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Geek Culture / Games we never want to see.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:09
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In this age of a million clones or offshoots of various games, I began to think of variations I would never want to see and thought I would share one. Feel free to add to the list.

Interpretive Dance Dance Revolution.
All those arrows, they're just suggestions, dance however you want and get judged on how off the wall you are. Geez this game is annoying enough when people follow a pattern imagine if they could just go all out.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:23
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Crazy Frog Racer-

Damn that evil little frog, heck I will not insult evil, because such evil people although deserving of foulness, do not deserve to be compared to that thing. Lets just say, the less chav culture, the better, I don't mind people having fun, but a chav's idea of fun is knifing you.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Siolis
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:27
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I personally never wanted to see the entire FPS genera. I don’t get how you expect to emulate the act of being armed with a deadly weapon and expected to kill people while they try to do the same to you by sticking a weapon barrel at the base of the screen, adding a crosshair and a HUD with information which would be very important to a man wielding a gun in a fire fight such as how many more he can take to the head, gut and other places before he will eventually die and how many bullets are left in the concealed clip at the base of his gun without being able to actually see in or though the clip nor any kind of on-weapon indictor AND not allowing full vertical three hundred and sixty degree head movement so you can actually run forward, look left and shoot backwards all at once.

I expect I will receive some bitching about views now but I wont be answering them, fyi because I’m happy with my views and there’s not really anything you can say to change my mind.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
"Look you son of a suitcase..." - Rinchwind yelling at the Luggage in The Light Fantastic
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:35
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Paris Hilton Vomit Comet... a flight sim where you're a passenger and she's the pilot. You have to eat as many peanuts as possible before the plane explodes.







Okay fine, so I'd buy it.





Okay fine, so maybe I'm thinking about making it now.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:40
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Quote: "Okay fine, so I'd buy it."


I would too, I'd lose though, simply because I have the power over Paris Hilton's life and would choose to end it every time possible

@Siolis, the whole thing people like with scary things suddenly appearing and testing your reaction speeds and trying to make you jump is why some people (like me) play FPS games, a good FPS game is one that can do that. But mindless killing FPS's, or those in general, no point to them, bloody stupid, like I was saying to someone playing an online game that does that.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Siolis
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:53
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If I wanted my reaction speed testing I would get on my bike and go play in traffic (which I sometimes do btw) or just play some SSX or NFS underground or hell Devil May Cry 3 tests you reaction speed just trying to remember what freaking buttons to hit and which way to go next without being killed brutally and they all have better control systems and more logic to them including one where your a freaking half devil.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
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Kentaree
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 23:57
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I quite like FPSs, we play CoD2 on the XBox360 at lunchtime, it's quite satisfying being able to shoot your boss in the face sometimes

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:03 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 00:04
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@Siolis: I agree with some of your views, but not the fact that the entire FPS genre is a stupid idea. Some people find things like that fun (just like in real life, like paintball and airsoft, which I like), because it's a game, it's just the same reasons as people find other games like football or a board game fun. And, no, just because you play FPS' doesn't mean you'd think it'd be fun to square off with someone with a gun and see who dies first, just the same way that just because you like racing in NFS doesn't mean you'd do it in real life. It's a simulation .

On another note, I do agree with you that FPS' should be more immersive and realistic (as you don't have to be hit 2 times in the head, five in the chest, ten in the arms, etc. to die, and there not being a nice little counter at the bottom telling you how many rounds you have left), which is why if I ever create an FPS, it will include, or be more realistic, in those features .

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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:06
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I disagree. Some shooters are made to be realistic, where other's aren't, it all depends on the genre. Can you imagine Unreal Tournament with ultra-realistic physics, and full historical and visual accuracy? Everything is relative.

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Siolis
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:21
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Quote: "I quite like FPSs, we play CoD2 on the XBox360 at lunchtime, it's quite satisfying being able to shoot your boss in the face sometimes"


True but you can shoot your boss in 3RD person too which I love as a perspective into a virtual world.

