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FPSC Classic Models and Media / free BananaGun (fpsc ready)

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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 08:35
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Hi Guys, here's my first weapon attempt.

BananaGun v1.0

It's animated, and got a custom sound.
Packaged in the clickteam installer it should be
(fpsc) ready to rock.
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Screwed Over
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 11:16
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screenie plz


The Day will come when humanity ends.
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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 11:34
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Screwed Over
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 12:32
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the guns a bit off angle, but that level looks awesome!


The Day will come when humanity ends.
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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 13:25 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 13:26
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Thanx for your comment, however, the BananaGun is awesome,
did you even try it? Because it works good and moves well,
it's a done deal, ready for Duke Nukem, and about 300k.

The level on the other hand is a W.I.P, it ain't ready to
release by a long shot. Also camera and fan and security guards all provided in model packs,
I can't claim any kudos for it yet.
It's a place where I can find plenty of bananas though.

Peace.
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 15:22
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If this has the banana model in the exe, your in trouble. Your not allowed to give out FPSC models, so if the exe has the model in it, remove it.

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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 16:14
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I'm afraid, Higgins is right; I've removed the download, until you can clarify. Thanks for taking the time to contribute though.

-Keith


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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 16:18
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Everyone here has the banana I don't understand what the issue is. Are you saying we are not allowed by licence to modify the default content? I was only following the advice of the manual and it said best to clone weapons to learn how stuff works so I cloned the banana into a gun. Where does it say this is illegal?
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 16:21
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Everyone does NOT have the model; it is not required that you own FPSC in order to download media from these forums. Therefore you just put up a model that anyone could download; thereby breaching your license agreement with TGC.

-Keith


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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 16:45
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Where exactly can I read about this? Like if you make a game
with FPSC the entire modified contents are available for anyone
who either buys or downloads the game including the banana gun
I made, what's the problem, I see the bananagun as no different from someone offering an alternative skin for a character,
the modified content allows variety for people interested in making games which are going to be public anyway at some point.
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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 16:58 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 17:00
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This is on the writing on the main front page of the FPSC website.

To get you started we've supplied two theme packs covering popular FPS genres: Sci-fi and World War 2

From high-tech labs and ammo holds to gritty caves and classic German manor houses

- we've included all you need. Doors, corridors, gantries, ladders, lifts, room segments, ceilings, furniture, objects,
ammo crates and more. Infact there are over 500 different 3D entities and over 300 building segments.

If that isn't enough you can easily customise the included files or import your own media, it's all covered in the 89 page manual.

The above underlined statement indicates the nature and intent
of the creators of the software, in my opinion. IE, it's a banana
make it happen. Am I missing something?
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 17:44
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Where does it say anywhere that you may freely re-distribute any of the media included in FPSC? People putting up retextures can do so, because it involves nothing from TGC's product (except the UV Map, which is useless without the model it goes to).

-Keith


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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:06 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 18:34
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Isn't that exactly what you do when you release a game with this engine? And as far as freely redistribute goes.....
Your kidding right? I'm offering a superior banana for other enthusiasts to ponder over. Without the game engine the banana does nothing. I animated a static element, and offered that back as a bananagun.

I have written to The GameCreators. The licence page is quite clear
that there's no roadblocks to modding with this engine.
http://www.fpscreator.com/license.html

In contrast to my upgraded banana, there are half life 2 weapons
like the crobar, and it's allowed to be downloaded.

To me this censorship reaks of double standards and hipocracy,
as well as going against the natural intent of the engine and it's creators. I do not agree with what you have done to my file at all.

If you feel you have any true legal right to censor my creative efforts with the BananaGun, and stop me offering it here, then do it again, because I just don't believe what you say at all to be true or fair. Prove me wrong, show me licencing that stops me from
offering the BananaGun.... Again.

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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:30
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So I downloaded it, and installed it. Great. Again, thanks for taking the time to contribute.

Now, what I don't appreciate is the attitude you have exhibited. Whether I have any legal right to "censor" you is irrelevant; these are privatly run forums. Since your into "legalities" however, here's a few excerpts from the A.U.P. that you agreed to in order to participate in these forums:

3.17 Our forums are moderated by both TGC employees and trusted non-paid members of the public who volunteer their services and time for the benefit of the community. By using our forums you automatically agree that they cannot be held personally responsible for any actions arising from these forums. You agree that moderators shall, at their discretion, determine what constitutes a violation of theses terms, along with generally accepted nettiqute standards, and can take action against those who voilate these rules.

