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Geek Culture / Tough Decision...

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 23:57
I'm going to make a request for constructive criticism... I have a feeling most people will offer just that, but to those of you cruising for a political debate or a "who cares, it wouldn't sell anyway" post, do it elsewhere please

For those of you who have actually explored my team's website beyond the very first page, you probably know that we're planning on releasing two games pretty soon: Eternal Equinox and Capital Punishment. Eternal Equinox is nearing completion as I write this... it's almost ready for draft testing, then after about a week of alpha and beta testing it'll be publically released on retail, our first publically-available commercial game (well, technically). But Capital Punishment is seemingly in trouble, and I'm not sure what I should do.

Capital Punishment is a 2D fighting game based on modern-day politics. The caricature-styled fighters have their own unique fighting moves and include G.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and several others. As it stands, it's approximately 65% complete... but here's where the problem comes in: it's dated now. I started designing and developing the game back in February 2006, shortly after the success of the game Cheney Hunter (2,623 units in one month is pretty darn impressive for a freeware game made within a few days time and only advertised on a handful of internet forums and by word-of-mouth), I started toying with the idea of making Capital Punishment... but the people who were in the news at that time aren't really talked about that much today. The lineup for the game includes:

* George W. Bush
* Dick Cheney
* Bill Clinton
* Hillary Clinton
* Arnold Schwarzenegger
* Michael Moore
* Bill O'Reilly
* Bill Maher
* Ann Coulter
* Jon Stewart
* Osama Bin Laden
* Saddam Hussein
* Kim Jong Il
* Fidel Castro
* Hugo Chavez

But the face of politics has changed pretty dramatically in the past few months. To make the game more up-to-date, I'd have to include people like Nancy Pelosi, Barrack Obama, Mark Foley (oh, the fun I could have with that guy's character), etc. Also, one of the two caricature artists was unable to complete his assignment (there's four characters that are MIA), and it's also missing all of its "alternative heads," which are used for the Mortal Kombat "Finish Him" style scenes. Plus there's the obvious legal matters involved... any of these people who live in the western world could very easily sue me for making them look sinister, especially Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly, who probably would sue me if I gave them an opportunity like this.

So here's the options:

(A) We finish the game and sell it online, risking that no one would play it because the characters are dated, without the alternative heads, and running the risk of being sued by the people featured in the game.

(B) We scrap the game and throw away about a thousand collective hours of work (between the art, music, sound effects, programming, planning, designing, etc.) and shift our gears toward making a different 2D game, a sci-fi game we've been internally talking about doing for about a year now.

Both options suck... there's no two ways around that. I don't want to throw away the game and have wasted all of that time and effort, but at the same time I don't want to release a game that no one will want to buy and could potentially get our company sued (and it can't be released as I really wanted it to be because the artists are both fully booked and don't have the time we'd need to finish the last four heads and all 19 alternative heads). I particularly feel bad for the caricature artists... they put a lot of work into the game and they expect results, you know? Especially being that this was the only game they'd ever worked on, and chances are, the only game they'll ever get to work on (not many games use caricature art). Yuck, I don't know what I should do here, and I don't have much time to figure it out. Any ideas?


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Codelike
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 00:07 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 00:10
Apart from the middle three (o'Reilly, Maher, Coulter) whom I don't immediately recognise (though have heard of) - I wouldn't say that the 'characters' are going to be a problem, aside from any legal issue. Dated? Not at all!

Can I make a request for Tony Blair, Vladimir Putin & whatsisface in Iran to be added?

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
The dude guy
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 01:36
Go for a
SageTech
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 01:53
Quite simply, go for it. Oh how Id love to deliver a smack-down to Ann Coulter.

Back by unpopular demand!
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 01:57
Quote: "any of these people who live in the western world could very easily sue me for making them look sinister, especially Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly, who probably would sue me if I gave them an opportunity like this."


If the game is designed to be satirical they cannot sue you, thats how political cartoonists do it. If you were to say present things in the games as "facts" about the people that were not true, or state that the game is "true to life" you could end up with a problem. Make it comical and obvious that it is an abstract of reality and you will not have a problem. Best always of course to consult a lawyer to make sure you do not pass any legal boundries.

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 02:18
Where's John Kerry?

And Stephen Harper?

VR2
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 02:40
What about just releasing it as freeware?

If your game is good (and it sounds like it is) you'll get thousands of people playing it so your time would not have been wasted.

