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Geek Culture / Making your own game company

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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 03:32
@Matt- Sorry about the mix up I didn't read to much into Cheney hunter to find out it was a parody. I think that your FPS game Pod 9 looked good. My gf loves the Call of Duty series and any other fps game that is worth playing. Keep the input coming. All the best,
Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Jeku
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 09:13 Edited at: 24th Mar 2008 09:14
Quote: "I defy you to go find me a game, right now or a month from now, indie or mainstream even, with as much story detail and cultural depth."


* emphasis mine.

This is exactly the kind of thing you say that makes my blood boil. You obviously do not play many video games, do you


Van B
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 09:50
The way I see it, if it works, keep doing it. If taking a more professional attitude is getting games finished for MIsoft then that's the important thing.

I think that maybe you guys should cool down a bit though, until you have a more professional game on your site. Not trying to be harsh but I can see why you get some flack, people go to your site expecting some eye candy at least, and they get a multi-choice text adventure, a FPSC game, and one of the ropiest looking Duck Hunts I've ever fixed eyes upon . Maybe knocking out a simple but pretty puzzle game would be an idea, just something that you can spend time making look good that people will be inclined to play. Starwraith series sells reasonably well because the games look great, when you go to the website the screenshots make you want to play, that's pretty vital and something I think is fairly lacking on your site.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 14:14
I made about 3 games in the past but dont talk about/didnt publicly release them because I sucked at programming.

Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 16:44
This whole thread is ridiculous.
You can't just assign people job titles and expect to have a decent games company.

The way I would do it is start off by making indie games by myself, then after you have built up a good rep with other indie developers you might meet others who share your ambition and want to work with you to develop your next game. You basically keep adding people as you find more who are interested and talented. Eventually the "company" would need to be structured like a real business and by that time it may already be making some decent money.

Anything like mascots and what-not would be a completely spontaneous idea that would be brought about by some in-joke or some event between the company "employees", you can't plan that sort of thing from day one and it certainly isn't a requirement.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 16:59
Quote: "
Anything like mascots and what-not would be a completely spontaneous idea that would be brought about by some in-joke or some event between the company "employees", you can't plan that sort of thing from day one and it certainly isn't a requirement."


That's preeetty much how our mascot came along.

tha_rami
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 17:58 Edited at: 24th Mar 2008 18:10
Quote: "Starwraith series sells reasonably well because the games look great, when you go to the website the screenshots make you want to play, that's pretty vital and something I think is fairly lacking on your site."

The games look good, and reasonably well is a bit of an overstatement. We manage, Shawn is doing great stuff. Evochron Renegades was being ported over to Tempest, after which we ran into one major issue (a Severe Exception at disconnect) and not even Benjamin knows how to fix it. Shawn is really trying to support Evochron Renegades in a way unseen for his games and his support and adaptability, now that is unseen in both indie and mainstream. He's pretty much the complete opposite of Derek Smart.

By the way, admittedly, what I've seen of EE2 really does have a high level of cultural detail. We're really talking levels near some of the Elder Scroll titles (and not Arena or Daggerfall, lol), but don't forget its easier to convey culture in text than in full glorious 3D. MISoft Studios does indeed need a few little games with a high load of special effects to blast the main page.

Marketing is one thing, selling your games, funnily enough, a whole other thing. I've put some question marks at our current marketing staff as I, till today, never received answer as to how much knowledge of games and selling them the staff has.

Finally, MISoft is indeed in infant stages and admittedly, they do have an overly positive look at the future. But I tend to think, 'hey, we all have dreams', and compared to most coders around here, MISoft is really among the few that has set a step in the right direction. Plus, Matt is a highly motivating force for fellow dreamers. Because honestly, Jake is right in a lot of what he says, but heck, Starwraith 3D Games started with the same odds against it and that's one guy - easier to manage but less resources.


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 19:53
I'm still for the idea that unless people are on salary, a group of buds making a game in their spare time shouldn't be calling themselves "staff" or "employees". Just a personal preference, not to mention it sounds odd.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Venge
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 19:55
@Adam: I'll scan that stuff and send it back whenever my parents get home from work, they've agreed to sign it.