3.15 Being a customer of The Game Creators gives no right to being allowed access to our forum.

5.3 If you wish to post screen shots / files that are of work controlled under copyright and/or distribution restrictions then you must obtain permission from us before doing so, otherwise you forfeit this right. The content of all web sites, unless stated otherwise, is (C) Copyright The Game Creators Ltd, all rights reserved.

Originally I hadn't noticed that you put it into an installer, otherwise I might have reconsidered.

As far as the Half-Life Crowbar goes, point me to the threads containing Valve media as well as the license that allows, or doesn't allow posting of the 3rd party media.

-Keith


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stormboy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:47
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My attitude was expressed most succinctly with my first post,
and my first contribution to this community apart from words,
after three days of making the BananaGun act like a doom weapon.

I am extremely happy that you actually downloaded it,
and obviously it works yes. Thanx for that.
Regarding attitude, I'm a free man and I protect
my creative prodgeny it's only natural when one has paid the piper.


Peace out, and have a nice weekend.
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:51
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Quote: "Regarding attitude, I'm a free man and I protect
my creative prodgeny it's only natural when one has paid the piper."

Fair enough.


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Hello World
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:56
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very nice banana greanade launcher
good work,nice sounds
worth a download

The Ossis are coming back!!!
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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 04:22
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Now hold on...

dude, Keith is right--not EVERYONE that comes onto these forums has FPSC. Some of us, like myself, visit the boards for some time before we actually make a purchase. So freely distributing something that's not free is a clear violation.

You can use all the legal mumbo-jumbo you like, but at the end of the day, two things need to be remembered.

1) Contrary to what you may think, freedom of speech is NOT always protected. Keep in mind, TGC is based in England. I don't think they have a Bill of Rights over there.
2) TGC would likely win any legal dispute based on the license in question. It's one thing to mod the engine or models; it's quite another to distribute them to people who might not have paid for the rights to them.

Formerly JMC...
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KeithC
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 05:06
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The Banana is in an installer; unless someone can take out the model without having FPSC installed, it should be alright to post. However, if the model and texture can be gleaned from the download, then we have a problem.

If I remember right, England doesn't have a consolidated Bill of Rights like the U.S. does; it's spread out over many many tomes. I knew I should have paid more attention in my International Relations class. Either way, these are privately run forums; freedom of speech does not neccesarily apply (although common decency does).

I'll attempt to extract the model later; otherwise this would be something for Rich to decide.

However, let's not look past the fact that this member donated their time and energy to create something free for the community.

-Keith


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stormboy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 05:41 Edited at: 30th Sep 2006 05:46
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Hello World, your feedback was appreciated, cheers.

TheGameCreators were extremely fast to email me a reply regarding
the core issue involved here, you can read it below.

My info Request.
I request clarifaction and further information about the licencing. I have looked through the files
and don't see anything which says making an entity that is provide in the FPSC system become an animated gun is illegal.

FPSC Reply.
Quote: "It's not. You are free to change the media, create your own entities, animate static objects,
etc etc. Eat your heart out, do whatever you want with it.
The issue, and the ONLY issue here, is then distributing that work.
If effectively you're putting up for a download one of our models,
then that is an issue actually - because no-one has to own FPS Creator to download it.

If you'd done a re-texture job, then you could post the new texture fine.
If you'd scripted an existing entity, you could post the script.
If you'd used your own banana model, again no problem at all.

As you had wrapped your banana gun with an installer,
the moderator in question agreed that protected it enough from 'non FPSC owners'
and allowed your second download to stay on the forum - and it's still there right now.
If you'd mentioned this in the first instance it might have saved some hassle on both sides!
But such is life.

In short, feel free to carry on experimenting with our media -
but do appreciate that uploading what is effectively our models, for a free download,
is frowned upon without due care taken.
I.e. wrap any future mods in an installer again,
and ensure they can only install into an existing FPS Creator install. "


__________________________

So, The BananaGun is all sweet! The working binoculars
will also be so, as will be any modified wall segments.
Everything / all the gameplay /in the gameworld hinges around
polygons to which the licence to use and distribute is
pre-paid by the owner/licencee of the software.
Without this fact there could be no exchange of media
made using the software between users or users and the general public. The entire nature of FPSC protects
our collective interests and natural aspiration to share the outcomes of our gamemaking efforts, legally.

As far as me being somehow into legalities, it's like this,
The product was sold to me based on certain promises
some concerning licencing and distribution, of works created.