Sure *possibly* someone could sue you for including "them" in a game like that but I doubt very much they would - this would be seen as satire - especially if you changed the names ever-so-slightly to Arnold Frankenfurter for example...everyone would know who it was based on but you could further claim that any resemblance to persons living or dead was purely co-incidental
Matt Rock
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 03:15 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 03:19
Originally we planned to have John Kerry in the game (it took almost two weeks to figure out how someone can bore an opponent to death), but he's one of the four characters that weren't finished... the other three were George Bush Senior (his special move? Vomitting, like when he did that in the Japanese president's lap), Ted Kennedy, and Al Franken. We also wanted to include Jerry Falwell but there were some "logistical issues" with him (we couldn't figure out a good finishing move lol, there were too many options). Back then I was also thinking about putting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (the Iranian President, I probably misspelled his name seeing as how I can't pronounce it) into the game, but back in february it seemed like not a lot of people would know who he was, so we decided to cut him out. Unfortunately, I can't get the caricature artists to get any more stuff done... I never knew this, but the holiday season is a busy time of the year for caricature artists. Who knew? But yeah, if I can get them to work on this project some more, I'd love to get Kerry, Ahmadinejad, Pelosi, and Foley added to the lineup. Maybe even Howard Dean, whose special move would include screaming in your face and making it explode But unfortunately I'm not sure if I can get them back for it

If we release it, we're releasing it as shareware with an unlimited-time free version. If you don't want to pay, you get a bunch of characters and a few maps open. If you pay something like $4.99 (no one can agree on a price), you get all of the characters and maps ("arenas") open, and we talked about a "rumble in the rose garden" mode where up to four players can get in on the action over the net, but I personally despise that idea (I don't see how it could work... it's a scroller, but hey, what do I know ).

If you guys doubt I could be sued, then maybe it's worth a shot. That's my biggest concern really, and if just poking fun at them is okay then I should probably finish it. I'm praying I can get one of the caricature artists to finish the rest of the heads, even if we don't have alternative heads. If we release it as-is, without alternative heads and without the full list of characters (and preferably all of the newer ones I listed as well), we'll probably just release it as freeware and that'll be that. I'm kind of anxious to get working on the sci-fi game but with this game so close to being done I need to make the final decision as to scrapping it or finishing it... seems like a waste not to though. I dunno, I hate stuff like this. I don't want to follow up Cheney Hunter with another under-featured game, you know?

@ Codelike: Bill O'Reilley is a conservative talk show host, Ann Coulter is arguably the most conservative person ever (although mostly just for show I think), and Bill Maher is the host of HBO's "real time" and pretty much personifies "liberal media" hehe. I put them in there because each is radical in their opinions in some way, except Jon Stewart whose just hilarious (imo) and makes a cool character.

PS.- Also, what do you guys think of the title "Capital Punishment?" If I go through with finishing it, is the title too corny, or does its corny-ness achieve the goal of signifying that the game is in no way serious?


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
indi
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 06:47
there was a game on the amiga that was similar to this years ago.

each character was a world leader.
each characters name was a spoof of the real name.
eg: Ronald Reagan - ronny raygun

is was a fabulous game and kept my interest for hours.
world domination was the game.

aliens and cows were part of the silly events that happened.

Grandma
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 10:24
Haha Bill O'Reilly! now THERE'S an down-to-earth honest man.

Osama would be a central character to that game conerning the theme, altough he died back in '01 (wich would make it some dated) he is still kind of a "boogie man" and should be included.

Risky game to make, but would probably pack alot of fun.

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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 16:18
My two-penneth....

1. Use alternative character names. If anyone complains, then they are admitting they can see traits of themselves in the characters you have presented.

2. Use globally identifiable characters. No offense, but US politicians are of no interest to the majority of the rest of the world, and the same goes for US chat-show hosts etc. Bush, Bin Laden, Hussein, Schwarzeneger - they are good choices; immediately identifiable.



Zaibatsu
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 16:26
this sounds a bit like Celebrity Deathmatch to me...

There was originally going to be a game called Capital Punishment from Sierra back when Al Lowe still worked for them.

as for the two options you posted, I would say (a) because then your work doesn't go to waste. although I think freeware would be the best solution, because they would be less likely to sue you if your not CHARGING for their name.

Although, you could try contacting them and see if they grant you permission...

