Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / [LOCKED] [Flamebait] Habeus Corpus

Author
Message
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 09:29
Link
This was news to me (im slow on current events), but apparently Bush now has authority to remove Habeus Corpus. Congress passed the bill last month giving him that power. So if I understand this correctly, if I were to go to jail I wouldn't be allowed a trial or even know what I'm imprisoned for?

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olbermann-HabeusCorpus.mov

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
The crazy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Jan 2005
Location: Behind you
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 10:43
Link
I seem to recall another president having that power at one time. I forget though... anyone know who? (this is gonna bug me )

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 11:03
Link
so the bill of rights is on its way out.
hmm, smells like a dictatorship in the making

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 12:08
Link
Quote: "smells like a dictatorship in the making"


We've been going down that road for some time now. Having the longest running democracy does seem to indicate that it is time for it to consume itself like all the others.

Also ... why isn't this locked?

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Philip
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 14:48
Link
Because its a thread about habeus corpus and the rights of man, not a thread about politics.

Incidentally, America does not have the longest running democracy. That'd be England in the modern era and either the Roman Republic or Athens in the ancient era. Note, though, that definitions of democracy vary over time.

In England Habeus Corpus has been suspended from time to time during wars. A good example was Pitt's suspension of it during parts of the Napoleonic wars.

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
"I highly recommend Philip" (Philip)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 16:13
Link
When they come for me, because I was "deemed" an "enemy combatant" without trial or recourse, I will be invoking my second ammendment rights, in grand fashion.

Whether or not you think 9/11 was "made to happen", "allowed to happen", or was a random fluke, one thing you can't deny is it has been used for nothing but to strip you of your rights and your freedoms, in the name of "fighting terror". Simply read both Patriot Acts, and the recent laws passing thru congress, you'll find in the hidden sub-sections how ANY CITIZEN can be deemed the "enemy combatant" that the rest of the texts discuss openly, and try to hide behind a false guise of "foriegn" and "terrorist" etc.
If you look back on the history of the US, you'll see that 9/11 is merely a stepping stone in an overall pattern, but its an important one, it was the beginning of the end-game. Look at the unconstitutional laws being passed, look at the FEMA camps being prepared, look at the press for an NAU (North American Union) that erases the borders between US and Canada, and US and Mexico. Look at the dumbing-down and the drugging-up of the population. Look at the assault on the middle class. Do you know the National ID card was forced and passed thru the senate via an Iraq War funding appropriations bill about a year ago, and that it takes effect on May 1, 2008. "And ver are your papers?" That date is quite telling, assuming you have studied the Illuminati control over this country via fractional reserve banking (ie Federal Reserve, which is a private bank, not a gov institution), the inception of the Bavarian/Germanic Illuminati in the US was on May 1, 1776. Go closely study the back of a US 1 dollar bill. Many Illuminati symbols....

but I'll digress. too much to go into here, and I am off track.

I urge all americans to go do their homework. I urge people from everywhere to go do their homework, this is happening in your countries as well.

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Cash Curtis II
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 16:31
Link
I have faith in the Supreme Court They aren't bound by politics.


Come see the WIP!
Back to top
Profile PM
Hawkeye
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 17:22 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 17:22
Link
Meh, this is nothing new...

Someday I'm leaving this place and head off to England where all the fun really is


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 17:33
Link
Quote: "Also ... why isn't this locked?"


It will be as soon as someone replies to CR. For some reason, mods making conspiracy theory anti-government posts (and sigs) is perfectly acceptable. Pointing that out will make another mod lock the post. Then CR will use his mod rights to get the last word. Nice, eh?

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 17:55 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 18:02
Link
Quote: "It will be as soon as someone replies to CR. For some reason, mods making conspiracy theory anti-government posts (and sigs) is perfectly acceptable. Pointing that out will make another mod lock the post. Then CR will use his mod rights to get the last word. Nice, eh?
"


Pretty much, yeah.

I'll take the bait and reply to CR to lock the thread:

CattleRustler eats kittens!

But seriously, CR urges Americans to do their homework and learn about their country...and that's true. What he's not urging them to do is to learn about other countries apart from their own. You'll never understand the motives of the United States untill you know all about the situations of the countries they're involved with, the things they aimed to acomplish, and the current affairs of their allies.