It's in fact important for everyone that
my lowly distributable offering is not illegal, if it was, then the
entire promise of the software is dispelled at once and the
ramifications would be draconian to say the least.

Peace
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stormboy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 05:58 Edited at: 30th Sep 2006 06:03
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KeithC, regarding extraction from my file named bananagun.exe,
in any way other than by installing the bananagun.exe into your
existing FPSC file structure, I consider illegal. Please desist.

I do not support such an invasion of my compiled content. I will
modify the exe to include a more explicit licence regarding
such matters later today.

Equally, I ask you to test your extraction techniques on any number of games uploaded
to the showcase forum using the Clickteam installer.
You will find that they are no different in nature
at all to my BananaGun compiled archive.

Ie, if you want access to the models provided
in the compiled games made with FPSC,
1/ just install the game,
2/ look through the directories
and find all the models you want.
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KeithC
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 06:02
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Well, I'm glad they looked at this thread; since you don't appear to mention that you were re-distributing it to the general public.

Quote: "It's in fact important for everyone that
my lowly distributable offering is not illegal, if it was, then the
entire promise of the software is dispelled at once and the
ramifications would be draconian to say the least."

Is that supposed to be some kind of threat?

Quote: "As far as me being somehow into legalities, it's like this,
The product was sold to me based on certain promises
some concerning licencing and distribution, of works created."

Show me where in the license it gives you the authority to re-distribute FPSC media to the general public.

-Keith


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KeithC
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 06:04
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Quote: "KeithC, regarding extraction from my file named bananagun.exe,
in any way other than by installing the bananagun.exe into your
existing FPSC file structure I consider illegal."

It doesn't matter if you consider it illegal.

Quote: "I do not support such an invasion of my compiled content. I will
modify the exe to include a more explicit licence regarding
such matters later today."

Do whatever makes you feel good.


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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 06:06
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Why do you think stuff like FPSPack has become so popular lately?!

Formerly JMC...
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Airslide
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 06:17
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Quote: "Why do you think stuff like FPSPack has become so popular lately?!"


It's been popular for quite awhile, actually...

My Apps:
Decal Maker
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butyouman
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 01:52
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Rofl a banana that different but kinda cool i like the idea of an expolding banana it is kindo of like [Postal 2 share the pain]'s lucky 8 pool baall that explodes.

I like cereal
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s4real
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 03:53 Edited at: 1st Oct 2006 04:16
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@KeithC : This is so easy to take this file without having fpsc.

Install or not you can pick where you want it to be install so this can be changed to anywhere on your computer.(no fpsc needed.)
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KeithC
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 04:22
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That's what I figured; however Stormboy has a point. Any one of the demo that is just packed up in an .EXE created by FPSC can be 'gleaned' of it's contents; this includes many of the demos of people's games floating around. So until TGC changes something one way or another, the banana can stay as it is.

-Keith


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s4real
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 04:45 Edited at: 1st Oct 2006 04:50
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@Stormboy : Nice work on the weapon, this could of easy been sorted by not including the model and just teling people to place the .x models in to your folder with instruction on how to do this.
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stormboy
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 07:04 Edited at: 1st Oct 2006 07:08
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Ok everyone thanx very much for your comments
and advice.

butyouman, s4real, and Hello World, I really
am glad you liked the BananaGun, it
made my day getting your feedback.

I took the advice and got FPSpack as suggested by Airslide
but it doesn't really deal with the issues concerning
something like BananaGun as a download.

KeithC, I've read all the forums and digested that there are definately issues that may have caused you to
take the action you did and want to say that
I really am not trying to rock the boat,
please realize that I was only trying to do something to
show I was not just going to ask dumb questions,
but I intend to contribute something back as well,
that's why I even offered the gun
in the first place.

Again KeithC you have found the real issue, that is,
the engine is designed in an open way, so quite legally
one could stick every single model in a single level,
and upload it to ebay sell it for 2 cents,
and every single game asset is only a
click away from public access.

FPSC compiler should protect the files on compilation
in the future, and regarding the present, I reckon
if the forums allowed only registered users
to access the downloads, this would help the situation
somewhat? Non owners could peruse the forums and
so on, but only registered owners of the game
could get to download files such as the BananaGun.
Wouldn't that help?

cheers.
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Spudling
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 12:13
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Well seriously i think its excellent my self even if texture is ripped off somewhere that is not right.

It is just one of a kind really like those boxs Xplosive made or what ever his name is but it is just one of a kind really.

Was Hi! but Hi! Was gettin a little iritating
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