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FPSC Classic Models and Media / [LOCKED] animating FPSC ready ak47 W.I.P

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=adamW=
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 09:55 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2006 09:55
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its going to be animated and fpsc ready
what do you think of it?


-adam

Gamer currenly playing world of warcraft
characters:=nightelf warrior level 34=
=human paladin lvl 58=

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 09:59
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looks kind of bulky in the middle, and the hands look like red indian hands

_Ken sent me
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Butter fingers
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Location: Mecca
Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 12:00
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uh adam. how many fingers do YOU have?

this guy has 6 fingers on his trigger hand, and the ability to bend his thumb around the grip!

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JohannesM
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Location: Espoo, Finland
Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 16:16
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The hands look cartoony, id say just forget the hands , otherwise its superb.


www.mortarstudios.tk and www.freewebs.com/supahsfpscstuff
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 17:53 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2006 18:36
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Why do people lie? why do you make people happy?

This AK [mod edit]

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Evil Star
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Location: England, Colchester
Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 18:38
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Higgins,that comment wasn't very nice, ok the model isn't that great I agree but come on, at least he's trying and doing something for the community without demanding money for his work.

Adam, seriously lose the hands, they aren't really needed or that good i'm afraid.


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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 18:43 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2006 18:45
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Quote: "Why do people lie? why do you make people happy? "


The same reason we do it for you. To encourage and motivate.

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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FredP
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 19:06
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Lose the hands and go from there.
It looks better than some guns I've seen.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 19:37
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I am going to have to agree with Higgins on this model. To often are people told that they did a good job when in actuality they did not. I know we all started from somewhere but should we set a sub par standard? I think that is one of the reasons we as a community are thought of as simple kids, even though a few of us are adults. Telling people the truth is probably the best thing you can do to stimulate growth. I said my peace.


RF
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xplosys
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 20:38
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As adults, we understand what is good work and what is not. We don't need someone to define it for us, just as we don't need someone to tell us how we should respond. If we choose to encourage someone with good words, why would that offend someone else?

If you think something is bad, why not tell that person why it is bad?

Quote: "This AK [mod edit]
"


Does this help anyone? Is this better than saying something constructive or nice?

Quote: "Telling people the truth is probably the best thing you can do to stimulate growth."


I agree. Was what Higgins said the truth? Not to me and probably not to most people here. It's just rude and childish. Others before Higgins told adamW what they thought was wrong with it without being jerks. I don't think it's too much to ask to be civil and act your age.

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 20:50
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I'm agree bro. I think that if someone makes a basic model, and it isn't great, then the comments should reflect that.

"its [mod edit]"

doesn't help, because it doesn't encourage the person to try harder, it just discourages them

"Wow that's wicked"

doesn't help either because it makes the person think they're better than they are.

I think that if we want to be considered adults then we've gotta start offering constructive criticism. Ok, so the ak isn't great but adam can look at Fletcher's models and see that, what he needs is technical pointers to help him improve to Fletcher's level. None of us are so good at modelling that we can point the finger and say someone elso is [mod edit], because stick any member of this forum next to a modeller from valve or EA, and even the Fletchers and Locrians of this forum would look like noobs.

butters

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FredP
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 21:19
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You'll notice I didn't lie here.
I have done it before to encourage people.
I don't care who you are when you start modeling the models look like crap and weapons can be among the most difficult thing to model.
The hands are bad.That has been brought up before.
The model is not great but I have seen worse.I have made worse.
Quote: "This AK [mod edit]"

First of all if something is not up to your standards feel free to say so.
Secondly,please find a way to do so that falls within the AUP.
Third,remember that you,as well as the rest of us,have made a crappy model or two in your day.
Quote: " think that if we want to be considered adults then we've gotta start offering constructive criticism. Ok, so the ak isn't great but adam can look at Fletcher's models and see that, what he needs is technical pointers to help him improve to Fletcher's level. None of us are so good at modelling that we can point the finger and say someone elso is [mod edit], because stick any member of this forum next to a modeller from valve or EA, and even the Fletchers and Locrians of this forum would look like noobs"

I couldn't have said it better myself.
If you don't like something say so.
Saying it sucks and not bothering to say why you think it sucks doesn't work.
If someone thinks something I do sucks I at least want to know why.
And the reason we are a support community is because all of us that are willing to put in the effort want to make a good game and we should all help one another when we can.
If you want to make a game that sucks or you don't want to be part of the community please go elsewhere so I can spend my time on things that matter to the community.
This is not directed at any specific person.There are several of "this sucks" posters around.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Snowblind 44
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 22:20 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2006 22:21
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Very good model.......one piece of advice though, work on your hands,they are a bit too stringy-looking and humans really can't put their fingers on a weapon like that, when you move the top joint,it also moves the bottom joint on your finger.So the finger should be curved around the side of the trigger, not wrapped around at a right angle.