Simply saying

"i dunt think they shuld hav, like, gone into Irak...lawl"

isn't enough.

Cat lock on.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 18:35
Link
@Wolf, right on cue, as per usual. You've tried that same pathetic logic countless times, it has never worked because it is false. If you have a complaint that I am somehow mysteriously abusing modship please take it up with Richard Davey and have me demodded and banned. Until then...

Quote: "But seriously, CR urges Americans to do their homework and learn about their country...and that's true. What he's not urging them to do is to learn about other countries apart from their own. You'll never understand the motives of the United States untill you know all about the situations of the countries they're involved with, the things they aimed to acomplish, and the current affairs of their allies."

If you take my sentence at face value then you might have a point. "Doing your homework" simply means learn what your country is up to, and yes, that INCLUDES its foreign pollicies and its interactions, both covert and overt, with other countries. Your words imply the obvious, yet you try to make it somehow that what I say is somehow misleading or not doing everyone justice. I am misunderstanding you? I think you are fishing deeply to try and paint a bad picture with a broad stroke. Quite ironic coming from someone who acts as if he knows everything, always, yet barely ever has anything insightful to say to anyone, regarding anything. It is quite easy to sit around and wait for things to criticize, point fingers, pass judgements - it absolves you from deeper thought, or blame, or praise. I'd rather stand up and be heard, and be wrong, than to stand for nothing at all.

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 18:52 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 18:59
Link
Yes, yes, you've already called me a know-it-all on dozens of occasions. Anything new to say?

Shouldn't this be getting locked now?

To put it bluntly, I think there's zero point in debating with someone who is already convinced his own country bombed it's citizens. That simply doesn't register with me, which really makes everything you say sound laughable. Just like you, I'm also expressing my opinion. But I guess according to your rules, a 17 year old's opinion doesn't count compared to a 40 year old?

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:01
Link
Quote: "@Wolf, right on cue, as per usual. You've tried that same pathetic logic countless times, it has never worked because it is false. If you have a complaint that I am somehow mysteriously abusing modship please take it up with Richard Davey and have me demodded and banned. Until then..."


I've only ONCE ever said anything to you before. I would just like it explained to me how what your statements and your sig is NOT against the AUP. You pointed out in our last (any only) brief discussion that there was a topic in regards to your sig. I didn't take part in that, nor have I read it. Point me to it so I can be enlightened as to how it's OK.

Quote: "I'd rather stand up and be heard, and be wrong, than to stand for nothing at all."

That is just great. Good for you. Just don't do it here because it is against the AUP. Again, explain to me how it isn't and I'll leave you alone. Until then, I see no reason why a mod has ANY RIGHT to break the rules that he is supposed to enforce.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:04
Link
Quote: "Shouldn't this be getting locked now?"

That statement, coupled with your lack of reply to what I asked you, only further proves my point regarding you and your motives.
Thanks.

To answer your question, if the thread wasnt locked after the original post, which could be construed as "political", then it should be allowed to continue imho.

but w/e

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:13
Link
@ wolf, I recall 2 times (possibly more) that we have had this discussion. If I am thinking of someone else and have the specific "count" wrong then I apologize. Maybe I am associating your nick with these conversations, because it always seems to follow that once I post, there you are, calling for my downfall.

Quote: "Just don't do it here because it is against the AUP. Again, explain to me how it isn't and I'll leave you alone. Until then, I see no reason why a mod has ANY RIGHT to break the rules that he is supposed to enforce"

Please site the rule, then site my statements (in context) that break that rule...

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Hawkeye
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:18 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 19:18
Link
I generally try to stay neutral in cat fights like this, but I'm with CR on this one.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Kentaree
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:27
Link
I'd like to quote this section from the AUP saying:

Quote: "4.2 We will cancel/remove accounts at our discretion only. Do not threaten us with "legal action" against someone harassing you on the forum. The forums are public places of debate, if you do not like someones message then ignore it. We will not support any legal activity or claims unless specifically directed to us by a solicitor / law firm or law enforcement agency. We and we alone decide if a forum post violates our terms and conditions and it is left up to us if we should remove such a post. The majority of the time we will respect your wishes, but we and we alone make the final decision and there is no appeal process."


