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Geek Culture / Germans legislate over game laws

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Raven
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 08:36
The shooting last week in Germany, has once again sparked off calls for stricter laws and regulations on computer games.

Bosse left a suicide note of sorts (it's on YouTube for those wanting to know what he said), show a deeply troubled lad who had basically hit breaking point.

I think what's truely sad is, that everyone who was involved in the shooting still carries the preconception that he did it because he played too much Counter-Strike. No one is willing to take blame for the fact that this is someone who has obviously led a truely miserable childhood through school because of playing video games.

Would banning violent games have stopped this? Absolutely not.
This is no different to if someone had been teased, bullied or jaunted over having a speech impediment or akin.

The true issue lies with how the school had dealt with this guy, and rather than admiting that the school system failed; or that the pupils had caused him serious grief, they all decide to blame an easier external source. Nothing will change after this inccident to prevent it happening again, all it will do is cause many developers to start shunning Germany due to worries over lawsuits.

I've heard before from schools (for example my little brother was bullied in his first year, and gained a serious anger management issue as a result) that children with problems should consult a staff member. Problem is that children don't WANT to admit they need help or that they can't deal with something, particularly in the teenage years. It can't help that being a teenager is difficult enough due to the hormonal imbalance causing things to become more difficult than they should be. Teenage minds are very fragile at best, which is no doubt why most of these inccidents happen when a bullied teenager hits their breaking point.

If a postman who plays tetris everyday walked in to his head office and tried to kill everyone with an uzi, would that result in a ban on tetris?

Getting truely sick and tired of the blame game societies we live in. Nothing is ever the fault of those directly involved, it is always societies problem.

"Oh I can't control my kid, cause it's their friends making them bad!" .. you know what bull-freaking-crap, if your child is misbehaving you punish them; you don't let them rule the damn roost, you make sure they know who's in charge. They're not old or wise enough to make their own damn decisions yet, and no matter how much they believe they're ready and you should butt out... it's the guardians responsibility to make sure that they behave themselves.

Be that parents, teachers, or police. If they can't behave after numerous attempt then ship them off to military school, there they won't have a choice. It's behave or get a legal whooping.

About time people fess us up problems, and recognise them. Perhaps then they can go about sorting them out rather than saying "Oh it's not our fault, we let Jnr play Final Fantasy XII all day so he must've stolen those PS3's from Game because of that game!"

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 08:56
Well all I can say is it's a good job nobody listens to Ze Germans.

Really, what do they think is gonna happen in Germany with this ban in place? - a completey new avenue for fascists to propogate their beliefs, through underground videogames we'll see an influx of new hormonaly-unbalanced recruits.

People will play the games they want, whether they download them, buy them, or get them for free from some political group - teenagers just won't care. Frankly if they think that someone can do that based on the influence of videogames, well perhaps removing videogames from the equation is a good idea - perhaps then they'll focus on the actual causes of these incidents for once.

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empty
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:04
Neither the experts nor the majority of the Germans think that banning those games is the way to go. A bunch of politicians and a big tabloid push this idea forward, though. Actually it's pretty much a deja vu of what happened a few years back after a similar incident in Germany.

indi
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:22
Ach mein Gott, my ancestors raped and pillaged most european countries, tee hee.
hate crimes without video games, better put them on trial!!!
lets blame the car for crashing into the house, not the driver.
geddit.? yup.

Steve J
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:41
@indi: Me too! One of my grandma's uncles was actually Kaiser Wilhelm the 2nd during WW1, but we left after lots of political disagreements (basically exiled). I was going to learn German but never got around to it...

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indi
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:52
My ancestors lead back to norwegian and french heritage.
My step side is connected to the dambusters in the english sense, thats how i got the surname instead of madland.

The germans fubar'd norway into the arian baby camps with WWII, evermore im a skippy now, pwning anyone who challenges me to sport.

I cant do tennis, give me a shot at rugby, grid-iron etc. and ill mow you downskis.
I better get back to the gym if im to up hold that statement with the 7 foot, 13 year olds being created these days as well. im only 6'2" 100 kgs.

anyway this post is another D&D slash wolfenstein columbine hype nonsense the white collars want you to believe.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:10
Violent video-games do place frequent players in a combative frame of mind. The change from black and white opponents to real society is a hard one.

Video games aren't the only factor here. Plus, I like making and playing violent video games. When immature people seek an adult outlet, problems arise. That cannot be denied. Whether its violent, or sexual, or substance related, children cannot be expected to process input like that.

We just have to find a solution, and bans clearly aren't the answer. I'm not sure what is, besides stricter ratings.


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Grandma
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:11
For the first 9 years of my life at school i was bullied almost every single day. I had anger problems (still have sorts) and was seriously considering suicide at one point. The only reason i didn't do it was because i had my own little world i could relax in and let off some steam at.

The point is that i probably owe Nintendo my life and i would never for a second think that games could be "Evil manipulating things". If someone desides to do something bad because of a game then surely the problem doesn't lie with the game, but rather the person itlsef.

