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Geek Culture / Server prices?

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Sunflash
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 20:46 Edited at: 26th Jan 2007 06:35
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Hey, hypotheticly, say I was going to make an MMORPG... does anyone know of a good server under $5000?

Mountain Dew, happyness in a bottle.
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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 21:55
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Well, a server is just a computer with a server-capable OS.

But did you know the large MMORPGs often have thousands of servers?

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xtom
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 21:58
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Thousands? Surely that's an exaggeration.


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David R
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 22:17 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 22:18
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Quote: "Thousands? Surely that's an exaggeration."


It's not, a game like WoW will have several hundred server farms across the world, so thousands is highly likely


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
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AlanC
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 22:46 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 22:47
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I know there was a server hosting company. And they charged I think $30 a month. So its not cheap . What programming laugnage are you using? Or are you using something like Realm Crafter?

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UnderLord
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 23:22 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 23:23
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30$ a month is pretty cheap for a server....for a dedicated server, thats expensive like 100+USD

I think your best bet would to build your own server get a good server OS on it and put it in a data center, I don't know how data center pricing works but I do believe it might be cheaper to do that then to rent one...

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 01:51
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Keep in mind though that your mmorpg is unlikely to attract the attention immediately that WoW did. So a few servers is probably more than enough when you start out.

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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 01:53
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Quote: "mmorpg"


As soon as the word 'massively' comes in, then we presume there will be massive amounts of people. Otherwise it's just an MORPG, right?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 02:03
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...or when coming from indie programmers: NORPG (no-one online role-playing game).

EZrotate! TextureMax! Enhanced Animations! (coming soon....) 3D Character Maker! (coming soon....)
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Ethan
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 02:40
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What WOLF just said should be in the Indie Game Makers bible for every page; and I don't care if there isn't one already!
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Sunflash
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 03:11
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Lol, I'm not actually making an MMORPG, thats way out of my sight, I'm just loking into design theories, and maybe, just maybe I'll make a test MMORPG that just adds fake players and controls their movements using Dark A.I. or something, but even that is a bit out of my sights. Lol, I'm surprised I haven't been flamed to death for not being more clear about that

EDIT:
Yeah, $30 per month isn't bad at all. I would just be afraid that it wouldn't be able to handle something liek 1000-2000 players. Besides, I would rather buy a server then rent one... just as long as I could be sure my project (which dosn't exist) was able to make it on it's feet.

Oh, about WoW, they only have one server per world right? They just have a bunch of worlds don't they? ANyways, sorry if that dosn't make sense... I havn't played WoW yet *braces self for mob with sticks*
I bought it for my sister on christmas, but we havn't got it running yet for various annoying reasons, but hopfully within the week it will be working

EDIT:
OK, I've been thinking about it. Using a client/server structure for an MMORPG that allows up to 2000 ppl per server, how could the server keep up with incoming data, such as requests to update the players/NPC positions. And even when this has been done, the server still has to send data back to the user so that the media/camera can be updated!
Of course, obviously the user dosn't need data for every user on the server, they just need data from every user within a certain distance (data such as player positions, animations, etc). Anyways, my question is, how the bloody heck can one app on a server handle all this stuff?!?! I mean, thats gotta cost a TON of dough for just one server... unless I'm missing something VERY important about how data for MMORPGs are handled. But from reading through numerous MMORPG guids, this seemed to be what they were saying. But maybe I'm just underestimating the speed of a 4GB server... Can anyone correct me on this?

Mountain Dew, happyness in a bottle.
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 03:24 Edited at: 26th Jan 2007 03:53
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Quote: "What WOLF just said should be in the Indie Game Makers bible for every page; and I don't care if there isn't one already!"


omg, we should write one right now

The Game Creator's Game Making Bible

Chapter 1: Forum Conduct
--Section 1: Your age doesn't matter
--Section 2: D0nt sp33k l1k3 th1$
--Section 3: Accept others for who they are(shouldn't you're mommy have told you this already?)
--Section 4: Bitmaps are bad!
--Section 5: Team Requests = NO!
Chapter 2: Teh Codez
--Section 1: Don't ask for 'em
--Section 2: Attempt something yourself
Chapter 3: Types of posts
--Section 1: Questions are good!
--Section 2: WIP Posts: Dos and Don'ts
--Section 3: Code Snippets
--Section 4: Bug Reports: Are they really?
Chapter 4: Finally! Talking about game making!
-Section 1: Gametypes
- *FPS
- *RPG
- *Puzzles
- *RTS
- *Other Types of Games
- *Dare I say it? MMORPG!
Section 2: Organized Coding Techniques
Section 3: 3D Modeling Basics
Section 4: AI

Thats all i could think of so far i gotta go finish homework...