Must_Have_High_quality_Guns_With_Hands.
Wait. COREPAK 2 is here! My wait is over!
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 22:28
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While that is all true, and I do agree with Higgins, it could have been said in a less confrontational way. But then again I just got done dealing with someone on my messenger from these forums that would only listen to the extreme criticism. The reason I said what I said is because people seem to be babying people on these forums. And it's getting a bit old.

RF
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 22:32
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the texture appears to be a bit sloppy or not very straight, this could be a uv error, but in any case, you might want to work on a grid for something like weapons where all parts are straight/non-deformaing objects etc.

as for the hands, keep a template, dont attempt to recreate something that needs to be identical to the other one, it seems you have just modelled onto the gun, instead, model the hand in a relaxed position and rig with some bones (providing your modeling software has the capability)

you can then copy all this, for the other hand.

nice start, keep it up


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 22:50
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Why is it, when you get slapped, the mod who does it, hides?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 23:49 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 02:02
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(Semi off-topic) I know I'm pretty new to these forums but I thought I'd chime in anyways. Artists are fickle beings. Some respond best to negative critisism and some respond best to positive. From other threads I've seen, I gather that Adam is very young and using software that is way over his head. I'd much rather that he spent his spare time genuinely learning how to model then wasting it doing whatever else kids his age do. That said, I'm going to make some (hopefully) helpful observations in a perhaps futile effort to improve his skills. It really depends on if he actually wants to improve or not.

Observations:
1. Adam, you're still making traced and extruded models. Stop it. You've gotten better at hiding that fact by rendering from the side and using a black background. That doesn't mean you've gotten any better, just that you're more of a hack now.

2. If you want to improve your skills, you actually need to take something to satisfactory completion. If someone says your work sucks, don't just give up and start on something new. Instead, work to make it better. Work to make something you can show on a public forum and be proud of. Modeling is like anything in life, if you do not commit to it, you will fail. Beyond the first one or two guns I saw you post when I joined, I have yet to see any of your last few actually in FPSC. Why is that? You're sword was the closest thing you've posted to an acceptable model. I think it was the best work you've done so far but I don't remember ever seeing it completed. Why did you move on before finishing it?

3. You are biting off more than you can chew. At your skill level, you should be making crates, appliances and other simple objects that can be made from primitive objects. If you want to make more complex things like guns, that's fine. Just expect to get flamed if you post them in a public forum. This isn't your mom's refrigerator.

(on topic)

Suggestions:

1. Lose the hands. You have ALOT to learn about human physiology before you should be attempting anything like that. Focus on what is reasonable to accomplish.

2. Stop tracing and extruding. In fact, don't even bring an image into Max. All you are doing by mapping your model is what we in the industry call "polishing a turd".

3. Gather good reference photos. Side-only pictures suck for making good weapons. You need a combination of side and angled pictures to really know what a gun is shaped like. Do not model based on what you see in a video game or someone elses work. Always look to the original or else you will be compounding the mistakes of others.

4. Once you have collected your photo reference, begin to break-down what you see into primitive objects; primarily cylinders and rectangles. Sketch it out on paper as you do this if it helps. Once you begin to get a feel for what you are about to model, then and only then launch your modeling application.

5. In your modeling software, begin by creating the primitive shapes you have mentally broken the AK into. Arrange them in 3D space, relative to each other untill you have a decent feel for the basic shape. Do not worry about the pieces touching or gaps in your primitive composition. At this stage you should focus on porportions and spacial relationships. In this phase, you can bring in a side-on image for the background or to map on a poly (not the gun!) just to help you get the size of your primitives correct. Be sure to check your perspective view-ports often and view your work often from the angle it will be seen in the game.