Quote: "@Siolis: I agree with some of your views, but not the fact that the entire FPS genre is a stupid idea. Some people find things like that fun (just like in real life, like paintball and airsoft, which I like), because it's a game, it's just the same reasons as people find other games like football or a board game fun. And, no, just because you play FPS' doesn't mean you'd think it'd be fun to square off with someone with a gun and see who dies first, just the same way that just because you like racing in NFS doesn't mean you'd do it in real life. It's a simulation.

On another note, I do agree with you that FPS' should be more immersive and realistic (as you don't have to be hit 2 times in the head, five in the chest, ten in the arms, etc. to die, and there not being a nice little counter at the bottom telling you how many rounds you have left), which is why if I ever create an FPS, it will include, or be more realistic, in those features ."


I don’t think FPS's are a stupid genera, I think the perspective is totally stupid. If you made those games with a 3RD person view like Ratchet and Clank I wouldn’t say anything and would be the first in line to purchase them. Its things I mentioned to do with the perspective and HUD which gets on my tits, not the fact that someone’s made a game of shooting the place and people up. I can think of nothing better than Black for the PC done in third person.

No game should be made ultra-realistic if you ask me. I want a game to play and a world I could never see otherwise. I like to see something in what I’m playing which my brain registers as fake so it feels like escapism rather than just a new set of rules for reality because if suddenly I found myself faced with aliens and firearms for doing them in I would simply adjust like I do with anything else. I know this by my transition between my family home university; it wasn’t hard to understand or do, just different to what I’m used to.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:29
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Siolis, your views are misguided lunacy.

Now I refer you to ...

Quote: "I expect I will receive some bitching about views now but I wont be answering them, fyi because I’m happy with my views and there’s not really anything you can say to change my mind."




I personally would never like to see "My Little Pony Stable Simulator" made. I can't think of anything more disturbing.


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Siolis
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:34
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Well that’s ok then, it sits well from a brain going in erratic circles which also happens to be insane so I guess my views must be the right product of such a mind which means they in themselves must be right.

Heh, I was wondering how long before i read that.

I guess i should rephrase that my views wont be altered by anyone’s argument but I will argue back at length until i tire of the subject and start ignoring the comments made.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
"Look you son of a suitcase..." - Rinchwind yelling at the Luggage in The Light Fantastic
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:41
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Well, we're not going to change your mind, but only attempt to enlighten you on why people like FPS games, a FPS wouldn't have the same effect if they were 3rd person, if you're going to have a nasty attack out of nowhere, then its not going to help getting your aim on the enemy with a dude in the way as different controls, third person shooters aren't meant for fast paced scaring.

Quote: "If I wanted my reaction speed testing I would get on my bike and go play in traffic (which I sometimes do btw) or just play some SSX or NFS underground or hell Devil May Cry 3 tests you reaction speed just trying to remember what freaking buttons to hit and which way to go next without being killed brutally and they all have better control systems and more logic to them including one where your a freaking half devil."


Likewise I could race someone on a field, if I wanted to test play with my racing competitive skills, read a book if I want a good plot line, but I still play racing and roleplaying games. People play games because they enjoy them, following the thrills they don't normally do in real life, if an FPS game makes them happy, then there is a point to them. You may not like them, fair enough, my comment there was just to explain why I like FPS games despite your views, there was no argument to be made.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Siolis
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 01:26
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Well, agree to disagree then and i still think there stupid.

Moving on:

Mary Kate and Ashley: Magical Mystery Mall

Wrong burned to a disc.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
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APEXnow
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 01:39
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Using all of the advanced 3D shader technology, 5.1 Surround sound, 78" Flat panel Plasma screen with a Wiimote.. only to find I'm playing Tetris!

Paul.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 01:51
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Personally I don't like 3rd person in really any games (platformers like Ratchet and Clank and RTS's being exceptions), if it has that option, then I use it, it makes it more immersive and a better experience for me if you don't have a character model blocking the bottom fourth of the screen with a clunky crosshair of some sort .