"If it weren't for monsoor here, this town wouldn't be here, and that kid would never grow up to lie about texas!"
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 16:28
As Vink said. Here's how the character appeal to me:

* George W. Bush (Awesome. Would love to smack him in the head)
* Dick Cheney (Zero interest)
* Bill Clinton (Mild interest)
* Hillary Clinton (Zero interest)
* Arnold Schwarzenegger (Obviously, good lad Mr.Governator)
* Michael Moore (Mild interest)
* Bill O'Reilly (Zero interest)
* Bill Maher (Zero interest)
* Ann Coulter (Zero interest)
* Jon Stewart (Zero interest)
* Osama Bin Laden (Yep, fun to smack about)
* Saddam Hussein (Soon to be hanged. Might be a bit weird beating him up)
* Kim Jong Il (Yeah, not bad)
* Fidel Castro (No interest)
* Hugo Chavez (Zero interest)

So as a brit, the vast majority of those characters don't float my boat.


Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 17:06
Matt, is there a special mode where they all get to beat the crap out of Paris Hilton?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 22:25 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 22:26
LOL you know me too well We talked about making Paris Hilton a "special character" -- she was going to be the training dummy so you could learn the game's controls. But I couldn't convince anyone else she was political enough so unfortunately, she was dropped during the conceptual stage But I loved that idea lol.

Bat brings up a good point about globally-recognizable characters, but finding comedic value in other characters is harder for me than it seems Everyone on the list was chosen because of the amount of funny I could take out of them. To go down the list of characters Fallout said he has no interest in and point out why I want them around:

* Dick Cheney (The whole idea spawned from Cheney Hunter, so I just have to have him in the game. Besides, he's the only character armed with a shotgun!)
* Bill Clinton (There's a chance he could be the... first gentleman? Weird! But still, I think he's a good choice, especially with his ill-tempered explosion during an interview that happened recently)
* Hillary Clinton (She could possibly be the next President of the US and she's a heavy-hitter in modern politics)
* Michael Moore (He's the "see? this game isn't liberal!" character, because I'll have him eating... oh... *everything* in the game )
* Bill O'Reilly (He's extremely outspoken and borderline verbally-violent most of the time, I think he's a must lol)
* Bill Maher (again, I had to try and balance the game out with some liberal combatants, plus he's pretty far to the left and it balances against O'Reilly and Coulter)
* Ann Coulter (She's like Bill O'Reilly, but far more militant and she's extremely rude toward anyone and everyone she comes in contact with... I could picture her beating someone up )
* Jon Stewart (I can't really justify him, I just thought he was funny )
Quote: "* Saddam Hussein (Soon to be hanged. Might be a bit weird beating him up)"

I thought about that too. It could be kind of weird, but the amount of jokes I could pull out of a Bush vs. Hussein battle were far too powerful to overcome!
* Fidel Castro (Castro was put on the list because I was having a difficult time finding enemies of the US that people could recognize at the time. But he's been in the news a lot lately so I think his appearance in the game might be somewhat validated)
* Hugo Chavez (He called George Bush "The Devil" at the U.N. recently, he has a ton of comedic value I think. But back in February, he was just another "enemy of the US" that I was trying to find)

I don't think I would remove anyone from the list, but if I could get the caricature artists back (or find a new one) I might add to the list. The question is, who? Tony Blair and Musharraf (sp?) would be good, Ahmadinejad is a must, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out who appeals to both U.S. political junkies and the general international public as well. A friend of mine recently suggested we add Borat, but that's definitely a lawsuit waiting to happen because he falls into the category of licensed IP.

About the names: It's definitely something to consider. I need to get in contact with a lawyer and see just how sued I could get from this. The First Ammendment is pretty powerful and I could probably get away with joking about U.S. elected officials, but does it extend to international figures and media personalities? I'm hoping I can avoid changing the characters' names... there's a lot of work involved in that at this stage of development (you should have seen the mess we had with fitting "Arnold Schwarzenegger" into most of the engine lol fun times)

I guess we should just buckle down, finish the game, and see what happens. If the legal issues are too risky we could spend a day or two changing the names, and I was able to find two caricature artists before, so if I can't get them back then I could always find a third I suppose. Thanks for all of the advice guys!


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 23:25
Hey if you want to put yourself on a death list you could include Mohammed. Coulter is about the only one I see as really weak, most people in this country don't know who she is. You could add some A-list hollywood figures who try to push themselves into the political arena all the time, like Richard Gere(sp), the troll who said he would move out of the country in 2000 if Bush was elected, oddly enough he still lives here. Condaliza Rice is pretty well know world wide. I would go with Prince Charles over Tony Blair, so much visual humor and he could have a dog for a wife(er pet).

