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Geek Culture / Vista... to buy or not to buy?

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David R
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 21:12 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2007 21:14
Well, with all the talk of Vista being good/bad, I thought it was topical to ask this.

I'm planning to purchase an OEM version of Windows Vista Premium very soon (I'm already aware of the pro's/cons of the OEM licence by the way, that's not what I'm asking about).

Although buying Vista is semi-inevitable for me (because I need to ensure my C++ apps work with Vista 100%, and I love having the 'hip and current' Windows OS) I would just like a general consensus (preferably non-biased as such, although that's is impossible) on whether it's worth buying or not -

Worth buying?
Worth going all the way and getting Ultimate?
Pro's/Cons of XP->Vista?
Overall Impression?

Any info on Vista at all in regards to any of this will be very helpful (and thanks in advance)


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 22:30
Just to say, if your going to get it, go all out and get the ultimate version, or else it will seem empty.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120....
GatorHex
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 02:18
I wouldn't bother spending £90 on it as an upgrade it'll probably stuff up your current software anyway. I'm just gona wait until I need a new PC and it comes with it, maybe in a year or so all the bugs and security flaws will be fixed too

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 02:23
Wait a year or two. I hear it's not as good as people say it is. I'm actually helping a friend revert back to XP. I got XP Media Center Edition, cool, yet compatible.

If it was me, I wouldn't pay all that cash.
_Nemesis_
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 02:50 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2007 02:51
You've probably heard my opinion in IRC quite a lot, but I don't regret upgrading to Vista at all. I've got Ultimate on my desktop and Home Premium on my Media Center and quite frankly, there's little difference. I wasn't to find that I couldn't run Virtual PC on Home Premium - but since it's a Media Center I wasn't really realistically looking to run it on that given that my main PC runs Ultimate. There's a couple of other things that only work on the Business line + Ultimate, so you might want to check up on those.

If you know anyone with a Vista DVD, you can install it for 30 days on an evaluation period (which AFAIK is perfectly legal - though don't quote me on that) without entering a product key which might give you a chance to take a look at any program incompatibilities etc. You can obviously uninstall within this period if it's an upgrade installation

Quite a few people would disagree with me on this, but I've found Vista to be a hell of a lot more responsive and generally faster than XP on my machine. When drivers are installed, and the general software library, it not only performs faster but starts up faster and responds quicker. Whilst there are a few driver issues here and there which cause a few problems, it's really only a matter of time before they get solved. If you're going to install the 64-bit version though, you should note that quite a lot of the XP 64-bit drivers for more obscure hardware don't work at all so you might want to consider the 32-bit version.

You might want to make sure you've got a gig of RAM as well. Yes, it guzzles RAM but funnily enough, I think in comparison to XP it makes a lot better use of it. Superfetch makes loading of common libraries and programs a lot faster by keeping them in RAM - and in some cases the difference is clearly noticeable. If you've got any method of monitoring RAM levels, you can see windows unloading some of these things when you run strenuous applications, so whilst there's always quite a high level of RAM being used it's not as much to worry about as people are making out.

I'm running XP in a Virtual PC for the number of applications that just aren't totally compatible with Vista yet - and this is perhaps the biggest downfall to Vista at the moment. The application compatibility program supplied by Microsoft does a good job at identifying compatibility issues with programs that are installed at the moment but it's not a great deal of use when you're going to buy new software - there isn't really a good way of telling if it's compatible or not, and for this reason it may be worth waiting a few months for the software market to adjust and release updates etc.

On the whole though, with UAC etc, there's a greater feeling of security that XP didn't really have from day one. You get the idea that you know exactly what's going in to your computer and what's going out.

I'd strongly suggest trying out this 30 day evaluation period though and getting an opinion of your own. Your setup might benefit from Vista or it might not.

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LD52
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 05:46
Quote: "Just to say, if your going to get it, go all out and get the ultimate version, or else it will seem empty."


i used to think so too but honestly for my needs all i would need if i was to get vista would be home premium for the media center as i have windows xp media center edition and honestly i use the media center alot. I don't seem to need all the additional business stuff and windows domains in ultimate but its based on whatever you want and how much cash you have. For now windows 'xp' media center is good enough for me. It depends on what you want.