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 01:52
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Ouch, very good point Paul. It's sad but it seems like a lot of this new technology is spent on making the games prettier, but not necessarily better Something should be done about that.

I personally love FPS games. That's not to say they're better than any other genre... they're just my personal favorite. Especially older FPS games like BF42, which I still play everyday in a borderline-religious manner . I think there's still a lot of ingenuity and brilliant new ways that game developers could maximize the potential of the genre, but it doesn't seem they're doing it. I'm sure Halo is great and all, but what's it doing that hasn't been done before? I think the FPS genre needs some new innovation, but otherwise it's a fantastic genre and while I can't say it's better than any other genre, I definitely can't say it's worse either.


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The crazy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 01:58
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Siolis, if you want a game to test your reflexes, ddr is the way to go. The downside is you have to actually get good at it in order to to the fun stuff.

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Siolis
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 02:01
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I hate Tetris, didn’t on the GB but do now but that’s not a game which shouldn’t have been made because it is in essence brilliant nor is it a bad cross breed.

A Dragons Legacy...a blog by S.R.Deoden
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Raven
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 02:12
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Quote: "I don’t think FPS's are a stupid genera, I think the perspective is totally stupid. If you made those games with a 3RD person view like Ratchet and Clank I wouldn’t say anything and would be the first in line to purchase them."


You mean Gears of War, Kill.Switch or Battlefront II?

the last one can be play in either 3rd Person or 1st Person allowing it to adapt to the player, although personally I prefer it in 3rd as it's easier given the sheer open terrain design.

honestly I love all shooter games, provided they give me a sense of storyline with gameplay. Games in the FPS/TPS genre I can't stand are Black, Serious Sam, Ghost Recon Advanced Warrior (potencially good game ruined by over complexity and truely horrible control sync rates)

Some of my favourite of the genre generally provide the gamer with more in terms of playability but often don't provide gamers with that "freedom" or "realism" that is often hyped. In-fact when it comes to FPS/TPS I prefer the gameplay to be much easier and simpler.

Gears of War, Perfect Dark Zero, Halo 2, Battlefront 2, Doom 3 and Kill.Switch are by far the top games in this category.

None of these games really tried to revolutionise the genre in any way. Sure Kill.Switch introduced the whole "Cover System", however once you get used to how it works you find that many other aspects (i.e. huge weapon selections, jumping, etc. have been sacrified in order to provide this system without complications)

Quote: "Well, agree to disagree then and i still think there stupid."


Everyone is welcome to their own opinion; just because you think that FPS are stupid, doesn't mean everyone else has to either. I've not really seen you put much of an argument behind why you think they're so bad either.
User-Interface Systems change dramatically between games, and having your health on-screen doesn't automatically mean that this game no longer provide realism...

Gears of War, Halo-Series and Call of Duty 2 for example have no traditional "health bar", instead you can get hit a number of times consecutively until a given damage is reached (calculated by where shots hit) over time your damage disappears meaning you can then plod on without any need for a "medic" or "medipack"

Doom 3 incorporates a system that shows your weapons ammo on the weapon itself not just on-screen, which is editable to have it turned off.

Ghost Recon Advance Warrior, uses a pin-point damage system that allows you to tell at a glance how good your body armour is doing and if you have any current gunshot wounds.

I mean often game developers choose many aspects of the games based on how they want them to feel; rather than making all of them ultra realistic. Given most of the time you're thrown in to a fantasy universe killing aliens or such.. then honestly how real do you believe they can make them.

As for the view, a number of games like Doom 3, and Battlefront 2 provide a way to swap between your prefered view style. Games are suppose to be enjoyable, however the developer chooses to do this can make a serious difference. I can't imagine what Rainbow Six would be like if it had a 3rd person view.. honestly I believe it would totally ruin the game experience.

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Steve J
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 02:19
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I was going to say a 50 cent game, but since thats already out I would have to say another game like gta.

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Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 02:20
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Quote: "Using all of the advanced 3D shader technology, 5.1 Surround sound, 78" Flat panel Plasma screen with a Wiimote.. only to find I'm playing Tetris!
"


You should play Hardcore Tetris!!!

