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Geek Culture / Makes your head hurt...

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st May 2007 19:48
Quote: "You can't really get infinite density, can you?"


You can if you make a loop in an object's timeline.

Venge
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Posted: 1st May 2007 23:27
Yea, just go ask a black hole how it made its time machine.

Your signature has not been deleted by a mod because it was not bigger than 600x120...
BatVink
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Posted: 1st May 2007 23:42
Mass defines the amount of energy. Density defines the space that the energy occupies. So for something to be infinitely dense, it must be of infinite mass, in no space at all. That, I think Le Maitre discovered, is called The Big Bang.

Black holes exist, and we are still here. So they cannot be infinitely dense. But it can be ridiculously dense (my own, newly coined scientific term), and so by definition have a ridiculously high mass too.

The OP was right, my head is starting to hurt. I started looking into quantum physics earlier this year, and now understand why scientists prefer to pretend it doesn't exist.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 1st May 2007 23:42
What if black holes were alien's attempts at time travel

I have no signature...
Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 12:16
Quote: "Yea, just go ask a black hole how it made its time machine."


Yea, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 2nd May 2007 13:34 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 13:37
Have black holes realy been proved?

I mean if nothing escapes them, not even light how do you see one before you walk into it?

If there is a light warp around the edge who's to say its a black hole and isn't just a big lump of that dark matter that's missing in the universe?

They recon there is a black hole at the center of galaxys but I also see plenty of galaxies rotating around a bright core just because someone simulated something on a computer doesn't make it real, try playing Crackdown then going out and lifting a car above your head and throwing it

Currently what's doing my head in is explaining how the Fast Fourier Transform algorithm works for an assignment due in 4 hours

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
Venge
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 15:24
Quote: "Yea, you have no idea what I'm talking about."


Yea, you completely missed the sarcasm.

Your signature has not been deleted by a mod because it was not bigger than 600x120...
Crit
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 19:01
Quote: "They recon there is a black hole at the center of galaxys but I also see plenty of galaxies rotating around a bright core"


The bright core is part of the proof that black holes exist. As gas swirls around the black hole, it heats up. As it approaches the speed of light, it gets so hot that it starts emitting everything from visible light to x-rays and gamma rays.
Zotoaster
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 19:46
Quote: "I mean if nothing escapes them, not even light how do you see one before you walk into it?"


You don't see them, but you know by looking at stars and stuff around it.

Osiris
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Posted: 4th May 2007 04:07
yeah, because it you see a bunch of starts and in the middle there is nothing, and space seems to be bending into that nothing, you might just have yourself a black hole. Also, on that galaxy's thing, there is not enough mass in most galaxy's to hold them together and spinning without a black hole to pull it all together.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120....
dab
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Posted: 4th May 2007 09:02
Black holes are found because there is a certain kind of radiation or gas or something that can be detected by satelites. I believe.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th May 2007 18:26 Edited at: 4th May 2007 18:26
How would that radiation or gas escape the black hole?

Crit
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Posted: 4th May 2007 18:43
Well there is the Hawking radiation that evaporates out of them.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation
BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th May 2007 02:50
Quote: "You can't really get infinite density, can you? If it's all just theory, then how come you already get black holes?"


The only way you would be able to achieve infinite mass... is if you were traveling at the speed of light. This would mean you would also have infinite length, have infinite energy and time would "stand still".

The formula for mass is

M = M0/sqrt(1-(V^2/C^2))

Where C = Speed of light
V = Your speed
M0 = original mass
M = New mass

If V = C then then sqrt(1-(V^2/C^2)) = 0, and anything divided by 0 is equal to infinity.

However a black hole does not have infinite mass. Its actually a solid object. Just so extremely dense (I think they are made entirely out of tightly packed neutrons)
This means it has a maaaaahoooooosive gravitational field strength, strong enough to even absorb light itself.

dab
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Posted: 5th May 2007 09:23
Quote: "How would that radiation or gas escape the black hole?"


Good question... Got me there. I'm really not sure then. That's what I thought.

