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Geek Culture / Bulletproof Backpacks?

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:48
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Quote: "Oh and please don't play on that old joke that all terrorists have bombs attached to them. The terrorists i'm afraid of mostly wear suits, appear on TV and have political power."


ZING! Score one for grandma!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:53
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Careful there Mr Grandma, the satire there is a little close to political there. (Though I'd agree with you, as there's the saying one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist)

Anyway...And you wondered why the UK customs at the airport thought you were carrying bombs.

Hakuna Matata
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Keo C
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 18:51 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 18:56
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Wow a hot topic over night.
Quote: "A bulletproof backpack?
Haha, that's stupid."

They could have played a major role in the Virgina Tech shootings.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 18:54 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 18:56
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Quote: "Our police aren't armed, with some rare exceptions of police on the street, and obviously armed police. The majority strongly resist the notion of being armed as well. They know it'll raise the stakes, and arming police will result in more police being killed."

I don't understand how it's even possible to disarm police . All police in the US carry a sidearm and a rifle in the trunk of their car. If you disarm police, the criminals will know it and there will be police shootings all over, because they know the police won't fight back. The police get a lot of their power from the gun they carry, because without it they just become another potential victim. There would definitely be more police killed if you didn't arm the police in my opinion, at least in America. Any policeman facing a criminal with a gun would be at the mercy of the criminal, which most times would probably result in death, even if just because of their status as a police officer. If someone points a gun at you, I'd think you'd want to shoot back (like they do) . I don't have much sympathy for those wounded or killed in shootouts with police, because the police follow strict guidelines as to when they can fire, and even if they follow them have to undergo an investigation whether they did it right or not. Luckily most police cars now have dashboard cameras, so it's not the suspects word against the officers.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 19:12
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Quote: "Our police aren't armed, with some rare exceptions of police on the street, and obviously armed police"


Or at Airports with a machine gun and suited up it body armour - they look fun.

Quote: "They could have played a major role in the Virgina Tech shootings.
"


Perhaps - but the fear that the media will be creating with the selling of these things could potentially do even more damage - makes you wonder though - how many of those would have bought one, I mean why don't they just sell body armour to the public if they're doing that- it's light to lug around than a bag and you've got protection from the front. People will feel 'the day myself or my kids need a back pack full of armour is the day when my kids aren't safe on the street, so I'll keep a gun right by my bed'. And of course fear causes more problems than they solve...but I suppose it's a form of control - I mean it was used very well by the leaders in the book 1984, so yeah why not the media could easily just do the same and as they already blow things out of portion - why not blow gun crime and terrorism out too? The Virginia tech thing was horrible - terrorist attacks are horrible, gun crime is horrible - but nothing to be scared about - the UK has had people shoot out (Who was that guy a few years ago that shot randomly at people?) the UK has had long history of terrorists threats and by no means do I feel London is dangerous - even with the rise of gangs and gun crime - though I'd be wary at night and not carry a set of armour.

Hakuna Matata
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Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 22:33
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Quote: "
You don't know what standpoint my "relatively" was based on. by "relative", i could have tought of a mentally retarded cannibal, then yes, i'm relatively sane."

Yes, I was basing it on you.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Luciferia
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 22:46
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Quote: "I mean why don't they just sell body armour to the public"

Aside from the fact that they do, have you ever worn body armour. It is heavy enough to make you colapse at the end of the day. Ceramic plates and all that. Small wonder soldiers take out the plate and replace with cardboard.
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Errant AI
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 23:06
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I personally don't have any problems with the idea. If I had a kid in school, I would either purchase something like that or make it myself.

When quoting statistics, please keep in mind that homicide and justified homicide are lumped into the same category. Homicide rates include legal shootings by law enforcement and self defense.

However, here are some counter gun-control statistics to think about...

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 23:37 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 23:43
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Strange idea.
What this is saying is that if someone has a gun or knife pointed at you you should turn your back to them??? lmao stupid bored inventors

Quote: "30 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."