There are over 100 billion galaxies in our observable universe, each containing up to a trillion stars.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 20:32
Ok, cool Venge

Antidote
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 22:37
Eye candy is everything to get your name out there. Not necessarily the best looking graphics or anything, just something different or cool. I have to agree with Van B too Matt. There really isn't anything all that interesting on your site, at least to look at, I haven't played any of the games so I don't know how they play, but Van B is right about the overall look.

-Yet another shameless plug
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GaTtaCjk7Hg&feature=user

Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 22:51 Edited at: 24th Mar 2008 22:55
Quote: "This is exactly the kind of thing you say that makes my blood boil. You obviously do not play many video games, do you"

Again, I'll give you a free copy of the game. Play it from beginning to end. Or go talk to people who've played it and let me know what they say, lol. The level of detail in EE1 is a lot greater than you think it is . And I wasn't the first person to say that either, I didn't really think about it until people who beat the game made comments like that. I'm a terrible programmer and my art is even worse, but by god I'm a fantastic designer, lol.

Quote: "I'm still for the idea that unless people are on salary, a group of buds making a game in their spare time shouldn't be calling themselves "staff" or "employees". Just a personal preference, not to mention it sounds odd"

The way I see it, if we don't treat everything as professional as possible right now, we'll never obtain that level of seriousness in the future that we're all going after. It keeps people in a professional mindset and boosts productivity dramatically, as unlikely as it may sound. The psychology of considering yourself an employee rather than just a buddy whose helping out, you know? At every level of structural management, we operate like a proper professional company. Some of it might be superflous, but as far as anyone at MISoft is concerned, we're just as serious now as we will be when we've sold a zillion copies of whatever game (well, except that by then we'll probably be vastly different in terms of structure because we'll have learned this, that, and the other thing). I completely understand most people's skepticism of the approach, but understand that MISoft isn't the sort of group that signs people simply for the sake of signing them. We've turned people away before, as hard as it was to do lol.

Edit:
@ Beast: A strong word of advice: do contracts. Some people will tell you they're a waste of time and effort, and those are the people who haven't been on a team for very long. An NDA to protect the company's ideas and designs, an art release contract so people can't pull their work from a finished project before (or after) release, and some sort of team membership contract that clearly states the responsibilities, expectations, wages, and other terms of team membership. If you need help with this stuff I'm an email away. But anyway, if these are done professionally and responsibly, they can keep a team together and organized like nothing else

Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 22:59
Yeah, well when you give us a (this page intentionally left blank) page actually printed with invisible ink that signs us into slavery without us knowing it we have no choice but to stick together!

Antidote
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 23:15
Quote: "Again, I'll give you a free copy of the game. Play it from beginning to end. Or go talk to people who've played it and let me know what they say, lol. The level of detail in EE1 is a lot greater than you think it is . And I wasn't the first person to say that either, I didn't really think about it until people who beat the game made comments like that. I'm a terrible programmer and my art is even worse, but by god I'm a fantastic designer, lol."


Matt I've been trying to hold back my opinions on what you've said so far because I too am trying to get into the indie game development world, but this kind of stuff is just ridiculous. Seriously, ridiculous. I understand why Jeku gets so mad at these statements, it's just insane, since the beginning of this conversation you have been fighting for MISoft as if it were widely recognized mainstream game development team. I'm sorry, you're not, and all of this comparing yourself to Neversoft and calling yourself a brilliant designer is NOT helping you. Stay humble, release a killer game, THEN you can claim greatness, not before, but after. I have every confidence that your team could rise up and become a recognized independent developer, but until that time arises please don't pretend as if you are.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 23:15 Edited at: 24th Mar 2008 23:17
Quote: "a terrible programmer and my art is even worse, but by god I'm a fantastic designer, lol."


Ha! That was ME three years ago! I was worse than terrible, trust me. It took me several weeks to figure out how to rotate a sprite.
However I had a gajillion Ideas... super good ideas...

Kentaree
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 23:20
I worked for a real games company (not my own super-real-honest company in other words) with a few million behind, and some really talented programmers, artists and designers. We did work for some big companies such as Disney and Warner Brothers etc.

