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Work in Progress / .DDI (beta version)

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Classic Evil
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 02:18
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This is the new image file format that I am working on called .ddi (diagonal data image). Watch these demos to se it for yourself. Right now it takes a long time to load the image but in final versions it will be about 100 times faster.
(note DDI is just a test for an even greater image type that I am working on which will be about one fith the size)

There are two types of people in this world: people who are extremly cool and are good at everything and people who are me.

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dark coder
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 10:06
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I don't get it, all the demos crash once the image is drawn, and the quality looks like something from a zoomed in laser jet printer, alsmost asif you just skipped 1/2 the pixels, I fail to see how this is a viable image format.

Hallowed are the ori.
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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 11:04
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What is wrong with PNGs!

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 18:51
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If this DDI format is capable of having alpha channels, being compressed without any loss of quality and will be much smaller than a PNG file, then yeah it'll beat PNG.

But I dont see how it will.....


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Classic Evil
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 19:20
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first of all this is just the beta version and it is just an experiment for an overall image type that I am creating so I dont care too much about ddi. second of all PNGs are only good for uncomplicated images. I have made DDI images that are about 40% smaller than PNGs.

There are two types of people in this world: people who are extremly cool and are good at everything and people who are me.
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Airslide
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 19:52
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Quote: "PNGs are only good for uncomplicated images"


What would you mean by 'complicated'?

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dark coder
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 20:26
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When they can't find easy compressable patterns, things like a noise map would be hard to compress.

@Classic Evil, being smaller than a .png image doesn't mean anything, the .png format is very complicated, and did you even look at your output images? they look terrible, and you can't compare it to the .png format since it is lossless yours isn't by far, and I'm rather skeptical as to how you 'compressed' it, as due to the poor quality of the image it looks like you merely cut off pixels, and not to mention the load time is around 10x worse than the jpg.



Hallowed are the ori.
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Classic Evil
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 01:21 Edited at: 20th Nov 2006 01:27
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the out put images dont look like that I dont know if the demo you downloaded didnt work but I just downloaded it to make sure it worked and it did. The image created actually looks like this



There are two types of people in this world: people who are extremly cool and are good at everything and people who are me.

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 02:01
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dude, the image you posted looks fake. if you look at the edges of the left-most earth, its fuzzy and not aligned with the others. and i agree with dark coder. i tried your demo and heres my screeny of it. same as his:


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
*New Website Coming Soon*

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Classic Evil
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 02:34
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thats weird I dont know whats wrong with the demo when I download it it worked fine.
dont forget this is just the beta version its how the image is created that is important not the quality of it right now.

There are two types of people in this world: people who are extremly cool and are good at everything and people who are me.
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 05:58
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Quote: "dont forget this is just the beta version its how the image is created that is important not the quality of it right now."


how is that not important? if you arent trying hard to design a good quality, compressed image format, then why would anyone want to use it?


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
*New Website Coming Soon*
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indi
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 07:48
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have you compared your size to the DDS format?
Does your format support mip-mapping?

Sound's like a good idea but i wouldn't want you to rewrite the wheel if its already been perfected, don't let that curb your testing or enthusiasm however.

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Stora tomtefar
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 09:56
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Quote: "thats weird I dont know whats wrong with the demo when I download it it worked fine.
dont forget this is just the beta version its how the image is created that is important not the quality of it right now."


Works fine for for me. I've got an ATI graphic card. Maybe those for whom it doesn't work for has got an NVidia card?... Could be, maybe... Pherhaps.

www.godhatessweden.com

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Olby
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 20:30
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give the guy a break, he just wants to try something new. when I started using DBP I also made lots of my own level and media-archive packages and of course all of them where crap compared to DBO or ZIP for example. keep up the enthusiasm.

AMD Sempron 3.1+ Ghz, 512MB Ram, ATI R9550 256MB Ram, Sound Blaster Live!, WinXP SP2, DirectX 9.0c, DBP 6.2
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HZiM0rT4L
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 22:12
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its half the size of bmp because its half the pixels.

its like a wierd alternative to scanlining that looks like lots of little black 'X's on a white image

DB PRO RULES!
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 05:52
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Seriously guys, he's doing something for the sake of expanding his knowledge. Did he ever say he was going to make a better image format than PNG or DDS? Be easy on him. You guys are so touchy sometimes.

