Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Windows over Linux?

Author
Message
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 06:19
Link
This might seem like a simple question, but give it some thought.
Why do people want Windows over Linux, to the point that they are willing to steal a product over something that they can aquire legally for free?

Brand Loyalty?
Back-Compatability?
Useability?
Access?

There are so many facets to this question, but I can't help but wonder what exactly does Windows provide that Linux does not.
I think the argument also stems out to why people choose the Playstation 2 over the XBOX or GameCube.

Does the XBOX 360, Wii and Playstation 3 change how people view thier next purchases? Do you feel that these are good enhancements on the previous technology? Why do you personally feel that this next incarnation of a previous device make it better?
Do the new generation of the device actually change your loyalty to a previous brand. If so, why does it?

I would find it interesting to know, why you think that certain brands seem to loose to others; when they are often better technology. What do you see as the defining factor of why you choose one of the other?

Do you ever see an Operating System, replacing Windows as your primary OS? If yoy don't then why do you think that Windows is so indespensable?

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 07:21
Link
Quote: "
This might seem like a simple question, but give it some thought.
Why do people want Windows over Linux, to the point that they are willing to steal a product over something that they can aquire legally for free?

Brand Loyalty?
Back-Compatability?
Useability?
Access?

"


Games and applications are most abundant with the windows system.
Companies want people who can manage the digital assets
Game Development has taken off with Direct X therefore its the platform of choice with the least amount of work.



Quote: "

There are so many facets to this question, but I can't help but wonder what exactly does Windows provide that Linux does not.
"


Easier to use, more software, etc..

Quote: "
I think the argument also stems out to why people choose the Playstation 2 over the XBOX or GameCube.

Does the XBOX 360, Wii and Playstation 3 change how people view thier next purchases? Do you feel that these are good enhancements on the previous technology? Why do you personally feel that this next incarnation of a previous device make it better?
Do the new generation of the device actually change your loyalty to a previous brand. If so, why does it?

I would find it interesting to know, why you think that certain brands seem to loose to others; when they are often better technology. What do you see as the defining factor of why you choose one of the other?
"


consoles are a niche market of the gaming industry, held by a few.
brand loyalty is whole another matter i wont digress here.


Quote: "
Do you ever see an Operating System, replacing Windows as your primary OS? If yoy don't then why do you think that Windows is so indespensable?
"


Ive been without a windows machine for years as my primary dev box. the only thing that keeps me around is money to be made knowing the OS most people use, and developing games for the most amount of users.

I still keep windows machines around and will purchase a new monster that should ride out another few years for gamedev and keeping up with technology.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 09:27
Link
Quote: "consoles are a niche market of the gaming industry, held by a few."


Actually consoles are the driving force of the game industry. Most game developers focus on console dev first, then PC.

But Raven, to answer your Windows question, it's all about the games. If I could play all the games I normally play on PC, on Linux, I would jump there in a heartbeat. There are also loads of utility software I use regularly on Windows with which I don't know of replacements--- Reason, for one. But why does it have to be one or the other? Many people dual-boot so the matter is moot.

http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
Ben Stein's Christmas Thoughts
Back to top
Profile PM Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 09:38
Link
Im referring to the amount of consoles being a niche market.
Three major companies hold the hardware in that market of the whole games industry.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 09:40
Link
Ahh I see what you mean now--- my mistake

http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
Ben Stein's Christmas Thoughts
Back to top
Profile PM Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 09:46
Link
I know what you mean though, mobile phone market is interesting me, i think the piracy issue is a lot harder with consoles of this degree, in turn better sales for less work, plus im a sucker for 2d sometimes

Back to top
Profile PM Email
adr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: Job Centre
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 10:47
Link
Quote: "I can't help but wonder what exactly does Windows provide that Linux does not."


Recently, under windows, I had a problem whereby a piece of software wouldn't install because it was missing some libraries. That's probably about the first time that's happened to me since I installed XP.

If I want to install a piece of software under Linux (via RPM) I have to make sure it's compatible with my distro (other distros use RPM), I have to make sure it's for the correct desktop environment, I may have to install a shared library because the package dynamically links against an older version ...

