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Geek Culture / Intel's 80 core

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Osiris
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 01:54
Intel introduced a crazy fast 80 core processor the size of your fingernail. Yes 80 cores, it computes one trillion calculations per second. Now how hot do you guys think this thing gets...and how hard do you think it will be to code for, I mean companies are struggling to code for two and four.

This still is not the most cores ever put into one, a company called ClearSpeed put 95 into theirs, but Intel is the first manufacture to release it with the goal of making it generally available. Which would be nice because its as fast as a 2,000 square foot supercomputer, somewhat like deepblue, the chess computer.

Heres a pic:


http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/11/intel-demonstrates-80-core-processor/

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 01:57
Industrial cooling equipment...

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Peter H
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 02:19
Quote: "the size of your fingernail."

Quote: "apparently the test chip is much larger than equivalent chips -- 275 mm squared, versus a typical Core 2 Duo's 143 mm squared"

is my finger nail really 275 mm squared?

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
LD52
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 02:38
Quote: "is my finger nail really 275 mm squared?"


Mine is
Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 02:58
Quote: "Mine is"

You must have really wide fingers.

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Osiris
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:42
No I meant the chips, not the assembly. Lol.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:43
Is this a joke?

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Osiris
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:43
What?

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UnderLord
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:45
I read the article....80 cores? hard to believe....but i guess anything *IS* possible....

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Osiris
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:47
Well, ClearSpeed make a 95 core one.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 05:49
...



ahh i don't have my caps lock on jesus!!!

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Feb 2007 12:05
Well I heard apple made a terabyte hard drive small enough to fit into an iPod, so why not Intel making an 80 core processor? Well lets hope to see this one on the market then dudes.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
Pricey
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:51
as far i can see, you should just be able to program normally for it
the routers direct different instructions to each of the cores.

i'm probably wrong.

Osiris
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 06:47
I think you need to assign everything individually, IE: Sound to core 1, Video to core 2-7, ect...

I could be wrong too lol

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 07:42
Yeah, it appears to be Intel's version of the Cell...

The actual cores in the array wouldn't be like the super scalar behemoths were using today, rather just a bare bones no frills chip. (Less transistors) So they can jam more of them in due to today's production techniques.

As a result. You'd probably get much slower performance individually. But if you can design programs that work in parallel, you can offset the load across the network of available cores.

If cores are then specialize instruction sets, ie like shaders instruction sets, then the role of the modern GPU is virtually redundant.

Osiris
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 07:50
Indeed.

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indi
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 07:51
a few years ago i read about an 80 gigahertz cpu with a zirconium diamond board for the heat resistant qualities. Its use would be in mobile phone towers until slowly released to the common man, combine that with 80 cores and that would be very interesting indeed.

Osiris
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 07:53
Yes, and very expensive lol.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 19:31
I heard that a little while ago ( I think at MIT) they lowered a super computer into liquid nitrogen in order to get it up-to i think it was 5 terahertz or whatever comes after gigahertz....I'll have to find the article.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Raven
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 16:39
I doubt they would've got that sort of performance from a processor.
The reason that CPU manufacturers have moved from a traditional single core to multiple core solutions is because with their current development techniques they'd hit a plateu in terms of what they could put in to the chip.

Good example is the research paper that AMD released about 2years ago, where they took their then "new" Athlon64 processor and tried to over-clock it to the maximum possible.
While it could reach 8GHz (bear in mind this is a 2.5GHz variant) that was the maximum speed they could reach without instability.
As the stability of the processor doesn't just depend on the heat produced from the over-clocking but the powerwaste in general.

Single Cores, hit their limits because the more power they put in; the more power got wasted (which is what produces the heat) so there is a limit to how much power you can phsyically put into them before you reach that limit.

Easiest way to imagine what I'm talking about (provided you all have a basic phsyics understanding) is when you try to reach the speed of light. The faster you go, the more force is being put against you until you reach the speed of light when the force you put in will always be equaled by the reaction force. Thus making it currently impossible with our level of technology to break that speed barrier. It's the same with processors. The manufacturers' know full well that it's the way they're being designed that causes this limitation, but until they can figure out how to compensate or break this limitation then they've decided to go with adding more cores and get extra performance from more devices in a smaller space.

