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Geek Culture / Hello everyone

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Dabz
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 21:36
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Okay, this is my first post, and I'd just like to say hiya!

I'm originally from the Blitz Basic part of town, and I started a thread there about the Dark Basic language:-

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=65583

Amazingly, the majority of the thread wasnt biased, or anything, and there was some good stuff posted, with the odd comment from known fanboys.

Though Gabriel (You may know him as sybliux, or whatever he used to call himself) pointed out the the information in the thread was old, and DarkBasic has come on leaps and bounds. Now I see Gabriel as an experienced and mature programmer who doesnt mind telling it how it is, because what he usually says is 'how it is'.

I've been programming in Blitz for 5 years now, and have been though a bit too!

Sadly though, BlitzBasic as we know it seems to have hit the rocks a little, many coders over there have either moved on, or use BlitzMax with another 3D Engine, since Mark has stated that the Max3D module has been written, scrapped, written again, and scrapped again, and no spcific ball park date when it'll be released!

Now I've programmed in nearly all Blitz languages, but BlitzMax for me/ and a few others, has been a right let-down... Granted the language is okay, and OOP is a nice feature of BlitzMax, though, it's all packaged up in a crappy IDE, horrible docs... It's just a mess IMO!

As well as the moderation rules over there (If you visit BB.COM, you'll know), It's supposed to be about IT only, though, me and a few others have noticed that that skidracer has his faves, and he leaves non-tech threads from his bunch of merry men alone, yet other get deleted!

He recently closed a thread from one of my mates over there for cursing, even though he cursed like this 'B*$%@£$', it got deleted, yet, threads are being posted now with worse, and he just lets them go!!!!

Now, me and a few others have set up shop here (www.syntaxbomb.com) which is a nifty little site, but the community is small... Most of them here (Kuron and Red October especially) dont even program in Blitz no more, simply because of the way they have been treated at BRL...

I personally need to move on, DirectX in Blitz is stuck at version 7, with no chance in the foreseeable future of actually been updated.

I've done some research, and DarkBasic is at DirectX9 (Am I correct in this), with Vista round the corner, it will be a real plus to program with DirectX10 in there!

All I'm asking, at this moment, is DarkBasic worth the hardship of learning, as I've noticed (while playing with the demo) that the syntax, IMO, is a little iffy!

Does it take much to break away from traditional BASIC languages like Blitz to the more complicated form, such as DB... I also know it's complicated for a reason, I mean, you cannot muck about with shaders etc etc and expect it to be a breeze!

Thanks for your time, your opinions will be greatly appreciated!

Dabz
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Chris K
21
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Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 21:59
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You'll find DBPro (Pro is the only version worth mentioning nowadays), a lot easier to use than Blitz probably.

Shaders are quite tricky to do, yeah, but the community has put together some awesome examples, stuffed together in The Ultimate Shader Pack, which can help you learn.

We've also got an awesome compo on at the moment, sponsored by nVidia, that is based around shaders - so a load of us are trying to get out heads around them at the moment.

Previously there was basically two guys who knew how to use shaders, now there are loads

Check out some current projects!

Claymore Island is pretty cool... (Also check out Pump!, in the nVidia board )

Welcome to Apollo!

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 22:13
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Welcome to the forums. You will find DBPro very useful in your 3D game making, you have a good community before you for helping you to develop your game making skills with user made tools and code snippets laying around to give you a helping hand. As you would expect in a large community, you do get your flamers, but ignore them, as the majority do. With all of those Direct X 9 capabilities, such as the use of shaders, it should be a good step for you, not forgetting to mention the potential for Dark Basic X10 (For Vista and Direct X 10) as Lee has already announce his success on FPSCreator X10 at the nVidia geforce 8800 convention.

If you want to get your hands on some awesome shaders, check out the stickied thread 'Ultimate Shader Pack' in the 'Work in Progress Section'.

Also, check out the nVidia board, there is a lot of good games being made there, heck see if you can have an entry made in time, there's a big prize if you want to try your hands at grabbing it Check out Chris' Pump, as he has said, its a good demonstration of what you can do with Water and Bloom shaders. There are other great entry's such as 'The Don' and Mike Inel's entry and mine of course, (Shadow Behind the Leaves)


Hope you enjoy your stay here and hope you find what you need in Dark Basic/Dark Basic Pro.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Ron Erickson
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21
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Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 22:17
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Dabz,

Hello and welcome! I was reading your thread on Blitz's site before you posted the link here.
You probably won't like DBpro's syntax as much as the Blitz sytax. In general, Blitz's commands are layed out much better. Plus, since you are already used to Blitz's syntax, it is always awkward switching. If you can get past that though, I think you will be very happy with DBpro. One thing that I saw posted in the Blitz thread was that DBpro was randomly unstable. That is definately not true (at least anymore!). You just have to make sure that you have the correct version of DirectX and good video drivers. If so, you will be just fine.