Windows just works, out of the box. Linux does too, nowadays, but installing apps can still be a pain.

Fortunately for me, the only things I want to install under linux are well established packages which are in the YUM repos.


I'm superfly TNT
Back to top
Profile PM Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 11:19
Link
gotta love redundancy packages in linux, NOT.
no wait, you need version 4.5.6.7.33.22.11 instead of version 4.5.6.7.33.22.11a of this core package which stuffs everything else up.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
TKF15H
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Jul 2003
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:32
Link
bah, that's not so bad. The real problem is when you can't install software X because it depends on software Y, and you can't install Y because it requires X. This used to happen a whole lot in Mandrake/Mandriva. Looks like SuSE fixed it though.

My Blog
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
adr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: Job Centre
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:39
Link
Quote: "you need version 4.5.6.7.33.22.11 instead of version 4.5.6.7.33.22.11a of this core package which stuffs everything else up."

I didn't know how to solve this until very recently. My old fix would be to symlink something.so.5 --> something.so.6 and cross my fingers. What you need are "compat" libraries, whose sole purpose is to provide something for packages to link against - not to replace your current version. There are an assload of packages which begin with "compat-"...


I'm superfly TNT
Back to top
Profile PM Website
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 16:25
Link
Leaving the inhabitants of Geekdom aside for a moment...

Windows is catered to noobs and tech-NO-morons, yet it is too difficult for most people. Now imagine any form of linux in those same hands. People want to just open the box, plonk the thing on the floor, and press a button or two, thats it. Windows comes closest to that, not to mention most apps and games run on windows, period.

Consoles is another issue all together, which can't be fully analyzed without having the prerequisite duscussion of "hardware-software" paradigm (ie MS - Sony)



Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
Back to top
Profile PM
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 16:50
Link
if you can kill redundancy in linux im all for it.
i work seriously in a closed unix environment 80% of the time now-adays.
call me naive but it pays the bills, buys a house and allows me to buy maya as well.
did i mention it paid for a house!. nuff said.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
enablerbr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 17:34
Link
now if you had an OS that was happy using Windows drivers. yet wasn't Windows OS. then they would be a real alternative to windows. Linux maybe free for the most part. yet in terms of the variety of Linux versions with each having some non standard feature. Linux just won't currently offer a real threat to Windows.
Back to top
Profile PM
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 17:55
Link
I choose Windows because it does and has what I want, even if I have to put up with what else I get with it, which I believe I shouldn't, but hey, nothing is perfect and well Windows works and does what I need it to do.

Linux, well, I haven't got any real chance to play with it, I know there is a program that lets you play Windows games, the only thing stopping me there would be DBP and Hexagon 2. I have played around with Suse and DSL a little on Virtual PC/VMWare, but as you can imagine, with the lack of ram I have, only DSL gave good performance and Suse was quite slow, but seems like a pretty awesome OS, I can't see why people like stealing Windows, for one thing, it comes with most computers and Linux can do most things Windows can, in terms of what a lot of users would use it for.

Also (Just as a little thing to see if there are any Windows fan boys in the house, but by no means do I mean what I am going to say )What idiot would want to steal Windows, its like stealing a Skoda! You're gonna have trouble using it and nobody would want to buy it off of you, if you're willing to steal just go that extra bit further for the better product...
Disclaimer: Stealing isn't wrong, getting caught is, I mean KIDS SERIOUSLY, NO STEALING, IF I CATCH YOU STEALING, I'LL MAKE YOU WISH YOU WENT OPEN SOURCE.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Back to top
Profile PM Website
White knight
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 21:23
Link
why people use windows more than linux? Well simple the games are more compadible with windows especialy the directx 9cand up linux it's self don't have any compadibility with windows games/apps. But with the help of cedeaga(formerly knowen as winex and amied for directx games) alot of windows games can be played on linux though. Wine is more for apps can run just about any app out (non directx). Some like windows it's easy to them to use. But they haven't really seen some of the easy to use linux systems(slackware for example easy to install easy to operate for beginer). When they get all directx games compadible with linux and people to see a agreable interface that they trust and think is easy for them then there will be a change then. But windows will be on top atleast for a bit longer linux is always improving Microsoft is prof of it since they want to take part in some of linux stuff. My self i like linux it's been stable since day one unlike 98 me and 2000 xp has improved but still resource hog. Linux on the other hand is not a resource hog(depending on which distro you choose). Some of the hardware that wouldn't work in windows i found to work for linux now i'm not saying one is better than the other i'm just using my yrs experience to compare differences on linux and windows. Linux is open source(meaning you can modify it to your hearts content if you know c most have c installed with it).windows on the other hand being closed source is not so modifiable but can be modified to a extent.

