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Geek Culture / DB-BOX

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Danmatsuma
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Location: Australia
Posted: 5th May 2003 18:43
Here's the premise:

A reasonable spec pc motherboard,
nvidia chipset graphics card with TV-out
40gig hdd
512megDDR
athlon 1800xp
2xusb force feedback joypads
cdromdvd drive
sbLive audio
Ultra minimal install of win98se or XP+directX
All packed into a low profile box using an pci and agp L-bracket adaptor to lay the cards flat against the mo/bo.

Hack the opening graphics screen that says windows 98 to display a splash screen ala sega but with DBPC somewhere in the title

Place in the startup group a batch program which runs a shell menu with these options:

System setup
Download new games
Play Stored Games
Delete/backup games

All with a unique console style menu system driven by the joypads, though optionally a keyboard can be plugged in.

The DB community would agree on a kind of autorun feature/standard install method for the games, and what you'd basically have is a kind of Xbox for pc games, specifically DB stuff. The aforementioned menu would automatically link via modem to a dedicated server allowing you to download demos and full version games for free.

The machine would be designed to plug into a video system and would also play dvd's and music cd's through the home hifi/theatre system...

The plans to build it would be provided free, but a custom box for the thing would be available from a supplier for those not technicaly minded enough to put the thing together themselves at a nominal fee.

The parts are all commonly available(it is after all just a pc)
But the joypad/keyboard dvd/cd drive inputs would be on the front, with power in, sound and video outs on the back.

The real difference between this and a regular pc would be in the menu system/netlink utility and hardware setup options conforming to a certain spec, and of course it would be quite portable and designed to be placed in the lounge room near the largest screen in the house, with the best sound etc

Just an idea I came up with when I was thinking of buying a laptop but found that I could easily build a portable computer designed to plug straight into a tv much like a ZXspectrum for about $500AUD rather than pay $1500AUD for a laptop with 1/3rd the power of this system.
Of course, I could provide plans for the thing to be run from batteries too, but really I was thinkin' when I go to my girlfriend's place I'd like to be able to code a bit hen the ideas hit, and can't lug a whole pc back'n forth on the train, Also I can't really justify the expense of a laptop at the moment.

Toy with this Idea, 'cos we could build our own XBox type thingies, of course the machines would be able to run any regular pc game too, a keyboard can be plugged in but most bios' have the option to ignore keyboard not found errors and if it boots to a shell and you map the right keys to the joypads do you really need a keyboard?
You could put a sytem like this together for about the same as you'd pay for a console+games and it's extras... I think it's worth thinkin' about, 'specially for the techies, I'm building meself one next week
ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Hubdule
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Location: Gundelsheim
Posted: 5th May 2003 18:58 Edited at: 5th May 2003 19:00
Check this out and build your "DB Box" small and easily !!!

(Very small pcs)
http://www.saintsong.com.tw

and
(cool looking small powerfull boxes)

http://www.spacewalker.com/index6.html

You'll be suprised how easy you can build small powerfull PC's which could also be plugged to your TV.

Danmatsuma
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:37
Yeah they're certainly cool, but lacking 3d hardware and pci expansion slots. My existing graphics card has tv-out(64meggeforce4-mx400) and all I'd have to do is set the display options to force detection of an analog video device and that would be fine for starters. Maybe I can draw for you what I have in mind...
Very rough!!

See if you can decipher that, pretty straightforward but rushed

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:39
looks like my VCR

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:42
As it should, if it's to fit underneath it, but yeah, could easily get something injection moulded that looks cool with some nice lights 'n stuff

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
the_winch
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:04
You might also want to do a search for pc mp3 players etc. as there are lots of people who have done this sort of thing before.

Looking at you diagram where are the fans? A system like that used for gaming is going to generate a fair bit of heat.

What about using laptop harddrives and dvd drives, it would push the cost up but could decrease the size,weight and arn't laptop drives more resistant to rough handleing.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:52
Looking at my diagram you'd be forgiven for thinking it was the schematic for a nuclear powered lavatory, but the whole point of this is to avoid laptop prices. Basically it's a pc stuffed unceremoniously into something the size of a small briefcase, so I can move it back'n forth, the power supply could even be external but the point is that the idea could be extended to create something like a pc console

Heat is easily dissipated by the use of 2 strategically placed fans and a heatsink built into the case, (ala ps2) with holes in the base also. The thing could concievably run cooler than my desktop pc, which only has one case fan

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2003 00:04
lol @ VCR

Always has, never will
Ian T
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Posted: 6th May 2003 01:02
Nice idea. But where is the keyboard? I hate using those stinky joysticks, gamepads and controllers .

