putting text in 3d - GameCreators Forum

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sjonny

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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 12:22

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hello guys, i need to make a sign with text on it but it is in 3d. how can you print a text in 3d?

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wildbill

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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 14:52

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If you are trying to put it on the image texture its simple, just write the text on the image and texture the object.

If you want the text to change every so often, just make several images and re-texture the object.

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steve c

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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 18:35

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okay i thought he meant how do you make text 3d, and if so u cant print it whith a db command u have to make it in a 3d moddeling program, for instance milkshape 3d which also handily has a text generator.

you just put in what you want and it makes it 3d, you can also change the font. hope that helps.

if thats not what u meant just forget i posted.

no current projects starting db from scratch, so i can program stuff well, noob tutorials ime coming.

despite what it sais to the left joined 5 december 03

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Daemon

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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 19:30

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If you actually want to make 3d text you can use Cloggy's d3d_func dll.

If you just want to put it as an image on the object just use get image.

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sync on
sync rate 60
autocam off
set text size 24
set text font "Gungsuh"
ink -1,0
center text 50,38,"Hello"
get image 1,0,0,100,100,1
make object plain 1,100,100,1
texture object 1,1
move camera -120
do
sync
rotate object 1,object angle x(1)+0.1,object angle y(1)+0.2,object angle z(1)+0.3
loop

Insanity is just a state of mind.

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sjonny

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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 14:11

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i want to print some text on a box like this:

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make object box 1163,1,5,20
position object 1163,900,47.5,125
rem this should be printed on the box "environment"

how to do that? i tried the print and the text command but they only do x and y but not z

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TDK

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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 14:35

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What you need to do is forget about the concept of 'Text' in 3D and start thinking of textures - in this case, 'pictures of text'.

When you create a 3D object like a box, you can paint it with a texture. All you need to do is turn the text into a texture.

You'll learn more if you work it out yourself so I won't put code here - just the method:

1. Create a second (hidden) bitmap (1) and use the Text command to print the required text.

2. Use Text Width() and Text Height() to find out the pixel width and height of the text you've printed and then use the values returned with the Get Image command to grab the text into an image.

3. Set the current bitmap back to 0 and delete the second bitmap.

4. Use the image to texture the 3D object.

That's it. The only drawback is that all of the object's sides will be textured. If you are using a box or cube and this isn't what you want, there's a simple work-around.

Create a 3D Plain the same dimensions as the object's surface you want the texture on and attach it to the object. Then, simply texture the plain - rather than the box.

TDK_Man

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Daemon

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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 15:00 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2007 15:04

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This code allows you to put one piece of text onto an object.

`setup
sync on
sync rate 60
autocam off
randomize timer()
move camera -30

`makes the object which you wanted. I don't position it but that doesn't matter right now
make object box 1163,1,5,20

`set the style of the text which will be printed onto the object
set text size 24
set text font "Gungsuh"

`this function puts text in the center of the object
text_object("Enviroment",1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)))

do
sync
`this rotates the object
rotate object 1163,object angle x(1163)+0.1,object angle y(1163)+0.2,object angle z(1163)+0.3

`this puts a new random word on the object, just to show you how easy it is.
inc l
if l mod 100=0
   `make word
   repeat
      word$=""
      length=rnd(6)+3
      for letter=1 to length
         word$=word$+chr$(rnd(100))
      next letter
   until text height(word$)>0
   `put word on object
   text_object(word$,1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)))
endif

loop

`include these functions at the bottom of the code to use them.
function text_object(text$,objnum,textcolor as dword,backcolor as dword)

`delete existing texture
texture=limb texture(objnum,0)
if texture>0
   delete image texture
endif

`make image to put on object
length=text width(text$)+20
height=text height(text$)
ink backcolor,0
box 0,0,length,height*2
ink textcolor,0
center text length/2,height/2,text$
get image open_image(),0,0,length,height*2,1

`put image on object
texture object objnum,1

endfunction

`finds the first image which isn't being used
function open_image()
repeat
   inc i
until image exist(i)=0
endfunction i