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KeithC
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:15
You know; the other day I was playing Checkers, and I felt the sudden urge to grab a high-powered rifle and find a high place. All I kept hearing in my head was "center mass....center mass".....

Damn Checkers does it to me everytime; I wish someone would do something about that devil game. I mean really, is it gonna take a killing spree to put an end to the "Red and Black" madness?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:20
Come on guys, this clearly doesn't apply to everyone. Most people are stable and can handle it.

Some people aren't stable and can't. Some of those people are young as well, and that makes it even harder. Millions of people play games, only a couple ever do anything bad. The problem is that it is a totally new type of criminal - kids that have money and normally don't have any real issues except being losers. The data on violent video games is valid. What exactly it means is still a question.


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Zappo
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:45 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 14:51
I would expect there are more injuries per year from children emulating 'Power Rangers' or American Wrestling than computer games. Sadly, someone shouting 'I want this stopped because its a danger to our children and if you disagree with me than you obviously dont care about them' is going to get support/votes from the misinformed.

Parental control really is the key. Parents should know what computer games their kids play. They should look at the content and age rating before letting them have them. It just seems too many parents can't be bothered to check as long as it keeps the kids quiet.
Van B
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:29
Yeah, parents should know what games their kids are playing, and play with them whenever they can - and with that control it's ok to let them play games that might not be suitable for other kids their age. Some people would baulk at the games and movies I let my son view and play - but it depends on your kid, with supervision there's really no danger as far as I can see, if things get to disturbing, then you can take control, switch games, stop DVD's, that's the job of every parent.

This guy was 18, an adult, a very screwed up adult, the fact that he likes CS just tells me that he's found an outlet of sorts, probably deswaded him from other more self destructive routes (crime, self-harm, drug abuse, etc) until his mental problems got the better of him.

I'm not saying videogames have no effect, but I can honestly say that half a stressful day at work makes me more violently inclined than any videogame. Sometimes I'd just love to throw a PC out a window, or take a baseball bat to it - it's not annoyance, it's stress. Yet that stress doesn't last long, I just get home and knock 7-shades out on the Wii Boxing - if not for my welcome vent at the end of the day, I'm not sure I could maintain my polite demenour, I'd probably be a bit of a git. The most stressed I ever see my son, is when he's been a cheeky monkey and has his XBox taken away. I've known people who've crashed their car after a session on Gran Turismo, much more common, it happens all the time, especially in the chav community - that seems to be brushed under the carpet; until someone get's killed that is.

Of course, we don't know the spec of this guys PC, perhaps it's a piece of crud, and that's what pushed him over the edge, like that video of the kid who smashes his keyboard to hell. That kind of outburst is usually short lived, and completely different from going on a suicide massacre - I think all social workers, lawyers, polititians, judges, school teachers, in fact everyone should agree that massacres are caused by mental problems, not getting pwnd at CS.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:34
It is mental problems, but like I said, this kind of criminal and crime didn't used to exist. That's really the problem. School shootings by kids are a pretty modern thing. And, I'm sorry, but an 18 year old is still a kid to me unless he proves otherwise.


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Peter H
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:49
This is ridiculous. How more ignorant of the facts can they get then that...

Quote: ""Since first grade, people picked on me, and I was a loser," Bosse says on the video. "Every kid in school who is different from the majority is a loner." He goes on about how he wanted to have friends, but was never accepted by his peers or his school."

It's obvious that he was tipped over the edge by bullies/jerks in his school (i'm sure the teachers didn't help either).

the school system is so messed up it's not even funny.

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 18:03
It's the 'rents fault. Always the 'rents. If you let TV and video games bring up your children, this will cause the mental ones to be mental. I think these mental kids, if brought up properly, would function in society.

When we're kiddies, we're like a blank canvas, sucking in all the outside influences. If the parents can't be arsed to put you on the right track, then they're leaving it to luck. Unfortunately, people these days think feeding and clothing and schooling their kids is the cornerstone of their responsibility. They don't understand interaction, communication and bonding are instrumental in how your kids develop.

But then again, parents are people to, and we all know people in general are very very stupid.


Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 18:34
Quote: "It's the 'rents fault. Always the 'rents. If you let TV and video games bring up your children, this will cause the mental ones to be mental."

Possibly, I think it was a combination of the environment and the parents.

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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 21:27 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 21:29
The problem is today's kids in first world countries don't know what hard work is and don't know the value of a dollar. They're constantly told how great they are by their parents and teachers, regardless of how well they do, so they build this complex like they are as good or better than everyone else. There's no real hardships like they had back in the 20s during the great depression--- they don't have to worry when their next meal will come, or IF it will come.

What do immature kids with too much free time and money? They do immature things.

I used to babysit this kid who got an A on his report, even though he spelled mountain "mntn" and didn't use proper punctuation. We are literally breeding and raising kids who have the opposite problem of low self esteem-- too much esteem.

If they don't work hard for the things they have, then they don't understand the value of other people's property. They steal, write graffiti, and key other people's cars.

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 21:58
Quote: "The problem is today's kids in first world countries don't know what hard work is and don't know the value of a dollar."


