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Geek Culture / Site Redsigned

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AlexI
19
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Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Jan 2007 15:36 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 15:37
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Hello,
Instead of trying to make my existing website look any better, i have scrapped it and started out fresh. I took you advice at looking at other peoples sites for ideas and finally came up with this design http://www.fireproductions.co.uk/redesign/ i am really pleased with though i have not put all the pages in the new design yet. Please could you give me and comments or ideas or my new design.
Thanks,
Alex


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Nicholas Thompson
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Joined: 6th Sep 2004
Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 6th Jan 2007 16:19 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 16:21
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Thats a LOT better... Comments:
1) Do a little research into using styled DIV's for layout... Using tables is a bit of a no-no.

2) The header block doesn't seem to quite line up with the main block (I have a picky and pedantic eye )

3) try designing it so the background white (the white behind the main site block thing) is slightly greyed out (maybe #999999) - not VERY day, but enough to distinguish it from the main site

4) I like the outer-glow shadows, however they've been clipped to close so they look a little odd.. try either shrinking the shadow and keeping the same size image or give the shadow more room.

5) Use a little padding on the text inside to bring it in a bit - looks a bit close to the edge (imho)


Its looking a LOT better that before, much more designed. In terms of SEO, it's not a fantastic idea to use images for links in that the search engine cant see what the links about. Using text means the SE can see the word "projects" and know where that links goes - it helps it work out your site structure + it can help to describe the page content.

I REALLY like the flame header - very nice touch... Although it looks like a couple of the repeating blocks don't quite line up - they look about a pixel out.

EDIT:
What did you use to design it? I personally use Photoshop... Layering and effects are much better suited to web design and, once I got used to it, I really see why it costs more than Paint Shop Pro.

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Roxas
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Joined: 11th Nov 2005
Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 6th Jan 2007 19:05 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 19:11
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Thats nice! But i not sure if it's better than your old site because they both looks good! (if you compare to my site)

Oh btw here's my Work In Progress Register/Login site to my (m)morpg (no any graphical things yet just learning php)

http://soulsky.no-ip.org/

(Just press the login thing there and i know the site is crap)

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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AlexI
19
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Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 8th Jan 2007 22:52 Edited at: 8th Jan 2007 23:14
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Quote: "1) Do a little research into using styled DIV's for layout... Using tables is a bit of a no-no. "
I prefer tables

Quote: "2) The header block doesn't seem to quite line up with the main block (I have a picky and pedantic eye )"
too picky

Quote: "3) try designing it so the background white (the white behind the main site block thing) is slightly greyed out (maybe #999999) - not VERY day, but enough to distinguish it from the main site"
Done, do you think its different enough?

Quote: "5) Use a little padding on the text inside to bring it in a bit - looks a bit close to the edge (imho)"
I see what you mean but to do that it would remove alignment of the header,the edge and the footer. I should probably put it in another table

Quote: "I REALLY like the flame header - very nice touch... "
You finally like it it took along time!

Quote: " they look about a pixel out."
to picky

My whole new site all uses php and now to add content all i have to do is add it to a text file like MY TOPIC|PAGE|ETC so basically i have made my own CMS whilst i was at it. I think i will make like an admin panel now

Quote: "no any graphical things yet just learning php"
PHP is the best!! I recommend getting the book called "Web Development PHP & MYSQL"

Thanks,
Alex


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PowerSoft
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Joined: 10th Oct 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 8th Jan 2007 23:02
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If you want to be serious about it you need to have everything tidied up and neat. Take my site for example, http://theinnuendos.tk, it is one of my best sites in terms of back-end coding and the actual functionality of it. I am, however, not happy with the design of the site. There are certain elements (hyperlinks, background images, etc) that are in need of a tweak. Nothing (nearly) is tooo picky.

Use of tables is frowned upon and while I prefer 100% no tables I see the arguement of using tables, but for data display only. Use with a layout is a pretty big no-no (and also makes your site invalid with WCAG iirc).

On the topic of padding it isn't that much of a task, just add on a 0.5% or 1px or whatever padding you set in the CSS, piece of 3.141592...

At the end of the day, your site - your rules, but all we are offering is professional and amateur (as in unpaid) advice, whether you want to take it or not is another arguement. Also please don't perceive this slagging your site off etc but just helpful criticsm.

As Nick is doing likewise,

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
http://theinnuendos.tk:::http://myspace.com/theinnuendosrock
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 10:29
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hi - I'm getting a 404 on the redesign URL in your first post and I see no others to view...