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 03:40
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you forgot the chapter: Team Requests = NO!

Michael Moore needs film making lessons from Aaron Russo: America: Freedom To Fascism
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 03:49 Edited at: 26th Jan 2007 03:53
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silly me *edits list*

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AlanC
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 04:03
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What program are you useing to make this MMO?

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Osiris
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 06:14
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Hey, anyone know how many servers Maple Story has?

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dark coder
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 08:43
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Quote: "Hey, anyone know how many servers Maple Story has?"


Pretty easy to tell, since when a channel goes down everyone is disconnected from that, which means they have 20 servers per realm, if that's the right word.

also for 30$ a month I doubt you would see more than 64player slots for a MMO style game, if it's for a FPS game or anything that requires alot of player to player data then 30$ will probably only get you 16-24slots, MMO's on the other hand don't have everyone within network range of eachother, so the bandwidth needed is usually alot less, but for 1000-2000 players, you're looking at a dedicated server with a fiber optic line, so the price would be around 500$ a month.

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Roxas
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 17:41
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No Maple Story has only 8 servers and those servers have 20 channels what are supported on some network dlls (winsock )

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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GatorHex
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 20:56 Edited at: 27th Jan 2007 15:01
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The Ultimate MMORPG Server is....

Sun Fire E25k
72 Sparc IV CPUs (1,164,995 bops AKA a million billion operations per second )
1Tb Ram (1,000,000 Mb RAM)
250 Tb HDD (250,000 Gb Hard Drive Space)
OS: Solaris (Linux like)
Height 2m (as tall as your dad)
Weight 1.1 Metric Tonnes (as heavy as your dads car)
Price to you sir $1,000,000



.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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dark coder
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 21:26
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Quote: "No Maple Story has only 8 servers and those servers have 20 channels what are supported on some network dlls"


I very highly doubt that very much, having 20 servers makes alot more sense, where's you rpoof to this? as I've seen the servers drop off like flys under heavy load, if your case was true they would all go down instantly, however that isn't the case, just some clever network coding, also explains why you cannot talk to people on other channels, also why it takes so long to switch between them.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 21:32 Edited at: 26th Jan 2007 21:57
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With only $5k and needing it to run Windows OS I'd go for something like the Sun Fire X4100 or X4200. Some models you can try free of charge for 60 days, cool!

Realy your 1st major problem is bandwidth, try renting floor space in a University they normaly have alot of bandwidth.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Sunflash
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 23:24
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@dark coder
I was hoping to get a dedicated server, but I can see that those would be quite expensive! But for an MMORPG with good quality, $500 bucks a month wouldn't really be all that bad. Thanks

Mountain Dew, happyness in a bottle.
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AlanC
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 04:08 Edited at: 27th Jan 2007 04:08
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data removed

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UnderLord
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 06:35
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You might want to start building your game before you start thinking of floor space or bandwidth needed....

Lets not get ahead of our selfs here...

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Sunflash
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 10:01
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Lol, again, I'm not making an MMORPG. I'm just studying up on it

Mountain Dew, happyness in a bottle.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 17:26
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Quote: "Lol, again, I'm not making an MMORPG. I'm just studying up on it"


My statement still stands

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Pricey
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 20:43
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me and my friends used to run a large scale 2D MRPG
using a clever system which linked everyone's pc together and used the processing power not being used by the game to manage the data. this system was not programmed by me.
i worked on the interface. it all fell apart in the end, but at its peak it was something really quite cool

i still have lots of documentation of how it all worked, its all very un-organsised which is one of the reasons it fell through...
we had about 30 people working on different parts.
it was good while it lasted =)

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=97191&b=32
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Silvester
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 21:01
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Many people Use Eclipse,As i do too,

But still...like eclipse has,too many requests from different actions or the same will crash your server.exe...

If me and my little brother on my game are Saving a game and logging in on the same time(Along with 19 different people already playing),the server just srashes with Subscript out of range or Out of memory.(Yes,VB6 errors...)

So having a good host isnt all,its also about the server application.

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Sunflash
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 07:27
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Quote: "My statement still stands"


Lol, point taken

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