I never want to see another game based off of movies that don't deserve them. Like they made a video game out of "Charlates Web" that just doesn't work. I wan't to know what drunk/druggie thought up the idea for "The Cat In The Hat" movie. If that wasn't bad enough, they made a video game out of that stupid film!

"If it weren't for monsoor here, this town wouldn't be here, and that kid would never grow up to lie about texas!"
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Mr Tank
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 03:20
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I don't get it. It seems this guys hates FPS games for being realistic, and also hates them for being not realistic.

Whilst i understand that someone might reasonably dislike certain conventions and cliches, such as the generic HUD, this isn't a valid reason to hate the genre. Some games even innovate a bit- for instance HALO, where you can only carry a couple of guns at a time, and can't aim your weapon when sprinting.

Every genre has it's annoying and lazy cliches. For instance fighting games with dial-a-air-combos, or platformers with double jumping. This doesn't mean that every game is bound to have them, or is bound to be crap. In fact, sometimes it is nice to have a game with familiar and well tested, identikit control and gameplay mechanics- so you can get right into enjoying the other stuff in the game.

It seems you dislike the narrow view- but you get the same thing with a 3rd person camera- unless you count being able to see the bit of ground immediately behind your guy.

The great thing about the first person view is that you see the line of sight of your guy, which is basically the line of fire of the gun. There is no annoying camera trying to figure out what you should be seeing- you point at what you want to look at, and you know what you're aiming at.

As far as hating the way how "it trys to be all realistic, but you can't move your head one way and run the other and shoot in another direction so why bother at all"- WTF? How exactly would you accomplish this? The first person view isn't supposed to be 100% like real life, it is an approximiation. I can't think of a better one.


You'll be able to click on this someday.
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Gamedesign er20
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 03:44 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 03:45
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Quote: "I wan't to know what drunk/druggie thought up the idea for "The Cat In The Hat" movie. If that wasn't bad enough, they made a video game out of that stupid film!"


If you think that's bad, take a look at this http://www.gamespot.com/ds/action/marchofthepenguins/index.html
How can you base a game on a documentary?

Cocacola and Pepsi aren't that differnt. Deal with it.
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Steve J
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 04:01
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haha

Happiness is like peeing your pants.
Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 04:09
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Quote: "By: DSI Games
Genre: Action
Release Date: Nov 27, 2006
Players: 1 Player (tech info) "


Do you suppose that 1 player is number of people that can play at a time or the number of people that actually got the game

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 04:46
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Siolis, if your going to make an argument, make it a good one, and don't just keep going in circles, saying you don't like it because it's not realistic, but at the same time it's too realistic. And while we're on the topic of realism, think how "realistic" Ratchet and Clank and other platformers are before criticizing another genre for being unrealistic (or too realistic, depending which post you look at ). You need to stop being so close-minded and stubborn towards the genre, and whole batch of good video games are in it.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 05:25 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 05:30
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Quote: "I want a game to play and a world I could never see otherwise."

Yes. That's why I don't like WWII games. There's another reason I don't like them also, but stating it is against the AUP.

I honest to g-d hate fps games. Only a small few will I play, them being the HL games for the story (though I completely suck), and Metroid Prime Hunters... I don't know why, but I actually like it and am fairly good at it.

Given a game like oblivion, I would use the 3rd person perspective even if it sucks, just because I hate first person so usually. Still, the HL games could not have the same effect in another genre, I only regret that I suck at them. First person is really useful, but far too overused.

I find something fundamentally wrong with shooting things to solve my problems though. Especially humans. Death is a very powerful idea, and going in and killing everyone for the heck of it doesn't appeal to me. There's just no... Honor, I suppose in most fps games.

I'm much more comfortable in the 3rd person, where I'm distance from heart attack like feelings a massive dose of adrenaline produces. I get my 'fix' though awe and total suspension of disbelief, and unfortunately most fps games while having this, are more about the adrenaline rush than the fineness of the game. That's not to say I don't like getting an adrenaline rush, I just prefer the kind you get from something like sonic much, much more.