abcd
Back to top
Profile PM Website
AlexI
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:08 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 17:10
Link
Everything is alot easier with windows, most hardware only works windows (wirless adapter's are a pain to get to work with linux) and there is alot more software for windows. It is harder to develop programs for linux and anything you want to do with the system you mostly have to use the command prompt. Though windows beets linux in most areas; linux is really really good as acting as a server and is great with anything to do with networking


Back to top
Profile PM
adr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: Job Centre
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:29 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 17:30
Link
Given your recent "I can't seem to find my arse with both hands" type posts, I'm having a hard time not pulling apart your post...

Quote: "most hardware only works windows"

Well, my "Windows-Only" printer doesn't work with Linux. But, that shouldn't be a surprise. The last time I had a problem with linux/hardware was trying to install RedHat 9 on a laptop. Since then, everything's always worked without a hitch.

I will agree that wifi is tricky in that it doesn't always work out of the box. I installed an RPM and boom, mine worked. Don't expect your new physics card to work, because it's not a gaming platform... which brings me to...

Quote: "It is harder to develop programs for linux"

Uhhmm... what? I choose to develop under linux because I find the array of tools much more condusive to development. "Tools" doesn't necessarily mean huge packages - the little tools are helpful too - wget, tail and grep feature heavily in my day to day use.

Quote: "anything you want to do with the system you mostly have to use the command prompt"

All the tutorials you will have read .... oh wait... you didn't read any. I remember now. Well, if you had read tutorials, the reason people use vi to create users, rather than anything else, is because every flavour of Linux, BSD and Unix come with vi. I use Fedora/Gnome. So if a tutorial used Mandrake/KDE, that's of no use to me. On the other hand, vi is pervasive.

I can't speak for anything else, but Fedora/Gnome has a GUI admin tool for pretty much everything you could need to do with a desktop or server.


I'm superfly TNT
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:31
Link
My cousin had a few flings with various version of Linux. They had alot of cool features from what I saw, but there's so much tweaking and little things that it ends up being a pain in the butt. Windows has been working just fine for me. I hate Microsoft and how much they feel each OS sold to the public should cost, but I really don't have many complaints otherwise. I'd consider a dual boot with some form of Linux, but until DX becomes 100% compatible with it I don't want it as a primary OS.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
Back to top
Profile PM
White knight
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 20:38 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 20:46
Link
@!hi!
Quote: "Everything is alot easier with windows, most hardware only works windows (wirless adapter's are a pain to get to work with linux)"

That is not true I have wireless network cards and (suposed to be built for windows only devices) that work fine with linux as for installing for a beginner i would recomend slackware for ease of install and it has lot's of compadibility for todays hardware (some out of the box and some not). Personaly i wouldn't even consider red hat though but for beginners again that would be another good choice. Now for those die hard code warriors there is gentoo which is all from sourcecode. If you like to make your own games for linux useing a comercial game engine for $100 you can get torque http://www.garagegames.com/. It will compile with the linux c tools. There is a wide selection of stuff for it too.
unreal doom3 sims and a few other games they did make for linux natively. There is more that i had found that they made for linux also. but yes there is more for windows though. a windows game that is for windows only that will work with linux through cedega is a high end pc game called morrowind http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm grand theft auto series will work on linux with cedega and most games directx b and under.
I even got darkbasic programs (directx b programs) to work with linux with cedega). I had done some testing to see what i could get to work on linux and how to make it easy for others they also got a xp interface for linux for those windows lovers. Visual c++ and visual basic does work with wine (some directx progs will require cedega to run though aslong as it don't require directx 9c they are working in 9c compadibility though). Alot of isp's use linux and servers for websites. Linux is used more than people know but not as much for residential use though as windows.
Well there is one thing that linux has that windows don't that is ability to run off a cd or usb stick (depends on distro like knopix colledge linux and a few more) and some don't even require much memory or space and can be ran ontop of windows (some with emulators).http://www.linux.org/dist/

