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Geek Culture / The line has been crossed

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:31
I just read in the paper that in Scotland, any movie or programme featuring smoking (yes, that's including Gandalf and his pipe, Selma and her cigarette, Audrey Hepburn with one of those long cigerettes) will be given an 18 certificate...

...

Seriously... Give me a f*cking break... I can't go see The Simpsons Movie now because someone will be smoking...

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:35
Isn't it just in the case of excessive smoking?

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:39
<rant>

1) 16 is the smoking age here anyway
2) It's not like we don't see people smoking every f*cking day anyway. The fact that you have to smoke outside here (unless it's private property) means we will always see them smoke. If they were allowed in pubs where children can't go, then we wouldn't see them so much.
3) Who the hell has ever been inspired to smoke by watching Selma anyway!? She's ment to appear disgusting the way she smokes!

I swear, I can't stand this. Everything is being taken away. I just can't sit here and take this sh!t.

To everyone Scottish:

Tomorrow, or whenever you can, please phone up and see what you can do. As soon as I can tomorrow, I will get this idiots number, email, fax, address, whatever I can, and post it here. I urge you to stand up against this, because seriously, it's not f*cking funny.

Cheers for letting me rant a bit

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:45
Of course, maybe if you swear they'll change their minds.

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El Goorf
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:47
i hate smokers so much that whenever i walk behind one in the street i secretly wanna punch them in the back of the head. this ban however, if true and not just a silly rumour, is stupid, i dont get what it aims to achieve

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Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:48
Quote: "i hate smokers so much that whenever i walk behind one in the street i secretly wanna punch them in the back of the head"

That's, well, retarded. You want to physically assault people just because they like smoking?

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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El Goorf
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:51
no i want to physically assault them cos they're showing blatent disrespect for my health.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:51
War of the Worlds - 12
Alice in Wonderland - 18

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:53 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 00:54
Quote: "no i want to physically assault them cos they're showing blatent disrespect for my health."

Right. So do you also punch cars?

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 00:58
I'm all for it actually. Any attempts to ostracise smoking is welcome. I find it a disgusting and selfish habit that has been tolerated for too long.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:01
Dude, I dont smoke, I never have and never will... and watching someone smoke on tele isn't going to make it, is it now?! Maybe they might have to stop me walking around in the street because people have to smoke there instead of inside the pubs!!

Jesus Christ Almighty (sorry, but really)...

Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:05 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 01:09
Quote: "watching someone smoke on tele isn't going to make it, is it now?!"


I don't know. I guess if it appeared glamorous enough , if someone for instance idolised an actor/actress and they smoked on screen then that may be enough to make them try it. You may have your head screwed on straight, but a LOT of kids dont.


EDIT:
This is from the evening times site, and echoes my thoughts. Also this is something that Hollywood is backing as well.

Quote: "Movie-raters employed by the Motion Picture Association of America are now to take into account depictions that glamorise smoking or movies that feature pervasive smoking outside of a historic or other mitigating context.' Smoking has long been seen as a cool or glamorous accessory in Hollywood films, and screen sirens and tough guys were often seen smoking."


NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:10
What I hate most is when people aren't allowed into a shop or hospital because they smoke, and therefore hang around the door wafting it into your face. Smoking is dumb. It does not make you look any smarter, it kills you slowly, it is addictive, it harms others, it's expensive and it makes you stink. Just stop it. Really.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:10
You know how low you are when you tell Keith Richards to stop smoking on a stage (outdoor stadium, by the way) and embarrassing the whole country infront of the rolling stones. Or when the guy who was playing Winston Churchill was told to stop smoking his cigar.

Even the french didnt take this crap (no offence Ben ) and the "mighty" Scottish do... what is this country turning into? I refuse to not be able to watch one of the most known children's cartoons of all time because somebody smokes in it.