I see the fps genre as a whole being overly exhausted, and in much need on a long deserved break overall.

The game I'd like to see the least? A Myst fps. I can find fewer larger insults to Myst than if that ever happened (notice that the Myst games are 1st person adventures, which I don't mind and in many ways like).

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 06:00
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I dunno--- there's something about linear, single-player FPS games with scripted sequences to push the player through the storyline. Just love it to death. The Half-Life's, Halo's and Call of Duty's of the world unite!

Here's a cool game that my buddy is co-developing, and it's sweeping through the IGF award nominations! http://www.bit-blot.com/aquaria/ Haven't tried it out yet but it looks to be amazing.

http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 07:09
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I'd love to see Myst made into an FPS-style game, but without the "shooting" bit of course. The original Myst was one of the first PC games I genuinely fell in love with. Prior to that, I was mostly a console player (with the exception of Sierra's line of awesomeness, like the Quest series of games). The games that really broke me into PC gaming, the ones that made me go out and buy dozens of other games, were Myst, Under a Killing Moon, and Phantasmagoria. Ah, to be a teenager in the early 1990's

For the past few years I've considered making a Myst-style game, taking pictures around the city and turning them into a basic point-click game with puzzles and whatnot. I should think about re-visiting that idea. It was so rediculously simple in design, too... the sort of game that could be made in under a month . I think I gave up on it because I wanted a "ghost town" vibe, but I couldn't find any time of day where there wasn't traffic in the really beautiful parts of the city. Would be fun to make though.


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Grandma
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 08:42
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I still play Doom and Duke Nukem 3D. just love them classics.

But i never want to see games that focus on graphics and ignore gameplay......oh wait, that's >75% of todays games

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 12:34 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 12:36
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Must admit, I don't really get the point a few peeps are making about wanting a fantasy world and something they've not experienced, then refering to WW2 as an example. Remember the Omaha beach landing scene in Medal of Honor? Amazing gameplay moment due to its intensity. None of us were alive in the 40s, on the bloody beaches of Normandy, hiding behind tank traps with thousands of bullets whistling past and comrads dying left and right. That is a fantasy moment for us ... something we can never experience, except for in a game world.

Dismissing it because it's not Sci-Fi or Medieval Fantasy or a Cartoony world is short sighted. It is still something we could never comprehend, perhaps more so than a fantasy environment someone dreams up. You can never seen Omaha beach personally, except the now empty calm sands and the plaques. I personally look on events such as D-Day with awe, in both a positive and negative way, and the chance to play that out in a game, to just get the slightest feel for what it might've been like ... that's more powerful and involving than someone trying to immerse me in the world of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Even if the WW2 genre has been done time and time again, I will always play good WW2 games because, IMO, nobody will ever dream up a scenario with more atrocity, fear, excitement and adventure, on such a massive scale, with so much power that is believable. You cannot relate to the covert missions, bloody fire-fights, pilot aces etc etc. You are computer geeks stuck behind computers in the comfort of your homes. That world is a fantasy world to us, but backed by a very rich and detailed history, on such a massive scale. It's personal, yet foriegn, and incredibly indepth yet still unknown to us.

My 2 centages!


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Van B
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 14:35
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Quote: "Remember the Omaha beach landing scene in Medal of Honor?"


I remember it well, but I remember level 2, which offered little more than the original PSX games. A game with that intensity all the way through would be amazing - it feels like your in a war when playing that level, it's about the best WW2 gaming experience yet IMO. It's when things slow down after the initial hype levels that it gets tedious.

Really WW2 is an awesome scenario (as is Vietnam), but the graphical possibilities are endless, that stuff just looks cool. One of my favourite games is BF1942, you have that initial level where your on a aircraft carrier attacking the island, there's planes buzzing about, you can pilot all the vehicles (incl the carrier), and the game sucks you right into the battle - but after that level it maintains the same sort of action, Omaha beach is in there and it's great fun. It's a very dynamic game because your not dragged along the plot, the objectives are simple, and your entitled to handle things for yourself. Having simplified objectives and more freedom throughout a WW2 FPS, and the same graphical input on all levels would equate to a damn good game.