Nice idea of course, but impossible. Nice to dream about...

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Arrow
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Posted: 6th May 2003 03:12
Three points.

1) DB can't use two joystick/pads at the same time, you have to make it so it switches back and forth between the two, which kills your speed.

2) Unless you're super wealthy, you're probably not gonna have a HDTV, which mean the picute quality would be worse than with a monitor.

3) There isn't enough DB produced software out there to warrent this project outside of a DB fan network.

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indi
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Posted: 6th May 2003 06:44
you should build an open tiered pyramid as the shell

Puffy
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Posted: 6th May 2003 06:52
Quote: "Three points.

1) DB can't use two joystick/pads at the same time, you have to make it so it switches back and forth between the two, which kills your speed.

2) Unless you're super wealthy, you're probably not gonna have a HDTV, which mean the picute quality would be worse than with a monitor.

3) There isn't enough DB produced software out there to warrent this project outside of a DB fan network."


1) Use 1 Joystick and 1 Keyboard(that has been mauled and looks like a joystick O_O... same output just have them both be USB and no one will know the diff o_O)

2) IM SUPER WEALTHY ^_^...

3) Your right!

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 6th May 2003 10:53
Hehe,

Mouse:
The keyboard plugs into the keyboard socket of course!, but is optional rather than nessecary in this configuration. The idea is about as impossible as cutting your fingernails if you have a modicum of technical expertise

Arrow:
1) dirextX does however, so .dll, and puffy's right, so many joystick drivers support keyboard mapping anyhow...
2) I enjoy playing games like jkii or unreal on my 32" T.V more than on my monitor 'Cos I can lay in bed and it reminds me of console days,
but having the thing in the loungeroom no matter the size of the t.v makes the experience of playing games something that is shared rather than solitary, I remember 10 of us huddled 'round super mario bros on the nintendo and we had a rank arena 28".
3) The thing is obviously not limited to db games, it's a PC, which means you can play pc games on it, any pc games, in your loungeroom, without filling the area around the t.v with ugly white goods. In my case I'll be using it for coding and media production when I'm at my girlfriend's place, but taking it home with me again to network to my other pc.

Indi: *lol*, I wonder, would that give it the 'vibes' to stop it from crashing? I remember something about people using wireframe pyramids over plants to make 'em grow better


The point of this post was just to see if people were enthused enough for me to bother making detailed plans for anyone to reproduce the idea, clearly not, but I'll post pics so those who have the technical experience could work it out for themselves if they want, and make the associated software/.dlls available for download anyhow seing as I'm building myself one

Perhaps people would be more interested to have my plans for a homebuilt motion capture system which can be built for under $200AUD...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
The admiral
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:09
It sounds like a great idea and we have heard of it before I always wanted to do this and id be glad to assist people with any knowledge I have. But would we be allowed to use directx on a commercial dbbox or something we will sell??

[href]www.vapournet.com/~flyer[/href]
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:16
It's not to sell, it's just a set of plans!! The only thing I briefly considered selling was an injection moulded case for the thing. Fro the reaction so far I don't think peeps are interested enough for me to bother with that, but I'll email you a detailed brwakdown of what's involved if your interested, I'm just slowly assembling parts over the next week, making sure they support as many of the features of dbpro as I can. But like I said the thing will have a shell which essentially does a search/replace for all shortcuts found in the subtree of c:\games and places them on a console style menu.
You can always exit to windows and use it like a regular pc, as I will be, pulling out a joypad and replacing it with a graphics tablet for texturing, or whatever. To me it'll also be a good thing to have as a networked pc 'cos it'll have a small footprint and be good for multiplayer dev

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Puffy
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:52
Quote: "wireframe pyramids over plants to make 'em grow better"


YUP!... and if you put stuff under say a plastic pyramid (say raw meat) it wont go bad... same with fruit... if you put something like a mouse under it ... then the mouse will live for a very very very long time... (or so I've seen)

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 6th May 2003 12:37 Edited at: 6th May 2003 12:39
Hehe I might try the raw meat experiment mmmmmm maggots

Here's a more legible pic of how it might work with an off the shelf lab equipment enclosure:



ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 16:05
hehee some fine editing there Dan
just a quick point about the controllers... Arrow you do that in C++ too, infact you tell me a program that CAN real ALL joysticks at the same time?