I know this is a terrible thing but I just had to laugh, what were there 29,765,420 of them (rounded up)
I don't understand the word exterminate? If terminate means to stop or destroy, then exterminate could mean to un-destroy something?

The answer to the problem is obvious: buy the biggest gun!

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was rubbish.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 04:29 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 05:05
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I wonder who your leader wants to exterminate? Them pesky chimps probably. (Google "George v Chimps" if you're confused)

I sometimes wonder, with alien films, why UFOs bother visiting the USA, it's the last place I'd wana be if i was a strange alien type thing

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Newber Dan
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 10:59
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yes i hardly ever hear of shootings here in aussie, anf if there are its in the capitals like melbourne or sydney.

so i dont think i really need one
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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 11:41
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Quote: "There would definitely be more police killed if you didn't arm the police in my opinion, at least in America. Any policeman facing a criminal with a gun would be at the mercy of the criminal, which most times would probably result in death, even if just because of their status as a police officer."


You could be right there, but I think that might be a culture difference. Police face criminals with firearms every day in this country, yet police are rarely shot. Admittedly, they can't arrest them, but as a whole, police do end up looking down the barrel of a gun pretty often. Not every cop every day, but a lot of cops in high crime cities will end up confronting someone with a gun at some point in their career. The reason they don't get shot is because the criminals know that the police won't attempt anything, because they're not armed, and murdering a police officer when you can easily escape is not worth the potential life imprisonment.

I agree, you couldn't take guns away from cops in the US now. It wouldn't work. Once you've armed everyone, it's very hard to take the step back, which is why our police force is strongly resisting it. At the moment they'd rather face a criminal with a gun and have to let him go than have kill or be killed confrontations each time they arrest someone.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 14:57
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Personally I think the arms law should have been abolished after the revolution - but it's too late, so you're screwed to have guns for a very long time. I mean abolishing guns now over there would be a crazy move - I mean because guns are illegal does mean people won't use them as there are a number of people in England with illegal weapons and they cause gun crime - so by abolishing it, the public in America becomes defenceless...

However, the bullet proof back pack IMO just scares people into buying it 'People die in gun crime' best give my kids protection - when you consider most people attack from the front and then look at how many people purchase it barely reduces the chances of getting shot, stabbed or killed - if you're running away is the only instance I can see people getting protection - okay fair enough that certainly reduces the chances if you have one and are lucky enough not to have a gun pointed at you anyway and that if they're incapable of shooting you in the legs - otherwise you're more likely to be killed by having the confidence in the back pack.

Hakuna Matata
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 15:11
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Quote: "if you're running away is the only instance I can see people getting protection - okay fair enough that certainly reduces the chances if you have one and are lucky enough not to have a gun pointed at you anyway and that if they're incapable of shooting you in the legs - otherwise you're more likely to be killed by having the confidence in the back pack."


In these school shootings, the assailants tend to fire mostly randomly at people - so if your running away your most likely target is your back - not your legs!. People tend not to try for headshots when shooting people running away from them, they go for the centre mass, which is why these packs could save lives. There's really nothing better on offer is there? - should we just sit on our hands and hope this never happens to us?, or should we adopt any measures that improve childrens safety.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 15:23
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This is such a tight issue..there are pros and cons to both sides. On one hand if you take the guns the public is defensless and the criminals get the guns but if nothing is done then some slackjawed idiot can go out in the streets for revenge and give the guns a worse name.

As far as protection goes..kids mean a lot to me and I'd be damn sure making my kid could adequeatly defend themseselvs through equipment and through their body. What are you gonna do when your kid is walking home from school and he's mugged..you'll want to know that you can send him/her out there and they'll be able to take care of themselves.

I guess I'm playing for both sides right now but really my goal is to shut these jerks down that want to hurt for no reason but thats so hard for one person hell a group of people to do, all we can do is keep pressing hard on the crime and keeping our children safe.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 15:29
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Fairplay VanB - I probably thought too much into it there, but I'm still thinking it's another thing to give people fear - yeah it's good to be protected at the same time, but the whole idea I'm sure will scare people into thinking 'the streets aren't safe' and that is an issue in itself, it makes me wonder if that'll make people more violent and trust less people - well I'm sure we'll find out if that's only just a suspicion or what's going to happen - but I already think the media in the USA and UK tend to keep this idea of fear and well I don't want to get into this whole 1984 thing because it may make me look insane, but fear = control.

