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Geek Culture / What job will you do when the electricity runs out?

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Redmotion
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 11:52
I work at an architects at the moment. I'll probably have to switch back to pen and paper!

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Kentaree
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 11:59
Not gonna happen, just going to install a few wind turbines and we'll be grand I was going to say solar panels, but that's probably a little optimistic.
The person who invents a rain-powered generator will be rich...

indi
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 12:35
Im an animator / cartoonist / graphic artist by trade.
Id have to replace the mouse for a letraset again.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 12:52
Yeah nuclear power and wind turbines seem to be the direction were headed

adr
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 12:57
Quote: "The person who invents a rain-powered generator will be rich..."

That might be OK for Ireland, but here in Manchester we need a "neither windy, nor rainy, nor sunny weather"-powered generator.

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Robot
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:06
Sounds like cloud power is needed.
Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:11
nuclear power hey??

i'd probably become some sort fo super hero bent on stopping Dr Evil Bad NoNo after a research experiment goes wrong on set.

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:13
or some sort of bent super hero

Redmotion
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:47
Nuclear power is a temporary solution. And the contamination is horrific. I don't think it can be relied upon. Especially when the only truely "safe" way to dispose of it is 5 miles beneath the earths surface - at a cost which pretty much makes it unviable or very unpalettable to politicians. Then Idiot corporations will pop up saying they can do it for a 10th of the cost and following that, a scandal will erupt 10 years later uncovering the fact that instead of putting it 5 miles down beneath rock they've actually just been dumping it in the sea.

Nuclear Fusion would be much better - if we can get it to work...

Quote: "i'd probably become some sort fo super hero bent on stopping Dr Evil Bad NoNo after a research experiment goes wrong on set."


lmao - please do everyone a favour and read through your post at least ONCE before you post it!!

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Raven
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:51
I'm a little confused to the question..
If the power goes out in your home, then wouldn't that be a wake up call that you're not making quite minimum wage at work

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 13:53
One day obesity will be a thing of the past. Us compo dudes will be sitting at our compos, beavering away at our games, while pedaling our exercise bike dynamos to keep the beast running! Problem solved. Come again please.


Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:00 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 14:03
In the context of the UK,
Britain already gets about 25% of its power from nuclear stations.
To provide all of the demand through wind alone is unfeasable therefore there will still be a need for nuclear until an alternative is sought. A decision will need to be made soon though, as most of our existing plants will need to be shut down through old age in the next 20 years or so.

It may be a messy solution but its the most effective one thus far, and less face it, when it comes to the dilemma of widescreen tellys or fields of butterflys we all know what the government will choose.

Fallout
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:29 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 14:30
It is unfeasible, but it wouldn't be if we all sacrificed a few thousand nugs and our picturesque houses and all have wind turbines and solar panels installed. I dont know how much it'd cost subsidised. If the government contracted a company to sell us the gear at cost, we could power our own houses. I saw a proggy the other day where a guy had a few solar panels and a mini-wind turbine and had an excess of power that he wanted to sell back to the powergrid, but they dont have the infrastructure in place.

I, for one, would be happy to invest into powering my own house if it were possible. I don't know what the costs are. I think it's a bit of a shame when people say they'd never have solar panels or a wind turbine because they'd be ugly. You'll probably find 75% of their relatives are ugly, but they still have them round on christmas.


indi
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:40
yeah but the aussies have all the fuel for nuke plants.
you may have the bomb, but we got the uranium

Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:40
B&Q do a dodgy looking turbine kit, supplied and fitted for £1500 but it only supplies whilst turning and it needs to turn at something like 30mph to produce anything worthwhile. There is no battery storage with it.

I dont know if its true but ive heard that solar panels arnt all that effective for the outlay, the best bet is to go with solar tubes but they only heat your water.


I think it would be great to be self sufficient, my sister is headed that way. She has quite a few trees on her land that allow her to run a log fire which heats the water and central heating. They have a turbine ordered and a large ups is in the attic.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:50
hyrichter
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 16:15
Quote: "The person who invents a rain-powered generator will be rich...
"

Not here is Arizona.