+ Code Snippet

`setup
sync on
sync rate 60
autocam off
randomize timer()
move camera -30

`makes the object which you wanted. I don't position it but that doesn't matter right now
make object box 1163,1,5,20

`set the style of the text which will be printed onto the object
set text size 24
set text font "Gungsuh"

`this function puts text in the center of the object
text_object("Enviroment",1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)))

do
sync
`this rotates the object
rotate object 1163,object angle x(1163)+0.1,object angle y(1163)+0.2,object angle z(1163)+0.3

`this puts a new random word on the object, just to show you how easy it is.
inc l
if l mod 100=0
   `make word
   repeat
      word$=""
      length=rnd(6)+3
      for letter=1 to length
         word$=word$+chr$(rnd(100))
      next letter
   until text height(word$)>0
   `put word on object
   text_object(word$,1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)))
endif

loop

`include these functions at the bottom of the code to use them.
function text_object(text$,objnum,textcolor as dword,backcolor as dword)

`delete existing texture
texture=limb texture(objnum,0)
if texture>0
   delete image texture
endif

`make image to put on object
length=text width(text$)+20
height=text height(text$)
ink backcolor,0
box 0,0,length,height*2
ink textcolor,0
center text length/2,height/2,text$
get image open_image(),0,0,length,height*2,1

`put image on object
texture object objnum,1

endfunction


`finds the first image which isn't being used
function open_image()
repeat
   inc i
until image exist(i)=0
endfunction i

Edit: Listen to TDK's advice and learn how this works. This isn't 3d text, this is text made into an image which is then put on the object. I wouldn't have posted the code here if I had seen TDK post, but I was writing this code when he did.

Insanity is just a state of mind.

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sjonny

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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 16:39

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i'm sorry, but i'm not that good with bitmaps and functions. can you explain this a bit more? the examples in darkbasic itself aren't clear to me.

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Daemon

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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 00:08

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Sorry, on my last post I got carried away and made my example unnecessarily complicated.

I am reposting my example but I have taken out the useless, and probably confusing, random word chage part of the code. I have also added plenty more comments to my code explaining almost every command.

The function is not perfect. It creates the image on the screen instead of in a bitmap like tdk suggests. Putting it on the screen means that for 1 loop the text is in the top left corner.

`setup
sync on : `makes screen update manual
sync rate 60 : `limits run speed to 60 frames per second
autocam off : `makes it so that camera does not automatically move when a new object is created
randomize timer() : `makes it so that rnd() will give back random results
move camera -30 : `moves the camera backwards so that the box will be in view

`makes the object which you wanted. I don't position it but that doesn't matter right now
make object box 1163,1,5,20 : `makes the box of the size you wanted

`set the style of the text which will be printed onto the object
set text size 24 : `makes the text size be 24
set text font "Gungsuh" `makes the text font "Gungsuh"

`this function puts text in the center of the object
text_object("Enviroment",1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255))) : `this calls the function so that the code inside of it will run. What is in the parenthesis are called parameters, they are values put into the function.

do : `begins the continuous loop
sync : `updates the screen

`this rotates the object
rotate object 1163,object angle x(1163)+0.1,object angle y(1163)+0.2,object angle z(1163)+0.3 : `makes the box slowly rotate

loop : `makes it go back up to the command do

`include these functions at the bottom of the code to use them.
`you do not need to know how a function works to use it.
`you need to put what the parameters do.
`text$ is the text you want put on the object
`objnum is the object number of what you want to put text on
`textcolor is the color of the text and should be put in the rgb format
`backcolor is the color of the object behind the text; it should also be put in the rgb format
`the rgb format is rgb(red value,green value,blue value) where each value ranges from 0-255. If you are using the default ide then rightclick and choose "rgb color picker" to try it out
function text_object(text$,objnum,textcolor as dword,backcolor as dword)

`delete existing texture
texture=limb texture(objnum,0) : `finds the image number of the texture of the object
if texture>0 : `if texture was 0 it would mean it wasn't textured
   delete image texture : `delete the image of the texture
endif

