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Geek Culture / Anyone tried Vista?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 19:19
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I just want to know what people think of it, I want an opinion, simply because I am dreading the idea that it could be another thing I'll frown upon, Mac has been mighty tempting, but for what I do and what I need, but keeping with the times, XP will die and Vista will be in charge of all things MS, but I've had terrible experience as far a as XP goes, it has been a real stress to work with, 98 was okay for a while and 95 was good. Now I have mastered pretty much managing my Window's system into performing (although I should have that hassle), be even still it annoys me, I mean its all simple matters of performance and how things like your ram, I've got enough ram, and it shouldn't be a problem when using XP, I mean I'm running the optimal settings for performance and I still have issues.

So I want to know what people make of Vista, any opinions, how much better than XP is it, have Microsoft optimised the usage of ram better? (although hearing of a 512 mb ram requirement) what is your overall experience and anything anyone wishes to mention as long as its in reason and doesn't start arguments. My next computer will have 1 gb of ram, now seeing my computer has issues running application within its limit of ram, I would assume Vista would be using a lot of ram, meaning if I were to say run the new Rainbox 6 on it, there I would need a bit more ram to run it properly?

Thanks.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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The dude guy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 20:06
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As far as gaming goes, I think we're not going to have a choice as PC gamers, Direct X 10 looks extremely impressive to me and it's only on Vista, which leaves XP users/gamers behind
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JerBil
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 20:11
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I have used Vista RC1 for a while with a
Gateway GT5032 MCE (WinXP Pro)/ 1 gig ram.

While I really like Vista, I have gone back to
WinXP till the final version is out in January
cause it wouldn't work with all my programs.

Vista is really into security, and that takes
some getting used to. For instance, if your DBP
game you're working on won't run, Vista will
interrupt and ask if it can search for a solution.

Since you have made a mistake in the program, that's
just weird. Maybe not so funny after the tenth time,
though. Also, it will make you "give" it permission
when you try to run installers or anything that it
didn't come with and some it did.

I guess that action can be changed somewhere, but I
never found out where.

You want to get a video card that can handle Vista. At
least that will give you an excuse to buy the best card
you can.

You do not need to get a 8800 card just yet, but if you are thinking of building a new computer in the next year, I would go
for a mobo and psu that can handle the new cards.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 20:45 Edited at: 27th Nov 2006 20:51
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I suppose the whole security thing is to avoid things installing on your HD themselves, as long as it doesn't get in the way too much, I got the same sort of thing with my Firewall, I could tell it to trust the network address and it would be fine from there one. As for getting Vista, I think its already available to msdn subscribers. From the sounds of 'really like' Vista is something positive, even if security may get in the way.

As for my new computer, I think it should be fine, the details are;
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
1 GB ram DDR 2 (2x 512)
GeForce 7950GT 512MB PCI-E
With Software Upgrade XP Home with Vista.
Mother board - 3 PCI, 1 PCI x16 exp,2x PCI Exp x 1, up to 8 gb ram.

As for Direct X 10, it is annoying yes, I mean I wanted to check out some of the Direct X SDK samples that use DX 10, they looked good, but shame.

For installing Vista RC/Vista Demo (if there is one) would that mean I'd have to remove XP, I'm afraid on this system I'm not allowed to partition the HD.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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John Y
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 21:25
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Quote: "For installing Vista RC/Vista Demo (if there is one) would that mean I'd have to remove XP, I'm afraid on this system I'm not allowed to partition the HD."


You could install it in a virtual machine. Vmware and Microsoft both have free virtualisation products. However, you can also run a tool which checks to see if your pc is good enough for vista. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/vista

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 22:07
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Cool, thanks for that

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Final Epsilon
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 22:35
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I'm currently running RC1 as my primary OS on a Lenovo T60 and I've been pretty satisfied with it.

True, it does use a fair amount of memory, but my 1 gig so far has been more than enough to keep vista happy. At the moment, I'm only using 72% of my physical memory, and that's even with a bunch of firefox windows and OneNote 2007 open. To me, it feels just as responsive as XP, if not even better.

I do have a few annoyances with vista at the moment though. One major nuisance is when an application is not supported by the Aero windowing system, and the system has to revert back to the basic theme. Another involves problems with docking, but that could just be a problem with my current driverset.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 22:44
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Quote: "I'm only using 72% of my physical memory,"


That sounds like a lot considering what I was expecting, but then ram cost about £25 per 512mb or similar, so I guess overall I'm not screwed as long as I don't mind the extra ram.

as for my current ram performance:

-Total- 256mb
Availible - 33mb...fair enough I'm iTunes, Firefox and VMWare installer, but normally I do get crap results, the best I can achieve on my current system/OS is 120mb, perhaps more if I close explorer, I mean it would need to be if I am able to run Doom 3, Prey and Hitman 4.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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dab
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 23:34
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Yah, I really don't see any difference in Vista (not visually of course) other than the security. I haven't really played with it much, but I personally don't like it. I like the way the new networking works. (MS has changed the layout of it), and I like the LOOKS of the new OS, but It just uses way to much ram. So, basically what has changed to me the most is:

Visuals (Everything Almost)
Security
Networking (Almost complete rehaul)
The Right click on the desktop where you saw properties, is now .. I can't think of it right now. I want to say customize.

Take heed, never take advantage of the things you need, never let your self be overcome by greed. Walk a strigh line, pick up your speed and try. Everyone deserves a piece of the pie By: Shaggy
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 13:49
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Cool, well as long as it doesn't screw me about or download loads of crap/viruses then I'm happy with a future with Vista.