Specifically

Quote: "We and we alone decide if a forum post violates our terms and conditions and it is left up to us if we should remove such a post."


So I have to agree with CR

Nephin Games
Devhat Developer Network and IRC Channel
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:28 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 19:31
Link
Quote: "@ wolf, I recall 2 times (possibly more) that we have had this discussion. If I am thinking of someone else and have the specific "count" wrong then I apologize. Maybe I am associating your nick with these conversations, because it always seems to follow that once I post, there you are, calling for my downfall. "


Only once from me my man. I never even noticed your sig until that last conversation that we had.
The post got locked last time, and I couldn't respond to you. I even looked for an e-mail address so I could contact you personaly, but didn't find one.
I don't want you to be banned, de-modded, or anything else. What I said may have come across that way, but that really isn't what I meant. I couldn't respond to tell you otherwise. I have nothing personal against you and I have no agendas. Generally, I like you and think you are a talented/skilled coder.
I was speaking in a general sense. If a person WAS/IS breaking the rules, do you think they should be banned? If that person is a mod, do you think he should continue to be a mod?

Here is the rule as stated in the AUP:
Quote: "Due to continuous problems the following subjects are also banned from discussion on all of our forums:

3.7 Talk about religious belief, or anything to do with religion (pro or anti)
3.8 Talk about any form of pro or anti government sentiments, irrespective of which government
3.9 Talk about any form of creationist / evolutionary theories (pro or anti)
3.10 Talk about abortion (pro or anti)"


Don't you think your sig falls under 3.8? If not, don't you think it is bait for 3.8 to happen? What if I linked to an anti-abortion video in my sig? Would that be against the rules. Kids come to this site. What if one clicked on your link and started watching the video, which was then, in turn seen by their parents. What if the kid was no longer allowed to visit this site because of that? Isn't that why those rules exist.

Again, I don't dislike you and wish no ill will upon you. I just don't understand how it is acceptable. If it was expained before in the thread that you eluded to, then fine. Show me where it is so I can read it. I did a search and did not find it. Explain it to me and I'll leave you alone about it.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:45 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 19:46
Link
Okay... avoiding flamebait and the arguement over CR's signature, which in my opinion doesn't break any rules...

Quote: "I have faith in the Supreme Court They aren't bound by politics."

I only wish that were true. The newest Supreme Court Judge, Judge John Roberts, was hand-selected by George Bush because he wants to have an effect on the Supreme Court. Roe vs. Wade? The Scopes Trial? I'm pretty sure Bush wants those overturned, regardless of what we the people want.

I can't stand it how everyone is all freaking out over Bush infringing the rights of the people lately. I've been saying this was going to happen for years! The wiretapping without warrants, Habeus Corpus, the huge torture scandal, and about a zillion other things he's done that strips each and every one of us of our civil liberties. Have any of you read the Patriot Act? Unlike most of our representatives in government, I read the Patriot Act as soon as it was released, and I stood on a mountaintop waiving a yellow flag and urged everyone to read it and understand precisely what was going to happen, but no one listens to me Yet again I'm 100% correct. I could very easily turn this into a Bush-bashing thread, but I won't do it. I don't need to. For the love of god (or whatever it is that you do or do not believe in) help get this guy impeached in December by voting in November. I don't care how big of a George Orwell fan you are, 1984 shouldn't become a reality, nor should Demolition Man or a rich mixture of the two.

On 9/11, I lost people who were close to me. And like any other sane person, I was worried about another attack. When we went into Afghansistan I was like "hooray vengeance!" But since then our airports and seaports have become less safe, and the President has inched his way toward becoming a totalitarian fundamentalist dictator. This goes above and beyond a political debate, guys. I don't care if you're a democrat or a republican or a libertarian or a lunch lady, it simply doesn't matter right now... the fact is a dictator of any party is wrong and needs to be impeached as soon as possible. I'm just waiting for the announcement that we all need to have transponders installed in our hands Because seriously, how else could it get worse?