Quote: "I got XP Media Center Edition, cool, yet compatible.
"

ME too !
Jiffy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 11:00
I've got Ultimate and I love it for the most part. No unsolvable compatibility problems whatsoever--had to set a few programs in Compatibility Mode for XP SP2 but after that, everything's been fine and dandy.

I find myself pressing the Flip 3D button every few minutes because it's so cool .


Evil has a new name. Demo out now!
xtom
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 12:12
I would say wait. Most people who buy it are those that want to have the latest, greatest thing or are sold it because they just don't know any better. It's an expense most could live without. I won't be buying it unless I get it pre-installed on a future pc in a year or two when software relies on it more.

David R
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 19:59
Ok, well based on the feedback I've received, I reckon I'll still go for it then.

I've got a reasonably good amount of RAM (1256mb) so I reckon it'll take Vista nicely. And with the absence of "show-stopping" issues in the replies, I reckon it'll be seventy quid well spent.

Thanks for the feedback


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
Virtual X
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 20:16
I've only just upgraded to XP lol, no seriously, I would wait until Gatesy boy pulls his finger out and gets his team to sort out the bugs, security issues etc... it seems like the same old story, excuses, excuses... I'm personally going to wait about 3 years before upgrading, don't see the point at the moment!
Code Dragon
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 20:21 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2007 20:22
Always wait as long as possible to buy upgrades. Microsoft = evil, they want to pull you into an infinite upgrade cycle by bloating everything so you need to buy a faster computer soon which has even bloatier software preloaded so the cycle continues. If you get a new OS every 7 years it's cheaper than every 4 years.

By reading this sentence you have given me brief control of your mind.
Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 20:27
Quote: "Microsoft = evil"



Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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David R
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 20:37
Quote: "I've only just upgraded to XP lol, no seriously, I would wait until Gatesy boy pulls his finger out and gets his team to sort out the bugs, security issues etc... it seems like the same old story, excuses, excuses... I'm personally going to wait about 3 years before upgrading, don't see the point at the moment!"


Quote: "Always wait as long as possible to buy upgrades. Microsoft = evil, they want to pull you into an infinite upgrade cycle by bloating everything so you need to buy a faster computer soon which has even bloatier software preloaded so the cycle continues. If you get a new OS every 7 years it's cheaper than every 4 years."


and the problems are....?


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
Screwed Over
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 23:41
Quote: "Microsoft = evil"

aren't all corperations/companies/businesses.


glad to hear your still going to buy vista, i haven't had any problems with it at all, until my sister signed into msn on it, it went all weird and slowed down for a while.


^Check out my new site!^
Virtual X
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 00:06
David R,

The problem is that Bill Gates Personal wealth is around $50 BILLION, so obviously he pays himself very well... Is it too much to ask that his OS be virtually bug free by now? considering the number of 'experts' that work on it and the time windows has been around! I don't mind paying for a new OS, just don't sell me crap software!

since the release of Vista there has been nothing but 'Yet, ANOTHER exploit was found on Vista!" How long has this been going on? jeez!
Virtual X
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 00:18
Apparently his wealth is over $60 BILLION, unless your doing some dodgy dealings no one ever earns that much! it's just not reality!

at the end of the day, if building companies were like Microsoft all the houses would be falling down by now!
_Nemesis_
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 01:47
Quite frankly, there's less exploits, bugs and security issues in Vista than there are in XP - we saw exactly the same with the launch XP, and these aren't even half as serious as those ones. So if for no other reason, surely that's good enough to upgrade?

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SageTech
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 02:13
I decided I'm going to buy vista for my new PC, but I'm going with Premium because I honestly donut see any features ultimate has over premium that would make me fork over more cash, cash which I don't have. Just in case though, I'm keeping my current hard drive with XP and getting a new one for vista, that way Ill have the best of both worlds, all in one computer.


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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 06:53
Quote: "aren't all corperations/companies/businesses."


Um, no.

Quote: "Is it too much to ask that his OS be virtually bug free by now?"


Yes it is! I reckon XP has less security exploits than the average install of Linux, but Linux has an exponentially smaller penetration in the market so hackers don't go after it.