Me thinks Jeku is getting old doesn't every generation say this about the next generation..

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FredP
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 23:22
Yep.
And Jeku beat me to it...
And yes,I used to pull a wagon of chidren through three feet of snow barefoot to school uphill both ways...
I have played video games for years.
Everything from the Resident Evils to the Marios.
I have never pulled out a high powered rifle out and decided to snipe people.
The problem is that people won't take responsibility for their own actions.
They have blamed every form of media for their problems.
Some people are just unbalanced.
Some people just need to grow the canolies to say they screwed up,it is their responsibility or do something about their friend/child,etc. if there is a problem.
Extreme behavioral changes in children should be noticed by their parents.
When I was a kid if someobdy had a problem with somebody else we went out to the playground or whatever,punched each other a few times and went on about our lives.
I have said it before and I will say it again...
When I was growing up I played Pac-Man but I never ate anybody.

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 00:10
Heck before video games we used to play Rock Fight, where you grab a handfull of quarter sized rocks and wing em at each other.

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Vanished
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 00:12
Quote: "Of course, we don't know the spec of this guys PC, perhaps it's a piece of crud, and that's what pushed him over the edge, like that video of the kid who smashes his keyboard to hell."


Do you mean this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgncLPRLd2E

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enablerbr
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 00:25
there was a game i used to play in scotland when i was young. which involved trying to get to a wall. 1 person would have to stop you. if caught you joined the stopper. stopping involved kicking and punching. even the girls played it. this was before spectrums/comadores etc..

as for German gamers. they should start taking action against this nonsense that passes for law.
Fallout
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 00:28
Quote: "Heck before video games we used to play Rock Fight, where you grab a handfull of quarter sized rocks and wing em at each other."


haha. When we were kids we used to play stone fort, where you build a fort out of sticks and planks of wood and anything you can scavange and then throw massive great lumps of granite at each other. How we got away unscaved, I have no idea.

Also, long before computer games, we used to have plastic M16s and cowboy capguns and run around playing "War", going on missions and shooting each other. We even had those plastic knives that go into the handle and we used to stab each other to death. We also used to sword fight with metal swords we built out of mechano.

Ya know, when ya think about it, s**t loads of violent mimiciry without a computer game (or many violent films for that matter) in sight.


Peter H
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 15:58 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 15:59
Quote: "Also, long before computer games, we used to have plastic M16s and cowboy capguns and run around playing "War", going on missions and shooting each other. We even had those plastic knives that go into the handle and we used to stab each other to death. We also used to sword fight with metal swords we built out of mechano."

wait... you don't still do that?

maybe i'm the only one..

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:57
Quote: "there was a game i used to play in scotland when i was young. which involved trying to get to a wall. 1 person would have to stop you. if caught you joined the stopper. stopping involved kicking and punching. even the girls played it. this was before spectrums/comadores etc.."


hehe I remember that. 20 years later Ive still got some marks in my head from smashing into a pebble dashed wall.

Zaibatsu
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 18:31
banning games! bah!

you used to be able to take pocket knives to school and play with them during lunch! i remember standing and dropping the knife between my feet with the blade pointed down, trying to get it to stick in the dirt and stand on end. used to be able to keep fire crackers or cherry bombs in your lockers(so long as you didn't set them off)!

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 20:41
Quote: "used to be able to keep fire crackers or cherry bombs in your lockers(so long as you didn't set them off)!"

Lol, now it'd be whole SWAT team, bomb squad, lockdown of the school, etc.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:01 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 21:01
Quote: "Lol, now it'd be whole SWAT team, bomb squad, lockdown of the school, etc.
"


yep. the only thing better about the world of today, is the computers and technology.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:21
Quote: "you used to be able to take pocket knives to school and play with them during lunch!"


Yeah we use to play baseball with the pocket knives. you would pop out two of the blades and put them at right angles then sick it into some wood. then flip the back of the knife so it spun around and if it stuck in the wood again you got a single double etc depending on how the knife landed.

We also used to play a game where you had to throw the knife near the other guys feet then they had to stretch their foot to where the knife was (kinda a weird twister) you kept it up till someone fell over or you through the knife more than 6 inches of so from your opponents foot or the knife did not stick into the ground.

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Jeku
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 22:10
Heh I used to actively buy and sell firecrackers from my locker at school to other kids. Was a great time

UFO
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 22:41 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 22:44
Sorry for changing the topic (even though it is to the original topic )

Wasn't there a law or something that said that all blood in games have to be green, and the victims have to be very un-human like in Germany? I believe it used to be like that a long time ago, but what happened to it now? And don't ask where I got that idea, I have no clue. I just remember reading/hearing/whatever that a long time ago.

Just wondering...

I think it is dumb to pin violent games to the shooting. So what if he played Counterstrike or some violent game? Who doesn't?

Quote: "Me thinks Jeku is getting old doesn't every generation say this about the next generation.."

lol. Everyone thinks that the world is being ruined during their lives. And then the next generation thinks so too, etc.

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