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Work in Progress / Estate of Mind. WIP thread

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demons breath
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 19:06
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That looks really cool though.

One query though, you know the SWAT team... would they really just be abandoned in the middle of a gunfight? They'd have to fight their way back out if they just got left there. I think the van should stay there and wait for them.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
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Opposing force
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 20:31
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It just gets better!

By the way, did you get that phone box I sent you via e-mail?

http://www.freewebs.com/teammegabasic/
For low price FPSC and Dark BASIC media packs.
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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:04
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This looks great! Haven't seen any of the vids yet... my internet's clogged up and youtube loads sooo slooowly... but I'm loving the ideas, in any case!

Also, what happens to the swat team once they've neutralised any hostiles they see? Do they wander back out of the map, get picked up or mill around waiting to shoot some more misanthropes?

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:16
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Bizar Guy,
Thanks man. Yeah I'm going to have to implement AdvancedAnim plugin. With the civilians in the map as well as the gangs, I need an external plugin to handle the animations. It's killin the CPU.

i want to game
CHeers dude. High praise indeed. At the moment, without the trade system in place, it is just a run and gun game, but I'll soon have some new features in place, working on the trading setup tonight.
You'll be dealing drugs and selling firearms in no time!

Demon's Breath / Darth kiwi
Yeah, as I said, the SWAT team is pretty rudimentary. In the final version I would want the van to wait at the scene, then only leave once the pre-identified threats are neutralised. That's going to be more of a challenge than I first anticipated.. with swat guys getting left behind, or the van simply refusing to leave!

Thanks for the support guys, I really appreciate the feedback. It makes me know it's worth continuing. If I have time tonight I'll be doing the trade system, that or trying to figure out how to do the peds without losing like 30fps.

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demons breath
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:21
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It would be cool if you could like torch the van if the SWAT team got annihilated.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
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Inspire
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:33
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...or drive it.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 04:23
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How about if you shoot the moon with a sniper, it changes size? What, that has been done before? In GTA? Really ?

Being plain honest, well, I've got my hopes up for this one .


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Butter fingers
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 04:33
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Quote: "It would be cool if you could like torch the van if the SWAT team got annihilated."

If you shoot the van enough, it will catch fire (but there are always more).
Quote: "...or drive it. "

*head explodes*
Quote: "Being plain honest, well, I've got my hopes up for this one"

Cheers. Don't keep them too high!

CURRENT HEAD ACHE>>>

My gang characters are 2.5mb dbo files. I can have 20 of them in the level at once and remain at around 55-60FPS.
My Pedestrians characters are 230kb dbo files. If I have 10 gangers and 10 pedestrians, my average fps is about 30-40.
With the peds Im actually calling less functions and arrays, lower poly count and smaller files. How is it possibly slower?!

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Satchmo
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 04:56
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Check your code, make sure it all measures up and checks out right, record how long each command takes to execute, check your character files, then check your code again.

Your about to get pwned.
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:33
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Ok, I can't suss out this civians thing. If I take out all the gang members and only have civilians, running no extra functions, only darkAI, they still totally kill my framerate. Did a second small test app, that loaded 100 of each and tested the difference in framerate, and the gangsters still ran faster. thing this must be a bug at the export stage. Maybe I'm saving a bunch of un-used materials or something. Anyone else had a similar problem?

Whatever. I'm now focussing on modelling up some building interiors and getting a wider range of character textures. I currently have the yardie types finished, and I'm getting there with the BNP (white supremecist faction). Both are looking pretty cool. Next stop is to create the "individual" characters, such as people that drive the story. Then its on to creating a variety of law enforcers and russians, and texturing the interiors:
most of the buildings in the game will be explorable, you'll be able to enter crackhouses, to buy drugs, or sell them, visit dealers to buy in bulk, or visit the russian factories to get guns and ammo. Once you have enough cash, you'll be able to pay off gang members to work for you (follow you around as body guards). Eventually it'd be cool if you could set them up to sell drugs etc for you, but that's a bit of reach for my current abilities!

I fear the screenies may stretch the heck out of this, so their going in a separate post...