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
El Goorf
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Sep 2006
Location: Uni: Manchester, Home: Dunstable
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:46
Link
*agrees with CR*

however, PHILLIAM, i have a bone to pick with you:

Quote: "Incidentally, America does not have the longest running democracy. That'd be England in the modern era and either the Roman Republic or Athens in the ancient era. Note, though, that definitions of democracy vary over time."


a state where only the nobles can vote, and where slavery is a big trade, there is no democracy.

as for the actual main arguement... yeh, what CR said.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:54 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 21:10
Link
@ Wolf, thank you for taking the time to elaborate and help clear up this issue. I will do my best to respectfully help in that endeavor as well.

I am repasting the aup section you quoted and referred to just for my ease of response. I take it that 3.8 is the only contested bit (if I am wrong please let me know) so I will remove the others for brevity sake:

Quote: "Quote: "Due to continuous problems the following subjects are also banned from discussion on all of our forums:

3.8 Talk about any form of pro or anti government sentiments, irrespective of which government"


The sig text, as a whole, in no way, mentions any government. The second half could be construed as "anti gov sentiment" but on its face it does not, since it refers to the first part of the sig that mentions no gov whatsoever. I am of the mind that the "user" is responsible for where a sig link goes, since the user had to click it, to get there, regardless of the text in the sig link. If my sig text doesn't break 3.8 then anything beyond it is not anyone's responsibility other than the user who clicked it. If you had a sig link that said "Kill the US Gov" that would break 3.8, regardless of what comes next after clicking it.

I feel the sig link text, regardless of what it links to, doesnt break 3.8. Further, that sig has been there for some months now, and there have been many discussions about it which I can't imagine other mods and rich havent seen, or been involved in. I have never been asked/told to change it.

Hopefully this is a sufficient answer. I welcome further discussion if need be, but we should really be worried about Habeas Corpus and discussing that

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 19:55 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 20:11
Link
edit:
Just read CR's post.

OK, so if I put in my sig:
Murder -> "link to an ant-abortion movie"

That would be ok?

To me it is bait. It is trolling (also in the AUP). You having to have many discussions about it is evidence. It gets two people, that might like each other otherwise, to have differences that could cause "unrelated" problems on this message board.

As I said, I have no real problem with you. I can seperate the two (talanted coder vs political differences). Not everyone can do that though. It HAS and will continue to cause problems. I don't see how that isn't bait.

Quote: "I welcome further discussion if need be, but we should really be worried about Habeus Corpus and discussing that"

Give me your e-mail address. I'll be happy to discuss it with you privately if you wish.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
adr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: Job Centre
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:09 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 20:12
Link
I have no interest in your squabbles, but I'd like to point out there's a difference between "Abortion = baby murder" and "Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11". They're both hot topics, but one is phrased to shock, and the other isn't.

Your example sig is border line disturbing, whereas CR's text implies a conspiracy. If I had a sig which linked to a documentry on the JFK assasination, would that be anti-govornment?

It's interesting what sort of interpretation you can get on 6 words, but it's more depressing how pissed off people get about it.

--- EDIT
forum feature suggestion a button next on each reply, like WWW or MSN, which just describes someone's political stance.

[center]
But you see, I have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? Me!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:13
Link
Yeah... I changed it when I read CR's post. He posted while I was writing.

Re-read.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:20
Link
If I felt strongly about abortion, and put 'Abortion - Murder' in my sig if the video showed that, it would be okay, because there would be other people interested in that point of view or something to strengthen their point of view, then they would click on it. Any one who clicks on a sig titles '9/11 - Fake 9/11' will expect to find something provokative, and if they don't want anything to do with conspiracy theories, then they wouldn't click on it.
You can't walk around life with out offending someone, which doesn't mean we're not allowed to express or subtly share our view, if we weren't allowed to, then these PC tw**s are getting their own way, I mean I wouldn't be allowed to say 'for god's sake' incase I might offend a christian...

If I were to see a sig saying, 'Buddhists - Nonsense' then a link to a video, I wouldn't click on it, (well I might out of curiousity) I'd be slightly offended, but wouldn't throw the book at them, because there is nothing to throw. If CR's sig was against the AUP wouldn't it have been removed by Rich Davey or a fellow mod?