The Cell and Intel C80 honestly aren't really the same as the multi-core processors hitting the market right now. They're actually ridiculously specialised making them useless for general computer uses; but if programmed for correctly they can be quite useful for specialised applications.

Before Cell was even announced ATI (AMD) had already created a Unified Shader Core, which is almost identical to Cell but with between 6-12 Shader Cores. Physical data wise, working with Floating-Points which is what they seem to prefer to boast about now when talking about performance the performance from GPUs has always been far beyond that of CPUs.

Good example is PS3 is claimed to have 2TFlop performance.
1.8 of that comes from the RSX GPU.. which ment that the CPU was actually slightly more powerful than the Xbox CPU. Despite the claims comming from IBM and Sony.

Just hope Intel have thought ahead unlike IBM. Because the Cell is a nightmare to get any sort of reasonable performance from; It's not like multi-core processors where you can either set-up threads to do different tasks but hope that the control chip splits up data correctly to be processed.

There's also no fall-back, meaning everything is converted to floating-point rather than having a seperate integer and operator access through the CPU. It's all very poorly done and messy.

Mikey P
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 16:54
The article I read about this, (Which I think was the one in a slashdot post) said that Intel had no intention of ever releasing this for public release anyway. Apparently the research was to aid the development of multi-core CPUs like the ones being sold at the moment.

Quote: "Easiest way to imagine what I'm talking about (provided you all have a basic phsyics understanding) is when you try to reach the speed of light. The faster you go, the more force is being put against you until you reach the speed of light when the force you put in will always be equaled by the reaction force."


Forgive my naivety, I'm curious. Why does this happen? I mean, once you reach a terminal velocity at a regular speed, you can always go higher, why when reaching a terminal velocity at the speed of light can you not go faster?

UnderLord
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 18:07
I think you could go faster then the speed of light, its just it will take an insane amount of energy to do it. But in Star Trek it was no problem

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
BatVink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 18:30
Quote: "is my finger nail really 275 mm squared?"


I admit, I measured my thumbnail - 300 mm squared. That's only 1.5 cm * 2 cm.

Now back to the CPU...



Samoz83
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:03
you can't go as fast or faster than the speed of light bescause you you have too much mass, so unless you have no mass at all or hook onto something with no mass then you can't go at the speed of light.

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RalphY
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:40
It's to do with e=mc^2, basically when you reach the speed of light you have infinite mass, or to look at it another way, it would take an infinite amount of energy to reach the speed of light iirc.
Raven
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:41
reason is the resistance slowly increases leading up to the speed of light.

so basically once you hit the speed of light you're own mass = resistance. thus you can't go any quicker, the only way around it would be to make the mass less than zero so that resistance would then work in reverse causing it to actually drag you forward.

there's some research going on right now to make that possible but currently it just isn't possible with our technology.

IanM
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:55
There is no resistance in theoretical physics. That would require something to resist to be present - the aether - something that has not been detected so far, and is pretty much a discredited idea.

There's one of Einstein's equations, that has been tested against reality, that gives the total energy within a system:

E = mc2/sqrt(1 - v2/c2) ... imagine that those '2's are 'squared'

Now feed in values where the velocity is equal to the speed-of-light - you'll see that the sqrt of the result inside the brackets is 0, the sqrt of which is 0, and then you're dividing by zero which gives a result of infinity. If the system has infinite energy, then you must have fed infinite energy into it.

If you use velocities of C-10 to C-1, you'll see that the increase isn't linear, but gives a curve that gets steeper as you increase velocity (imagine a graph with energy on the vertical axis, velocity on the horizontal axis).

Ok, I'm crap at explaining this stuff, but I hope that gives the right picture.

Steve J
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 07:49
And to produce infinite energy we could access something which even energy cant escape? (Black Holes Perhaps) They seem to be able to attract things at ftl speeds, since they attract light...

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Raven
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 08:01
Quote: "There is no resistance in theoretical physics. That would require something to resist to be present - the aether - something that has not been detected so far, and is pretty much a discredited idea."