the only different between DarkBasic Pro and DirectX is you have to set each joystick on use - it doesn't kill the speed, i've used upto 16 on the USB without it affecting the programs speed ... all you have to do is setup a type for the joysticks prior to use

for example


you put that on an array and then just do a runtime of what the joysticks are doing at the start of the loop - and you're all set for multiplayer mayhem.

that aside, Dan's asked me for my ASM driver for the N64/GameCube pad which i can quite easily setup a DLL to pass all the joystick needs at once.
as i said if you change the joystick per loop or something or whenever you want it called, then sure that'd slow the game - but if you just array the data from all joypads/loop then it won't affect the gameplay.

personally i think a settop system for DarkBasic Professional is a cool idea - and personally i think the best setup would be a custom box, then use a technique we used to use on old 386's for more room, and make a bunch of connectors which extends the motherboard connectors - it will add time to the speed the longer the connection is, but unless you plan to make it over 30cm then you'll be fine, and most specilist computer hardware shops will make them up (the ones that will actually fixx your PC when it dies and you want it back) ... there arn't many around because it expensive, but i'm sure they can make a few connectors - i mean you just need a mini-atx board ... they're relatively small and have 3 slots + AGP

so Graphics/Modem/Lan/Soundcard - rather than a Keyboard/Mouse Slot setup the BIOS so it uses USB Keyboard and then use one of them instead - you can get a converter if you need it... but having 4 USB ports is far better.

you should get a PSU which is setup with a throughfan, preferably with a side bracket for another fan - and then use that to aircool the CPU by directly attaching it over the CPU and then its used as a fan for the CPU as well as the PSU. The Throughfan will automatically keep it cool enough.

also get a friend who knows howto reprogram the Windows Kernel, because it would be better to fit a cutdown version of the OS which relys entirely on DirectX - Console Developers get access to Library DirectX which is an upgrade for the SDK which allows you to recompile DirectX itself for use with specific hardware that you've designed the drivers for ... cuts out ALOT of overhead and makes it faster.

Personally I'd suggest you do this with the following Specs ->
Intel Pentium3 1.2Ghz (they run cooler than AMD and are smaller)
nForce2 Chipset (this gives you the MPU which would mean no need for a soundcard)
256Mb DDR2 Clk2 Ram (pretty cheap, and shouldn't need any more)
GeForce FX 5200 (this is not only cheap but powerful, and smaller than the GeForce4)
20Gbyte 3.5" Seagate (they're the most relyable under hotter atmospheres and a 20Gb is pretty cheap)
Philips/Panasonic 12x DVDROM (cheap & relyable)

i'd also get the Kernel recoded for a Unified Memory Usage (NTFS) rather than DOS 640k First Leg use... that way you can have the memory accessed by everything better.
i do have a good few ideas probably talk to you about them later

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
bitJericho
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Posted: 6th May 2003 19:24
if only i had the money to do this

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
Arrow
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Posted: 6th May 2003 21:15
I more interested in a home motion capature stuido, if I only could aford 16 webcams...

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 22:34
lmao... home motion capture with video cameras - well thats interesting

you know they use motion sensors which you can actually get from Maplin (not sure of the US equvilant) - Ti probably make them, well anyways the difficult part isn't getting the components but wiring them up - setting up the PCB and then making an asm driver which can understand the movement then setting it up so your program can understand the drivers.

sure it sounds easi enough lol

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 8th May 2003 11:41 Edited at: 8th May 2003 11:53
*lmao* 16 video camera's... No!

I'm talkin' about something for UNDER $200AUD, which involves many tiny (and cheap) devices called "hall effect sensors" and some little coils or magnets, probably magnets though coils would be more versatile.

it's a very electromechanical way to do things, and involves construction of an aluminium strut based exoskeleton, with these sensors at each joint, which are read one by one every [n] milliseconds (determined by the controlling program) to form a keyframe.

Q:How to get so many analog inputs read into the computer?
A:A device called a cmos analog switch, plus the 4 axis input of the standard joystick port.

Q:How to trigger the switching of the cmos from the computer?
A:Simplest yet yuckiest way is to put a ldr on the screen, or even better an IR reciever diode, and get the computer to flash that spot white every time you want to switch to read the next sensor.
Much nicer would be to use TAD's serial output plugin, but I'm not sure even TAD knows if it works yet...