Good luck Classic Evil.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 08:25
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Quote: "Did he ever say he was going to make a better image format than PNG or DDS?"


Quote: "sorry guys I havent worked on Pixture in a while. right now Im working on image file compression that will someday be the new standard and finally replace JPEGs"


Hallowed are the ori.
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indi
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 12:24
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I said nothing negative, I was mentioning DDS as an alternative to what's compared. Perhaps some people are reading too much into it.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 19:48
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From what I see from the pictutes, it's practically the same as the others (apart from it's slightly pixelated in some places, but that's to be expected). Let's just face it, it's better than BMP, and they're used quite frequently, so there's exactly unstandard about this.

Don't forget about TIFFs, for a while they were very popular, and they were even higher file size than bmps.

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Inverted
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 23:48
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O.o interesting

Opposites are different, not wrong
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Mason
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 04:36
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I think it seems like something fun to experiment with, but that whole thing about the jpeg is an overstatement.


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Diggsey
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 19:11 Edited at: 1st Dec 2006 19:12
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Actually, png compression is not image specialised. Therefore, you could beat it. In the first demo, zip the bitmap, and compare its filesize to the png. As you will see, a png is just a zipped bmp without the extra winzip info.

It is possible to create pixel compression algorithms that are lossless. The demos worked perfectly fine for me, and there was no noticable loss. If you zip a .ddi, you beat png filesize with any image.

The slow load, I believe is because he is using dots, or because he is using sync after every column, or because further optimisation is needed.

This image format, could also be very useful if you made a special version, which could only be opened or closed with a plugin using this technique. That way, would be another way for us to keep our images secure. Nobody else would be able to load them

edit:
I would like to see that one which you say is one fifth of the size though!!!

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dark coder
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 21:01
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How is png just a zipped bmp? did you ever try opening a png with winzip?, try looking at the file structure, it's alot more complex than that, and also I doubt any format could beat png, since it loads fast, small file size, lossless image and supports 32bit, I don't see myself switching anytime soon.

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Airslide
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 01:54
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I agree with Dark Coder, PNG has got to be more than a compressed bitmap, for one it has support for transparency.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 11:51
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The reason it does not open with winzip, is because it contains no file structor and no other extra winzip info. The algorithm is also slightly different to evade copyright issues, but works using the same principle.

Bitmaps (32 bit) already have space for a transparency byte, it is just not used. Every fourth byte in the bmp data is 00000000.

In a png, it is not reserved, and that free byte is used for alpha values.

Also, 'beating' png depends on what aspect you are better at it. If the compression is better, but it has slower loading times etc. It still 'beats' pngs, at being faster to download, but pngs still 'beat' it at having a faster load time.

He did not say that his file format would be better than pngs, in everything
He said that certain aspects of his file format could be better than pngs.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 13:11
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PNG is not exactly a compressed bitmap, but isnt too far off, the only extra data it has is a couple of headers, palette data, chunks and CRC data for network transfer. The reason why winzip manages to compress some images better is because png uses zlib for compression, which is slightly less good at compression, but an awful lot faster, which is what's required in games. Also, I find it very difficult to believe that you can make anything a lot smaller than an OPTIMISED png, do a search for pngtool, run a png through that and see the size difference.

Nephin Games
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 05:51
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Quote: "Quote: "Did he ever say he was going to make a better image format than PNG or DDS?"

Quote: "sorry guys I havent worked on Pixture in a while. right now Im working on image file compression that will someday be the new standard and finally replace JPEGs"
"


Sorry my bad.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Hoozer
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 12:13 Edited at: 5th Dec 2006 14:15
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@ Classic Evil:
I also had crashes with the demos:

Demo-1, CrashOn.txt:


Demo-2, CrashOn.txt:


Demo-3, CrashOn.txt:


Maybe that helps identifying what's going wrong! (Might be a problem with NVidia-Cards, cause I have one!)

Before it crashed, the visible pictures looked like the results shown by "dark coder"!


Good luck with your project!

Hoozer

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Kentaree
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 12:18
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Not nVidia cards, it crashed on my Ati too

Nephin Games
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