1) Whether you prefer tables or not - they're not meant to be used for layout. Just because they "work" is irrelevant - its like using a straight head screw-driver for a plus-head screw. It might work - but sooner or later you'll regret it when you knacker the screw head. Tables are for presenting tabular data - not layout. But as Phaelax said, your site - your rules. If you want a site you can show off to people as an example of skill then you shouldn't use tables as it screams "I DONT KNOW WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE" whereas if its just a site for allowing people to download your games (ie you dont care about what people think about the site) then keep tables...

2) Picky - but true. If things dont line up it makes the whole site look amateur (ie you haven't paid attention to it)

3) Cant see it - no working URL

5) WHATEVER YOU DO - DONT NEST TABLES!! Trust me - nested tables aren't only bad in terms of page load times, breaking standards and excess page size due to immense amounts of code - they're a git to debug. You often end up losing where one cell ends and another starts - especially if you span a cell over multiple columns/rows. All you need to do is use CSS to add padding to the P tags (or whatever tag's you're using, I cant see the code)

Again - phalaex hit the nail on the hear. You asked for opinions and we're giving them! Picky or not, I will tell you everything I think about your site when you ask. If you dont wanna know - dont ask!

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Roxas
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Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 9th Jan 2007 13:51
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Quote: " Cant see it - no working URL"


Yes it's my hosted www server so the server isn't open 24/7 yet so the url isn't always working..

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 16:46 Edited at: 9th Jan 2007 16:47
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Interesting... The main site is working but the redesign URL shows a 404 (page not found)... My gut feeling is the server is online - but the URL no longer exists.

EDIT: Oh I see - you've converted the WHOLE site into the new theme... Ok

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 18:51
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Wrong name I believe Nick....Phaelax has posted in this post

Old age huh?

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
http://theinnuendos.tk:::http://myspace.com/theinnuendosrock
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AlexI
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 19:04 Edited at: 9th Jan 2007 19:04
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sorry i should of posted about changing the whole site


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PowerSoft
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 19:34
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Just another observation the navbar has a lot of content on it and in a pretty confined space. I know you should consider the '2/3 Click Rule' (I can get to where I want to go in that number of clicks) there is an, in my opinion, awful lot of links in that space. Do you need a search link when the Google bar is displayed on all pages?

Ideas..

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
http://theinnuendos.tk:::http://myspace.com/theinnuendosrock
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 21:39
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@PowerSoft: D'oh!!! In my defence, I was pre-caffeine

I also agree with the clutter comment... I'd leave the register and login buttons on the forum area as thats all they do.

I'd also look into the possibility of using text for links instead of images...
Reason 1: What if I'm using a screen reader? I cant read images
Reason 2: What if I'm browsing on a limited bandwidth connection (eg GPRS or 3G) and I disable images to save money. Suddenly your site is less navigatable
Reason 3: SEO - Google cant read images and therefore loses concept of structure on the site.

Another SEO point - every page is titled "Fire Productions" which is not particularly meaningfull and a waste of the most valuable tag on the page - the <title>. I dont know what code you've used - but maybe look into making the title controllable as that title is what appears in the google link.

Finally - Is it worth having a search box yet? It doesn't look like you have a massive amount of content. (this isn't an insult - just a suggestion for use of page space).

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Jess T
Retired Moderator
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Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 10th Jan 2007 13:00
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Nick,

Image links are generally fine if you use them correctly - Put in a 'Title' (for the link) and an 'Alt' property (for the image) and screen-readers will know what the image was, and what the link is without any troubles at all.

However, in this case, the use of images is a little unnecessary.
Like Nick said, text links can get you want you want with less image loading, and they're alot quicker and easier to change / update.

Take either my or Nick's as examples. Nice, easy-to-read text links that get the job done and are very easy to follow

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
http://jt0.org
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 14:35
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and lower in bandwidth...

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 15:35 Edited at: 10th Jan 2007 17:05
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Quote: "Wrong name I believe Nick....Phaelax has posted in this post "

Yea, I was a little confused.

I'd say one of the most important things about designing a site is its load time. I saw a recent survey stating that most web surfers only wait a few seconds for a page to load before leaving it.

Some sites claim the average website should be around 12kb (main page), which I believe is too unrealistic if you want any kind of images.

Josh sent me an interesting link last week about what is "Web 2.0". I'll have to find the link and share it with ya. It's worth taking a look at, whether you like the newer modern style of webpages or not.


Here's the link:
http://www.webdesignfromscratch.com/web-2.0-design-style-guide.cfm

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AlexI
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 17:37
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Quote: "every page is titled "Fire Productions""

That will be easy to fix, ill just make the php sort that out


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