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Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Nov 2006 17:34
Well, I didn't recognise half the names there anyway, I seriously doubt most young people would really care to be honest. Just sell that game, and make an upgrade patch later on or something.

This idea kind of reminds me of the old spitting image game on the Atari ST. Magie Thatcher with the boxing cloves was funny.

I lay upon my bed one bright clear night, and gazed upon the distant stars far above, then I thought... where the hell is my roof?
Codelike
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Posted: 12th Nov 2006 19:06
Quote: "I would go with Prince Charles over Tony Blair, so much visual humor and he could have a dog for a wife"


Aw... I've got no problem with Charles, he's alright he is, no need for a punch-up there!

You're after the wrong kind of dog...

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
Matt Rock
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 05:19
This game isn't really targeted at the younger audience. I realized with the last game that younger people and real "gamers" weren't interested in the game (and why would they be, it was corny!). But based on the e-mails I recieved, it was mostly older people, ages 20-ish to 40-ish, who liked the game (or were offended by it), so I figured I would target this game towards them. Generally speaking, younger people don't rightly care about politics. The only reason I did when I was young (like, 10 to 16) was because my parents were so into it, and whenever I tried to talk about politics with my friends at those ages, they all looked at me funny. It's more geared to the older crowd and away from the gamer crowd... kinda risky I think because it's an indie game, and non-gamers are probably far less-likely to buy an indie game, but eh.

About Ann Coulter: She's a relative-unknown, but the people who do know her either love her emphatically or despise her to no end, so I figured she was worth putting in Now that I'm seriously thinking about finishing this game again, maybe Alec Baldwin is worth a discussion... I could definitely make a few jokes about him

The good news is, I'm definitely going to finish this game, or at least give it my best go. The bad news is, one of the caricature artists said he's definitely fully booked, and the other I can't get in touch with, and without at least one of them to give the project more characters, I'm thinking it might not be worth completing. I'm kind of angry actually that some of them don't have alternative heads. Schwarzenegger is supposed to turn into the Terminator robot as a finishing move, and I don't have an open mouth for Michael Moore to eat people (and parts of the arena) with But eh, I'll work it out I guess, I always do.


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 05:50
Hope you continue Matt I would love to see the game. About the only political celeb I would avoid is Michael J Fox, him starting eartquakes with his parkinsans might get you alot of hate mail. I wish I could help in the art department but I have never really done charicatures.

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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 09:00
Who the heck is Alec Baldwin?

Anyway, i hope you get all your artwork sorted out matt. Good luck!

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 05:06
Alec Baldwin is a washed up actor who leans heavily toward the left (and as much as he tries, he doesn't seem to do much to help his cause, but eh).

Anyway, thanks guys! Hopefully everything will get sorted soon. Eternal Equinox (the text adventure game) is pretty much finished, just a bunch of testing left (lots of typos too... think about the average length of one of my posts. Now imagine me not trying to limit myself! Scary game, lots of stuff to read hehe, it's more a digital "choose your own adventure" book than interactive fiction ). Once it's done, I'm hoping to wrap up Capital Punishment asap. I'm also brewing another political game too, one that would be relatively fast & easy to make, but eh, one step at a time hehe. At any rate, when EE is finished there'll be a thread on it in game announcements, and as soon as I get CP to a point where I'm satisfied with its appearance there'll be a WIP thread about that, too (with screenshots of course ).


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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 02:45
Rosie O'Donnell I think might be a good candidate. I know both conservatives and liberals who would love to smack her up.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 03:34 Edited at: 17th Nov 2006 03:35
@Matt Rock -
In answer to your original question, it doesn't sound like you have much choice. Your artist is gone (still, right?) and you've got a product that is nearly finished. You have to release it with the current assets as best you can. Sitting on it will kill it.

The specific politically inspired figures aren't as important as the game itself. Things don't change that fast. All that matters is if people recognize the figure, not how current they are, and how fun the game is. If the game is not fun then it will die no matter how current your figures are. With a bunch of unknowns, you've relegated your game into a niche product, playable only by angry political activist college students.

You'd better hurry Matt, I'm sure the Mafia is about to dump your body in the ocean


Come see the WIP!

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