MOH is like American war movies, indeed a lot like Saving Private Ryan, initially it's pure adrenaline that disipates into mellowdrama. Another example is the first Call of Duty game and that Stalingrad mission, that was great fun. That's my point, the technology and ideas are there to make an awesome WW2 action game, yet they can't seem to maintain it for more than 3 levels.

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Raven
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 14:51
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Quote: "I'd love to see Myst made into an FPS-style game, but without the "shooting" bit of course."


Prenumbre - Overture is a very good FPS without shooting, relies on you to utilise the physics of the world to solve puzzles, dispose of enemies or just trap them. Very atmospheric, good graphics and well thought out puzzles.

First you come across requires you to find a jerrycan of petrol to fill up a generator then rewire it in order to bypass the broken part and get it running again. The game continues like this throughout with the puzzles and such getting far more ingenious.. all of which are real-life situations as well, like there is one in the science lab where you have to create a compound that is capable of exploding then setting up a trip wire to kill a boss (in the tech demo no idea if that'll make it into the final game).

Hell there's a bit where you collect 2 parts of a key then have to weld it back together in order to get through a door to continue. Pushing chairs against doors in order to prevent them from being opened.

I think it's by far one of the best FPS games I've played in years and yet with the ironic factor that it has no shooting in it. The game on the whole would honestly just flop in terms of quality and feel, if the player was 3rd person view because you'd constantly feel out of body. Part of what makes it so damn intense and truely terrifying at points is the 1st person camera makes it feel like you're really there and it's happening to you.

The same is true of WW2 FPS games, they would loose so much of the experience if they suddenly became 3rd person. The way the players interact and percieve the world is just as important to set the mood in the game as the art in the world itself.

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 15:18
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@VanB

I agree. I don't remember anything of Medal of Honour, except for the Omaha level. I dont remember much of Call of Duty, except for the Stalingrad level. They're definitely the defining scenes and both ripped from films Saving Private Ryan and Enemy At the Gates respectively. Maybe it takes a great film director to make game set pieces truly great.

However, I dont think its feasible to maintain such a level of ferocity through the whole game. Doom 3, for example, I thought was damn creapy, but its only a matter of time before the initial fascade fades. Then you know what to expect, you remember its just a game, you learn how the monsters work, and it loses its edge. I think it'd be really hard to keep that going constantly.

Besides, those set pieces we mentioned are all scripted so that you only survive if you do a certain thing. As soon as you introduce true freedom (BF1942 style), it becomes really hard to give that level of ferocity without the player dying all the time.

Still, WW2 is great when done well.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 15:21
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@Matt:

A rather good option is to take multiple photographs of a scene with a tripod (with things you don't want moving in the backtground) and then overlap the images in Photoshop (or equiv) and take the best (clearest) bits from the multiple photos. As long as you take enough photos, and all the traffic/people are moving, you will get a clear composite as if no-one was there.

Avoid moving clouds and windy trees though.

As for games - whats that famous quote about not agreeing with what someone says, but fighting for their right to say it? There's a lot of games I wouldn't want to play, but to an extent I believe people should be able to create the media they want (not including things that are just plain illegal, etc - much like in films and books).

Oh - and it's "genre" - there's no "a" in it.

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Peter H
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 15:41 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 15:42
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Quote: "However, I dont think its feasible to maintain such a level of ferocity through the whole game. Doom 3, for example, I thought was damn creapy, but its only a matter of time before the initial fascade fades. Then you know what to expect, you remember its just a game, you learn how the monsters work, and it loses its edge. I think it'd be really hard to keep that going constantly."

yeah, the problem is is that you realize that "Hey, i can just save my game and be back into the swing of things when i die in a jiffy" (unless you can't save your game in which case you just get frustrated)

there is no consequence to dying or being shot, so you lose your fear, and it becomes a game.

the only way i can think of to get around this would be to administer electrical shocks like they do in military sims. that way you really are afraid of dying, or being shot (small shock for being shot, large for dying).

kind of like paintball, it's intense because there is the chance you'll experience pain.

unfortunately there is no way that would fly in the world today (i would play it, but i don't think many would)

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Van B
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 16:10
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I have a pistol game, like laser tag, but you get shocked if you get shot - sounds like fun?... don't know, haven't played it yet, I have issues with being electrocuted. This was a birthday gift from my brother, who would simply cheat at it.