Now, funny thing, this company, with professional staff, decent budget and good contacts, went bankrupt. In part of course due to the way finances were handled, but also because it's a harsh industry. We also weren't in the AAA 3D blockbuster industry, but in the mobile game industry, which is by definition a lower-budget industry. Now I'm not saying it's impossible to get started in the industry as an indie, but it sure as hell isn't as easy as some people think, and getting good programmers and artists is generally expensive, so you might want to raid your piggy bank before trying.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 23:39
Some of the most fun indie games I played and was actually willing to pay money for (My favs include Gish, Alien Shooter and Mr.Robot)were made by a team you can count on one hand, sometimes most of the work done by one guy, who also happened to design it, code it, and create the 3d work.

Companies act professional for a reason, and it's usual not for their enjoyment, but for clients. (e.g potential publishers, investors, customers)I've been involved in game projects that were considered for outside funding and I've been part of projects where payment was given for work done. At this infant stage of your company as you put so yourself, you don't have to worry about publishers or funding or even a badass website. That all comes when a noteworthy game is already in development.

Most of your posts here have been long and mostly talking about what your company is going to be. Just focus on being no frills. You want to rival big game studios, but remember that creativity goes down the "bigger" the company gets. As a final example, look at the cream of the crop in the game industry, where executives OK a project that sticks to the tried and true, has absolutely no innovation, and is very much geared towards making sales to a very specific demographic.

I support your efforts, but don't try to emulate what you simply see in other teams. I am currently like you as well, tired of picking up small graphic design projects here and there, and intent on starting a real studio and develop clients. But I don't try to tell people something I'm not, I don't actually have any studio space leased, and I'm working out of a rented basement on top of a day job to make ends meet. It's not a crew of hardass developers and artists, just me.

Anyone can be a designer Mat, be good at something else as well. Goodluck.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Jeku
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 01:25
Quote: "The level of detail in EE1 is a lot greater than you think it is"


I'm sure the writing is great, but to claim nothing indie *or* commercial comes close? Come on. Even you must admit that's ludicrous. I've never even heard of a commercial game producer dare to say that, because a.) there's no way to prove this, and b.) he'll get flamed. Just tone down the "salesman" speak and we'll get along just great


SunnyKatt
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 01:37
Not even crytek says crysis has the greatest graphics of any game ever created. While it may be true, somebody will argue (probably some cod4 fanboy). So they dont announce their "bests" in any catagory.

Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 04:53 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 04:56
@Matt- I totally understand where you are coming from and completly argree with you. A positive outlook on a game a well designed game and a team of experienced game makers should be able to make a great game. Offtopic question I have for you or anyone, what is a good amount of polies (to use) in a commercial terrain segment? Also i'll send you an email tommorow and ask ya somethin.

Everybody else i woundn't go putting a game down especially since he has crediblity, this is a sequel game. Although, i would never say a text adventure has good graphics. Second i added a mascot into the game comapany making key points as a joke guys. I am building a team for my game. I have a paid level builder( relaible), paid character modeller (reliable), unpaid character modeller (not reliable), a game guru slash computer geek (reliable) and another character srtist. I have not used contracts yet, just made promises so far and one person is already working full fledge on the game besides me. So we'll have to see how my game pulls together. Keep the input coming.

I have a question for the community, what are some good eye candy idea's for a website for my game The Last Great Swordsmen? All the best,

Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 05:01 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 05:07
Quote: "release a killer game"

As far as I'm concerned, we already have. Everyone assumes EE must be crap because it's a text adventure... except the people who've played it . If we knew anything about marketing when we released it, that game would have sold well beyond anyone's expectations.

@ everyone: I seriously don't understand what all of the fuss is about. And I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't care if anyone thinks MISoft hasn't accomplished quite a bit for a small indie team. How many developers/ teams are there on TGC who have released three games? As I've said a million times before, a few, but not many. Find me a quote where I said we released more than anyone, please, humor me . Yes, I said EE1's design is well above par and the level of STORY detail and STORY depth tops anything I've seen, shy of some RPG games... and if you haven't even played it, then whose the one making the wild assumptions and ludicrous comments? Again, stop reading what you want to read and read what was actually said.