I did a research paper on nuclear power about 4 years ago. What I came up with is that nobody has died in the US as a direct result of nuclear power. However, Chernobyl was a catastrophe, but it was only because of some idiots. Just a few numbers for you:
Quote: "
The waste quantities of nuclear power are very small in comparison to other power plants and industrial operations. A large scale 1000 megawatt plant produces thirty tonnes (metric tons) of high level radioactive spent fuel, and about eight hundred tonnes of low and intermediate level waste. All this waste can be compacted to thirty cubic meters from one plant, which is about three thousand cubic meters of waste from all U.S. nuclear power plants. In comparison, the industrial operations of the United States produce approximately 50,000,000 cubic meters of solid waste.
Nuclear power is also helping to reduce air pollution. All energy production is responsible for eighty-five percent of greenhouse emissions such as carbon dioxide. It is estimated that if nuclear power was removed, there would be a thirty-two percent increase in carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere. Nuclear power accounts for seventy percent of all emission free electricity in the United States and is the largest reduction of carbon going into the atmosphere.
The reason that nuclear power produces such small waste quantities in comparison to other power plants is the high energy density of the fuel. One kilogram of uranium can be used to produce 50,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity. In comparison, one kilogram of coal produces only three kilowatt-hours, and one kilogram of oil produces four kilowatt-hours of electricity. The comparisons for the annual fuel usage in tonnes of a one thousand megawatt power plant are as follows: coal, 2,600,000 tonnes; oil, 2,000,000 tonnes; and uranium, 30 tonnes."


Of course, then there's the other side of the story if something does go wrong:
Quote: "On April 25, 1986, the Unit 4 reactor of the Chernobyl power plant was shut down for maintenance. During the shutdown, some of the workers decided to see if a slowing turbine could provide enough electricity to operate emergency equipment until the emergency diesel power could become operative. This test was to determine if cooling the reactor core could be continued in the loss of power. The test was carried out without exchange of information and coordination with the personnel in charge of operation and safety of the plant. The workers shut off the emergency core cooling system of the power plant and only used six to eight of the control rods. The control rods absorb extra neutrons and help keep the reactor from overheating. The safety requirement was that at least thirty control rods should always be used. The extra heat created by not using enough control rods caused an increase in coolant flow which reduced steam pressure. An automatic trip would have shut down the reactor, but it had been disabled for the test. The workers continued their test and reduced the flow of feed water to increase steam pressure. This caused there to be less coolant in the reactor and increased the steam pressure, creating a power surge one hundred times normal. This is when the accident happened.
The accident completely destroyed the Unit 4 reactor and thirty-one people were killed by the explosion. Twelve trillion international units of radioactive material, called “becquerels” were released into the environment, and radioactive material was detected all across the Northern Hemisphere. This accident released four hundred times more radioactive material into the atmosphere than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. A total of 237 people were admitted to hospitals, and 134 were diagnosed with “acute radiation syndrome.” Of those people, twenty-eight died within three months, and fourteen died over the next ten years.
Since the accident, the main health impact that has been noticed is an increase of thyroid cancer among children who were under four years old at the time of the accident. There has also been some psychological stress in the affected areas. Most of the psychological problems are fears of the unknown and mistrust toward the public authorities.
Most of the environmental impacts were short-term. The lethal doses of radioactive material to plants and animals were received within the first few weeks after the accident. The amount of radiation declined by a factor of one hundred by autumn of 1986, and the environment had recovered visibly by 1989. In most instances, long-term effects on plants and animals couldn’t be seen."


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 16:38
If power were gone I suppose I would hire people to run on treadmills for scraps of food to power the "new wave" of energy. Want to run oblivion for 3 hours? $500

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:10
If there was no electricity, my career as a writer would be compromised, but they managed it in the 'old days' and with no TV and computer games, the demand for writers would increase and I'd be filthy rich, whilst game developers are thinking what the hell am I gonna do with a £5k computer and software when its worth bugger all.