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:36
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BNP Faction members (how much does the guy on the far left look like Sean Bean (its not).


Rude boy faction:


Yes they all use the same mesh. The russians, police and hoodies will of course have their own meshes, but in the interests of optimisation, I'm keeping all these characters to the same mesh.
Disclaimer:


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Deathead
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:46
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I'm guessing that the one from Rude boy faction the second from far left is the main character?

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:48
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Yeah, for the minute. Kinda place holder.
The final player model will have a hood. Since all characters share the same mesh, you'll be able to change clothes (texture).

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Deathead
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:51
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Oh and BTW are they retextures of a FPSC model? Because I remember you posting them in a thread before in FPSC models and media.

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Accoun
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:55
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Quote: "are they retextures of a FPSC model?"

Probably one of the prison inmates from model pack 4...

Make games, not war.

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 21:18
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Indeed. I only had 4 at that time.
This is a pretty major expansion.
And yes they are MP4.

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SamHH
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 23:52
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Sounding and looking amazing butters, when the player goes to a house are the houses going to be after a little loading time or are they going to load when the game loads? The companies are lucky to have free advertising in this great game.


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Advancement Games
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 01:14
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If you still need help, I researching and developing and AI project right now, so I could help out with implementing AI in your game. Also, if you needed some level design and shaders implemented for you, I can do that.
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 14:00
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Quote: "when the player goes to a house are the houses going to be after a little loading time or are they going to load when the game loads? The companies are lucky to have free advertising in this great game."


I'm going to try and have all the locations loaded at once, and just hidden and ignored when theyre not in use. That may of course totally kill things, so we'll see. I'd like to reduce as much loading as possible during game, although I'm going to try and keep the indoor areas as low poly as possible, each one with a "super texture". As in, all objects in the location share one large texture. It's worked well so far, so we'll see!
LOL, the companies are lucky. You should notice that it's adidos. Will do the same with Nike and Puma eventually. Damn branding.

Quote: "If you still need help, I researching and developing and AI project right now, so I could help out with implementing AI in your game. Also, if you needed some level design and shaders implemented for you, I can do that."

Very Kind offer dude. Thank you. Although I did check your previous posts, and I couldn't find anything about an AI system. I'm using darkAI at the moment, and it seems well within my needs. I seriously doubt you have an AI system more advanced than DarkAI.
With regards to level design, I'm pretty much on that. Making stuff in Maya is my passion, so the levels and textures are solely going to be my work.
Shaders etc, the offer still stands. I'll pay £10 each for an object bloom, or object gaussian blur shader.

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Veron
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 14:42
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Quote: "I'll pay £10 each for an object bloom, or object gaussian blur shader."


Gah, must have missed that before! Which would you prefer? I could probably do both though if you wanted, depends on the time I have.


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Deathead
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 14:48
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No need for the bloom shader Ruccus posted one...
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=102187&b=1

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 16:07
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Deathead,
Although that is a bloom shader, its a post-bloom, as in, all objects on screen are effected by the bloom. I'm looking for an object bloom, one which can be applied to certain objects only. I'm guessing (although I know nothing about shader language), that it would be more akin to a fur shader, except instead of blowing out the texture into spikes it would be smoother, and not require a light source.

Veron
I hope the above helps... I'd really like to stress that I do not want to use full screen shaders (it just kills DB for me). In both cases, gaussian and bloom, they'd need to be shaders I could apply to specific objects only. If you can do them, I'll paypal you £20 straight up.

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Deathead
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 16:39
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Okay I just done a search and there was a couple of threads there and if I was you I'd check out the ultimate shaders pack thread it is a sticky.

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Inspire
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 23:23 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2007 23:25
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Quote: "each one with a "super texture". "


I heard somewhere that multiple smaller textures runs faster than one super texture...I'll see if I can get a snippet of it.

EDIT:

Quote: "Texture Sizes
When texturing, think about what your texture will be applied to. How big will it be on the map? Don't make a 1024x1024px texture for a simple room wall. You probably only need 512x512. Another thing to keep in mind is that 12 512x512 textures runs far faster than 4 1024x1024 textures, even though they contain the same volume in pixels. Finally, try to keep your textures squares. Rectangular textures are less efficient."