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:41
Link
Quote: "If I felt strongly about abortion, and put 'Abortion - Murder' in my sig if the video showed that, it would be okay, because there would be other people interested in that point of view or something to strengthen their point of view, then they would click on it. Any one who clicks on a sig titles '9/11 - Fake 9/11' will expect to find something provokative, and if they don't want anything to do with conspiracy theories, then they wouldn't click on it.
"


Would it be ok? It will also cause people that are AGAINST certain points of view to click on it just to see what it is about. That WILL and HAS caused problems. In fact, it could (and has) stirred actual discussion on the topic which IS against the AUP. I can't see it as anything but bait. Sorry...

If "everyone" is OK with it, then fine. I won't say another word. Other people will though and it will continue to cause problems. That's not what I thought most people on this forum would want, namely the mods. Oh well, enough said from me

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:41 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 20:43
Link
So considering, that posting heated opinions on an internet forum is the height of geekiness anyway, whats the big deal? This is Geek talk isn't it?! CR has a valid opinion (it's bending towards conspiracy theories a little too much for my liking, but... at least half ARE true.)

I'm quite worried about the complete disinterest in the public realm regarding the continuing erosion of our civil rights.

I think the best thing for us all is to post blogs and then argue with each other there... (and when they go quiet we can all theorise that the thought police took them aw - I'm mean - they got married!)

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Back to top
Profile PM
Rob B
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2004
Location: Paola
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:43
Link
Conspiracy Theory

Afraid and without thinking twice
reality too boring and nice
chasing ghosts and illusions
jumping to irrational conclusions
when an obvious answer will suffice

- Rob B
Back to top
Profile PM
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:57 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 21:00
Link
actually...

Conspiracy: an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

Theory: a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.

Quote: "A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis. "


Conspiracy Theory: A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.

We have been taught and conditioned to believe that "Conspiracy Theory/Theorist" terms people as nut cases and whack jobs etc. Interpretation is your own - or is it?

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:58
Link
Quote: "So considering, that posting heated opinions on an internet forum is the height of geekiness anyway, whats the big deal? This is Geek talk isn't it?! CR has a valid opinion (it's bending towards conspiracy theories a little too much for my liking, but... at least half ARE true.)"


It's not at all about if CR is correct in his theories. I haven't argued that at all. The argument that I had was should it be discussed here in relation to the AUP that the mods are supposed to enforce and if his sig is causing discsussions that are against the AUP to happen.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 20:58
Link
Quote: "Would it be ok?"


Yes, I am leaving my opinion in a form its open for people to check, there are people who are interested in it and your point of view, his sig isn't in its self directly offensive, or the sig itself, it basically with a few words describes the contest, which surely, the fact that it say 'fake 9/11' could offend people.

And surely it is okay to express ones opinion as long as it isn't directly offensive (eg. Scientology is gay) Whatever your opinion is, you're going to offend someone, even with the slighest bit, but is nothing for people to complain about...Its like if I were to say 'The Sun, Fox, The Daily Sport offend me, remove them right now!' They do offend me, I can avoid fox, but in a shop I will see that sun and the daily sport, and there are times they offend me and p*ss me off, but some people like it, so I'm not going to say take it off the shelf.

Also, political satire seems to quite offensive in the USA, I mean what happened to 'Thats my bush?' and why don't we hear of complete mockery of politicians over there, we get it left right and center here in England, extremely offensive to anyone who supports Bush or Blair, but perfectly okay to express.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Cash Curtis II
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:04
Link
Well, this has turned into a huge debate on whether or not a thread should be locked. I actually don't see anything wrong with the thread itself. I guess the problem is that it could likely spark a political debate, but the thread itself is just a statement of something that is happening. This thread doesn't violate anything.


Come see the WIP!
Back to top
Profile PM
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:11
Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:18
Link
Quote: "Also, political satire seems to quite offensive in the USA"


Listen to the leftwing nutjob if you want to be aware of some of the less stuff visible stuff (not at the front of mainstream US media) going on in the US today. The guy presenting it speaks it like an over-the-top newscaster. It's all researched and quite unbiased.

Quote: "extremely offensive to anyone who supports Bush or Blair"
I think if you support any political party in the UK you have to accept that it will come with a tinge of ridicule!

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
BIRTHSTAR:FRONTLINE - Texture & Environment Artist
Back to top
Profile PM
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:28
Link
Quote: "I think if you support any political party in the UK you have to accept that it will come with a tinge of ridicule"


Unfortunately thats not so for everyone, we haven't spoken to my aunt and uncle since we insulted Tony Blair...Well a little, but never seen...