`make image to put on object
length=text width(text$)+20 : `this finds the width of the image which needs to be used
height=text height(text$) : ` this is twice the height of the image
ink backcolor,0 : `this sets the color which will be used when the box is drawn
box 0,0,length,height*2 : `tihs draws the box which sets the back color
ink textcolor,0 : `this sets the color for the text
center text length/2,height/2,text$ : `this puts the text in the middle of the box
get image open_image(),0,0,length,height*2,1 : `this takes a poriton of the screen and makes into an image

`put image on object
texture object objnum,1 : `this puts the image on the object

endfunction

`finds the first image which isn't being used
function open_image()
repeat
   inc i
until image exist(i)=0 : `keep increasing i until the image with the number i does not exist
endfunction i
`notice that this function returns a value

+ Code Snippet

`setup
sync on : `makes screen update manual
sync rate 60 : `limits run speed to 60 frames per second
autocam off : `makes it so that camera does not automatically move when a new object is created
randomize timer() : `makes it so that rnd() will give back random results
move camera -30 : `moves the camera backwards so that the box will be in view

`makes the object which you wanted. I don't position it but that doesn't matter right now
make object box 1163,1,5,20 : `makes the box of the size you wanted

`set the style of the text which will be printed onto the object
set text size 24 : `makes the text size be 24
set text font "Gungsuh" `makes the text font "Gungsuh"

`this function puts text in the center of the object
text_object("Enviroment",1163,rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255)),rgb(rnd(255),rnd(255),rnd(255))) : `this calls the function so that the code inside of it will run. What is in the parenthesis are called parameters, they are values put into the function.

do : `begins the continuous loop
sync : `updates the screen

`this rotates the object
rotate object 1163,object angle x(1163)+0.1,object angle y(1163)+0.2,object angle z(1163)+0.3 : `makes the box slowly rotate

loop : `makes it go back up to the command do

`include these functions at the bottom of the code to use them.
`you do not need to know how a function works to use it.
`you need to put what the parameters do.
`text$ is the text you want put on the object
`objnum is the object number of what you want to put text on
`textcolor is the color of the text and should be put in the rgb format
`backcolor is the color of the object behind the text; it should also be put in the rgb format
`the rgb format is rgb(red value,green value,blue value) where each value ranges from 0-255. If you are using the default ide then rightclick and choose "rgb color picker" to try it out
function text_object(text$,objnum,textcolor as dword,backcolor as dword)

`delete existing texture
texture=limb texture(objnum,0) : `finds the image number of the texture of the object
if texture>0 : `if texture was 0 it would mean it wasn't textured
   delete image texture : `delete the image of the texture
endif

`make image to put on object
length=text width(text$)+20 : `this finds the width of the image which needs to be used
height=text height(text$) : ` this is twice the height of the image
ink backcolor,0 : `this sets the color which will be used when the box is drawn
box 0,0,length,height*2 : `tihs draws the box which sets the back color
ink textcolor,0 : `this sets the color for the text
center text length/2,height/2,text$ : `this puts the text in the middle of the box
get image open_image(),0,0,length,height*2,1 : `this takes a poriton of the screen and makes into an image

`put image on object
texture object objnum,1 : `this puts the image on the object

endfunction


`finds the first image which isn't being used
function open_image()
repeat
   inc i
until image exist(i)=0 : `keep increasing i until the image with the number i does not exist
endfunction i
`notice that this function returns a value

I am not sure how much you know, so please don't feel insulted if I explained commands which are already clear to you.

Insanity is just a state of mind.

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sjonny

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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 10:00 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 10:01

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this gives a syntax error ( function declaration has unknown parameter ) at my screen:

function text_object(text$,objnum,textcolor as dword,backcolor as dword)

im using darkbasic classic, so this could be working on DB pro.

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sjonny

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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 09:19

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please help me. i need a answer to this. i just want to put some text in a 3d game so it doesn't has to rotate or something.