Action -> <- ReAction

It's easier to explain it to people as "resistance" despite the fact that theoretically it isn't, in a practical sense it is.
Last thing I really want to do is explain that when you push on something you're not actually moving it but the reaction force is pulling it, based on the energy being put on to the original object.

Just not worth the hassle of it.

Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 17:10
Quote: "The faster you go, the more force is being put against you until you reach the speed of light when the force you put in will always be equaled by the reaction force. Thus making it currently impossible with our level of technology to break that speed barrier."




There in no resistive force, and no reaction force.

As an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass increases. At the speed of light, it would be infinite.

It's not a matter of insufficient technology, it is completely impossible for an object with mass to move at the speed of light.

Quote: "there's some research going on right now to make that possible"


He jests.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Raven
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 17:22
Quote: "There in no resistive force, and no reaction force.

As an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass increases. At the speed of light, it would be infinite."


Alright, well then mind explaining to me WHY the mass of an object is so important compared to the energy input?
C'mon I'm sure they explained this in physics class.

Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 18:01
It's doesn't concern energy either.

If you want to accelerate something at a certain rate, you have to apply a force proportional to its mass.

Clearly it has nothing to do with resistive forces because if an object was traveling through a vacuum, nothing would resist its motion, but it couldn't travel at the speed of light.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Raven
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 19:23
Oh for the love of god.. go read a GCSE physics book.

IanM
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 19:38
@Steve J,
Black holes don't have infinite energy ... just a lot concentrated at a single point.

@Raven, Chris K,
Mass and Energy are equivalent. As the energy within a system increases (say by accelerating it), the mass of that system will increase too. As the mass is now greater, it will take more energy to accelerate it by the same amount again, which will increase it's mass again ... and so on. As you get closer to C, you need ever increasing amounts of energy (as explained by that equation).

So, to accelerate something to the speed of light you need:

1. Infinite energy.

or

2. Infinite time to apply the acceleration.

or

3. Something not yet discovered.

empty
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 20:06
Quote: "3. Something not yet discovered."

The warp drive for example.

Apparently the complexity of CPU cores that we have now is almost at the border of what is possible with the current CMOS manufacturing technology. That includes the cost factor of course. So rather that struggling with heat dissipation and sync problems it makes sense to increase the CPU cores instead.

Osiris
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 22:07
Quote: "He jests."


People, a Harvard study took a particle of matter, and launched it faster than the speed of light, only one yes, and only for a very tiny amount of time, but they did it, it was on digg people.

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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 23:44
It can't of have had mass.
Must have been a taciton (?) or something.

Still waiting for an explanation as to where a resistance force in a vacuum comes from...

GCSE Physics just said "Raven makes up stuff to sound intelligent, but invariably fails".

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Peter H
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 23:45
Quote: "it was on digg people."

that makes it 100% reliable

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Osiris
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 02:32
Lol, it was from Harvard. Lol also I meant a particle of light.

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Steve J
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 02:41
@Chris K: I believe that is called Gravity....

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Vampiric
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 12:32
Doesn't a particle of light (photon i think) move at the speed of light anyway?

Computer says n00bed
Kentaree
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 14:20
Well, theoretically, if energy can't move faster than the speed of light, and someone would move faster than the speed of light, the subatomic forces wouldn't be able to keep up and matter would disintegrate... Never mind what a collision at that speed would do with even a tiny spec of spacedust

UnderLord
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 14:43
Quote: "taciton (?) or something."


Tachyon is what your trying to spell....

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
IanM
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 15:17 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2007 15:41
@Osiris,
You are thinking of quantum tunnelling. Actually, the particles and photons that they use don't 'travel' from point a to point b - they actually 'jumped', kind of like a very short distance teleportation. The uncertainty principle in action.

[EDIT]Incidentally, that's the same thing that causes the problems with smaller processor sizes - electrons 'leak' between the circuits, so you increase voltages to overcome the losses and drown out the gains in other circuits. Higher voltages then make the processor run hotter.[/EDIT]

As for tachyons - supposedly particles with a negative mass - no-one has proven that they exist.

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