The reason I'm so defensive (and starting to get angry) is because regardless of what some people care to acknowledge, MISoft actually HAS accomplished quite a bit, and some people are acting like none of it matters, or doesn't amount to anything. I never once said we were the best team on TGC or anything to that effect (although I've said that we might be the biggest in terms of how many people we have... that isn't an outlandish claim, it's a provable fact if it's accurate at all). But seriously, look around TGC right now and tell me how many developers or teams have accomplished what we have. Again, you'll find a few, but not many. How many indie teams can factually claim the following:

* Have released three games, freeware or otherwise, regardless of quality

* Has distributed no less than 2,000 copies with every game released

* Have been reviewed in two public media sources

* Are recognizable enough to be on Wikipedia (self-submitted, but they deny articles... try submitting something unimportant, and they'll give you a message a few hours later saying "marked for speedy deletion due to lack of notability")

* Has a development team with 20+ members, 15+ of which are doing serious dev work

* Has a professional website and an active community that visits it

* Have released a commercial game

* Have had no less than half of their team stay together for, oh, let's say two years (we've been together longer in various forms)

As I've said a few million times before... you'll find other teams that meet some of that criteria, and there are even a small few who meet it all, but most don't stay together long enough to release a single game, and a large margin haven't accomplished one or two of these things. Everything I listed there is something I'm personally proud of accomplishing, and other members of the team are proud of being a part of MISoft for the same reason. Think back to the failed teams you've been a part of and tell me you wouldn't have been proud of getting to this low-but-important level if you'd stayed together long enough to see it.

These are digs against the entire team, not me personally, so expect me to fire back in full whenever someone questions our legitimacy, our intent, or our accomplishments. They dont impress you? Good for you. Don't sit around and try to take the jam out of someone's doughnut just because you aren't eating one too. But they certainly impress us, and I'm sure there's a lot of struggling teams out there who'd love to get to this stage in their team's growth. The Neversoft thing was misinterpreted... I've explained that already. I'm not going back on what I said about EE1's level of detail and story quality though. When someone whose actually played the game in full criticizes that claim, I'll say I was wrong, we all know I'm capable of doing that .

Jeku
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 05:22 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 05:24
Quote: "regardless of quality"


There's your issue right there. In that case, I've released 20-30 games in my programming life, starting with a few Hello World type things and even a crap casino game in Grade 8. Now that the bar has been set so low

Quote: "I'm not going back on what I said about EE1's level of detail and story quality though."


Oh but you already have. First you said it has more cultural depth and story detail than any indie or commercial game, and now you say any indie or commercial game you've played. Better, but still not believable. And your complaint that none of us have played it isn't relevant. John Romero told me he will make me his bitch when Daikatana was coming out. I never played that game, and can safely say had I played it, I wouldn't have been his bitch.

Regardless of what you say about the industry, graphics DO matter. This is the hard truth. Your text adventure would have done better 25 years ago. You have to find a gamer need and fill it. Today's gamers care about graphics. I'm not saying that's ALL they care about, but screenshots are a big deal for 99% of us. Have you never drooled over game graphics in magazines when you were a kid? Today's gamers are the same, especially as there are great FREE games that look very, very good.

Good luck, and don't get so defensive. Nobody criticized you or your company.


Venge
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 05:23
Gee this game company thing sounds like fun. I wonder if I'll ever get to be involved in something similar.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 05:51
Quote: "There's your issue right there. In that case, I've released 20-30 games in my programming life, starting with a few Hello World type things and even a crap casino game in Grade 8. Now that the bar has been set so low "

And again... how many people spend years on TGC never having released a single game? And quite frankly, the quality doesn't matter when you consider how much someone learns from public opinion. It isn't really applicable to Cheney Hunter, that game is bad on purpose, but Pod 9? EE? The amount we've learned from working on these games is staggering, and lessons we wouldn't have learned had we not released them. Like, you know, don't release a text adventure into a 3D market without seriously going after the reading crowd .

Quote: "Oh but you already have. First you said it has more cultural depth and story detail than any indie or commercial game, and now you say any indie or commercial game you've played. Better, but still not believable. And your complain that none of us have played it isn't relevant. I've never played Elder Scrolls either but I can safely say it's an epic RPG."