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TDK

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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 20:45

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OK, here's how it's done:

+ Code Snippet

Rem Text On Object Snippet (DBC)
Rem (c) TDK Jan 2007
Rem V1 - Texture Whole Object


Gosub Setup
Input "Please Enter a Word: ";Word$
CLS
Gosub Create_Texture
Gosub Create_Object

Do
  YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)
  Sync
Loop

Create_Texture:
 Create Bitmap 1,320,200
 CLS RGB(255,0,0)
 Text 2,0,Word$
 TW=Text Width(Word$)
 TH=Text Height(Word$)
 Get Image 1,0,0,TW+4,TH+2
 Set Current Bitmap 0
 Delete Bitmap 1
Return

Create_Object:
  Make Object Box 1,10,6,6
  Texture Object 1,1
Return

Setup:
  Set Display Mode 800,600,16
  Sync On: Sync Rate 0: CLS 0
  AutoCam Off
  Position Camera 0,5,-20
  Point Camera 0,0,0
Return

As you can see, all six sides of the box are textured. You can't specify just one side.

To get around this, you create a plain as well as the box and glue the plain on the front of the box. You then texture the plain - not the box.

+ Code Snippet

Rem Text On Object Snippet (DBC)
Rem (c) TDK Jan 2007
Rem V2 - Texture One Side Of Object

Gosub Setup
Input "Please Enter a Word: ";Word$
CLS
Gosub Create_Texture
Gosub Create_Object

Do
  YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)
  Sync
Loop

Create_Texture:
 Create Bitmap 1,320,200
 CLS RGB(255,0,0)
 Text 2,0,Word$
 TW=Text Width(Word$)
 TH=Text Height(Word$)
 Get Image 1,0,0,TW+4,TH+2
 Set Current Bitmap 0
 Delete Bitmap 1
Return

Create_Object:
  Make Object Box 1,10,6,6: Color Object 1,RGB(255,0,0)
  Make Object Plain 2,10,6
  Texture Object 2,1
  GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB 2,1,0
  OFFSET LIMB 2,0,0,0,-3.1
Return

Setup:
  Set Display Mode 800,600,16
  Sync On: Sync Rate 0: CLS 0
  AutoCam Off
  Position Camera 0,5,-20
  Point Camera 0,0,0
Return

Finally...

Quote: "i'm sorry, but i'm not that good with bitmaps and functions"

I get the feeling you are trying to run before you can walk. Bitmaps and Functions are just part of the fundamentals of programming and in my opinion, you need to know things like that before you start working in 3D. If you don't you'll only come unstuck later on.

I seriously suggest that you spend some time reading some of the many tutorials before going any further. You won't regret it!

TDK_Man

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sjonny

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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 09:00

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thank you TDK_Man, i still need to adept it a bit but this is what i ment. i know i should go through more tutorials, but i'm still at school and i need to study as well. i'm making this for a project on school ( this is the subject i chose because it should bve something you are interest in ) and this needs to be finished in like two weeks. that's why i'm asking this on a forum. It would be better if there wasn't a deadline. i will learn more about it when i'm finished with the project.

sjonny

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TDK

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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 12:09

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No problem - good luck with the project!

TDK_Man

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sjonny

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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 21:24 Edited at: 10th Jan 2007 21:27

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i'm sorry TDK_man i need your help again how can i get the textured object not to spin and settle it in my game. i tried to position it, but this worked out in an error so could you please help me another time?

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TDK

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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 00:59

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In the code I posted, in the main Do..Loop the line which rotates the object is:

YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)

If you remove that line, it will no longer rotate.

TDK_Man

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sjonny

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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 17:09

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ok thanks that is what i got but how to position it in my game when it isn't moving?

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sjonny

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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 09:29

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can i please have a answer to this because this is pretty necessary in my game.

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Kieran

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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 09:32

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if all fails use UV mapping

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Grog Grueslayer

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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 10:27

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Quote: "ok thanks that is what i got but how to position it in my game when it isn't moving?"

Quote: "can i please have a answer to this because this is pretty necessary in my game."

I don't do much in 3D but when you create objects they stay right where you created them. You can reposition an object with the "position object" command.

Syntax:
position object ObjectNumber,X#,Y#,Z#

Once that command is used it goes right back to staying where you put it till you move it again with that same command. If objects didn't have this staying ability whole buildings would fall apart when you move.