I think games need to be tougher, like it should be a royal pain in the butt to die - like Battlefield 2 - if you only had one life that would be a very very tense game.

One game scenario I like is Farcry Evolution on the XBox, with Predator mode, some players are preds armed with akimbo P90's, power melee, and if they die they ressurect - then against them you have normal players - but if you die your spectating unless someone can find the radio to get reinforcements. The normal players have to run a generator for a certain time while the predators try to stop them. So you get some really mad games where players can be a hero and ressurect some buddies and win the game, the preds can work together to guard the objectives, and working as a team is the only really effective way to win, like splitting into groups to tackle each objective seperately and keep the preds on their toes. Killing a few predators without dying is a real achievement. It's just a different slant on things, but diverse game modes like that can really open up the way you play with human opponents. When your the last human against 3 preds, you know your team mates are watching you, often they'll help out with warnings and directions, but the whole experience is just better than team deathmatch and the like. Moving objectives away from simple killing could really improve the monotony in these FPS's - frags count for less and less these days, it's really more fun to be a sneaky bugger instead.

For example, HL2, when you have those car engines with the blades, you can easily shoot the zombie-style dudes, or you can lure them into your spinning blade of pain, spinning blades of pain is the way it should be. I miss Duke Nukem 3D, those pipe bombs and trip bombs rocked, it's the only game to ever do a good job of multiplayer boobytraps.

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Grandma
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 16:30
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Quote: "I miss Duke Nukem 3D, those pipe bombs and trip bombs rocked, it's the only game to ever do a good job of multiplayer boobytraps."


So i'm not alone?

btw, i think Goldeneye for the N64 had very good boobytraps also. I remember when i was unbeatable at that game, 3 vs 1 (me) and i still won by far ( "I'm INVISIBLE!!" i used to say, lol ). I don't know, maybe they sucked. Either way, fun multiplayer game.

That's the reason i'm making boobytrap things in my own game, love them. Perhaps because they are soooo evil!.

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Peter H
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 16:32 Edited at: 15th Dec 2006 16:33
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Quote: "but if you die your spectating unless someone can find the radio to get reinforcements. "

Quote: "When your the last human against 3 preds, you know your team mates are watching you, often they'll help out with warnings and directions, but the whole experience is just better than team deathmatch and the like. Moving objectives away from simple killing could really improve the monotony in these FPS's - frags count for less and less these days, it's really more fun to be a sneaky bugger instead."

sounds exactly like americas army, except in AA you don't have reinforcements....

it's a great game because you really don't want to die (Because it means you sit on the sidelines until the end of the round) and you also get a really great feeling if you manage to take out more than 1 or 2 guys, because you know they won't just spawn back in an instant, and they were trying just as hard not to die as you

Also objectives are extremely important in the game, if you're sneaky enough you can win the game without ever firing a shot... also you get lots more points for completing objs than getting frags, so it gives you an incentive.

anyway, AA is really the only online FPS i can stand playing... (i've played plenty of others but always get bored after a week or so of them)

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 17:25
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Quote: "Crazy Frog Racer-

Damn that evil little frog, heck I will not insult evil, because such evil people although deserving of foulness, do not deserve to be compared to that thing. Lets just say, the less chav culture, the better, I don't mind people having fun, but a chav's idea of fun is knifing you."


Uh, you do know that they made a crazy frog racer game right?
Without any of his music?
And with only one giant city to race in, where the only "variety" between tracks was different parts of the city were open/closed?
And there were these four other strange characters they made up?
It's a crappy game beyond belief.