Raven
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:11
Hyrichter, I remember reading that for a similar paper back in 2000. Was more towards the actual material dynamics and energy produced, but did similar research.

Remember when that accident happened, the media had a frenzy over it. While it was a fairly tragic accident, the underlaying fact was that the environment on the whole is not actually as damaged as people believed.

Hiroshima is a very good example of the fact that "Nuclear Winter" is more of a scare tactic, and the overal reality is that areas are affected temporarily by lethal radiation from such inccidents.

While the radioactive materials do have half-lives of around 3,000 years for effects to disappate; what people forget is that they're infused (because of the fusion technique used to create the controlled power release) and isn't the same as free radiation which is very quickly disappated.

Areas can very quickly become habitable after a nuclear event within a matter of months to a safe level, and around 3-4years before the effects become almost untracable.

Nuclear power is still by far one of the cleanest and best ways to provide energy. I wouldn't trust it outside of a controlled situation, but within a large controlled situation is still has the best potencial.

A nuclear event like that in Cheynoble, actually caused less environmental damage than an oil rig that catches fire. It also has less potencial for such an event to happen given build up time to a nuclear even isn't instantaneous meaning measures can still be taken to try to prevent such issues.

Also another point is that Nuclear Waste IS cleanable. It is entirely possible to destroy it's radioactive properties, the only reason that it isn't done in general everyday nuclear power-stations is because of the cost. Interestingly enough as well, unlike Coal and Oil which are very rare in deposites; it is possible to create power-grade uranium synthetically. Again not done due to costs.

Still never will be *as* clean as Wind, Water or Solar energy.
Interesing fact, 25% of the UKs energy comes from such devices; can't remember the nuclear percentage, but it's not that high iirc. Hense why the governments trying to lobby for more nuclear plants to replace the current coal ones.

More interesting still, the UKs overall emissions (cars, factories, power plants, etc); if they were to completely stop tomorrow it would only take China, 8days to achieve the same amount of polution we do within an entire year.

I do like the whole "energy conservation" and such... but it's unfortunate that those who are part of the G8 clean air agreement are counteries that have the lowest world-wide emissions. Craziness if you ask me. Probably will get one of those Wind Turbine things at some point when I have a house again, be a good idea given the ridiculous rises in energy prices.

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:15
Quote: "watch this whole thing..."


Are you actually completely insane?!?!?! It's almost 2 hours long!!! That is complete lunacy!!


Tinkergirl
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:34
Quote: "Areas can very quickly become habitable after a nuclear event within a matter of months to a safe level, and around 3-4years before the effects become almost untracable."


Sure, as long as you don't mind long term increase in the amount of cancers or abnormal and abortive births, and the effects lasting several generations of survivors.

As for the original, and I'll assume slightly light hearted question - I'd take to growing some of my own food, and keeping bees. I'll at least have beeswax candles As for a profession, I'm not sure - I'm a games maker, first and foremost, so I'd need to find other games to make. Maybe board games, rpgs, or game events (like murder mysteries).

Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:39 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 17:53
This is quite a good site regarding the notion of free energy
http://freeenergynews.com/

whilst many people have come up with the promise of free energy I dont think we will be seeing it in the mainstream anytime soon and that may be down to its validity as being truely 'free' or even dun dun dun Government intervention.

That vid brought up some nice ideas though one or two of the inventors seem a little shady.Especially this bloke....

Dennis Lee (Perhaps a bigger conspiracy theorist than CR):
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis.html
http://www.nmsr.org/denislee.htm
http://www.phact.org/e/z/leemotortest.htm


Edit . BTW I was insane enough to watch it

David R
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:46 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 17:47
Quote: "Areas can very quickly become habitable after a nuclear event within a matter of months to a safe level, and around 3-4years before the effects become almost untracable."


Along with what Tinkergirl said, the ground will be contaminated (soils, rocks especially) , along with all the plants and water.