I have to remember that every single word I type is going to be analyzed /. Really, and I mean really, there's a lot of detail in EE. Yes, it counts, because it isn't like any other text adventure I've ever seen. In a good 95% of IF titles, you read a sentence or maybe a paragraph of text before making a selection or otherwise entering commands. In EE it's often multiple paragraphs, and more often than not, it's multiple pages. It's more a digital novel than a text adventure really, but people thought calling it a digital novel would detract from the actual game elements of it. Anyway, back on topic... you can do more with text to deliver a story than you can with a 3D game. Maybe you can't draw out an image of what the scene looks like as well, but delivering a story, rich in detail and with an interesting culture that makes people want to know more about the world they're exploring? Not even World of Warcraft does that very well (of course, they just ripped off Tolkien for everything, lol).

And yes, not playing is entirely relevant. The reason I think I can get away with that comment is because it depends completely on the genre of the game. If it were, say, a 3D RPG game, I wouldn't have said it to begin with. But it's a text adventure, and a dang fine one at that .

I agree with the market being entirely driven by graphics, but really, when you compare how many demos were downloaded with how many sales we've generated, the ratio is nothing to sneeze at. Someone on TGC once said that a game is lucky to sell 1% of the demos it distributes... by that standard, EE's sales are staggering, lol. But marketing that game to readers, that's what we needed to do. The gamers who also love reading, the ones who found out about the game anyway (again, marketing was terrible), bought the game, so our approach was bad. I refuse to acknowledge the "reality" of graphics first, gameplay second... Shouldn't people aspire towards high levels of both? EE didn't do that, it was all gameplay and story, but it wouldn't be an IF title if it weren't like that, lol.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 05:57
BTW we do plan to re-release EE1 with updated graphics, general bug fixes and overall it'll be a more appealing game visually even though it's already incredibly imaginatively enveloping. I wasn't involved on EE1 so it's not a pride thing. It was genuinely a good game and I've never played a text adventure and liked it before LOL.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 06:16
You are not looking at the big picture, and that's throwing aside everything that has nothing to do with producing a quality game.

I typed out this long post just now that sounded like a parental lecture but then decided to scrap it and just be blunt by directly replying to the superficial points with gray areas you posted.

Quote: "* Have released three games, freeware or otherwise, regardless of quality"


Guys like Fallout and Van B completely destroy you if you want to play it in that aspect. (Number of games produced directly proportional to game quality) It's very common around here for people to have a belt around their waist of small mediocre games.

Quote: "
* Has distributed no less than 2,000 copies with every game released"


You are making this sound like boxed copies. In reality, getting 2000 downloads is shockingly nothing to brag about. Ask around if don't believe me.

Quote: "* Have been reviewed in two public media sources"


Again, that's what indie game sites are for. You submit a game and they review. They accept almost any game.

Quote: "* Are recognizable enough to be on Wikipedia (self-submitted, but they deny articles... try submitting something unimportant, and they'll give you a message a few hours later saying "marked for speedy deletion due to lack of notability")"


Your name popped up in google, which made it notable. I don't see why any of this is a big deal.

Quote: "* Has a development team with 20+ members, 15+ of which are doing serious dev work"


So you have 20 guys, 5 of which are sitting around?

Quote: "* Has a professional website and an active community that visits it"


Was your website done by a professional? Are you using the word "professional" literally or aesthetically?

Quote: "* Have released a commercial game"


All it takes to release a "commercial" game is to say you have. Welcome to the internet.

Quote: "* Have had no less than half of their team stay together for, oh, let's say two years (we've been together longer in various forms)"


Going back to my "buddies with free time" theory. I've been on TGC for 5 years, and worked with many people, on and off. In theory, I could claim we had a team thing going "in various forms" for half a decade.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 12:14
Make the color scheme readable and dont have everything bunched together. Easily navagatable (like misofts site) is good.

Antidote
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 13:02
Quote: "BTW we do plan to re-release EE1 with updated graphics"


Bit of an understatement to go from text to visuals and call it "updating" the graphics. Also Matt Rock, I am convinced you are living in a fantasy world right now, come back when you realize you're not that special. Sorry if it's harsh but you're ridiculously annoying.

tha_rami
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 13:22
Matt, lay down, will you? Not attacking you, don't get me wrong, just, lay down for a moment. I'm going to agree with you on Eternal Equinox 2, which indeed has a massive amount of cultural detail - I've played huge numbers of RPG's and admittedly, the amount of detail aimed for is above what I've seen before.