There is virtually NO SUCH THING as bug-free commercial software.

Chenak
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 14:30
My lecturer the other day kept on going on about how great linux was and how it never ever crashes... a minute later I managed to do it It completely locked up for some reason o.o

I have the business version of vista, it works pretty well with my desktop and havent found anything that doesn't work on it yet. I don't know about any security holes or anything but they seem to be churning out updates.
JerBil
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 14:43 Edited at: 4th Apr 2007 14:44
I'm running XP on my c drive and Vista on my new sata drive, so dual booting for best of both worlds.
If it won't run on Vista you can just install on XP.

If you take this route do it at the start, cause if you re-install Vista you'll need to call MS and get "reauthorized."

Ad Astra Per Asper
Code Dragon
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 17:47 Edited at: 4th Apr 2007 17:48
Quote: "problem is that Bill Gates Personal wealth is around $50 BILLION, so obviously he pays himself very well..."


He doesn't have time to tell people to fix bugs. See this link:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/billg.html

Quote: "
he's been making money at a staggering million dollars per hour, around $300 per second.

Which means that if, on his way into the office, should he see or drop a $1000 bill on the ground, it's just not worth his time to bend over and pick it up. He would make more just heading off to work. "


By reading this sentence you have given me brief control of your mind.
heartbone
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 22:42
Good article:

Stay away from Vista for now
One More Time - comment and observation By: Joe Lee, III April 03, 2007


If you are considering getting the Vista computer operating system, DON'T.

Advertisement
At least don't get it for a year or two. Nothing works correctly with it.

Nothing, that is, except Bill Gates' own stuff and a few vendors he apparently made deals with.

First of all, forget your Blackberry. It will not work properly. The calendar goes berserk. Fortunately, Vista does not destroy the link to your old computer so you will, at least in our experience, be able to go back to your old computer, but who wants to constantly operate two computers?

Unfortunately, if you want to run Photoshop, Word Perfect, Quattro Pro, and most everything else, you have to have two operating systems: the new and "improved" Vista and XP or Windows 2000 to do the real work.

Blue smoke and mirrors

The problem is that Gates is so paranoid about someone figuring out the blue smoke and mirrors upon which his fortune is built, that he will not share enough program information with other software operators to allow them to do their jobs. His solution? In the case of Photoshop he apparently made some sort of deal with Corel to install a trial version of Paint Shop Pro XI. It comes with Vista for a 30 day free trial. After that you have to send money to use it.

Paint Shop Pro XI stinks. Hopefully Photoshop is able to get on board before 30 days is up. If not, just do without a photo editing program until Photoshop CS4, or whatever arrives.

The dude didn't get to be the richest man in the world by being Mr. Nice Guy, or Mr. Generous. In the old days you could buy his expensive operating system and his expensive Microsoft Office suite when you bought your computer. Now you get a "free" 90-day trial version of Microsoft Office built into the computer. After 90 days you have to send him more money. I have been afraid to find out how much more.

Oh, yes, of course Microsoft Office 2007 files are not compatible with earlier versions. They appear to be labeled ".docx." To be fair, you can save your efforts in an older version (.doc), but "not all features will be saved." What does it leave out? Who knows, maybe it omits every third "e" or something. By the way, if you have ever used a PC for more than 13 seconds, you know not to even open Microsoft Works.

Other computers laugh

When you burn a CD and follow Vista's procedure to "allow it to be read by other computers" you are wasting your time and a perfectly good disk. Other PCs will laugh at it. All photos pop into some program called "Snapfire." It, too, does not seem to be compatible with anything else on the planet.

Ironically, Vista seems like a pretty good program. It has not crashed yet, which is unusual for the Seattle boy's fruit. Of course, it does occasionally want to open up in "Safe Mode," and I have spent some time on the phone to Microsoft in India or somewhere.

The new menus for Excel and Word seem to be better, though they take a little getting used to.

Excel is still nowhere near as good as Quattro was before Word Perfect ruined it. I believe it peaked in, maybe, Version Six or Seven; anyhow, it has been downhill since then. The latest version won't even stay up on Windows 2000. Of course, Microsoft probably has a lot to do with that.