6. Once you are satisfied to the point where you can use your imagination to fill in the gaps where there is no geometry, then you can begin to attatch the primitives together and build polygons to stitch together your primitives. Be sure to delete unused polygons as you go. Continue to refine the model, gather more reference if you need to and with time and hard work you can make something that looks nice.

7. Once you have something that looks decent, then you can begin UV mapping. Start out by applying a simple color to the entire thing. Then export it! Look at it in FPSC and see where you need to make improovements in the model. Repeat the tweaking/exporting process untill you are reasonably happy with what you see. Then you can begin UV mapping for real, animating, etc.

Eventually, your skills will improve if you work at it. Once your basic skills are up to par, then you can begin working on aspects such as model realism, learn some firearms anatomy, etc.

Sorry this was so long but I hope it was helpful.
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Opposing force
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 23:52
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The arms look very weird. The right arm is too small and the fingers are very long. The left hand as an abnormal amount of fingers. The gun needs a lot of worker also.

Sign up on this forum, please...
http://teammegabasic.proboards59.com
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 23:54
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Quote: "uh adam. how many fingers do YOU have?

this guy has 6 fingers on his trigger hand, and the ability to bend his thumb around the grip!
"



Sorry guys for the qoute but I was browsing this thread again and this cracked me up.. Hi my names Bob and I can count to potato!!!!

RF
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FredP
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 00:03
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I slapped you this time.
And you might notice I am not hiding.
I have posted twice in this thread.
I just figured you were big enough to know that you were going to get slapped when you posted like that so I didn't whine about it.
For the record:
1. This is the first time that I have taken any action against you.
I let the other mods do that but I guess this time it is my turn.
2. We mods do not hide.We may choose not to tell you something but we do not hide.
Nobody would have known you got slapped if you hadn't posted anything about it.
I don't follow your understanding sometimes.
You swear or post inappropriately KNOWING what is going to happen and you do it anyways.
Instead of getting slapped or banned take a minute and think.
There is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion as long as it falls within the AUP and takes other people's feelings into consideration.
You were new at some point and you have been bad at something in your life (nobody is good at everything).
Try to think about how you would feel if you were on the recieving of it.
And the poor guy is attempting to make his own instead of harrassing someone else to do it.
We have to try to to tell someone something is great when it is not but at the same time we don't want to crush or frighten away newcomers from trying.
And remember most of our forum members are not adults yet.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Locrian
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 01:20
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I'm not even going to comment really on the item. I've lost my taste for trying to be nurturing.

@Errant AI
Great post. But you may wanna copy that to notepad cause every week, if you continue this train of being helpful that is,you'll be posting that same post to like 4 new members a week. After a wile you loose the taste for being so helpful. As much as I like FPSC for what it is this forum doesn't have the sophistication of say the Zbrush forums or CGSociety.

I realize it's harsh but these useless models, or people posting figures they made in "Make Human", just end up being a waste of time. They don't listen. They don't take the time to read the forums to see how far you can push FPSC. They're for the most part not going to be real contributors to the forum anyways. After a couple of months when things aren't as easy as they thought, we wont hear from them again. Around here, when members see someones really trying, that's when the post get a little looser and more helpful. You yourself comment about him never finishing anything. That's the same stuff everyone looks at.

Sometimes it's just easier to say it dose donkey shows in South America for a dollar.
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 01:37 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 01:37
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My advice to adam is to take a bit more time and create a few more models, make a few friends and then show your models to these new friends off site and ask thier opinions of them, tweak them and then post them for the public to see. I know this sounds long winded but it can prove to be a wise decision in the long run. Keep at it though, you will only improve with practice. The problem with the negative posts is due to the large selection of sub standard models being showcased as if they were Da Vinci's vitruvian Man or his study of gradiations of shadows. I think alot of the problem would be diminished if these threads were titled properly. instead of "my new model pack" or "animating FPSC ready ak47 W.I.P" The last one is the reason why you do not use translators to write in english. IF you have a model that you created try using titles like "Ak47 model, feedback wanted" or somethign to that effect. On that note I am going to stop ranting I guess.

RF
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 01:47 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 01:53
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Errant.

I thought your post was wicked mate, but Locrian is right, copy and paste that away into a notepad...
Your advice was really excellent. Perhaps someone should paste the "basics of modelling a weapon" bit into a sticky somewhere.
..this bit made me laugh though:

Quote: "Some respond best to negative critisism and some respond best to negative"


so like no-one gets any positive?!