Ignore the types as Antidote. Jeku and Aikicat are giving the harsh way of constructive criticism. Being humble is being strong, unless you're already strong. MISoft Studios is doing a great job, and a general step in the right direction. As a company, you're indeed moving towards what most guys around here dream about.

Oh, and about that 'bunch of friends' thing, and not calling them 'staff', it's 'staff' and that's the general wording I use to describe people at MISoft. I know Adam and Matt, and beyond that most of the people are unknown to me - I know they're there and working, I've just never met them. They're not friends. They're staff.

In any case, I don't think most people here even played Eternal Equinox. Although they are right about the audience, the game indeed was of a high quality for a text adventure. Cheney Hunter was a joke, and I think you'd be better of not counting that a game. Pod 9, too, was an experiment and seeing the bugs in it, too, I'd recommend to drop that from the list of released 'games'. In this case, MISoft has one released game, which is Eternal Equinox, which didn't do that great - it did get good critics, but the sales were disappointing.

On the other hand, Real Estate Magnate and several other titles are coming up which do deserve the title of game as far as I can judge, and I sincerely do hope that they do better.

Now, lets keep this low a bit, and wait until MISoft does have eye-candy, does have some commercial games and did have a relatively successful indie title. You can't win this discussion as there's two perspectives.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 16:32
Matt,

Without joining the chorus here, but here's some invaluable advice. The truth is, getting genuine constructive critic is very difficult! More often than not, most responses will be positive because those who aren't overly impressed with a product (insert product name here) won't bother voicing their opinion. Those who do, will often pee in developers pocket (even if they have issues) because it's easier to keep the peace than speak up when it matters. Since the majority of punters will avoid potential confrontation. This creates a trap just waiting to be sprung.

So while getting positive feedback is nice and all, if you're serious about making this work then it's time to peel off a few layers of skin and seek out the most common negative issues/opinions punters have. These are sometimes obvious, sometimes not so. However, this will help you formulate not only better plans/ideas, but construct better existing and future releases.

Been over this before here

Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 16:40 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 16:42
Darn nobody replied to my question about how many polies should be in a terrain for a commercial game. @everyone atleast Matt isn't sitting on his butt and saying stuff and not backing it up without any decent proof. Although, I do have to say that the industry now adays is driven by graphic's; look at little big planent in the inovations in it. I am making a full fledge 3d hack n slash commercial game, i just hope that my programming talents can help me out, it's going to be hard i want a LOTR feel where there are tons of enemies on screen at the same time and there are also allies standing around in a bunch fighting orc's in a circle. Keep the input coming. All the best,

Beategargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Keo C
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 16:44 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 16:44
Quote: "Darn nobody replied to my question about how many polies should be in a terrain for a commercial game."

Can you really answer that? Make it look good and make sure the scene doesn't lag. I don't know how many other things you have in the scene, I don't know your poly budget for the scene. Just make it look good and make sure the scene is speedy.


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 16:47
Quote: "So you have 20 guys, 5 of which are sitting around?"


That's what makes a real company, lol!


I'm Pro grammer.
Kevin Picone
22
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 17:06
Beast E Gargoyle,

Quote: "Offtopic question I have for you or anyone, what is a good amount of polies (to use) in a commercial terrain segment?"


The number of polygons within a 3D object, has nothing to be with the commercial viability of a game.

Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 18:17 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 18:17
We'll I want the terrain to look great, but not lag in FPS's. Best,
Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Jeku
Moderator
21
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 25th Mar 2008 21:19
Quote: "We'll I want the terrain to look great, but not lag in FPS's. Best,"


That's impossible for us to give you an answer, and that would be best posted as a new thread in the 3D chat or somewhere else other than this thread.


Megaton Cat
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 25th Mar 2008 21:39
Quote: "atleast Matt isn't sitting on his butt and saying stuff and not backing it up"


So suddenly those of us who had life get in the way of our game dev (uni/work/gf) are not allowed to comment?

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Dr Manette
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Location: BioFox Games hq
Posted: 25th Mar 2008 21:44 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 21:48
Quote: "How many developers/ teams are there on TGC who have released three games?"


