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Geek Culture / Microsoft XNA 1.0 Final released today.

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enablerbr
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 18:18
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http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/XNA/default.aspx

also the creators club is live now. for those interested in XBOX360 coding.
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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 20:05
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I read a review in a magazine the other day, which also had a "Spinning Cube" example. The reviewer basically said it's horrendously difficult to use, and far too difficult to get results, if the commands you require work or are there at all.

He also said if you can make a cube spin, you can do anything!



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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 20:32
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I find it quite the opposite--- very easy to get a spinning cube up and running--- textured even! As for doing anything else substantial, I haven't had the time yet

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Chris K
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 21:39
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I might check it out after the compo...

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 21:46
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The only crappy thing about it right now is if you want to share your 360 game with someone else, they must compile your source and assets themselves to make their own binary. In the future there will be a Pro version of Game Studio where you can sign and submit a compiled binary.

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Chris K
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 21:51
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Wow that is quite a big fault then atm...

I get the sense this is still a kind of testing phase.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Raven
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 23:24
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Quote: "In the future there will be a Pro version of Game Studio where you can sign and submit a compiled binary."


Registered Developers got it in the December 2006 XDK. It's suppose to be available in March for the public.

Quote: "Wow that is quite a big fault then atm..."


Why would you buy the retail version if you could compiled the binaries with the express version? They both have identical access

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VR2
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 00:57
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Ohhh, interesting, I thought this was not out until Jan 07?

Anyway, so does this mean that the 3d "helper" libraries are in there now...ie back in september, to make a spinning wireframe cube I had to hand code a vertex buffer for the geometry - now the equvilent to D3DX is in there? So now we have something like..

Mesh cube = Mesh.Cube(1, 1, 1);

????
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Jeku
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 01:56
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Quote: "Anyway, so does this mean that the 3d "helper" libraries are in there now"


No idea--- I've been doing it on a vertex level-- more control that way. I don't see why they *wouldn't* do a D3DX implementation in there.

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VR2
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 14:23
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@Raven - any idea on the licensing - is the "Express" version (plus the $50 subscription for 360 dev) aimed at the indi developers or is there a low cost option to the full XNA studio product?
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Jeku
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 18:23
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That information hasn't been released yet-- all MS says is they're releasing the Pro version sometimes next year. I would bet Spring, but there is nothing set in stone.

On a side note, I got my spinning cube up and running on the 360 last night--- felt kinda good

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Raven
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 20:49
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Express is likely to be the cheapest option for xbox 360 development. I have no idea what the licensing costs are likely to be though for the full version.

I'm looking forward to using XNA Game Studio, but it requires the new update and annoyingly I'm still having download issues with xbox live.

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VR2
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Posted: 12th Dec 2006 23:49
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Quote: "On a side note, I got my spinning cube up and running on the 360 last night--- felt kinda good "

Nice So, lets see if I have this right.....since the modern age of video game consoles, the only real game development open to joe public was Net Yarozee for the PSX, and that was a C/C++ code warrior affair and expensive to boot (special blue PSX required etc).

And now some 12+ years later, you've used a free Java like language (C#) with a free IDE (C# Express + XNA Express) to write some 3D code to run on a current/next generation console.

So, well done you and well done Microsoft as well
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enablerbr
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 05:27
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maybe M$ choose this path because of the interest in home brew for the XBOX. sept this time around you don't need a modchip. also this does offer the chance for the future of XBOX360, if M$ choose to. to have the ability to do mods,maps or new models for XBOX360 titles. which is something game consoles have lacked. sept maybe FarCrys attempts on XBOX.
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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 06:40
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I don't understand--- why do you keep referring to Microsoft as M$? That makes absolutely no sense in the context of your sentences.

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enablerbr
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 06:43
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i just tend to do M$ instead of microsoft. due to force of habit.
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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 12:32
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Wow I never realised M$ was meant as an insult? If that's what you're getting at...

I've always used it as a regular abbreviation.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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David R
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 18:53
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Why do I have to install the Express version of C#? I already have the Professional Version (as part of the studio) installed, and I fail to see why I need the express version instead of the Pro version

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Raven
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 19:07
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Express and Professional use different compilers that do very different optimisations and such. I don't think it's a big deal given C# Express only takes up 350MB HDD space (35MB for C# itself, no idea what the rest of the space is taken up with.)

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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:49
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@David R - Yah that sucks-- I already had the full version installed as well. It's really irritating, and seems like it's a matter of Microsoft being too lazy to support all the versions of their own products.

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John Y
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 23:22
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I think they will support Visual Studio 2005 in the future. But, as it is also aimed at hobbyists, the free version of Visual Studio seemed like the best platform for an initial launch.

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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 23:29
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It's hard to judge how much there is behind this...

A few developers? A few hundred?