Anyhoo, time to chip in my bit.

This craze for weapon modelling from a trace is starting to REALLY get on my [edit]. I taught myself how to model over the last year and I never traced a thing. I didn't even know you could! And some of my first stuff looks Rubbish (some of my current stuff does too) but at least I always did it propperly. And I'm still going back and improving stuff I did before.

Therefore it annoys the pants off me that really relevant threads like Loc and RF's modelling duel, Jon Fletchers Core pak have to battle to stay on the front page, because their Swamped by pointless (answered in the manual) questions and 30minute model jobs.

I mean does anyone really want to see a post for giant multicoloured cylinder primitave masquerading as a pen? God no.

And hey, did anyone realise Errant made a Propper working range finder for a grenade launcher? No, it got like 6 posts and disapeared off into oblivion. That was a huge discovery! Think of how that effect gameplay, and it got bumped off by trash like
"Heres my new model of a Man" (which looks more like a mutilated horse)
or
"CHK out MY WIKID Gun MODLE" (Which is like a cylinder and 2 cubes rendered green)

I mean, after a while you start to wonder about the point of posting.
If you have something free to give away, BAM! 100000 views, 3 posts (1 says thankyou, 2 are complaining it didn't work, even though you wrote a manual).
If you only have an amazing model to show, but not give away, forget it, 10000 views, 1 post.


I don't think that this forum will ever change. There will always be this...smaller of older members who want to do something decent, and put time into it. devote themselves to learning an engine, inside and out...
And there are those who want a nice GUI that they can drop stuff on, and hope they'll make HL3.
And because of these two groups (of which the latter is far bigger), there will always be this tension.

Not to say people don't change. I mean, jeez, has anyone seen how good stamina has got at modelling? That guy has really put some time in, and look how respected he is now.

Ah, what ever, this thread is WILDLY off topic by now, which I think violates the AUP, so I'm sorry about that.

butters

PS, for an example of how the less nerdy members annoy the uber geeks, here's someones post from my web forum...

Quote: "Well what do you think of a place you enter and when your in the core bad things happen like fire and stuff and this toxic waste or something else comes and you have to go to a point and escape."


yeah....

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Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 01:59 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 02:10
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Locrian, I hear ya on the copy/paste thing. I guess I'm getting it out of my system. The helpfulness that is.

I'm willing to try to help people about once but I'm not the type that enjoys repeating myself. If I've allready said something once, I'll be willing to post a link to what I said before but that's about it. I guess I felt compelled because this is the only user I can honestly say hasn't improved with time and I felt it was because he was doing something fundamentally wrong to the point of going backwards. It's hard to watch someone drown. Sometimes.

I also posted because I thought it might be helpful to others than the OP. It's not the way I personally model but it was the best I could come up to help those at the most basic skill level. The gaming industry is filled with hacks. It benifits myself as someone who has had to supervise other artists and will likely have to doso in the future as well as the industry as a whole to be reasonabily helpful to those that honestly want to learn about making game art.

As low-brow as it may be, I actually enjoy these forums and think that FPSC is a fantastic opportunity for those interested in indie gamemaking. Nomatter where you are, your engine will have limits. It's also great because of the freedom. People who think that being pro means getting to make the game you've allways wanted to couldn't be more wrong. It simply doesn't work like that. As for the high-end forums, I don't visit them. Discussion of Film and FMV quality modeling and rendering software has zero practical use to me.

edit: oops- good catch Butters! ..And thanks for pimping the reticle lol!
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Locrian
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 02:22
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I know this went way off topic but since it's lockbait anyways, I had to laugh at Butter's comment: this line here.
Quote: "I don't think that this forum will ever change. There will always be this...smaller of older members who want to do something decent, and put time into it. devote themselves to learning an engine, inside and out...
And there are those who want a nice GUI that they can drop stuff on, and hope they'll make HL3.
And because of these two groups (of which the latter is far bigger), there will always be this tension."


All I can picture is like Errants the new pretty girl at school in some cheesy movie, and the group of chearleaders is filling him in on how he needs to pick a clique.........*dose a valley girl imitation* "Those guys are like such losers....I mean be for real"

I wanna be Becky the brooding, sarcastic cheerleader...I called it..
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s4real
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 02:25
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Butter fingers you made some good points there and so did locrian, to many good stuff is being pushed to the bottom of the pile with no thanks.
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