Code Dragon
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Posted: 5th May 2007 18:03
Quote: "anything divided by 0 is equal to infinity"


Well, not really:

5/0 = infinity
5 = infinity*0
5 = 0



"Once there was a polygon mesh who was very sad because he was only Gouraud shaded."
Jimmy
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Posted: 5th May 2007 18:20
I knew there was something I didn't like about the number 5...

Zotoaster
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Posted: 6th May 2007 12:47
Quote: "5 = infinity*0"


Nop.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 6th May 2007 12:54
Therefore you think 5 = 0. Trust me.... anything divided by 0 is equal to infinity. Because 0 goes into a number..... infinity times.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 6th May 2007 14:12
I believe any number divided by 0 is infinity, but if you multiply the right-hand side by 0 (as he did in his equation), you have to do the same to the left-hand side.

Jimmy
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Posted: 6th May 2007 14:29 Edited at: 6th May 2007 14:30
Quote: "but if you multiply the right-hand side by 0 (as he did in his equation), you have to do the same to the left-hand side."


He did. That's how 5/0 became 5.

It works!

bitJericho
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Posted: 12th May 2007 18:00
Quote: "Therefore you think 5 = 0. Trust me.... anything divided by 0 is equal to infinity. Because 0 goes into a number..... infinity times."


No it's not... 0 time infinity is still 0, it's not 5, or 6, or even 7. 0 = nothing!

Dazzag
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Posted: 12th May 2007 18:05
Quote: "If you travel very very fast, you will go forward in time"
If my experiments are true then I think I have found a way to go forward in time. And it doesn't require travelling very very fast, although that would work too. But even sitting on my couch watching DVDs and eating pop corn can work as an environment in which my "travelling forwards in time" experiment can work. It's amazing. Yes.

Hopefully it will work out better than my seeing through walls idea (normally works with the materials found in an ordinary home!!!).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
hessiess
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Posted: 12th May 2007 18:19 Edited at: 12th May 2007 21:55
Quote: "Hopefully it will work out better than my seeing through walls idea (normally works with the materials found in an ordinary home!!!).
"

with the junk that hoses are made from these days, its easy.you just need a tak hammer!

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Sven B
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Posted: 12th May 2007 18:46
Dividing by zero

No not anything divided by 0 will be infinity. Technically, you cannot divide by 0.

The infinity comes from the limit of a/x where x >= 0.


And this is exactly what happens with Einsteins relativistic correction factor (if I translated it correctly).
According to his formula, to achieve lightspeed, you would need an infinite amount of energy to "reach" lightspeed itself.

Dividing by 0 can also pretty much be illustrated with the equation:
a/0 = b
<=> a = b*0
consequently, this equation only isn't false when a = 0.
And then still, b could be any real number, the equation still wouldn't be false.
That's why 0/0 is called "undefined".

Black holes

Now the black holes.
Black holes are discovered indirectly by observing the effects on gas or stars affected by them.
This is also the case for the radiation and heat. The heat and radiation doesn't come from the black hole itself, but from the gas orbitting around the black hole. The friction between the gas atoms becomes so huge of their speed, that it's being converted to this radiation and heat.

Then we come to the mass and density matter.
People often think that black holes have infinite mass and gravitation. But this is not what it is. What a black hole DOES have is infinite density.

density = mass/volume

the mass stays the same, andthus the gravitational pull also stays the same as before.
The one thing that differs from before is the volume. A black hole has a volume of a mathematical point. Because of that, mass/0 would be infinity (check the limits I described above).

Gravitation:
Because the volume difference, things are able to get closer to a black hole. Gravitation is calculated from the distance between the 2 centers of the masses.

gravity = (G*m1*m2)/r^2

Because the center of the mass is actually the same as the volume, you can get practically as close as you want to the black hole as you want. And maybe you saw this coming already, you get again a 0 for r, which leaves us again with a/0.
This means: gravity is infinite when you are at a distance of 0 to the black hole.

I hope this explains a little

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Venge
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Posted: 12th May 2007 19:59
...I can't believe this thread is still alive...

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