Hakuna Matata
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 16:01
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Quote: "fear = control.
"


Very true..terrible but true. Lets see if I can modify that a bit.

fear * deciet=brainwashing

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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 16:27
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VanB does raise a good point actually. I'm pretty sure a lot of these kids are shot in the back with their pack on. Having said that, seeing as these highschool shooting often seem to involve lunatics with assault rifles, I'd be surprised if this backpack can stop those sort of rounds.


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Zombie 20
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 16:55
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Maybe one of the more disturbing parts of the process is how and why these minors can even obtain such equipment. It is really a terrible thing that this has to happen and I would want my kids to feel safe.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 18:14
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Quote: "At the moment they'd rather face a criminal with a gun and have to let him go than have kill or be killed confrontations each time they arrest someone."

I see what you mean, but, like I said, they have strict guidelines as to when they can shoot, and when they do are trained to aim for the body or legs as opposed to the head to kill. I watch a lot of shows with police videos, and it's pretty rare that either the cop or the criminal dies in a gun battle. The officer can only shoot if his life is in clear, immediate danger, as in, the criminal has a gun pointing at him, and even then they try not to if the suspect doesn't fire and it's clear he is trying to commit "suicide by cop". The only time they shoot to kill is in a hostage situation, and that is usually done by snipers with a headshot at the right moment after hours of negotiations. There's also non-lethal rounds which are used in a lot of standoffs to end it, and cause no permanent damage. Also, a lot of the shootings occur when an officer pulls someone over (usually alone, and often out on the highway at night), the criminal has something he doesn't want the officer to see (drugs, no license, warrant, etc.), and decides it's better to shoot and run than be arrested, and so pull a gun when the officer approaches the car. The only reason most of those cops are alive is because they are able to use their training to quickly use their own guns to shoot back. Anyway, just saying that killings by cops are fairly rare, and they follow strict guidelines aiming to not kill the suspect, and police need their guns to survive.


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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 19:18
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Quote: "The bottom line is, it's hard to kill a person without a gun, so there will be less deaths and less massacers."


If you honestly believe criminals will hand over their guns when the government bans them, you are very ignorant.

I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but I just had to pipe in on that one.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 22:17
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Quote: "it annoys me greatly to see a 13 year old get a M-rated game"


It annoys me greatly to see ANYONE getting an M-rated game. But that's just me.

I think a bulletproof backpack would be slightlt useful, for perhaps hiding your face or heart as someone mentioned already, but really, a bullet moves a lot faster than a person can react in time to move the backpack in front of it. It may even challange the bad guys to try to hurt people anyways...it may turn it into more of a game for them.
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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 02:33
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Quote: "face or heart as someone mentioned already"

I mentioned it because in a school shooting where it is most useful you can react before you even see anyone. Like hiding in a corner covering your face an other vital organs. Bulletproof Backpacks good idea, but way harder to use.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 02:44
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Quote: "I think a bulletproof backpack would be slightlt useful, for perhaps hiding your face or heart as someone mentioned already, but really, a bullet moves a lot faster than a person can react in time to move the backpack in front of it. It may even challange the bad guys to try to hurt people anyways...it may turn it into more of a game for them."


It's not hard to react. I mean, when you see a gun, hit the dirt immediately, and use everything nearby like a pinball machine. Like run for a wall and kick up and off everything insight. Dive, and do whatever to make your movements randomized.

That's what'd I do, however, you may end up getting shot anyways, but atleast you died trying to get away.
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 03:01
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Yea but the thing is what posesses these little gits to pull these stunts. I'd love to get a hold of one of them unarmed in a circle where there was no way to get out but by being the last standing. I know judo, wrestling and general disarming as well as just a few cool things I've found by watching people move, they'd wise up real quick but then again is violence on violence going to solve anything?