This is really a glorified analog joystick, but with an axis for each degree of freedom you require to read for each joint, and serial input switched via the above method at the spped you require for each keyframe. Also, the hall effect sensors rather than potentiometers can provide greater accuracy, especially when combined with tiny coils which can be zeroed for each user of the exoskeleton.

Not actually very simple to the uninitiated I know, but really just time consuming for those who know their electromechanics, ie anyone who's ever built a robot would see this as just the feedback system of an android type robot without the actuators/solenoids/motors, the human wearing the exoskeleton provides the movement

[edit]

Raven: Some good ideas there, I looked about and found quite a few smallish atx mobo's with inbuilt geforce chipset's onboard and ac97 audio, but not a one had tv out, so it looks like the l-bracket agp/pci stuff has to stay in the design to keep the thing low profile. This allows for upgrades anyhow.

I do want to keep the majority of the o/s in mine (minimum install) so I can always plug in a keyboard and graphics tablet to use it as a second (portable) pc, but also so the thing can be used to play any pc game around, not just DB games. I think it'd be good though to keep DB strongly in mind so anyone who wanted to develop for it would know an exact spec to target.

There's a lot to discuss obviously, I'll be on msn later

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
indi
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:11
I think a joystick thats similar to the DB logo shape could be an alternative product.

Tie it into a set of functions that permitt twin joysticks or using a modular peice of hardware to link two of them would probably be a safe product to make.

each shape within the rounded shape could have either a directional joystick or divided into 4 buttons on one side as the shape could be divided to produce more buttons yet retain the original shape.

your competition would be stiff (logitech / microsoft etc.. )but your product starts with a community group of sales and anyone interested in purchasing a cool looking DB logo shape joypad could add to additional sales.

Designing a plastic mould in a cad package to fit the cheapest chasis of joypads would be easy to market / develop and patent without too much outlay.

Researching the cheapest chasis then designing the model requirements from this can be improved if the company already has a cad model design so u can scuplt your needs around the original shape.

Its just an idea because any pc base system thats not modular based has less of a shelf life than making your own system which can be upgraded with less trauma.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:20
well you can always just get a TVout Card or an SVGA->RF adapter, they're pretty cheap like $15-25
now i'm back online again i think i can talk to you about this again, cause i do have an idea - could help your and someone else, especially if your fixxated on having a GeForce based system.
i mean it is pretty simple to develop something with existing tech which will push limits far faster than current consoles - but not cost a bomb like current systems

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:59
Yeah I'm basically back to using an agp card with tv-out, RF adapters really screw with the quality of signal, better to just send the composite signal out, anyone can get an rf adapter if they need to plug it into a 70's rank arena
Not nessecarily fixated on Geforce, but it really does seem to be the most compatible and cheap solution, anyway I'm gonna have something to eat then I'll be on msn

Indi: That's not a bad idea really, but probably better handled by dbs and an existing manufacturer, I'm more into designing this set top pc in an open source kinda way, with a db perspective in mind though not exclusively db software supported, then releasing a detailed set of plans so that people can build it. If further down the track it looks worth it I could offer a kit or something, but so could anyone else who read the plans

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
David T
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Posted: 9th May 2003 20:56
Danmatsuma: I wouldn't be surprised if, what you described in the initial post, were the steps taken by MS to build and XBOX. Come on, think about it - it's entirely possible.

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
indi
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Posted: 10th May 2003 05:15
My only concern is that a lot of clued up people prefer seperate devices for each component, any onboard stuff to me is like inferior to a slot and a dedicated card.

Also a horizontal box reeks of the old days and slow cpus.
IT may not be the case in this example but yeah have an option to purchase a vertical or hirizontal tower perhaps.

Ian T
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Posted: 10th May 2003 07:28
I meant impossible as in 'it's not going to happen', not impossible as in 'it can't happen'. Both hold just as much sway in The Universe , you know...

As I said, it's a very nice idea...

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Puffy
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Posted: 10th May 2003 10:49
o_O People said I could never eat a tuna sandwitch from a gas station... O_O and guess what... I did...

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 10th May 2003 12:18
Hehe I like the sandwiches from those places too, 'specially the corned beef&pickle&cheese ones 2 days after the use by date has expired, yummm

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Puffy
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Posted: 10th May 2003 17:12
=P ... I feel like dieing...

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 10th May 2003 18:23
Hey mouse, have some faith, things like this are really a walk in the park to me, it will definitely happen, I usually deliver when I announce something, and this will be no exception. Later next week I'll have the cash for prototype parts, and the week after I'll probably do a resin cast of a box to put it in. I'll write the shell menu, which will be designed to run on any pc btw, just launching games from joypad menus etc... That's something peeps'll be able to try out on their desktop pc's to see how the box might work.