To mention one, BioFox Games. We have three games, each increasing in quality and number of downloads. While none of them got thousands of downloads, Immortal Guardian 2(our most recent game) got over 100 it's first couple weeks. My suspicion is that at least some of your downloads are bots, but I can't claim that.

I'm not against MISoft, fact is we're in the same boat. Both are teams want to become successful indie developers. We've gone at it different ways, though. BioFox is a small, seven person team, we've released three games and are working on one right now. Our site looks as professional as we want it to be and while we're not contracted, there is a certain chain of command.

Now I consider BioFox to be fairly well known, not by everyone, but well enough that a few people recognize the name on here. We also believe we're going to be successful and become popular as an indie developer. My advice is hype your games and your group, but don't OVER hype it. Sure, you have dreams but to state that EE1 is critically acclaimed is a bit silly, honestly. There's nothing wrong with pride, but you start making your team look bad when you viciously defend it like you have been.

I seriously look forward to some competition between us, clean competition of course.

And just for fun...

Have released three games, freeware or otherwise, regardless of quality
Has a professional website and an active community that visits it
Have had no less than half of their team stay together for, oh, let's say two years (we've been together longer in various forms)

SunnyKatt
18
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Location: USA
Posted: 25th Mar 2008 22:39
Ill show you all up when I release BK! You'll see! You'll all see!

Matt:
I think they're being a bit harsh. But take thier advice.

Roxas
19
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Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 25th Mar 2008 22:47
I think its now a good time tell you guys that i was main programmer of Crysis,Half-Life,Half-Life 2 and Halo series.

My real name is Cent Bling.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 22:49
....lies!

You left out Oblivion.

Roxas
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 22:52 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 22:52
I dint do Oblivion. My little bro did! His name is Bling Cent.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 22:54
Ah...

Matt Rock
19
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Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 00:38
What's hilarious to me is that I never once said we're better than anyone (again, Neversoft being misinterpreted or possibly mis-said). What I listed above... those are accomplishments that I'm/ we're proud of, as I stated quite clearly in the post. They aren't being used to brag, they're statements of what we've done so far as a company, and I actually laughed out loud when I read some of this stuff... it's like I'm not allowed to feel like I've actually done anything meaningful with my time as a game developer . I'll keep that in mind the next time I get an email from a starting developer whose asking for advice, or writing to comment on how much fun they had playing one of the games... that the email isn't valid because regardless of how we feel about it, we haven't actually accomplished anything .

Dr Manette
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Location: BioFox Games hq
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 01:19 Edited at: 26th Mar 2008 02:29
I don't think anyone said you didn't accomplish anything... but you're making these accomplish extremely important. That's fine, you can relish those accomplishments, but people get the impression that you're boasting about certain things (for example selling 4 copies of EE, or getting lots of downloads). Maybe you're not, but that's the impression.

Megaton Cat
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 04:13 Edited at: 26th Mar 2008 04:14
I figure one of the rules of humble is, if it ain't noteworthy, don't mention it.

That's like me posting about how I beat the crap out of a 6 year old. I technically didn't brag about it, but most other people can accomplish that feat as well.

Unless you are the 6 year old browsing these forums that I beat up, for that I apologize, it was only to make a point.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 04:35
id software who made Doom started selling it as public domain. You got the 1st level for free and if you liked it you paid for the full game).

After seeing how good it was publishers came knocking on their door.

Publishing is all about distribution channels. Even though they suck a huge percentage of your profit they will get your game global.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Beast E Gargoyle
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Location: Sunny San Diego, CA
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 04:43 Edited at: 26th Mar 2008 04:45
Does anyone know how in code to only show part of the level like 200feet in game feet and the rest of the world is darkened( not loaded all at one time) so only the part your character see's is the only part that loads? Here is a screenshot that shows what i mean. All the best,
Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19

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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 26th Mar 2008 04:47
Here is another screenshot showing what i meant by loading only the frontal terrain and having the farther away terrain not loaded and darkened. Keep the input coming. All the best,

Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19

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GatorHex
19
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 26th Mar 2008 04:49
camera distance + fog or maybe you mean LOD load on demand?

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer

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