I think if America could accept political satire and that whole laid back idea, perhaps the typical american sterotype image would change, I mean on stuff like 'have I got news for you' any politician that is invited basically has to eat their own words, but taking it as though they were laughing in a mirror, I mean I never knew William Hague had a sense of humour.
Also the focus of PC would be less...but I swear one day, I am going to do the PC thing of how PC is offensive to my way of life and my ideals and see how far I get...

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:46
Link
Have you ever seen any of the Daily Show on comedy central?

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Kentaree
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:56
Link
I think it's mainly how Americans react to critisism/sattire from outside their own country. Of course people are going to be patriotic, but whenever the word America is mentioned by anyone non-American and an argument is likely to break out

Nephin Games
Devhat Developer Network and IRC Channel
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 21:57
Link
I would have locked this if a mod didn't already come in here. It's weird how this one remains open while the gun thread was locked instantly. Hehehe.


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 22:17
Link
Good point Jeku, good point After going back and re-reading my previous post I decided that it's better to not say anything on the topic, other than the fact that:

I like the Daily Show. There, I said it. It's funny. It's disturbing that so many people apparently get their news from that show, as studies keep showing repeatedly, but I guess it's good that at least they know what's happening in the world, or at least they get a good idea. But whatever, it's funny. Stewart/ Colbert '08


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 22:25
Link
Quote: "Have you ever seen any of the Daily Show on comedy central?"


Comedy central is probaly to my knowledge is the only place that would show it, as well as south park, and thats where 'thats my Bush is shown', but its no way near accepted as it should be IMO.

Quote: "Of course people are going to be patriotic,"


As soon as more people realise patriotism is for the country and not the men in suits, they'd be able to say bad things about their government and enjoy sattire, because really its not insulting, but a jab at people's stupidity and joking about them...But hats off to team america and South Park though

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Saikoro
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2003
Location: California
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 22:32
Link
Just a few more years to 08...

This really is another Vietnam War, isn't it? And now with N. Korea testing nukes, the entire middle east thing, and the fact that America is probably the most hated country in the world, it seems our boy George Bush didn't do very well making friends at the UN. Yet what shocks me is how they tried to impeach Clinton for having sex, but not Bush for what he's doing.


[url="http://www.phoenixophelia.com"]PhOp[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 23:11
Link
I agree, the problem is greed and the fact people won't admit when they're wrong, why are politicians so uptight and close minded, Bush and Blair should never have had power, we should have kept John Major, he wasn't perfect, but at least he did a much better job, and probaly the closest to a politician we'll get, unless I suddenly become Prime Minister

Also, can Georgie actually say Habeus Corpus? It was like I was surprised Britney named her album 'My prerogative' (sp?)

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 23:32
Link
As I always say Matty, Clinton's lie killed a dress, Bush's lie killed thousands of Americans... but anyway

Everyone needs to vote in November. Everyone 18+ anyway. It's the only way we can stop Bush and his hooligans from committing more crimes against our privacy (that's what this thread is about, privacy... I can think of hundreds (literally!) of reasons why we should impeach Bush, "Privacy" and issues related to privacy make up about 1/16th of those reasons, but the thread is about privacy and not about politics so please note that I'm trying my best here!). If you voted for him in 2000 or in 2004, fine, whatever, you won we lost, but now it's time to stop playing partisanship games and get rid of Bush, and the only way that's going to happen is if you vote for the democrats next month. Period. It won't happen any other way. Your choices are (A) vote for a dem, or (B) start reading George Orwell's stuff and learn from its practical lessons because we're heading into 1984. It would be nice to go to a different country without having to lie and say I'm Canadian.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 11th Oct 2006 23:41
Link
Alright, if you guys want to keep posting your political views here, I'm going to lock this thread. If you have problems with it, contact me. I don't want to see anyone get banned here, and at the same time I have to adhere to the AUP.


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
Back to top
Profile PM Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 12th Oct 2006 01:51
Link
sorry should have locked it earlier, my fault for a change

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-17 17:31:36
Your offset time is: 2024-11-17 17:31:36