abcd
Back to top
Profile PM Website
the_winch
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:07
Link
Quote: "i would recomend slackware for ease of install and it has lot's of compadibility for todays hardware (some out of the box and some not)"


Nothing says ease of install more than being dumped at a command prompt having to edit your own x.org.conf. I'm guessing most beginners don't want to spend a lot of time of reading and messing about just to get X going.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
White knight
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:19
Link
slackware doesn't goto command prompt after install (install is usaly point and click) it is usaly installed directly from cd and then takes you to kde desktop now that is easy even for a beginner.
Also there os alot of stuff you can have installed afterwords though a gui. I look at it from a begginners view and think of ways to make it easy even for a non experienced user.I have taught alot of beginners how to install and use slackware and how to easily install new drivers without even touching the prompt.There is prdifined scripts that will do it for you.No Need type anything in prompt or mess with the config manualy.

abcd
Back to top
Profile PM Website
mm0zct
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Nov 2003
Location: scotland-uk
Posted: 21st Dec 2006 21:00
Link
windows is largly used because your average user is wandering round a shop and expects the software he sees on the shelf to work on his system. this is about 96% windows and 4% mac os, this leave linux to the users who are willing to scrounge the internet for software they want and spend a little effort making it work.

personally i use both and have my desktop and laptop both multi-booting, also edinburgh university is almost entirely linux based so which gives the students a bit of exposure to it, but we're already talking computer literate IT students, not the joe publem.

so why is windows more popular than linux? wander round your nearest supermarked and ask people randomly what they think linux is

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 720GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e) 17" tft(@1280x1024).
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 21st Dec 2006 21:10
Link
I'm still confused as to why people would want to use Linux for anything else than a server. What does it do so much better than Windows?

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
Download the free version
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Robot
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th May 2004
Location:
Posted: 21st Dec 2006 21:37
Link
You mean apart from being free and all...
Back to top
Profile PM
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 21st Dec 2006 22:56
Link
Quote: "this leave linux to the users who are willing to scrounge the internet for software they want and spend a little effort making it work."


Not necessarily, one Linux fully equipped PC:

http://pcs.timeuk.com/computers/base_unit/18027/61320/TIME_MACHINE_4200_LX

Quote: "Linspire 5.0 Linux Model.
Windows XP £40 extra – click £449 model.
Order By Telephone – Pay Nothing For 12 Months!.
Usually despatched within 7 days."


"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Back to top
Profile PM Website
enablerbr
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 00:21
Link
Quote: "this leave linux to the users who are willing to scrounge the internet for software they want and spend a little effort making it work."


why should the end user be made to mess around with something. software, if user friendly, should work straight out of the box. it's bad enough most Windows based games depend on users messing with ini files to get a game to work.
Back to top
Profile PM
Steve J
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 01:50
Link
@enablerbr: Huh? Since When?! All the games I buy work fine

Happiness is like peeing your pants.
Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
JoeCubNC
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 18:35
Link
I'm really lazy and don't want to have to fight with my OS to get what I need running. That said, a few months ago I set my system up as dual boot with windows and a debian distro named Ubuntu because everyone I talked to said "Ubuntu just works out of the box without having to know anything special" and it really does!

I keep decreasing the size of my windows partition because I'm doing more and more of my video editing on linux.

I use a product called CrossoverOffice which is a front end to Wine (a windows emulator) so that I can use IE (required for my job) and FlashMX. DirectX is supported so many games work fine.

I have many other windows apps installed and they actually seem to run faster in most cases under linux than they do in windows.

Trillian (IM client) works under linux but not well and worst of all I can't get DBPro to run at all
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-18 02:18:54
Your offset time is: 2024-11-18 02:18:54