- From a level design tutorial on the Dim3 Forum.

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 00:33
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Inspire, that's interesting.

I was reading a similar article by John Carmack, and he was saying that the opposite applied.

I did some tests when I was doing the player/guns with different texture sizes and didn't come to any significant conclusions.

For me the real advantage of a super texture is that it's only occupying 1 image number. So even with a shader applied, it will only need 3 image numbers, whereas if I have say 10 separate textures, it'll be 30 image numbers. which is a bit long!

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DrewG
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 06:26
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Great game Butter, I like the style of open worldish. I wouldn't worry about vehicles, yet, it sounds too complex already.

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Veron
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 10:23
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Butters,

That's what I was originally had in mind for the bloom shader anyway, being able to apply it to one specific object.

I'll see what I can do for you!


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Butter fingers
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 13:57 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2007 14:18
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Veron. I'm actually having alot of success with the fur shader modification. I just need to figure out how to change the colour of the fur to white and I'll have a really nice bloom. I'll post my results in a sec...

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Veron
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 16:06
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Awesome, give me the green light if you need me, if not, glad you learnt a valuable skill - creation of shaders!

Looking forward to your results!


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Papples
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 04:24
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Hey butters,
This game is looking really good. Lovin' the AI + the district + the HUD. But there is one problem. I live in Peckham, not far from Lewisham where this is set, and I have never seen a SWAT van in England let alone South London. If you want to keep it British you might just have to change the texture on the side of the van.

As a thought, you could make the so called "SWAT" more intelligent than the ordinary gang member. Maybe get them to hide behind the van or a wall. Or am I asking to much?

Other than that I think this game will look amazing when its finished and polished. the guy in the nike shirt from the rude boy faction looks like my barber lol.

Keep it up. Your pretty good for a newcomer to DBPro
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 14:03
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Veron.

Thanks man. Hang fire on it for a minute. The fur shader turns out to be very versatile. I've create a kind of fake object bloom shader with it, as well as making some very nice explosion effects... I'll post some results when I have some more solid stuff.

Papples.
Thanks dude. As I said the Swatvan is a very old model, and it's just place marker. I'll eventually replace it with something more suitable, like an A.R.T van (armed response team). I still need to make the police, as the models at the moment are stock FPSC swat characters.

There is a long way to go. I'm currently modelling the rest of the district, and creating the shader textures for the buildings. Also doing the night time shaders, which will use illumination/object bloom, to give the effect of lights in the windows!
Quote: "Keep it up. Your pretty good for a newcomer to DBPro"

Thankyou.I'm doing my best. Theres so much to learn!

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Veron
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 15:12
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Very nice progress, i'm interested to see it!


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Satchmo
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 15:49
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One of the more quality games on here, I think you know what your doing, even though your new to dbp.

Your about to get pwned.
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Advancement Games
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 04:12
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The AI project is my own personal project. I haven't done any coding in DBP with it, for it is all in theory at the moment. It's a combination of area based/rule based artificial intelligence, in which I am thinking of implementing an artificial neural network for the AI to learn how to manipulate the rules to its advantage. I have coded something similar for an ANN with Java.
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UFO
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 15:38
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Wow. This looks awesome! Nice AI, it seems so realistic!

Do the enemies gib? That would be awesome

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 20:23
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Quote: "Very nice progress, i'm interested to see it!"


I'm not sure how long it will be until I have it in game, or in any kind of demo-able state, but if you let me know your email, I'll send you the source so you can check it out. It's pretty sweet for faking volumetric lights, you just have to apply it to a plain.

Quote: " One of the more quality games on here, I think you know what your doing, even though your new to dbp"

Thanks dude, that's praise indeed. I'll be doing a round of new updates in the coming week.

Quote: "The AI project is my own personal project. I haven't done any coding in DBP with it"

Well, if that's the case, I'm going to stick with what I've got. Frankly the AI is pretty slick right now, and if you haven't even got anything in DB yet, then it'd mean alot of reverse engineering when you do.
Quote: "an artificial neural network for the AI to learn how to manipulate the rules to its advantage"

Yikes. I can't even imagine how you'd do that outside of C without killing the CPU. Not to be harsh, but looking at your old posts, you don't have the best track record. Before I say yes to anything I'd want to see some evidence of your past work- like the java engine you're talking about.