Also with that VM ware program, I doubt I'd get Vista running on it, simply because it is even slow with KDE SUSE Linux.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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John Y
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 17:55
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Quote: "Total- 256mb"

Quote: "Also with that VM ware program, I doubt I'd get Vista running on it, simply because it is even slow with KDE SUSE Linux."


If you only have 256Mb RAM then you can't run Vista anyway, it likes a 1Gb to run in my experience.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 18:28
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1gb would be the minimum in my opinion. You'll use 400-600mb just to run the stupid OS.

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Sly D
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 20:22
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Quote: ""No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer.""




Relax, I understand j00!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 21:23
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Quote: "Quote: ""No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer."""


Guessing, something Bill Gates said in the 80's?

Quote: "If you only have 256Mb RAM then you can't run Vista anyway, it likes a 1Gb to run in my experience."


Fair enough, but my new system will be 1gb

Quote: "You'll use 400-600mb just to run the stupid OS."


Damn, that's a lot, Microsoft don't consider those people who need ram, but are on a budget, those being students.

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 05:50
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Quote: "download loads of crap/viruses "


Windows doesn't download viruses--- people download viruses and expect Windows to cope.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 13:45
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Well I get a lot of crap on my computer, even thought I just really look at game dev related things, I download them crap and viruses, but not knowing,

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Baggers
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 13:51
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Just recently had a play with the final relase of Vista (work has it). On out 3.4ghz dual core machine with 2gig o' RAM 400meg of the ram was used while the system was IDLING...and one of the cores was humming at 15%...doing what?...renedering windows?...managed to get it near freezing with 7 windows up and running.

Yeah I need a super computer and i'll wait for a service pak to be relased before I think about moving.

Must admit it is very pretty!...oh and the sound drivers fixed a bug we had with our machine so Oblivian works groovily now.

M.I.A is pending
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IanM
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 14:19
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Ignore the % memory used - Vista (finally!) uses unused memory as disk cache, so memory usage should always be high

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Osiris
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 07:01
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Quote: "RAM 400meg of the ram was used while the system was IDLING...and one of the cores was humming at 15%...doing what?...renedering windows?...managed to get it near freezing with 7 windows up and running.
"


Lol, wow, good thing I didn't download that...

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indi
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 07:06
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It will be a good year before a large company even thinks of changing every node to Vista.
I think i will buy into the rebate in jan but have XP as a backup plan.

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Mike Inel
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 07:20
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Quote: "Fair enough, but my new system will be 1gb"

Quote: "On out 3.4ghz dual core machine with 2gig o' RAM "

Aw, crap! I gotta buy some ram! 512 won't do good for me if i'm gonna use Vista! And I noticed that even if i'm using dual core 3.2 Ghz, I still found my machine slow...

Sorry for being a newb, but what's a disk cache? Is that the one that uses hard disk as ram?

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indi
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 07:31
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yep, another term you might have heard would be virtual memory.
a page of ram data is swapped to the hard drive, this results in a slower computer however but allows for more ram usage.

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Mike Inel
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 07:47
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Ohhhh.... So that's "virtual memory" that always pops out in my screen...
So you mean in Vista, while the machine is running and some problems occured causing the machine to crash/restart/shutdown, you'll have to find the files that Vista left? Or Vista automatically removes it? (Photoshop usually does that, giving our HD some 1-3 gb load of crap without automatically deleting them...)

Btw, what will happen if the HD became full while using virtual memory? Will the machine crash?

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
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Redmotion
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 11:17
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- Vista is too expensive (it's probably double the price it should be) - I could buy a Xbox360 for less and get a much better gaming experience out of the box (even a PS3 is better value.)

- As a result, Piracy will be rife with Vista.

- Vista should run FASTER not slower on older XP based systems. Why? Sustainability. We've yet to know the true environmental cost of throwing away old PC tech. Most of them (say 100mhz and less) end up in groundfill sites in thirdworld countries, poisoning their land and water. (In ten years time the first Athlon XPs will be going to the same place and there'll be millions of the things.)

- Ironically, for the little that the majority do with their computers, eg: write and print letters, surf the internet, play casual games, surely they'd be better off using Linux. Software that can do all this is available now, for NOTHING - legally. It's just IGNORANCE that keeps MS where it is.

- Vista does however, look really nice - as good as a Mac. But it just seems more confusing and more complicated to use than XP - even Explorer needs a video tutorial! It should be simpler.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 12:36
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I think (and hope they've implented) that vista should have the performance options, we all know where all that ram has been thrown into, all those useless little gadgets and fancy interface, I think there should be options where can turn this all off and get your ram back. If Microsoft want to appeal to the professional/gaming market more, they ought to really worry about performance, I mean I found running my XP I find it uninspiring to work with the unpleasantries of bad performance.

I guess with my new comp I'll have to gradually upgrade my ram. I mean its something like £24 for a stick of 512mb, a 1gb stick shouldn't go over the value of that, three of those, won't cost much I hope.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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JimB
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 12:59 Edited at: 30th Nov 2006 13:06
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A quick tip for improving XP performance, by default the Pagefile.sys is placed on the C drive
create a small partition in the region of 4gig to dedicate to the page file.
This partition can be on the C drive but ideally should be on a secondary harddrive.
[href]null[/href]http://www.petri.co.il/pagefile_optimization.htm
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 13:45
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cool, but on this system I'm not allowed to partion my HD, hence I'm using VPC for Linux, but I'll see if I can increase the page file size for performance, thanks.

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