It affects the water cycle, the water you drink, the food you eat, and also the food chain as a whole

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:49
I draw cartoons by hand, and newspapers are older than electricity... So as long as I have art syplies and some natural gas lanterns I'm good.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 17:52 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 17:54
Quote: "RAVEN:- Areas can very quickly become habitable after a nuclear event within a matter of months to a safe level, and around 3-4years before the effects become almost untracable."


Quote: "
It was estimated that eight years after the accident 8,000 people had died from diseases due to radiation (about 7,000 of them from the Chernobyl cleanup crew). Doctors think that about 10,000 others will die from cancer. the most frightening fact is that children who were not born when the catastrophe occurred inherited diseases from their parents.
The radioactive energy released at Chernobyl was two times bigger than that created by the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War Second. The radioactivity was spread by the wind mostly over Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia but there are traces of it as far as Italy and France."







Quote: "RAVEN:- A nuclear event like that in Cheynoble, actually caused less environmental damage than an oil rig that catches fire. It also has less potencial for such an event to happen given build up time to a nuclear even isn't instantaneous meaning measures can still be taken to try to prevent such issues."


Quote: "30 million still at risk
More than 30 million people could be contaminated by radioactivity sweeping down rivers from the Chernobyl nuclear power station. Floods are carrying downstream radioactive waste dumped around the reactor ten years ago when it exploded and caught fire. The lake most contaminated by radioactivity from Chernobyl is 250 km (155 miles) from the site. Fish in the Russian Lake Kojanovskoe has radiation levels 60 times above European Union safety norms and all fishing should be banned, scientists claim. Reservoirs downstream from the damaged reactor provide drinking water for nine million Ukrainians as well as irrigation and fish for another 23 million.
Source: Reuter, March 21, 1996"


El Goorf
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 18:26
when electricity finally runs out, i'm gonna become a powerplant builder.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 18:40
I'd continue being a pimp. Don't need electricity for that.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 18:43
I'll invent electricity then I'll rule the world.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 19:00
Pff - didn't do Tesla much good. Poor man died without a penny to his name.

Peter H
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 19:10
Quote: "I saw a proggy the other day where a guy had a few solar panels and a mini-wind turbine and had an excess of power that he wanted to sell back to the powergrid, but they dont have the infrastructure in place. "

My uncle has something kind of like that set up, he gets excess occaisionally and feeds it back into the grid (he's in florida) they then give him a discount on further power he needs later (if his solar panels come up short say) but they refuse to just straight up pay him for it

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 20:46
Quote: "Pff - didn't do Tesla much good. Poor man died without a penny to his name"


and they supressed his work, and basically tried to remove him from history.

one of the oil-barron-ruling-elite's "greatest hits"
one of many

Fallout
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 20:54
Btw, I did watch that vid in the end CR. Interesting stuff. Skeptical, but not totally. Hope to see something come from it in the near future.


David R
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 21:01
Yeah, poor old Telsa I didn't know anything about the bloke up until last year, and I was quite amazed by the achievements he made in technology - he's a bloody clever bloke.

His death with little money isn't exactly a tragedy though; Ok it isn't great, but I seem to remember him having very little interest in money.

And at least his work still lives on, through virtually every electrical appliance in the work

Jeku
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 21:56
I'm a software engineer, so unless they have some crazy intelligent abacus' I'm screwed when the power goes out. But I'm on salary so a few days off won't cost me a dime!

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 21:58
I'd actually go on an Adventure. Instead of playing an RPG, I'd live one. My friends and I would be thick as theives and we'd travel on an epic quest... to somewhere lol.

Other than that, I'd think I'd be the guy working on getting electricity to run again.
Chris K
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 22:46
That video seems pretty stupid.

I haven't finished it, but it's already mentioned Cold Fusion.

Which is CRAP. CCCRRRAAAAAPP.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
David R
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 23:08
No, it isn't crap; it simply challenges mainstream science. But who holds the ultimate authority over what is right and wrong, especially in science?