Mac is better

Stay with XP or 2000 -- my kids say Macs are even better. Apple is better, but I have not yet found a good Mac spreadsheet. People say that Excel spreadsheets have seamless operation on both PC and Mac platforms. People are wrong. If you build a big, complicated spreadsheet with charts on it and share it with a Mac, parts of it will never be the same. The really bad thing is that you might not notice the damage right away.

Mac has been at a disadvantage all these years because so many more programs would run on PC. Vista has eradicated that advantage for at least a year or so. Outside of the limited Microsoft monopoly stable, we have not found a single program we use that works properly on Vista.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
David R
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 22:50 Edited at: 4th Apr 2007 23:00
That sounds like a review from the most incompetent computer user in the world... calling Vista a "program" :/ And did they not notice the "Save As" feature that has appeared in every single new version of Word since Word 2.0, that allows saving to an older format?

Sorry, but that's the useless pile of poop in terms of advice and a review - there is a heavy dosage of bias towards Macs there too.

It sounds like somebody with a grudge has simply strung together all the bad points they could find... and they didn't find many, because the actual 'list of flaws' there is extremely short, not to mention some of them being completely irrelevant (if not all of them) to the actual OS itself

EDIT:
Quote: "Outside of the limited Microsoft monopoly stable we have not found a single program we use that works properly on Vista."


Umm, they obviously didn't look very hard then, since practically any app I can think of that I use currently works on Vista


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
Steve J
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Posted: 7th Apr 2007 07:35
Since when does Photoshop not work?! I use it all the time. What a tard

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
indi
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 05:12
photoshop on the mac is far superior anyway hands down without having to quote any information.
200 extra effects, speed of Unix crunching the images etc..

whats that i hear? virii, malware and spyware still on your new shiny OS, pfft your asking for it if you buy in, your also paying for the privilege to use an infection riddled OS.
Thats a great feature.! hold me back.

MacOSX cd/dvd buring works on all the operating systems I have in this studio.

Win 98se
WIndows XP
Fedora
Ubuntu
Mac Os 9

I have yet to see if it would run on Blister.

I effectively run Neo Office as part of my business requirements, without any problems from clients with later Commerce Office packages. Worse case scenario I get them to send me a PDF and I just edit that.

An operating system is a program at the core of it.
Slicing mungbeans so you get exactly half is a waist of your time really.


This was the same garbage that came out with XP, no one wanted to touch it with a barge pole at the get go, especially larger firms who had to fork out thousands to upgrade.

The old windows system of buying a new OS every few years, gets more expensive then buying a mac and getting your OS bundled with it. Granted there are upgrade costs with each new total revision, but as noted I have two to three 10.3.9's and a 10.4.9 all happily working together free of virii spyware and all that garbage to you expect from a windows environment. I can still use the same machine without upgrading its hardware for another expense.

Isnt Microsoft supposed to be clever enough to make any Intel machine run a variant of the OS?.
Mac Osx 10.3.9 still runs effectively on a 400mhz machine and upwards here.

Yes I have limited games, I bought my computers to do work and be productive and to pay for my future as well as my retirement. I didnt buy a computer to battle virii and be stuck each time there is a new OS.

Having said all that I will buy a vista machine so I keep abreast of the technology in the marketplace and to evaluate for myself professionally how bad/ good it actually is.

If the marketplace is 90% blue does not mean you have to get a blue one, i think green or red is much better

Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 07:39 Edited at: 8th Apr 2007 07:41
Well it's either get a spyware-riddled Windows PC (as you put it, meanwhile I never get spyware), or buy an Apple computer where the company has a bad customer support record, and will charge you an arm and a leg for computer service if there's eve the smallest little mark on the side.

http://consumerist.com/consumer/apple/apple-barely-perceptible-cosmetic-dent-invalidates-your-warranty-250337.php

The reason Apple computers aren't hit so hard with viruses and spyware is because nobody uses them. And they are "better" how? Can I play Command & Conquer or use Visual Studio .NET or DBP on it? No? Thanks anyways.