Tom and Jerry was full of "violence" and was allowed for kids, but because there's smoking in it, hundrens if not thousands of small children are going to be really pissed off because they can't watch it anymore.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:14
That's just a tad ridiculous... It won't stop anything and once again, this is a parenting issue. If you don't want your kid to be subjected to smoking, then don't let them see the movie.

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Silver Dawn
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:14 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 01:14
@Zotoaster ,you didnt read the quote did you...

Quote: "now to take into account depictions that glamorise smoking or movies that feature pervasive smoking outside of a historic or other mitigating context"


I believe that this is also the stance that the SNP is adopting. As you said Selma is hardly glamorising smoking is she?

FredP
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:18
They are trying to make any movie that comes out from now on in the United States that has someone smoking in it rated R.
I smoked for 20 years...quit a few years ago and don't anymore.
The stupidity that some people show is amazing.
My mom can't stand cigarette smoke.She starts coughing when she sees someone on TV light up. Curiosuly enough,I can't either now.I didn't realize how bad a smoker smells until I quit.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:18
It all leads back to the indoor smoking ban. If you want to smoke, smoke. But there are those who dont want to be around it, so, go into a pub, where people have always smoked. You can't expect to go to a pub where there is lots of booze and drunk people and not expect smoking, and if you are selfish enough to think that smoking in pubs should be illegal, go to a non-smoking restaurant. Pub owners: get air conditioning. Split it into two rooms, whatever.

I say again, I don't smoke, but it should be a free choice, it shouldn't harm anyone at all if dealt with properly. Problem is, it's simply not.

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:24
Quote: "You can't expect to go to a pub where there is lots of booze and drunk people and not expect smoking"

I agree, smoking in pubs is almost traditional. While I'm not for smoking, I believe that both of these rules are stupid.

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:26
Quote: "You can't expect to go to a pub where there is lots of booze and drunk people and not expect smoking"


Yes you can. Its illegal.

If your complaining about not getting to see an 18 certificate movie then your not old enough to have spent the night in a smoke filled pub with no choice as every other pub is smoke filled. You also would not have the pleasure of waking up the next day absolutely stinking of smoke. Those who are against smoking in public are NOT the selfish ones, as it is something that affects everybody around them.

Quote: "if you are selfish enough to think that smoking in pubs should be illegal, go to a non-smoking restaurant"


yes that would be great fun. Sit in a restaurant and sup a few beers. Nice idea

Matt Rock
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:27 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 01:28
Quote: "Right. So do you also punch cars?"

Dang it Ben, always saying precisely what I was going to say, long before I know there's an opportunity to say it

edit: ah yes, another chance to post this image:



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FredP
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:34
Quote: "Split it into two rooms"


The nonsmokers woudln't be satisfied...trust me on that.Having a smoking area that is separate from the rest of the place won't make them happy.There are fewer and fewer places where it is allowed.Makes no sense to me...
If you go to a bar expect smoking.Expecting not to have smoking in a bar is like expecting not to have Big Macs at McDonald's.
Quote: "Those who are against smoking in public are NOT the selfish ones"

So if a nonsmoker goes into a bar and everybody else is smoking they should all just stop for one person?Isn't that kind of selfish?As a matter of fact this inquisition that some nonsmokers seem to be on is selfish.Just because someone doesn't like smoking doesn't mean they shoud ruin it for everybody else.
The fact is that there are going to be fewer and fewer places you can smoke at...just the way it is.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:34
Oraculaca, You're not getting me. It's not like smoking is any worse than alcohol. People go to the pub not just to drink, but to smoke with some friends. You can't accidentally drink beer if someone outside is drinking it, but you can breathe smoke, so why does it have to be outside?

I think if you go into a pub, where people can been smoking since smoking was invented, and think that you shouldn't have any smoke around you, then you are wrong. It's just like if you want to go into a pub and smoke and not expect any drinking around you. It's stupid.

Van B
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:35
Quote: "Curiosuly enough,I can't either now.I didn't realize how bad a smoker smells until I quit."