Though my game project "Lester the Panty Theif" is taking most of my time at the moment

David89: perhaps, though I think microsoft would've started with a thorough market analysis

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 10th May 2003 18:37
Hehe fuzzy, At least I gave you constructive criticism on the fish game, which could be a lot of fun if you have any coding skills at all... Personally I don't really mind your scepticism, 'cos this is something I'm building for my convenience, not yours, but pray tell, what will you do If you catch me building this thing (which you will) hehehe

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Arrow
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Posted: 10th May 2003 20:27
Ah jeeze, I hope fuzzy doesn't turn in to another Shadow Robert.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th May 2003 21:11
most DvD drives have the option to be placed sideways - as long as you get one which has those little thingie to keep the CD's in place then there isn't a problem with putting it on it's side like a PS2.

but still i'm hoping to get Dan into the SpaceCube, because the stylish micro-cases are what all the rage at the moment (plus thier so darn cute!!)
doesn't really matter what others are gonna say about this or not, cause Dan will make it regardless if other want to also know where to get the bits to make thier own - cause first and formost this is more his own personal project he's just getting peoples opinions and help on what he should do.

but i agree with Indi - onboard cards are the spawn of satan
oki but seriously they're not upto much cop, oftenly the shared ram system use Via chipsets which are just pathetic.
if i were you i'd go for an nForce motherboard because yeah they have GeForce GPU's onboard, but they're setup by a company who weren't trying to make a cheap motherboard, but a bloody good business solution.
nForce3 Pro has just been released with a nForce GPU (w/FX Technology) - certainly is a powerful business solution, onboard sound, graphics & networking.
so not really any need for any other cards added on, but there is always the option there

Currently they setup specifically for Dual&Quad Opteron/Optiron (before anyone wonders why i've spelt the same word differently, they are two DIFFERENT processors... i do remember how people liked to think i got the names wrong)64bit processors, but should also serve Althon/XP/MP & Duron Processors.

i've just got a new system as you know, but i'm definately wanting to save up for a new rig - and i've got my eye on a $68,000 one at the moment which has 4x QuadroFX 2500(in testing right now), nForce3 Pro, Creative Audilgy3, Quad Opteron DL 3.5Ghz, 40Gb OptronicRam (oh yeah kiddies IBM have officially released this into the world and the holographic ram is available for the nForce3 Pro chipset!)

oki so perhaps i can just dream about getting it for a good 7months until my money is secure enough to get it - but christ i can only imagine what the pure power will be of it
i think i can say goodbye to wondering how long a scene will take to render thats for sure hehee

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
David T
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Posted: 10th May 2003 23:00
This could be very interesting. If so, can you make it so we have to write some sort of shell menu in dbp and can I write it? I'd love to do that

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
Ian T
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Posted: 11th May 2003 03:15
Dan-- I have faith in ya . Both types of impossible are easily broken... for example, the 'can't happen' type was smashed to bits when Microsoft began turning into the monster it is now

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 11th May 2003 11:31
Hehe, raven's out to turn everyone green

Yeah as I said a few posts back, I only considered an onboard all in one briefly as a size consideration, but I went back to the original idea of the l/bracket pci/agp solution to allow for upgradability and superior performance.

The cube idea I like 'specially seeing the spacecube thingies at watford, but my only problem is most people's lounge room hifi/dvd/video equipment is horizontal, which means it's gonna be harder to fit a cube into a stacked system than a larger oblong, but in the end, the thing can obviously be made into any shape the parts allow. To me though, form follows function in this case. I also want mine to be portable, perhaps even with a handle but when I imagine walkin' about with a cube I can already feel it bashing against my thigh in an unnerving way...

I have some experience in making prototype enclosures using injected resin molding techniques, but I'll leave that until I've assembled all the parts and have a concrete idea of the space I have to work with.