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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 06:14 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2007 06:18
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Quote: "but then again is violence on violence going to solve anything?"

No it's not. I shouldn't have bought up bulletproof backpacks in the first place. I should have known this thread would have turned to the Gun Control Issue immediately.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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Advancement Games
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 06:22
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This is the most retarded idea ever. First, with all the books and crap in the pack, it will probably stop a regular bullet anyway. Second, they won't shoot for the pack, duh.
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 14:47
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Quote: "No it's not. I shouldn't have bought up bulletproof backpacks in the first place. I should have known this thread would have turned to the Gun Control Issue immediately.
"


Well I should apologize for continuing it..but it is a very hot issue to me and I do like to know other's opinoins on it..in my mind you did a bit of good in this thread.

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 14:51
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To be fair, it's one of the few things we can discuss that's important and current but neither political nor religious.


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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:03
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Fallout-Very true..and we've gotten a bit of intelligent converstation out of it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:11 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2007 15:16
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Besides it seems obvious that no guns in society would be totally uber awesome...But realistically, it would be social suicide banning them - because ban doesn't mean every gun = gone, like in England we have gun crime, people will still have guns and still use them...except the honest member of the public who hands his gun over and is incapable of defending his family. The criminals would still be obliged to carry a gun, I mean they'd think a gun ban would be an opportunity to victimise more people and steal things from them. Guns are a problem and can be a lot more trouble, but with the amount of violent people carrying guns and the amount of guns in circulation, banning them would mean chaos, as you literally can't remove every single weapon from every hidden spot.

It would be lovely not to have guns and gun crime over there and even over here, but the reality is, to change that would only have to be longitudinal and wouldn't be wise to 'completely' remove them within our life time - it's sad, but keeping guns for now is the lesser of two evils...then I'm sure people will debate if gun possession really is an 'evil' - as people fall back on the argument 'Guns don't kill people, people do' - which Eddie Izzard contradicts with 'Well they bloody help, because you don't run up to someone and say bang...' and so on with his joke. Or you've got the Goldy Looking Chain version, 'Guns don't kill people, rappers do'. But that's a whole different debate - in fact it's a mass debate in society, though I wouldn't personally join and mass debate in public - it's a private thing I do. (Yeah, groan at that pun if you will)

Any other way seems completely illogical to me - it's a nice bit of idealism, but so is Marxism and how realistic is it if we were to even become this idealism of a utopia where everybody is equal and has an equal role in the function of society. (Sorry Grandma, I know you're a Marxist)

Hakuna Matata
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:26
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To go onto the utopia for a sec..I sometimes wish it was truly possible...I have desired that kind of simple community life..but eh I'm just a simple undead man trying to make his way through the world.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:36 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2007 15:37
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Move to Africa and join the Bushman tribe. Or an island off of the coast of Australia and live with one of those tribes - simple community life. The ones off of the coast of Australia seem pretty neat - catching fish, partying, collecting fruit, building homes recycling the land - simple, primitive but a peace loving society where everybody is equal and have equal roles in society. I think they are called the 'Samaen' tribes but I'm likely to be wrong. But I've always fancied going out and spending a few months with one of these tribes.

Hakuna Matata
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Manic
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:51
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utopia? pah! Where's the fun in that? How would i be able to go around feeling superior if everyone was equal?

I'm rooting for a dystopian meritocracy, where the weak and stupid are put to death in circuses for the entertainment of the educated elite, who chatter about how it "really is the best use for the poor wretches, isn't it?" and "I know some people say we're no better than the romans, but really this the best way isn't it?" and "I hope the IQ threshold isn't raised above my own..."

I don't have a sig, live with it.
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 15:52
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May go down to one of those tribes..I plan to travel the world.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:01
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You should check out the latest KoRn video Manic, called Evolution, even if you don't like KoRn, it's a pretty interesting video (the best one I've seen from them in a while) - basically smart people need to breed more or the human race is doomed!.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
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Manic
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:16
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@Van: lol, I'll have to look it up when i get back from work, have you seen Idiocracy? That's got a similar theme.