We don't know nearly enough to make judgements on what is and isn't correct, especially in regards to energy and its 'creation'/transferal

Chris K
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 23:22
As sure as humanity knows any knowledge, man knows cold fusion doesn't work.

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 23:53
Dont you think the constant rewriting of the physics laws is a bit of a give away that we don't know anything about physics? We're simply making rules that work for our known physical universe ... for now ... until we discover what lies beneath, and rewrite the rules all over again.


Chris K
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 00:09
The thing is, most of physics (modern physics, not crackpot ancient physics) is based on/derived from infallible maths.

Cold Fusion, though has basically no evidence for it, and about a ton of evidence against it. If something has had as much exposure as Cold Fusion, but not been accepted, or even seriously considered, you have to doubt it.

It's not a case of, we haven't discovered it, it's a case of 99% of the world's scientists looked at it and laughed.

They didn't not understand it, they understood entirely why it couldn't work.

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 03:33
Cold Fusion works--- I used it a few years ago to make a website!!

rabid rabbit
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 04:31
Honest to goodness, I know of a 500% efficient generator, and a 100% efficient motor. Combine the 2 together, free elctricity. It runs on magnetism. The guy who makes them has been scared into hiding by the government and big business who don't want this sort of thing to get out...

Watch out, this bunny bites...
hyrichter
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 05:13
Riiighhht. Just like the guy who was quietly disposed of because he was caught filling his gas tank up with a garden hose.

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Fallout
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 11:20
Quote: "It's not a case of, we haven't discovered it, it's a case of 99% of the world's scientists looked at it and laughed.

They didn't not understand it, they understood entirely why it couldn't work."


Yeah, but you have to admit, that's how it's always been throughout history. You get a load of fakers, a load of liers, and a load of lunatics coming up with crap that the scientists dismiss. But eventually one or two of them are right, but get dismissed as quacks too. I would expect 99% of the world's scientists to dismiss it because they're all educated from the same material that dismisses it. They're not pioneers who invented and reasoned all of the theories themselves.

I'm not saying Cold Fusion is true. I dont know. But we can't get on our high horses and say that sinse calling the world flat, we're totally open minded and willing to embrace anything. Clearly, that's not true. Anything that goes against established laws is laughed at. Ya know, top scientists are smart guys ... a lot smarter than any of us ... but it doesn't mean they can truly understand all of the universe. Even Newton and Einstein were proven wrong on various hypothesese, and even Steven Hawkins has back-tracked on his blackhole theories etc. Nobody knows the answers. Its all guess work. Yes, well supported guess work and often proven within our realm of knowledge, but that can't be 100% conclusive.

Like I said, I dont necessarily believe in Cold Fusion but I dont dismiss it either.


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 11:35
It's not possible at our current level of technology and understanding, but like Fallout said, anything is possible. Once things that are common now would have been laughed at. Space travel? Computers? The ideas would have been laughed at because not only was there no possible way that they could be accomplished, but there was absolutely no understanding of the methods by which those things would be accomplished.

Realistically though, anti-matter will likely precede anything like cold fusion, given the nature of the theory of cold fusion and the extraordinarily high output of antimatter. All that would have to happen is that we would have to be able to generate a stream of antimatter atoms that reacts with an equal mass of regular matter atoms in a sealed and controlled environment. The antimatter atoms could not come in contact with the core, and would have to be transported to the reaction area. Theoretically, it makes much more sense than cold fusion.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 18:27
Quote: "All that would have to happen is that we would have to be able to generate a stream of antimatter atoms"

Do you know just how much energy is required to make antimatter?

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HowDo
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 18:47
What about the Zero point generators.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
Steve J
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 19:05
Zero Point Generators sounds swell, but we cant know how it would react. If it uses energy from another universe, how do we know that there arent people in that universe? For all we know, are universe could have had the big bang because something used a zero point generator.

I personally believe that antimatter is the most logical step for large power sums.

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 21:25
I would simply sit here, staring at my computer screen. Indefinitely.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...

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