David89: I'm a way off from the menu, but if once it comes time to write it, and it'll actually need to be quite open in terms of development. Once I get to the point of actual software development I'll probably put a message in the team request section, because there'll need to be a few aspects for which I haven't the time, money or inclination to set up myself, such as web hosting a central site for upgrades/skins/profiles/plans etc... A clever buisnessman/woman could easily find affiliate companies to advertize on the site and make it simpler to get high quality parts that meet the spec that I'm gonna probably argue about with Raven, 'cos he knows his hardware, but I've got to consider cost/availability, I want the basic system to be as affordable as a cheap pc, but have maximum bang for the buck... I don't see why a system like this couldn't grow into what I feel the xbox could have been, a machine which can run any software you can download off the internet or burn onto a cd.
That includes using it as a sega master system, nintendo zx spectrum, c64, right up to a ps1/2 etc and when someone finds a way, I don't see why it couldn't run xbox software also


All the tech is there to make this possible, the reason it won't happen any other way(the xbox could easily have been this is that there's no way to charge for the machine, and that's just not viable for a company to do. The only thing I considered 'selling' is a kit rather than finding all the bits to meet the spec yourself.

The menu would have options to turn the pc into any other machine via existing emulators, the choice of which I'm sure all of us will debate over until we find the most compatible ones, and Also, you can always exit to windows and use the thing as a normal pc, though pc games would be implemented as a "put the cd in and run" or select stored game and run type solution

Another part of hosting would be a place for all db coders to link to and have the machine download demo's/free games through a special browser.

There's a lot of work involved in that stuff, and it's kind of a seperate project in itself, quite apart from the actual console-PC, but the thing is If the console-PC has a spec, developer's can work with that in mind.

Just a few ideas to chew on, you know all I wanted it for was to run db and some media creation software on the thing at my girl's house, without having to buy a laptop but the idea grew into this
It's all extremely possible, and is only a matter of time before it becomes reality.

Anyone with ideas for the project should post them here, the concept and framework is there, but has obvious room for development

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
indi
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Posted: 11th May 2003 17:35
Fuzzy and megaton u share the same ip address.

If u continue to spam and insult users on these boards u might not be welcome here any more.

/me waves hand over shiny red button but doesnt press it.

heartbone
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Posted: 11th May 2003 17:46
Raven you may want to check this out for yur next rig.
Actuality Systems

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
the_winch
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Posted: 11th May 2003 18:32
I would definatly go for a custom case as it's the only way to fully maximise the available space. I would also look for onboard network/modem as that is potentially one less card.

Video playback would be good as well, having to make low quality video cds to watch video on the tv is a pain.

I am actually thinking about replacing my old mp3 playing box with a much faster system that would be a lot more capable.

The problem areas are the cd/dvd drive and the powersuppy. They are big and bulky.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th May 2003 18:58 Edited at: 11th May 2003 19:01
push it
stupid second pages lol

OMG!!! I MUST HAVE THAT!!!!!
man... i think i've just for a new obscession - owning that piece of kit

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
ClearCoder
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Posted: 12th May 2003 00:34
hey dan i really like the idea i'm moving house soon so it would be great. My brother has a PS2 and i don't so i think i might get one of these instead
crystal

Newbie Now; Expert Later
Current project:The Sorus
Puffy
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Posted: 12th May 2003 00:45
Nifty hologram...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
ClearCoder
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Posted: 12th May 2003 01:14 Edited at: 12th May 2003 01:15
yeah well i thought i was cool being crystal clear and all

Newbie Now; Expert Later
Current project:The Sorus
Ian T
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Posted: 12th May 2003 05:28
It isn't as 3d as it looks from the review I saw. It looks 3d, but the whole world dosen't rotate when you move around it.

Not sure if that's correct though.

Could we have THAT for the DB Box ? It'd sure make Star Wraith 3 look goooooooood

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th May 2003 10:01
I just had this ridiculous flash of a life drawing class standing around a giant version of that projector and drawing life models from a 3d hologram.. Be nice once they make 'em larger

And Indi, have pity! Don't push the button yet! Fuzzy still ain't told me what he's gonna do if he 'catches me building that thing'

Mouse: you can plug anything you can plug into a pc into the console, but can you afford such a peripheral??

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th May 2003 19:26
aww ... and Dan was looking forward to some Fuzzy time

right now i'm looking at the viability of the SpaceCube+nForce2 and a GeForceFX i'll get back to you - right now i think i can get you a
SpaceCube
AthlonXP 2200+ (2.0Ghz)
512Mb DDR2 Ram
GeForceFX 5400

for around $450 which includes nForce2 MPU which is pretty cool

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Ian T
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Posted: 12th May 2003 19:28
Dan- that's why I was asking you whether it'd come standard ... seems I need to work on polishing up my evil plans a bit more

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
AGamer
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Posted: 12th May 2003 23:30
wow i want one of these

There's no game made for you except the one's made your self

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