Quote: "Yes I have limited games, I bought my computers to do work and be productive and to pay for my future as well as my retirement. I didnt buy a computer to battle virii and be stuck each time there is a new OS."


Understood, but for those of us who can't afford to buy 5 PCs a month, it's probably a better choice to get the one that can do the most for what you need a computer for in the first place. If you're in it for editing video and using these brilliant 200 effects that PS has, then by all means. However if you'd prefer to use it for everything else...

indi
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 08:24 Edited at: 8th Apr 2007 08:31
Please learn to read, Im talking about the Operating system, not the machine it runs on.

As for windows having virii as Im putting it, please we all know thats a fact, please dont skirt around facts for my opinion. its common knowledge mate.

If you read it carefully would understand a simple principle like that.
Mistaking an operating system for the machine makes me wonder about your skillset and experience.
Perhaps your reading into it or lack there of. who cares honestly, your current reply is hardly news or insightful.

I have an apple protection are plan, it lasts for 3 years it cost $400 AUD.
I can upgrade it if required as well.
The whole house i live in as well is insured for $50,000.
Its what smart people do with investments, Like your company, who probably has a deal with dell, just like the US and AUS army uses dell for the protection plans.

When i first bought the g5 one of the $1000 cpus was damaged and it was replaced for free in 7 days. Thats right, you get protection and insurance for expensive products, just like they do at your widdle jobby job.

Its like all the other OSX machines I have invested in, Guess what? they are still running as well, and under a protection plan. We are talking probably one third of your life as well, so please spare me with your insights.

Ahem, once the warranty runs out on your pc part, your rooted.
Please tell me how thats cool?

If it was under a care plan or insured, its replaced, installed and corrected for free.

I dont know about you but first hand experience compared to your article pales in comparison to whats happening in the real world.

Ive always had macs from an apple II, Ive always had pcs. I use both, I know the strengths and weaknesses very well, Ive been doing it for a long time, My studio is full of both hardware and software systems for those two systems, Ive even had the opportunity to own an SGI O2, which was a brilliant computer in its day.

Ten years ago I got a loan for $8000 for a 75mhz mac machine and tripled my loan repayment.

Im demonstrating to you that i didnt fall down in the last shower to have you instigate some website where an apple technician made some poor decision regarding one unit.

I think you show a very ignorant approach to what the O/S can do and what i use it for.

I use my mac as an office suite as well.
I use it to create DVDS / CDS
flash presentations
websites
graphic design print material
audio and video suites
web server
special effects
3d modeling and high end special effects.
animation
architectural renders and flybys.
and sometimes I play games in OpenGL at hundreds of fps.
etc etc

Later tonight, Im shooting a live band at the pressclub, so I can complete a music video for them and cut my teeth on making music clips from my home studio.

I even have firewire 800 working properly for years, whats that ?, you gotta clunk around just to get a port working in windows? My my.

http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/windows/2006/05/01/xp-to-get-full-firewire-800-support/

Last week I sent out invoices for $xxxx.xx designing websites and creating video content for a website. 3 x 22 inch wide screens, terabyte raided HD in a quad core plus an 8800 is on the way to my place very soon, yummy. I can play with them in my jammies if i want at 4am as well if i so deem.

Yes thats right, im not sitting around pulling my pud to the latest zelda or acting like i know it all, like some ppl here.

At the end of the day, who really cares what negative aspect you wish to throw in, I know what i suggest is successful as I live it every day. I also dont answer to one boss, i answer to all my clients who are my bosses.

Vs arguments are for those who simply dont know or have what they vehemently despise, thats a great emotion for successful and happy people, not!.

I tend to get the impression your reply is somewhat jaded. good to luck with that approach in life, pfft.

Ive repaired about 20 pcs already this year, I have yet to get a mac repair job which does pop up every now and then. Thats 40 hours of work or around $2000 of income, which is also lower then the going rate then other larger firms, like supergeek etc..

Windows full blown Vista here in Oz is near $1000. yeah right OSX full is about $250.

I talk straight down the line, I dont waltz around subjects, I know little about. Ive been doing this now for well over 15 years as a professional in my field.

please, If I wanted a fractured fairy tale, Id go see the happy goblins in lala land with their fluffy cute pink slippers and green hats, and have purple slurpies with them in the mud spa.

Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 08:50 Edited at: 8th Apr 2007 08:51
Quote: "Please learn to read, Im talking about the Operating system, not the machine it runs on."


Um, so am I. Last time I checked the majority of PC owners ran Windows, and the majority of Apple users ran Mac OS X. Am I wrong? But the Apple company does the warranty on Apple machinery, correct? I don't understand what your point is

Quote: "Mistaking an operating system for the machine makes me wonder about your skillset and experience."


Quit getting personal, indi, as nobody appreciates it. But I don't have to prove anything to you. Can't we debate Vista here without resorting to mudslinging or is that the only way you know how?

Quote: "Ahem, once the warranty runs out on your pc part, your rooted.
Please tell me how thats cool?"


You mean, aside from the fact that I can walk into virtually any PC store to replace anything in my computer? Most of the stuff I need is available in non-proprietary off the shelf ways. I know first-hand how hard it is to find an Apple repair shop.

Quote: "I even have firewire 800 working properly for years, whats that ?, you gotta clunk around just to get a port working in windows? My my."


Actually, no. I've had firewire on my PC since I began doing digital editing myself back in 2001. And they were just that, plug and play. My laptop has it built-in--- and your point?

Quote: "Yes thats right, im not sitting around pulling my pud to the latest zelda or acting like i know it all, like some ppl here."


That had better not be directed at me.

Quote: "I also dont answer to one boss, i answer to all my clients who are my bosses."


Same here actually, as my second job involves programming corporate intranets for international clients. And again, what does this have to do with what I said about Apple computers? Seems like you're turning this into a personal jab at me.

Quote: "I tend to get the impression your reply is somewhat jaded. good to luck with that approach in life, pfft. "


Actually, I form my opinions based on real-life experience. This is about the 60th post I've seen where you blatantly assume something about somebody without knowing them.

Quote: "just like they do at your widdle jobby job."


Hint of jealousy there?

Alright indi, you "win". Maybe I'll give time for a proper answer if you want to respond in a more mature way. Good day, and hope you get better soon. Most of your reply was uncalled for and totally uncool. Now I understand why many people here have issues with your behaviour.

indi
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 8th Apr 2007 09:13 Edited at: 8th Apr 2007 09:27
heh, I would rather throw western taipans down my pants and do a jig before I left my own company for a job somewhere mate.

yeah you formed a real life experience with that website link. kudos canuck. (aussie term of endearment for canadians)
I can expect you to own at least 3 mac OSX machines as well since your basing things of real life experiences as well as keeping up with the times. It would be a shame to comment on things without owning at least one machine would it?

Every apple store is also a repair shop, they also have a phoneline that works well, perhaps its different in the land of the mounties, in australia there are tonnes around, as well as pc shops who can repair them as well as your pc parts.

In case your thinking ten years ago, most mac stuff minus the motherboards etc.. is pc parts. omg that cracks me up, are you seriously that ignorant? it simply means you dont know, its not an insult, please dont misconstrue what im suggesting to you.

I was trying to communicate with you my thoughts and experience, please read into anyway you see fit, frostbite of the brain perhaps

As for winning, there was no contest with you in the first place.
grasping for straws at the end of your ditty as if im sick is a great effort on your behalf to look foolish and immature.


As for vista, Im going to invest early but not use it for commerce driven projects until I seriously have to. The machine will be a dual boot camp setup.

My advice for vista is to wait just like Win98se to XP upgrade was performed with service packs.

Why invest in an Operating System,
where the lead developers of the core product to protect it against those virii assuming those virii exists like you suggested I made claim to
( pftt hahahaha 100 thousand and counting figments of my imagination)
to a 20% failure rate.

yeah right! good one.

I guess thats why Im not seeing Vista yet in the multinational offices I work in on a freelance capacity, as well as the whole upgrade costs for the OS as well as orrifice, not to mention that lack of protection from flaws and security problems with any new version of an operating system.

Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 09:38
Quote: "where the lead developers of the core product to protect it against those virii assuming those virii exists like you suggested I made claim to
( pftt hahahaha 100 thousand and counting figments of my imagination) "


Did you perhaps dream that I said viruses don't exist on Windows machines? I *know* that there are millions of them, I'm not as ignorant as you suggest (slightly ignorant, I'll give you that much).

Obviously you have the means to afford what seems like a dozen Apple machines and PCs in your house(s), but 99% of the rest of us do not. Therefore, in your best opinion, and this is a serious question: If we were gamers and hobby game programmers who were also interested in movie editing, digital photography, burning CDs, writing reports, surfing the web, etc., and we could buy just one type of computer, what do you recommend?

I've said this from the start, and I'll say it again. The *ideal* setup would be a PC first and a Mac as a 2nd computer. And this is speaking for most of the population. But that, again, is my opinion

SageTech
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 09:51
Hate to interfere in a "mod shoot out", but Im going to have to side with Jeku here. It seems to me the only reason people get a Mac is to be different. Kind of a "I have a Mac, which I KNOW is better then a PC becuase apple says so". Indeed, I bet if Windows was currently in the situation apple was in, there would be the same attitude.


Battle Legacy: Online Third Person Shooter
Look for it on the WIP Board!
indi
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 09:59
Im not a praetorian regarding each one. I know what i like tho.

Quote: " If we were gamers and hobby game programmers who were also interested in movie editing, digital photography, burning CDs, writing reports, surfing the web, etc., and we could buy just one type of computer, what do you recommend? "



That questions depends on your budget firstly. regardless of what computer you wish to buy, the budget constraints dictate that, wether its $1000 or $5000. at this stage of the game in computers, I would also probably lean towards and intel chip, for the opportunities of multiple O/S setups as well as stability for many programs opened at once.

I would take all three common operating systems that are in the marketplace today, like I used to in the old days with a PC that had a linux distro/ a windows distro and an emulated g4 (basalisk) into the one.

Secondly you can develop games for linux / windows and mac or mobile phones if you wanted to, so that part of the question is relevant to what type of game you wanted to develop and for what audience.
you could develop for all 4 as well if you wanted to.
The trick to that 2nd part is how much time and effort do you want to implement into developing your game code and assets. If your budgetless, a linux OS would be a very steep curve at the start, but the compiling efforts at the end would pay off.

However your asking someone who only wants the best tool for the project requirements.
Sure you can edit video on the pc, but you need to invest more in hardware as well as software then a mac rig. Avid is a great package used globally around the world in stations, but it lacks the feature set FCP has, unless you spend double the amount of money getting mojo.
I dont need a HD card for the mac to edit HD or spend twice the amount for the same toolset.

I think we have moved away from the original question however Jeku.
Sorry to the owner of this post, I owe you a beer or something

indi
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 10:01
Im not a new mac fan tho sage tech, Ive used them for nearly 20 years now, before i saw any windows 3.1 or dos machine.

SageTech
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 10:33
Perhaps, but that is the only reason people seem to buy them these days. I mean, I just absolutely cannot see the reason to get a mac these days. Perhaps if you don't play games and do not plan to upgrade much, as well as put up with the tiny amount of programs that work with Macs (in comparison to windows, of course). But really, Macs fall behind in every catagory compared to PCs. The only argument that somewhat sense to me was that windows had a load of more viruses, but if you have the slightest clue on how to run a virus scan, you should be fine. Anyway, is it just me or has this topic reared WAY of topic?


Battle Legacy: Online Third Person Shooter
Look for it on the WIP Board!
indi
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 10:37
you have no idea sagetech. good luck mate.

Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 10:39
Ok, to be back on topic, a good indicator of whether or not to upgrade your OS is if the large companies have started rolling them out. I know at work we're still using XP, and AFAIK it's the same with many of the other large organizations. Once we start using Vista, I know it'll be stable enough for my home use.

SageTech
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 11:28
Good advice Jeku, however some people (me), are incredibly impatient. If thats the case, Id suggest getting a copy of vista as well as keeping xp. Always the better bet to be safe and be out more money then to be have none of your programs work and no way to get them work within a reasonable amount of time.