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sjonny

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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 11:05

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no it isn't that but when i position it it doesn't work with tdk_man's code. i tried to figure it out but it doesn't work.

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Grog Grueslayer

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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 14:13

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You just need to add some controls. The following uses TDKs code with the arrow keys, "Q", and "A" to move the object around the screen. It also shows the current x,y,z coordinates on the screen to show you just where that object is sitting in 3D space.

Rem Text On Object Snippet (DBC)
Rem (c) TDK Jan 2007
Rem V1 - Texture Whole Object

Gosub Setup
Input "Please Enter a Word: ";Word$
CLS
Gosub Create_Texture
Gosub Create_Object

` Create a timer (just so it doesn't move at 100mph)
tim=timer()
` Set the starting position of the object
x#=0:y#=0:z#=0
Do
  ` Show the current objects x,y,z coordinates
  text 0,0,"Object coordinates:"
  text 0,20,"  X = "+str$(x#)
  text 0,40,"  Y = "+str$(y#)
  text 0,60,"  Z = "+str$(z#)
    
  YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)
  
  ` Move Up
  if upkey() and timer()>tim+100
   inc y#
   tim=timer()
  endif
  
  ` Move Down
  if downkey() and timer()>tim+100
   dec y#
   tim=timer()
  endif
    
  ` Move Left 
  if leftkey() and timer()>tim+100
   dec x#
   tim=timer()
  endif

` Move Right
  if rightkey() and timer()>tim+100
   inc x#
   tim=timer()
  endif 
  
  ` Move away with the "Q" key
  if keystate(16) and timer()>tim+100
   inc z#
   tim=timer()
  endif
  
  ` Move closer with the "A" key
  if keystate(30) and timer()>tim+100
   dec z#
   tim=timer()
  endif
     
  ` Position the object using the x,y,z variables
  position object 1,x#,y#,z#

Sync
Loop

Create_Texture:
 Create Bitmap 1,320,200
 CLS RGB(255,0,0)
 Text 2,0,Word$
 TW=Text Width(Word$)
 TH=Text Height(Word$)
 Get Image 1,0,0,TW+4,TH+2
 Set Current Bitmap 0
 Delete Bitmap 1
Return

Create_Object:
  Make Object Box 1,10,6,6: Color Object 1,RGB(255,0,0)
  Make Object Plain 2,10,6
  Texture Object 2,1
  GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB 2,1,0
  OFFSET LIMB 2,0,0,0,-3.1
Return

Setup:
  Set Display Mode 800,600,16
  Sync On: Sync Rate 0: CLS 0
  AutoCam Off
  Position Camera 0,5,-20
  Point Camera 0,0,0
Return

+ Code Snippet

Rem Text On Object Snippet (DBC)
Rem (c) TDK Jan 2007
Rem V1 - Texture Whole Object


Gosub Setup
Input "Please Enter a Word: ";Word$
CLS
Gosub Create_Texture
Gosub Create_Object

` Create a timer (just so it doesn't move at 100mph)
tim=timer()
` Set the starting position of the object
x#=0:y#=0:z#=0
Do
  ` Show the current objects x,y,z coordinates
  text 0,0,"Object coordinates:"
  text 0,20,"  X = "+str$(x#)
  text 0,40,"  Y = "+str$(y#)
  text 0,60,"  Z = "+str$(z#)
    
  YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)
  
  ` Move Up
  if upkey() and timer()>tim+100
   inc y#
   tim=timer()
  endif
  
  ` Move Down
  if downkey() and timer()>tim+100
   dec y#
   tim=timer()
  endif
    
  ` Move Left 
  if leftkey() and timer()>tim+100
   dec x#
   tim=timer()
  endif

  ` Move Right
  if rightkey() and timer()>tim+100
   inc x#
   tim=timer()
  endif 
  
  ` Move away with the "Q" key
  if keystate(16) and timer()>tim+100
   inc z#
   tim=timer()
  endif
  
  ` Move closer with the "A" key
  if keystate(30) and timer()>tim+100
   dec z#
   tim=timer()
  endif
     