I don't have a sig, live with it.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:17
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Quote: "basically smart people need to breed more or the human race is doomed!."


Good thing I want to have a bunch of kids someday (you guys owe me one)



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Grandma
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:22 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2007 16:23
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Quote: "basically smart people need to breed more or the human race is doomed!."


Somehow that reminded me of a movie called Idiocracy. If you haven't seen it then please look it up, it also packs a few laughs here and there aswell as being somewhat sad.

Edit: Hmmm i see Manic beat me to it.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:28 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2007 16:34
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Quote: "it will probably stop a regular bullet anyway"

It can stop a Glock 9mm dead in close range.
Quote: "Well I should apologize for continuing it..but it is a very hot issue to me"
It is a hot issue to nearly everyone. But it has gotten quite interesting hasn't it? Well since gun control is the thing we are really talking about. I don't think putting a lid on guns would help matters any. Here in the US when the counseled weapon rate when up as to did crime go down. Or that's what I heard. And is making a homemade firearm very hard? If criminals what guns so bad they will most likely make their own.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:29
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Quote: "called Evolution, even if you don't like KoRn, it's a pretty interesting video (the best one I've seen from them in a while) - basically smart people need to breed more or the human race is doomed!."


I've seen that, pretty entertaining and interesting, the idea that we're going to devolve.

Hakuna Matata
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2007 16:32
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Quote: "Somehow that reminded me of a movie called Idiocracy. If you haven't seen it then please look it up, it also packs a few laughs here and there aswell as being somewhat sad.

"


I'll have to check it out.

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 02:19
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I for one enjoy shooting guns, so banning them is just essentially taking away enjoyment for many people, as the criminals will not hand them over. I just don't see the logic in a ban. Many people also require guns for their jobs--- so force them to enter a new career?

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GatorHex
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 03:12
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Talk about culture clash...

UK
Mum get the kids in the car and drives them to school
END

USA
Mom gets kids into the Hummer V, quickly checks she's got her MPK5 in the glove box, puts bullet proof backpacks on kids and sends them into school where they have to pass through metal detector and swear alegance to the flag before class starts!
END

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 05:00
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Of course that's spoken like a true non-American

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DrewG
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 07:25
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@ Gatorhex, why are you implying that UK is way more simplistic than the USA?
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Sibraa5
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 11:16
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Creappiest idea ever. Who the hell would want that? As if I'll go shoot someones bag...

Coming Soon: Outbreak
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 13:02
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Quote: "@ Gatorhex, why are you implying that UK is way more simplistic than the USA?"


On the UK half of that statement, he's basically right, parents may check their kids have everything like their lunch or dinner money - if they're younger see them off, give them a hug and say good bye.

As for the American side of things, I don't know how accurate he is there - but I think he was making a point about how things are different here and there - you guys are so tight about protection - when our main cities too get gun crime, we've had maniacs go around shooting people, we've had terrorists longer than you guys (for the last 40 years) and are not scared about our kids going to school. (Which essentially this product suggests people are - or will make people) Okay it is good to protect your kids when you have the possible threats of attacks.

Hakuna Matata
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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 13:09
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Who would want a bulletproof backpack?

Let me just go ask my son...

Yeah, he says he'd absolutely freakin love a bulletproof backpack. Imagine going into school with a pack that could stop a bullet!, he'd be the envy of the whole damn school!.

A lot of people here are failing to look at this from the affected peoples POV - namely kids and parents. Pretty much NOTHING has been done to help prevent attacks on schools, not in the 10+ years since Dunblane, nor since Columbine - this is a step forward in preparing for the worst case scenario, if the worst case scenario stopped happening then we wouldn't need this level of protection.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 13:15
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I think all the metal detectors and security guards in US high schools shows some progress. Having said that, if a lunatic is hellbent on shooting some kids, there's really not much you can do about it.


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