Ditto, every time I smell a smoker, I have to ask myself if I smelled like that, it's trully disgusting, and only when you smoke and then stop can you appreciate just how nasty a habit it really is.

Thing to remember Zotoaster, is that the chances of you being stopped from seeing The Simpsons is slim, theatre owners are not stupid, you think they really care if your a couple years too young?
I was going to 18's when I was 12, and that's not a statement about me looking older than I am, it's a statement about the power of money, you have money to spend on tickets and popcorn, then what idiot theatre owner would turn you away?

I could see where they are coming from, if not for the fact that Selma is so much of an anti-role model, nobody wants to be Selma!. Take Hellboy for example, Red's cigar is never out of his mouth, I could understand concerns being raised about that. I'd wait a little while, see if this doesn't suddenly just blow over, sounds a lot like tabloid exaggeration to me.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:39
I think it is stupid myself, apparently they been editing all of the Tom and Jerry cartoons to removes smoking...but I'm sorry TV doesn't idolise smoking - there are some many blooming signs out there saying -Smoking = Bad - Smoking = Cancer, Smoking = Death, you've seen all of the adverts - they don't make them scary for nothing, if TV has any influence on smokers, those adverts cancel them out.

I also don't like smoking, but I tolerate that people smoke - even in pubs, there's nothing wrong with a smokey pub (as long as I'm not choking to death on the smoke), just as long as they don't make it too public - it's their health, they can ruin it if they want, for some its a good legal stress relief, if they need it. others, yes, do it because it's cool or they like the pleasure, but then that's why people booze it, eat lots, have sex and even do illegal drugs. - Each have their own risks...So then lets make every movie with gluttony, drinking, sex and drugs (even if they're only suggestive) have an 18 cert. on them.

I've been around smokers, smoking on TV, Mum, Dad, Grandparents, aunts and uncles have smoked around me all my life, I've had friends think its cool to smoke, they some thought drugs are cool, I've turned down cigarettes and grass (I got offered that at Download '06 - so only once I was offered) and yet I haven't had the slightest urge to try anything that I can light and stick in my mouth. So I don't think they're achieving anything with this...other than some angry Scotsman

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:40
Good point VanB. I've seen Hellboy, and he's really cool. Funnily enough I also like Chilli, just like Hellboy. Hey, here's an idea, I'll paint myself red and grow a set of horns and go about beating everyone up because he has inspired me.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:41
Good idea, might make some interesting headlines

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:46
Quote: "So if a nonsmoker goes into a bar and everybody else is smoking they should all just stop for one person?Isn't that kind of selfish?As a matter of fact this inquisition that some nonsmokers seem to be on is selfish"


It is the law not to smoke in enclosed public places so they shouldnt be smoking in the first place.
However in hypothetical land if every single person in the bar was smoking (including the staff who probably wouldnt want/be able to work there without being smokers) then if I was that single person who DIDNT smoke then I would turn around and leave as quickly as possible.

In the real world you dont have such a clear cut case. Staff are not all smokers, they are people trying to pay there bills and suffering 2nd hand smoke damage as a result. Non smokers out with friends are having thousands of chemicals breathed in them because they are in the company of smokers.



Quote: "Oraculaca, You're not getting me. It's not like smoking is any worse than alcohol. People go to the pub not just to drink, but to smoke with some friends. You can't accidentally drink beer if someone outside is drinking it, but you can breathe smoke, so why does it have to be outside?"


I agree they should ban it certain areas outside as well. Just as certain American states are considering.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:48
Quote: "they shouldnt be smoking in the first place."

That's not your place to say, is it?

Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:50 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 01:50
Quote: "That's not your place to say, is it?
"


LOL it is the law. Do you have selective reading disorder?

Edit:
try quoting the FULL sentence

Quote: "It is the law not to smoke in enclosed public places so they shouldnt be smoking in the first place."


Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:51
That law was only passed last year, so unless people only started smoking since the law, then yeah, they could smoke in "the first place".

Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:53
your really not making sense anymore.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:54
Don't play that ball game with me, right?

What you said was, that people shouldn't be smoking in the first place because it's illegal. Well, it only because illegal last year, so, chances are, if they are old enough to go to pubs, most of them have legally been smoking for over a year before the ban started.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:56
I personally don't mind walking into a bar with smoke, as long as there isn't too much, but as many people are concerned with their health, then people should be able to stand to oneside outside, away from too many people and pop out a cigarette and smoke it - people who don't want to get second hand smoke can avoid them with no damage. Simple. I mean I've seen many people just say 'I'm going out for a fag, anyone want one?' - It's still social and it's considerate - a compromise.

As for the TV smoking...well I put my view up there.



Quote: "I agree they should ban it certain areas outside as well."


Like school playgrounds then

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:56
don't know if its true, but i heard about similar things in America. what i heard is that if a movie had smoking, its pg-13, and if it has lots of smoking, it is R

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:59
Quote: "Don't play that ball game with me, right?"


Haha. Ill play whatever 'ball game' I like.

I dont really care if it WAS legal. The fact is that it is now ILLEGAL therefore his question was no more than hypothetical. So yes it is my place to say.

So please, hop off to bed and dream of a time when youll be able to watch The Simpsons again because it sounds like you need the sleep.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:00
Frankly, I'd love to see all smoking banned anyhow. It's not healthy for anyone and it's certainly not doing anyone any real good. They only reason I don't want to see it completely illegalized is because we are supposed to be living in a free country. And even though smoking is a disgusting habit, I don't see why people can't harm themselves with it so long as it's not bothering anyone.

Same thing with seatbelts, parents should be required to make sure kids are belted in and safe until the child is old enough to make that decision for himself, then beyond that, I don't think seatbelts should be a law (coming from someone who always wears a seatbelt) Adults certainly should not be forced to be seatbelted by some law. It's only going to harm themselves.

I don't care if someone shoots and kills himself, or smokes, or drinks, or any of that stuff so long as he's not harming or bothering someone else while doing it.

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Silver Dawn
Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:02 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 02:04
Quote: "I dont really care if it WAS legal."

And you're saying you're not selfish eh?

Quote: "The fact is that it is now ILLEGAL "

...And people have forgotten that some people actually have addictions and can't simply stop.

As seppuku said, there are many things out there that have their risks. Doesn't mean everyone one has to stop. Yeah health is important, but you have to compromise, rather that shove every smoker out of the way to make room for the non-smokers.

[edit]

Dink, yeah, you're right. The free country bit is true, but lets not forget about other things. My mum has been fighting many battles over the years. She got a divorce and had to move country with me and my other two siblings. They both have mental illnesses and my gran is dying. I think the least my mum deserves is a smoke, even in a pub (if she ever has the chance to get there). She's constantly ill, and I think if she got that simple pleasure taken away from her she would be even more ill.

Just remember that not everyone has the strength to stop, and if they are forced to, it can badly affect them and their families.

Venge
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:03
Why ban smoking? I love inhaling secondhand cancer!

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:06 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 02:07
@Zotoaster I think at this point you are just trying to create arguments.

What is selfish about not caring that smoking used to be legal in public places

Quote: "And people have forgotten that some people actually have addictions and can't simply stop."


Which is fine as long as they don't do it somewhere illegal

Quote: "I don't care if someone shoots and kills himself, or smokes, or drinks, or any of that stuff so long as he's not harming or bothering someone else while doing it.
"

I agree.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:08
If you dont want to beathe second hand smoke, dont go into a pub where it's always been done

Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:21
Quote: "Yeah health is important, but you have to compromise, rather that shove every smoker out of the way to make room for the non-smokers."


Why should smokers have more rights than non-smokers. Why shouldn't I go to a pub and not expect to be inhaling second hand smoke?

Quote: "And people have forgotten that some people actually have addictions and can't simply stop."