This is a good community and people are always willing to help. Good luck!

-Ron

EZrotate! TextureMax! Enhanced Animations! (coming soon....) 3D Character Maker! (coming soon....)
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Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 22:31 Edited at: 11th Dec 2006 22:33
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Hello and welcome.

I second what Wolf said. Those that claim DBP is unstable and buggy are talking from ancient experience. Nowadays, DBP is very stable. There are still some bugs or issues at the top end of game development, such as transparency combination/layering and other things 95% of game developers will never be aware of (which is one reason why they're still there), but overall its now very solid. It's also improved in speed dramatically, although it has one fundamental flaw you should be aware of: deleting objects is very slow due to how the vertex buffers are designed (I believe), so you need to think about reuse of objects within DBP. Apart from that, it's now very quick.

Also, as has been said already, the syntax is a bit rubbish, but it is a basic language. It's not difficult or confusing at all, it's just not as nice as a c based language, for example. Once you get over that, it's not a hurdle at all.

One of DBPs still onrunning faults is its documentation. It's still a mockery really, with very little help on what the arguments are for commands that are potentially very confusing. You'll need to spend time on these forums and looking at existing posts to get the full picture.

Check out our WiP and finished project sections to see what people are putting together. There're some good looking games, running very quickly and bug free.

Edit: Also, on the subject of forums, yeah the forums here are great and easy going. I can't stand that sort of censorship you've described. I've left a few websites for that reason. There's no need for it.


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Dabz
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 11th Dec 2006 22:33
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Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

I've been looking at the syntax of DB, and with a bit of patience over the christmas holidays, I will probably be able to swing my head round it.

I'm going to print some stuff out and sit and read it, hopefully, DB's logic will come to me, then I'll probably do what I did when I first used Blitz... make a pong game!

Start small and basic, thats the best advice I was ever given in programming!

Dabz
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Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
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Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 12th Dec 2006 01:09
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Hi Dabz - I won't repeat the great advice people have already given you here, but I will add this - do check out our newsletters, especially the back issues. There are some extremely good tutorial published every issue from the likes of Grant, Steve and Lee, which cover everything from funky special effects to game design. Go through the back issues and download the code as there's an absolute mass of it which should help a lot.

Heavy on the Magick
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Darth Vader
19
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Joined: 10th May 2005
Location: Adelaide SA, I am the only DB user here!
Posted: 12th Dec 2006 10:14
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Agreed Rich! There is a three part tutorial series there on making a FPS game with collision, AI and more! Its called something like making huge landscapes I think.
Welcome to Dark Basic and TGC!


http://ideal-entertainment.galekus.com
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HandK
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Joined: 24th Jun 2006
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 14:17
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Quote: "There is a three part tutorial series there on making a FPS game with collision, AI and more"
There is also FPSC, with FULL souce. So....

Hi Dabz

H&K
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Dabz
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 18:08
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Well, I was going to have a pop at openGL, but one of the fan boys over there has really done my nut in!

Now I'm more determined to have a pop at DarkBasic then ever before... Read the bottom of the thread, Dark Elf's the idiot.. Mr toad was only pointing out how far DarkBasic has come on, and next thing I know, it gets nasty!

Still, BB can keep him, I mean, what does he know about the difference between Blitz and DarkBasic, especially with a code archive like this:-

http://www.blitzbasic.com/codearcs/usercode.php?user=1714

I mean, anyone with at least two brain cells could code that! :/

So who is he to preach! Grrrr

Dabz

P.S. Sorry for the rant!
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Dabz
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 18:09
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Oh, missed you there H&K, nice to see you!

Dabz
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El Goorf
18
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Joined: 17th Sep 2006
Location: Uni: Manchester, Home: Dunstable
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 21:40 Edited at: 13th Dec 2006 21:41
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Welcome to the darkside...

I like it here. One of the main reasons is the community. Any attempt I've made at getting into pureBASIC has quickly stagnated due to a lack of community to get support and help from. I've also tried joining various c++ communities, but i've never found one quite like this one.

DarkBASIC itself? meh, it aint so bad ^_^ I've rarely felt the urge to move on to other languages apart from a nagging sense of curiosity. I seem to be able to do anything I want with DarkBASIC. an areas where it's lacking I find a challenge rather than irritation, and i've worked in many areas, from mundane basics such as file handling and networking to far more interesting and fun things such as fractal patterns for making random images and world-terrains, and also various forms of AI.

however, just one thing:

Quote: "As well as the moderation rules over there (If you visit BB.COM, you'll know), It's supposed to be about IT only, though, me and a few others have noticed that that skidracer has his faves, and he leaves non-tech threads from his bunch of merry men alone, yet other get deleted!

He recently closed a thread from one of my mates over there for cursing, even though he cursed like this 'B*$%@£$', it got deleted, yet, threads are being posted now with worse, and he just lets them go!!!!"


you'll be needing this:



its an indi-repellant.
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Chris K
21
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Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:07
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I just read that BB forum thread.