Yes, a friend of mine bought it. I did not support this decision in any way.

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Big Man
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 17:57
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I think that the rts genre should never have been invented it bores the hell outa me but that is an opinion.

BM

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 18:02
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Quote: "Uh, you do know that they made a crazy frog racer game right?
Without any of his music?
And with only one giant city to race in, where the only "variety" between tracks was different parts of the city were open/closed?
And there were these four other strange characters they made up?
It's a crappy game beyond belief.

Yes, a friend of mine bought it. I did not support this decision in any way."


I realise the first point, the rest I didn't, as soon as I saw it in GAME, I turned my head away and moved to the next shelf after yelling 'oh my f***ing God'.

The other disturbing thing is, when we were working on Rush (shame that project died) Onimusha found a potential publisher...the same dudes that published that horrible game...

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 19:33
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@ Raven: I'll have to hunt that game down, it definitely sounds cool. I've always wanted to see the gameplay of puzzle games blended seamlessly with the perspective of FPS games... would be neat!

@ Tink: AWESOME. I never would have thought about doing that! The more I think about it, the cooler this idea gets. I don't want to get too ahead of myself or anything, but I'm seriously thinking about making this game in the not-so-distant future. I might actually make a composite of multiple cities in my area, like Binghamton, NYC, Syracuse, maybe even Philly, and create a fictional city from that . the ideas are definitely flowing on this. It could be set up like a text adventure... like, the player is in room A, and from there they can link to rooms B, C, and D, and in each of those rooms there'd be puzzles and activities... perhaps even mini-games... to keep them occupied. I might even consider incorporating brief video segments (low-res of course, as low as decent quality permits). Again, I'm getting ahead of myself, but your composite-image idea is tops and makes this game a whole lot easier to make. And thus the gears start spinning


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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 21:09
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I started one like that once...but I lost it.

It actually came together nicely...though a tripod would have enhanced it, for sure.

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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 00:42
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Quote: "I think that the rts genre should never have been invented it bores the hell outa me but that is an opinion."


It was awesome when it started out. Warcraft etc. Red Alert was its peak in my opinion. Now it's stagnent boring same-old same-old. Needs a kick up the arse and some innovation to bring it back on track.


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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 01:11
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Quote: "I have a pistol game, like laser tag, but you get shocked if you get shot - sounds like fun?... don't know, haven't played it yet, I have issues with being electrocuted. This was a birthday gift from my brother, who would simply cheat at it."


that was featured in Extreme Geek Magazine, as well as a USB missle system, a USB drink cooling pad, and a USB mug warmer.

"If it weren't for monsoor here, this town wouldn't be here, and that kid would never grow up to lie about texas!"
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 01:21
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I'd still rather play Starcraft than these new RTS games, but damn they're looking really pretty nowadays. I have Rise and Fall, and some of the visuals are incredible, the new Middle Earth RTS looks great too. But the annoying thing is how they're all pretty much the same, it's like there's some arrogance about how RTS games should work, especially with AI. I mean, everyone I know who likes RTS games likes to build a base, build their army, then have an all out war. Once my army is gone, I don't want to make more troops. Instead there's the AI's little mind-numbing attacks. Start in opposite corners, leave each other alone until someone snaps and rally's their troops, then have a massive battle in the middle of the map. It's how it's played in skirmishes against human players, AI should have started to follow suit by now.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 06:40
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I was never much of an RTS fan, with the exception of Civ and games like that. I might buy Civ 4 with birthday money tomorrow afternoon, I'm still weighing it's worth . That is, of course, if I get birthday money lol. I shouldn't, I'll be 27 tomorrow, but I wouldn't exactly turn free money away lol. Shame? What's that?


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 07:30
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Well Civ is not an RTS, and personally I would avoid CIV IV, I loved the first 3 but this one has reduced the gameplay in favor of making it look prettier, (really I would rather have had a better game and not a model of Ghandi with a 2048*2048 texture). If you have never played Alpha Centauri take a look for it, it was built off the CIV II engine, but a much much better game. Or for free play Savage

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