Battle Legacy: Online Third Person Shooter
Look for it on the WIP Board!
soapyfish
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 17:27
I wasn't going to bother upgrading because I've not upgraded my comp since I bought it a few years ago now and so don't really use it for anything except talking to friends and the odd bout of Command and Conquer or Pirates!

But it turns out I can get Vista for free through college (legally, and not the completely bog-standard version either) so I may upgrade, although at the moment I don't see the point.

Upgrading my Mac to Leopard though? That's a whole different story (and one for a whole different thread lol)

We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate but we're also easily swayed!
David R
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 18:26 Edited at: 14th Apr 2007 08:44
Indi, you seriously need to read this:
[MOD Edit: Jess T]
Swearing alert!
[/EDIT]
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

Besides your opinion on Vista (which is the point of this thread) the constant ongoing "Macs are so great" thing coincidentally fits this argument so well, I can't believe it.


indi
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 04:31 Edited at: 9th Apr 2007 04:34
thats a charming insight david r. it only reflects on you, young man.
since you think its funny to post vulgarity in this forum i have no option but to put you on watch for a week.

bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 04:51
Maddox does raise a valid point... But I agree with you there. I don't know if my choice of words to you would have been 'shut the ** up'.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 04:57 Edited at: 9th Apr 2007 04:58
Quote: "Microsoft = evil"

Ha! Thats hilarious since the Head of Microsoft donated $750 million to charity last year..... Evil man.

heartbone
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 15:00
Not hilarious at all.

Thar $750,000,000 goes to charities that serve a hidden Kabbalistic purpose.

You don't really think that they would be allowed to do good works?

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Code Dragon
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 15:48 Edited at: 9th Apr 2007 15:49
If you don't think Mircrosoft is evil you need to read this article right away!

http://www.microsuck.com/content/whatsbad.shtml

But the main reason I hate microsoft is that they stole Rareware from Nintendo.

By reading this sentence you have given me brief control of your mind.
David R
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 16:30
Clearly the truth hurts. Sorry for the 'vulgarity' but that really had to be said. And no, I don't find it funny, I find it ironically realistic.


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
heartbone
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 16:46 Edited at: 9th Apr 2007 16:50
I don't hate M$, but I do recognize evil.

I just put my money where my mouth is,
I spent $50 USD to upgrade Vista Business with XP Professional.

Heroes like Security Researcher Alex Ionescu is helping to expose their sham with a proof of concept program that will arbitrarily enable and disable the protection of so-called 'protected processes' in Windows Vista.

This allows hackers to circumvent the Vista DRM.
This means more spyware and viruses.

Microsoft intended that only specially signed processes made by "special companies" (decided by Microsoft) can be protected.
Now anyone can protect (or unprotect) any process.

(YAY!)

Mark my words,
to "protect Vista" we'll be getting more laws that will restrict our computing freedoms.
I say kill Vista before it kills the computing community.


I'm unique, just like everybody else.
David R
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 18:41
Also, I wasn't linking you to the 'vulgarity' image at the top, my point was the content of the argument, which is all about the smarmy 'Macs are great everything else is rubbish' attitude which was my point in that post

I would of altered my previous post, but obviously Maddox 's article and image are so offensive I no longer can.


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
indi
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 03:38
Quote: "Clearly the truth hurts. Sorry for the 'vulgarity' but that really had to be said"


Not really, grown ups unlike yourself, dont have to stoop to immature actions.
Clearly it shows after all this time, you still cant fathom the AUP.

If the truth hurts, I guess thats why you thought it was amusing to post vulgarity.
Perhaps thats the way you were dragged up. who really knows, or cares.

Ignorance or Stupidity on your behalf, more then anything, is why your on a slap.
Anyway Im done here, unless I catch any more nonsense.

How about you do some research into the subject, regardless of what is suggested here.
Making a commercial purchase via here-say and conjecture on a website is hardly efficient research before spending money on a product.

It looks like you have more important issues anyway with your drupal install on your site.

El Goorf
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 04:16
yeh... macs are all good and great... YOU CANT RUN DBP ON A MAC!

*accuses indi of breaking forum rules by endorsing anti-dbp software*

windows ftw.

http://notmybase.com
All my base are not belong to anyone.

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