At some point the person made a choice to START smoking. They weren't born addicted and it takes more than one cigarette to become addicted.

Before you tell me I know nothing I used to smoke so I know all about the cravings etc... I made a choice to give up for my health and the health of those around me.

Why is it perceived as selfish to not want to be around smokers but not selfish for smokers to be risking others health for their habit?

All of this discussion is irrelevant anyway. If governments truly wanted to stop people smoking they would find a way. The fact of the matter is they make plenty of money from the tax on the sale of tobacco products. They don't want you to quit whatever they say, but they must be seen to be doing something about the 'problem'!
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 02:38 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 02:39
I too think that smoking should just be banned. It's bad for your health, and the health of those around you. Obviously there are other ways to relieve stress, considering that everyone else does it without smoking. I don't understand why someone would want to smoke and I don't think I ever will, so I have little to no sympathy for those who do. I don't view the decision to smoke as much different than the decision to do drugs. It's just stupid, anyway you look at it.


Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 03:00
Quote: "Jesus Christ Almighty (sorry, but really)..."


Okay, one thing, if you're going to talk like this I'm going to have to slap you. Got it?

As for the smoking ban, the people voted in the politicians who are changing the laws.

Kentaree
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 03:09
I don't think a pub is a good environment to smoke either, regardless or not it has always been done this way. I used to work in a pub, and before the smoking ban it was hell to work there. I couldn't get another job as jobs were scarce at the time, but it really wasn't a pleasant environment when it was filled with smoke. It improved a lot when the smoking ban was introduced, so it's definitely a good thing

Venge
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 03:13
Quote: "If you dont want to beathe second hand smoke, dont go into a pub where it's always been done "


So you're saying people only smoke in bars?
Dr Manette
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:11
To me, smoking has always been disgusting and also very damaging. It is not right, however, to deny people their right to smoke in a pub of all places. If there was a law to protect us from everything damaging, then we'd have drinking banned from pubs next, wouldn't we?

My point is, we can't be blaming media for our bad choices, and we especially can't control people's lives just because we believe in protecting them for themselves. Honestly, that's too big of a job for us to be trying to take on.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:14
well i do think this is stupid... i mean yeah but not on alice in wonderland, honestly. they need to think and make more further detail on these things before they make a "general" rule about this.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:39 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 04:42
Quote: "It is not right, however, to deny people their right to smoke in a pub of all places."


Why is it their right to smoke in a pub? Seems smokers have more rights than non-smokers.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to smoke. Just that they could go outside to have a smoke. When I smoked I used to go outside to smoke if I was with a group of people that contained non-smokers.
Manic
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 05:33
to those calling for a smoking ban; the massive taxes cigarettes and tobacco carry on them more than pay for what smokers cost the NHS, if the tax generated from tobacco sales were eliminated, the NHS would collapse within a month. Also, prohibition does not work, apart from the tax loss, it creates black markets, it dilutes the product, it gets cut with even worse ingredients and it becomes a greater threat to public health than it ever was before. If you need proof of this, have a look at the prohibition movement in 1920s america, or even the current narcotics legislation. I'm not saying taking drugs is right, I'm saying banning them is wrong.


I'm a smoker myself and I plan to quit when the smoking ban comes in, I'm moving back home after finishing uni, my parents abhor the idea of me smoking, my friends back home don't smoke, so it's going to be easier to just quit than have to go sneaking around outside constantly. So yes, in this respect I welcome the smoking ban, it probably is going to make bars nicer (it won't make clubs nicer though, they're just going to smell of sweat and stale lager in the future and even before I smoked, I preferred the smell of smoke over that).

However, I disagree with it in principle, it's discriminatory, reactionary, nannying, interfering, tedious and strangely reminiscent of a fascist society. You know it was proposed that a massive amount of tax payer's money should be poured into training civil servants to spy on civilians to check they're not breaking the smoking ban?

I don't have a sig, live with it.

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