Quote: "Wow. This looks awesome! Nice AI, it seems so realistic!
Do the enemies gib? That would be awesome"

Thanks dude. They ok. SOme of them turn out to be total retards, but for the most part, starting a gunfight is guaranteed to get you hurt.
I'm still walking the frame-rate-tightrope, I've had to cut out the blood splatters, and shell casings from enemies, just to save some speed. If I can sort out gibbin I might implement it for weapons like rockets, or vehicles exploding, but for the most part I don't want it to be too unreal. Gibs always remind me of the original quake, which isn't really where I'm trying to go with this. Valid suggestion though. Brainbox is ticking away.

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Emphasoft
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 20:36
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Have you seen Zparticle? It is a very useful and fast particle plugin. I use it for smoke trails and some explosions, and the fire looks nice too. It's also free .

I'm probably the youngest capable DBpro programmer ever to post on these forums.
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Opposing force
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 20:44 Edited at: 26th Oct 2007 20:46
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Hi Butters. I bought Dark AI the other day and it's great . I have added pedestrians to my map and they're working great. In your project, I can see you have more than just allies, enemies and neutrals. How did you do the police? Which group did you put them in, because for my game I need the police to be a seperate team that attacks other criminals as well as the player.

http://www.freewebs.com/teammegabasic/
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 26th Oct 2007 23:58
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Quote: "Have you seen Zparticle? It is a very useful and fast particle plugin. I use it for smoke trails and some explosions, and the fire looks nice too. It's also free"

THanks for the suggestion, I literally just started playing with it! Took a break and read your post! It's great, although I think using a shader to create the explosion may be faster. After all its only one vector adjustment to create the explosion. I have to say the effects are VERY sexy though.

Opposing, I'm posting a reply in your thread.

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Opposing force
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Posted: 27th Oct 2007 00:01
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Cheers mate.

http://www.freewebs.com/teammegabasic/
For low price FPSC and Dark BASIC media packs.
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UFO
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Quote: "Thanks dude. They ok. SOme of them turn out to be total retards, but for the most part, starting a gunfight is guaranteed to get you hurt.
I'm still walking the frame-rate-tightrope, I've had to cut out the blood splatters, and shell casings from enemies, just to save some speed. If I can sort out gibbin I might implement it for weapons like rockets, or vehicles exploding, but for the most part I don't want it to be too unreal. Gibs always remind me of the original quake, which isn't really where I'm trying to go with this. Valid suggestion though. Brainbox is ticking away."


They don't have to be like Quake. They could be more like Half Life's. Or you could make something like in Soldier of Fortune.

Just an idea.

Good luck on the game

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 15:41 Edited at: 29th Oct 2007 15:51
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UFO.

Sorry if I sounded off hand, I'd just spend like 3 hours failing to implement something, frags are of course a great idea. I'm not entirely sure how I'd go about making limbs come off, whether I would need separate character meshes missing limbs, or whether I could use darkphysics somehow to make destructable characters. I'll look into it, but I think it could be too intense for this!

UPDATE TIME.

My biggest hurdle so far has been the framerate. Having got most of the NPC code down, I was at about 30 FPS and I needed at least 50 characters in the level for it to feel right.

I've completely re-written the stuff that handle NPCs, so that it's totally focussed towards dealing only with characters near the player. It still moves other characters around, but there are no physics/distance/animation/raycast things going on with them, they're not even updated by the AI. Sure it means it isn't a "living breating city" but, I don't think DB could handle that..

So with the Frame rate sorted I've started to code the trading system. At the moment its text based, but eventually I want it to display a drag&drop hud. That's a while off though.
At the moment, when you meet a character you can trade with, and enter "trade mode", it generates a name for the character (from a massive text file of available names). The character has a pre-defined "want" ,either drugs, or if their health/ammo are low, then those. It also displays the items the NPC is carrying. You can then buy or sell your items, or if you've got enough cash you can hire them into your crew.. Trading with characters increases thier friendliness variable, meaning that trading with the same NPC numerous times will make prices cheaper.