The things I noticed are:

- That forum sucks
- People aren't very nice to each other

I think it tells much that we're generally not bothered about Blitz, but they seem to get very worked up about DBPro.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Peter H
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Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:22 Edited at: 13th Dec 2006 22:25
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welcome!

like fallout said, don't EVER delete an object during the real time part of your game... (reloads the entire vertex buffer i think) that's really the only hidden performance problem... everything else should become apparent as you go.

my eyes and brain hurt after reading that thread though

Quote: "I think it tells much that we're generally not bothered about Blitz, but they seem to get very worked up about DBPro."

lol, that's what i was thinking when somebody on that thread mentioned that there had been countless DB vs BB threads... i was thinking "wait... i can only remember 2 or 3 in the last year or two..."

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:47
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Good thing Dark side didn't post here, I'd have my mind to express, which would lock the thread, because I would be arguing. For one thing, I don't like fanboys what-so-ever, they're blunt close minded prats.

Looking at the Blitz site, you guys have one crazy community, we do have our nutters, but they leave soon after they start, either because they end up being banned, get outsmarted or just can't receive the crap they give out.

Your (I'll refrain from using the word buddy) nutter there, thinks he had been screwed over and is boycotting DB...what load of boll***s, bad experience with an internet company and/or customer services isn't being screwed over or being scammed, by his mindset, my sister got screwed over by Ebuyer, my brother got screwed over by GAME, whereas I've had awesome experience with them and by his standards they should boy cott it, even if it is years after and they suddenly become so much more successful with amazing products to offer that are putting themselves up market more...

So I found him to be amusing, but it is his loss, he will lose out because he holds grudges and has that fan-boy attitude.

You'll be glad to know, the mods do not stand for those kind of people and either silence their bad attitude or removed them before they can do harm.



Also, Lee Bamber surfs these forums occasionally, I'd love to see how he reacts if he follows that links and sees those insults.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Dabz
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:51
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Well, I've printed the FPS tutorial out, I'm going to make a start with that!

Chris, you've hit it right on the head about the other forum, thats why me and a few others went to syntaxbomb. It's nice over there!

Hopefully, I'll now spend many a happy year posting here!

Thanks for making me feel welcome you lot, it's appreciated!

Dabz
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Kohaku
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Joined: 3rd May 2004
Location: The not very United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 23:13
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Hey buddy. Welcome to something something.

Have funz0rz.


You are not alone.
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indi
22
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 13th Dec 2006 23:35
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welcome dabz, what game are you designing?

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Dabz
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Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 14th Dec 2006 00:53
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Well in Blitz, I got pretty far with an online texas hold'em game, I had all the hand checking stuff sorted, as well as finding the winner out of all the hands.

Heres my worklog:-
http://www.syntaxbomb.com/forum/index.php?topic=140.0

It is now a client/server hybrid application and I started to get into the swing of programming net code, it was going really well,though, I'll either scrap that now since I've moved on, or at some point in the future, convert into DarkBasic?

At the moment I'm just going to look through the wealth of tutorials here, I'm not really clued up on 3D, so it might be a good idea to start a fresh in terms of language and 3D. I've got plenty of time, since I'm taking three weeks off work for christmas.

When I'm confident with the basics of DB (as well as 3D), I'll make an attempt at a basic game, maybe a 3D tetris, columns clone, something along them lines, as I've built these in Blitz, so I already know how they work!

I'm the sort of programmer that wouldnt try anything unless I was at least half confident I could do it, lol, it's a waste of time otherwise!

That FPS Tutorial should keep me busy for now though...

Dabz
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Kohaku
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 01:12 Edited at: 14th Dec 2006 01:12
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I've just read through that thread, only meaning to glance through it but I got hooked.

I have to credit Toady for giving a great defence of DBP there while defending himself without resorting to any visible attacks - unlike a certain duck - though still being told to shut up really. Go you!

Both languages are certainly great in their own individual ways. I don't see why some people choose to be so moronic about it, but then, it makes for interesting reading.


You are not alone.
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The crazy
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Location: Behind you
Posted: 14th Dec 2006 15:57
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*Nods in acknowledgement*

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Dabz
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Location: Durham, UK
Posted: 14th Dec 2006 16:35
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To be honest, I've started the FPS tutorial and the language doesnt seem to hard to follow!

The Intersect Object command seems a bit of a monster, but I've got my head round it and it seems like a very handy command to have!

I'm very pleased with the progress I'm making, and I've only been at it a day! lol

Dabz
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dark donkey
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 21:00
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i look at the bb forum once ina while, some one said that he was making a vista version of blitz plus which would handle 3d, but i dient quit trust the post beacouse it was made a member of the comunity in another post asking how to make his ball in pong move. Any was have a nice stay here.

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