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Raven
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 00:09
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Quote: "It's hard to judge how much there is behind this..."


What do you mean?
Developers, I think it will catch on for anyone wanting to develop for consoles.

This said people who want to play the games, don't need to install the development tools; but subscribe to the service through xbox live. Atleast that's the claim from Microsoft, seems sensible though.

Think about their xbox incubator program, allowed independent developers the chance for 6months to have the XDK and Developer Console. This is basically the same thing but for the xbox 360 generation... at no cost to microsoft now, or providing restricted hardware and software. To me it's quite a clever idea.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 00:48
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Quote: "This said people who want to play the games, don't need to install the development tools; but subscribe to the service through xbox live. Atleast that's the claim from Microsoft, seems sensible though."


Not yet though. At the moment you have to compile the source yourself--- there's no other way to trade code unfortunately. Therefore I'm not letting anyone else try my ports until they allow us to trade binaries.

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Raven
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 02:38
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Well until I get my console system update installed not sure how it's going to work, the current executables aren't compatible with the devkit. How does the compiling work anyway? I've noticed it builds the .exe but no .xex; does it run directly on the xbox 360 after building over ethernet?
Probably incorporates some of the DVD-Emulation system from the devkit no doubt.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 06:24 Edited at: 14th Dec 2006 06:26
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This is how it works.

You go to the XNA Game Launcher from the 360 and select "Connect to PC". The 360 will sit there and query the PC for a build. You then go to Game Studio Express with your project, hit F5 and it will be deployed over your network to the 360 where it will immediately run.

There's absolutely no manual networking involved (at least not for me). The 360 knows your PC by a unique activation code you have to type into GSE.

My point is there isn't a typical executable per se, but this is similar to how it works from a real 360 devkit--- connecting straight to VS.NET and such. It's quite remarkable, and well worth the $49 for 4 months.

EDIT:

If only I didn't lose the source to WordTrix 2.0--- I would port that over ASAP.

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Raven
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 06:43
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yeah figured it was doing it like that, the last beta did something similar only it was the PC that called the XBOX360; and found out it had to be a dev/debug/wired test kit running the october update (so it knew to check the ethernet as well as the USB)

it is pretty cool, is there any sort of downtime (i.e. as the executable is converted to xex?) because I can imagine that the process could take a while to load and store but presumably until you re-compile (i.e. version change) it just runs the stored xex.

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enablerbr
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 13:58
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from the videos i saw. if you change something in the GSE on the pc. it will only send that new change to the XBOX360. recompile i saw looked pretty fast on the XBOX360.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 16:38 Edited at: 14th Dec 2006 16:39
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Quote: "Wow I never realised M$ was meant as an insult? If that's what you're getting at..."

It's not, Microdollar is a completely different company.

Quote: "I've always used it as a regular abbreviation."

Well then you have been referring to a completely different company, through ignorance.

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Chris K
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 18:15
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Sweet aggressive trolling.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 13:12
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Amusing though...

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 20:01
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Just tried Torque Game Builder 30-day trial last night, and got Torque X with it. Let's just say it works beautifully. Whipping up a neat 2D game is pretty easy, and when you deploy it to your 360 it's just--- beautiful. *cries*

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enablerbr
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 23:11
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pity about Torque X is the lack of 3D at this time.
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 00:17
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Yah, totally. But still, the 2D support is amazing, and you can hack your own 3D objects into the 2D engine. What is cool is that you can normal map your 2D objects right out of the box, to make them feel round and detailed--- pretty cool.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 19:46
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With Torque X I hope they release it free with TGE as they did with TGB, I think that would be pretty cool rather than slapping a price tag on like they've done for the upgrade to Torque 1.5, but mind you I would be getting $150 worth of stuff for a measly $50, like a bunch of models, TLK, ShowTool Pro etc.

XNA interests me as well, but I don't see much difference from other SDK's other than the fact you can put it onto an X-Box 360, which without that, I wouldn't see worth paying money for it, as irrlicht is free and the same for Ogre and they're 2 beautiful game engines in my opinion, at least then you can go multiplatform, heck I've seen Irrlicht on Java and mobile phones, and I think someone mentioned console related stuff.

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David R
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 19:57
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Quote: "and I think someone mentioned console related stuff."


Yeah, in the docs somewhere, there's a platform enum for _XBOX for some reason, but kinda cool too

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Benjamin
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 20:27
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Quote: "Sweet aggressive trolling."

Interesting that you think so.

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enablerbr
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Posted: 17th Dec 2006 15:16
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Jeku do you own DGDK.NET. if so have you tried seeing if it can go hand in hand with XNA. like DGDK.NET on an XBOX360?
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Dec 2006 23:38
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Yes I own it, but unless I had the source to the original DGDK, there's no way I can see to make it compatible with XNA. One would have to make it from scratch I presume.

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