It's a pretty cool system, and it offsets the gameplay towards trading and dealing as opposed to simply shooting everybody and stealing their stuff : especially as now NPCs will use the items they are carrying (bandages/hypos/adrenaline), if they need them. Get into a lengthy gunfight and you usually find that NPCs have used their bandages and bllodhypos, leaving you with nothing to steal.

With this sorted, I'm moving on to creating the dealers and pickup points, from where you will score drugs, and I'm gonna get a few more weapon types in, bringing the total to 7 weapons:
Colt45
Magnum (6shot speedload)
Uzi
Mp5
AK74
Skorpion machine pistol
12Gauge

I'm looking into doing dual wield, but it may require me to re-write the muzzleflash code (to account for 2 flashes as opposed to 1, which will be a chore).

Here's a little video of the trading system. Yes, I know the animations are still a little jerky (i have a few values out by 1 frame I think)

Edit! Forgot to say, theres a new gang in place (see video), they're the hoodies. yay.

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Opposing force
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 16:13 Edited at: 29th Oct 2007 16:15
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I've seen the video and it looks great. I like it how the camera changes to an over head view when you're trading. This project is really coming along good and It has a lot of potential. When the system generates a random name, does that character keep that name so that, say if you trade with him again he has the same name and not another generated one, if you get what I mean?

It reminds me sort of, when you were working on "Criminal Underworld" in FPSC. FPSC is good, but it has just too many bugs for my liking. My brother now uses FPSC and I help out with the modelling for his project.

By the way, in your project, when a character dies, do you use "AI kill entity" or do you re-spawn the character and position it somewhere else on the map?

http://www.freewebs.com/teammegabasic/
For low price FPSC and Dark BASIC media packs.
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 16:35
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The name is generated at the spawn/respawn event, so it remains the same until the NPC dies.

Quote: "when a character dies, do you use "AI kill entity" or do you re-spawn the character and position it somewhere else on the map?"

I use AI kill entity, then reload the character from scratch. It's not very CPU intensive, and it waits to respawn until there is enough CPU to handle it.

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Deathead
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 17:39
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I love the idea of him remembering of what you bought. And stuff that is awesome!

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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 19:21
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This project is rocketing along! Great work Butter Fingers, this is one of the most impressive project's I've seen in DBPro.

On the subject of chopping people to pieces - I once got told by a DBPro guru (his name escapes me, due to my fuzzy memory) that he built a system where, if you shoot somebody and the limb were to fall off, he did it by (I think) making a mesh from the limb, making an object from the mesh, positioning the new object where the limb was and scaling the limb down to nothing. This created the effect that the limb had fallen off, where in actual fact you'd made a new object and replaced the limb with it. Worth thinking about, but if you had to remove enemy shell casings and far-off AI just to keep up the framerate then this method would probably be near-suicidal.

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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Deathead
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Joined: 14th Oct 2006
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 19:24 Edited at: 29th Oct 2007 19:24
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Ok. I have to say this... STOP BEING AWESOME AT EVERYTHING! You got a award for BOTB for FPSC and you're most likely if they have a Programming BOTB! STOP BEING AWESOME! Nice project.

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Inspire
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Joined: 23rd Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 29th Oct 2007 23:21
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What happens when you take the drugs? You should invert all of the controls and blur the screen alot, but give the player some sort of advantage.

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demons breath
21
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Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 30th Oct 2007 21:27
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That video looks awesome! I really like the trade view...


@Inspire: what advantage would you have though? surely recreational drug use doesn't really help you run faster or become resistant to bullets...

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Darth Kiwi
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Joined: 7th Jan 2005
Location: On the brink of insanity.
Posted: 30th Oct 2007 21:34
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Speaking about trading drugs - Although most of the guys on the streets would probably have turned to drugs by now in this awful society, it's possible that some of them would want other things. Maybe you should have a few really random things that they want, like alcohol or food or, if you're being really random, books or... uh... preserved butterflies?

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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