - you're not sure of his connections... and so on. That to me would be a sandbox.

You could call that a simulation, but I disagree - if you interact with it with no other purpose than to interact with it, then isn't it a game regardless? A simulation is generally created to train for either using things in the realworld or to determine a realworld outcome.

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 15:39
redmotion your throwing down stuff like i hate this and i think this sucks.
negativity in my world earns you no respect, i know what your trying to say yet it falls short of diatribe. if you included some positive ideas then id say alright i see the point, at the moment tho its just cranky nonsense.

Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 15:43 Edited at: 20th Sep 2006 15:51
Quote: "Before you know it, you could wake up one morning with the police at your door and realise you should have gone to another NPC to give you a safe haven for a while. But could you have trusted him if you had? - you're not sure of his connections... and so on. That to me would be a sandbox."


There are a few problems with that freeform style approach though.

1) There are a LOT of gamers who do not like it. They see games as something they play, from start to end, and complete. Like watching a movie. To have 'alternative' endings, or even sections of an entire game, just because of a decision you made way back when, annoys a lot of people.

Take the game Fahrenheit for example: I loved it, my wife and I played it through to the end. I knew full well that the route we took was only one of several available, and to my annoyance the ending was a bit pants and I'd rather have seen a different ending, but there was no way in hell I was going to go through it again just to see that. I uninstalled it, sold it, and moved onto the next game. I don't think I'm alone in feeling like this. If you've got the time to dedicate to replaying games to see all available options then you're a lucky git

2) If it's not obvious that you COULD have taken another route, by talking to another NPC, then you have no idea WHY something happened the way it did. You just assume that this is how the game plays, and get pissed at it. If you talk to Grunt X and he tells you something that turns out to be a lie and gets you killed, because of his alliance with Grunt Y (that you vaguely remember perhaps being told about after the event), that doesn't make for a 'fun' game. In fact it would make for an extremely frustrating game. If the game *did* let it be known that perhaps this was just one of many routes through, then as a gamer you'd want to research each route and pick the one most likely to allow you to win - I think that is an important point, you expect to be able to win the game somehow. It would take a massive shift in gamer mentality to try a title that you could never actually win, or progress at, or succeed in. Games are about entertainment first-most and foremost.

I'm very open to the idea of new gaming concepts, but I still can't get over the fact that all games have objectives, from GTA to HL2, no matter how they are displayed or dealt to the player, the end result is the same - do something, in some order, to succeed. In this veign, HL2 falls into the exact same boat as GTA, and for that matter Tetris, or Super Mario. It's a fundamental gaming concept, presented differently each time.

HL2 is no genre breaker here, it does *nothing* different to the rest of the pack, if anything it's far more formulaic than even GTA is because it never changes in presentation. That doesn't make it a bad game though, or even close, because it's exciting and enjoyable to experience. But don't think it's something that it isn't. As far as game concepts goes, it's as blue print as they come.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 16:26
Quote: "redmotion your throwing down stuff like i hate this and i think this sucks.
negativity in my world earns you no respect, i know what your trying to say yet it falls short of diatribe. if you included some positive ideas then id say alright i see the point, at the moment tho its just cranky nonsense"


Perhaps I am cranky - but I care about games quite passionately. I care about their future - i've playing them since the 80s. I care about them as an artform (a source of new ideas and experiences) far more than I care about the "hype" (the insessant conforming to existing genres) - and therefore I am full of diatribes. As negativity : positive ideas - they often come from negativity. In fact, I believe many creative leaps come from 'negativity'. (Painting: Impressionism, Architecture: Modernism, Music: the Blues, for example.)

You see something and you rebel against it and something new or at least different comes to mind. Otherwise, you go "uuummm! I really like this game - i wanna do one just like it..."

(Note to oneself: don't mention Half Life 2 again...)

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 17:05
Maybe we expect too much too soon, like gamers have pushed for better visuals the whole time - without stopping to mention the need for diverse gameplay. If AI had developed at the same rate as graphics technology, then we'd all be telling this to our forum assistant bots, who'd do the actual work of posting, and editing out spelling, and stuff, ohh, and grammar too.

We got the graphics, we're getting the physics, but what advances are we seeing in AI? - none!

Seriously, we see as good AI here as we do in most commercial games. Sorry to bring it up again, but Oblivion has aparantly got some killer AI, yeah...

But anyone who's played Oblivion will tell you how rediculous it is sometimes. Personally I think it's modern game programmers and designers - they spend too much time on the wrong aspects. If I shoot someone in the head, the guy standing 10ft away should notice. This is a major gripe of mine, it just seems lazy that they can't bring themselves to think like a normal gamer and consider what is actually important.
Now speak to an oblivion designer, and they'll get all misty eyed and emotional about how an NPC can drink, and live a life, and dislike or like you. Wow, but can it detect when there's an arrow sticking out of it's eye?


I think it's good to vent, Sorry Indi but I'd probably score low in your books too, because I can rant like a crazy person over the slightest annoyance. But this attitude is good, this is all stuff I hate, and it's all stuff I'll avoid in my own projects and ideas. If I can make one aspect better than a commercial game, then that's like gold to me - that's like giving Bill Gates a chinese burn.

I find writing games is less rewarding than most people think, but there's a ton of kudos waiting on little guys like us sticking it to the man (so to speak). I trully have more respect for what people do here than any amount of cool graphics that 50 people can produce together, one guy making a good game, selling it, getting it featured in cool places, that's stuff worth shouting about.

A game made by 50 indi developers, now I'd like to see that - maybe something like GTA, but split the developers up, so 1 team owns vehicle handling, one team owns player control and animation, one team is on level design, etc etc - treating each aspect as a bragging point between teams, so they all try to get the best they can from the engine. A game like that would be well worth checking out, imagine the best features of the best games, but handled with some respect for once. The problem with GTA, is that it's not anything really, it's not driving, it's not a puzzle game, it's not a shoot em up - it's in it's own bracket. As good as GTA is, it's never gonna have better driving than actual driving games, it'll never have the shooting action we see in modern FPS games, it doesn't affect you as much, because all these features are kinda watered down. It's for the best, if GTA was perfect in every aspect, we wouldn't need another game, ever.

Anyhoo, it appears Lego SWII is out on DS, so I might not feel too much like ranting for now, I might have to shut up and just play the darn game .

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
Bizar Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2005
Location: Bostonland
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 17:18
hmm... lego star wars for the DS got a 2.8/10 at IGG... Apparently it was very buggy and rushed...

And I'd love to see better AI, but AI that is actualy used well. I could care less about some game characters life if I'm never going to see them, but I care a lot if I'm playing capture the flag and the enemy had a bunch of preset strategies to chose from baced on my tactics, and can alter a statagy on its own to deal with surprises and can anntisipate what I'm going to do based on what I've already done... Or prehaps a puzzle game that can build puzzle based on how I play the ones it has already made to chalenge me... OOhhh, I should do that if I ever make a BV3...

Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 17:27
Quote: " hmm... lego star wars for the DS got a 2.8/10 at IGG... Apparently it was very buggy and rushed..."


Don't care

Seriously, I'll buy it anyway, because I'm used to bugs, and because not buying a game based on a low score is crazy. I've checked it out and it scored higher in most places, so I'm confident that I'll enjoy it.

Armourines on the PSX got slated, slated to death in fact;
Yet I loved every second of the co-op campaign, think co-op Halo but on the PSX, glad I disregard most online reviews .

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 20th Sep 2006 18:15
its all good reddy, your statements at the start made me assume you were younger then expected.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-17 15:33:31
Your offset time is: 2024-11-17 15:33:31