  ` Position the object using the x,y,z variables
  position object 1,x#,y#,z#

  Sync
Loop

Create_Texture:
 Create Bitmap 1,320,200
 CLS RGB(255,0,0)
 Text 2,0,Word$
 TW=Text Width(Word$)
 TH=Text Height(Word$)
 Get Image 1,0,0,TW+4,TH+2
 Set Current Bitmap 0
 Delete Bitmap 1
Return

Create_Object:
  Make Object Box 1,10,6,6: Color Object 1,RGB(255,0,0)
  Make Object Plain 2,10,6
  Texture Object 2,1
  GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB 2,1,0
  OFFSET LIMB 2,0,0,0,-3.1
Return

Setup:
  Set Display Mode 800,600,16
  Sync On: Sync Rate 0: CLS 0
  AutoCam Off
  Position Camera 0,5,-20
  Point Camera 0,0,0
Return

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sjonny

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Joined: 25th Nov 2006

Location: darkbasic classic

Posted: 18th Jan 2007 14:43

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im sorry for this late reaction. i tried to fix this but how can i position it for example between my walls?

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TDK

Retired Moderator

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Joined: 19th Nov 2002

Location: UK

Posted: 18th Jan 2007 15:55

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It's difficult to help you further, because you've not posted any code for us to look at.

However, your 'walls' have been placed in 3D space using X,Y,Z co-ordinates. In DB, ALL objects when created are placed at X=0, Y=0, Z=0 and you move them to where you want them with the POSITION OBJECT ObjNum,X,Y,Z command.

Have you got a floor (matrix)? If so, and you were directly above it looking straight down, the bottom left corner would be at co-ordinate 0,0,0.

From that corner, increasing the X co-ordiante of an object would move it to the right and increasing the Z co-ordinate would move it up. Increasing the Y co-ordinate would increase the height of the object above the floor.

So, you need to get a pen and paper and draw on it where the walls are, along with their X and Z co-ordinates.

Only then will you be able to calculate what X,Y,Z values to use in order to position something in a specific location.

TDK_Man

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sjonny

17

Years of Service

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Joined: 25th Nov 2006

Location: darkbasic classic

Posted: 18th Jan 2007 16:33

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i know where to place them but tdk_man i need to have it in your code that i can position the object which is used. so i need to combine this code:

tdk_mans code

+ Code Snippet

Rem Text On Object Snippet (DBC)
Rem (c) TDK Jan 2007
Rem V2 - Texture One Side Of Object

Gosub Setup
Input "Please Enter a Word: ";Word$
CLS
Gosub Create_Texture
Gosub Create_Object

Do
  YRotate Object 1,WrapValue(Object Angle Y(1)+1)
  Sync
Loop

Create_Texture:
 Create Bitmap 1,320,200
 CLS RGB(255,0,0)
 Text 2,0,Word$
 TW=Text Width(Word$)
 TH=Text Height(Word$)
 Get Image 1,0,0,TW+4,TH+2
 Set Current Bitmap 0
 Delete Bitmap 1
Return

Create_Object:
  Make Object Box 1,10,6,6: Color Object 1,RGB(255,0,0)
  Make Object Plain 2,10,6
  Texture Object 2,1
  GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB 2,1,0
  OFFSET LIMB 2,0,0,0,-3.1
Return

Setup:
  Set Display Mode 800,600,16
  Sync On: Sync Rate 0: CLS 0
  AutoCam Off
  Position Camera 0,5,-20
  Point Camera 0,0,0
Return

and the position object ( texture )

+ Code Snippet

 position object 2,775,47,175

i couldn't put it into your code for some reason maybe you can?

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IanM

Retired Moderator

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Joined: 11th Sep 2002

Location: In my moon base

Posted: 18th Jan 2007 18:10

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Think about it a little.

First, you want to position the object. Well, you can't do that until you have created it can you? So now you know that you want to put that command after the object creation somewhere.

Next, once an object is positioned, it won't move until *you* position it somewhere else. That suggests that you don't need to repeatedly position the object, which in turn suggests that you don't want to put the command within the loop.

Now, how many places are there where the code can go, after the object has been created, but before the loop?

For free Plug-ins and source code
http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
New Utility plugins collection

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