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Geek Culture / The Military?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 08:18
Quote: "I wouldn't trust drugees. They're the ones who break into your house to steal your stuff to pay for their habit."

That's a nice generalization.

Jeku
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 09:51
Quote: "That's a nice generalization."


And almost always true.


Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 10:22
Are you kidding? I assumed we were just talking about those who take marijuana.

Grandma
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 10:55
Quote: "And almost always true."



Care to show us where you got an idea like that? I've smoked it, my friends smoke it regurarly. We have barely robbed a dozen houses. It carries such a reputation that everyone who does it are "bad" in some way. Because it is illegal in some places? Why? It's not addictive, you can't overdose on it and it's weaker than alcohol and tobacco plus it has medicinal uses. Oh well, it just isn't as common as alcohol, therefore it must be bad.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 11:06
I think a lot of people have some kind of preconception that all drugs are bad and that the only people that do them are bad people. Of course these people usually never have any first (or second hand) knowledge on the matter and just go by what they read on the internet or hear on the news. It sucks, but ignorance is part of human nature.

Quote: "It's not addictive, you can't overdose on it and it's weaker than alcohol and tobacco plus it has medicinal uses."

Indeed. What are the odds someone's going to link to some article contradicting this?

bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 11:11 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 11:16
Quote: "That's a nice generalization."


Yes, and saying those with guns are teh devil and will shoot you is not a gross generalization.

additionally, I'm not referring to your average toker I'm talking about the more hardcord users


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ionstream
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 11:58
Quote: "I think a lot of people have some kind of preconception that all drugs are bad and that the only people that do them are bad people."


I guess we're all not wise enough to realize that there is some good in actively destroying your mind.

Quote: "Of course these people usually never have any first (or second hand) knowledge on the matter and just go by what they read on the internet or hear on the news."


Anyone who has ever attended a public high school will have a first hand knowledge on the matter. People are always so quick to justify their use of drugs there.

Quote: "It sucks, but ignorance is part of human nature."


Please don't play the "human nature" card. If it's human nature then it's part of your nature too, so don't pretend you're somehow excluded.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 12:36
Quote: "I wouldn't trust drugees. They're the ones who break into your house to steal your stuff to pay for their habit."

I'm not talking about coke heads and crack addicts.

Rifles are hunting weapons, I see nothing wrong with that. I think the problem is handguns. The only purose of a handgun is to shoot someone. We need handguns because other people have handguns. I could protect my house with a tazer just as easily, I don't have to stain my carpet with some crackhead's blood.

In any event, marijuana is victimless crime. Though someone abusing it might be hurting themselves nobody else is going to be hurt. I understand that gun possession is in our constitution but that doesn't make it right - America was a very different place when that was important. Now we need guns because everyone else has a gun. I don't feel safe in America.


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Grandma
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 12:39
Quote: "I guess we're all not wise enough to realize that there is some good in actively destroying your mind."

Umm, we're still on the topic of marijuana, right? It doesn't damage your mind, unlike alcohol which I am strongly against. Haven't had a drop of it my entire life.

Quote: "Anyone who has ever attended a public high school will have a first hand knowledge on the matter. People are always so quick to justify their use of drugs there."

School isn't the best place to get educated on something like that as the schools have enormous pressure on them to keep their pupils away from drugs, any drugs as it will make the school look good and parents happy. They will do their best to scare people. I'm not against that, most drugs are bad for you. There is just so many different types of drugs that you can't just put the same label on all of them, and believe they all have this or that effect from generalization. Like damaging your mind. That doesn't cover all drugs. That type of thinking makes marijuana bad by association, which is probably why people are ignorant about this.

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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 13:39 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 13:40
Quote: "What are the odds someone's going to link to some article contradicting this?"

I don't need an article; I deal with drug users everyday in the prison I work at. Many (not all) marijuana users graduate to a "heavier" drug, to get a greater high. I personally have (had) a friend who had a full-ride to the University of Michigan and a great girl; he smoked so much weed it affected his grades and his relationship. He also became pretty dull in the mind. The last time I saw him, he was flipping burgers at a bowling alley.

In my opinion; if people can use it in moderation (and not around others who can get the second hand smoke) it's about the same as alcohol...as far as being detrimental to your health. As in alcohol; you should'nt drive, operate heavy equipment...or use guns when using it.

-Keith

Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 14:06
Quote: "Yes, and saying those with guns are teh devil and will shoot you is not a gross generalization."

I completely agree (not the sarcasm, I agree that it's a generalization).

Quote: "I guess we're all not wise enough to realize that there is some good in actively destroying your mind."

Good of you to make a statement that so well demonstrates the statement it is quoting.

Jeku
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 16:34
Ok, I'm talking about hard drugs, not marijuana In my city just about every single car or house break-in is a junkie trying to pay for his/her coke fix.

I don't take issue with marijuana, as pretty much everyone I know has tried it. The difference are those who I know that took it every day in high school--- it made them a little dumb. It kills brain cells, but then again so does alcohol. I'd much rather catch my kids smoking up than drinking and driving.


RedneckRambo
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 17:17 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 17:18
People are talking as if everyone in America walks around carrying a gun. Well that's not true, not even slightly true. Anyone can buy a gun, but not just anyone can walk around town with a gun.

Not just any person can go buy a gun and walk around the streets with it. You have to do a bunch of crap just to be able to walk around with a concealed gun. And just because you go through the steps to do it, doesn't mean that you will end up being allowed.

Marijuana is the gate way drug. And no, it's not an addictive drug but it creates addictive behaviors. Nearly every person I know that smokes it on a regular basis (and believe me I know a lot lol) end up taking a higher level of drug.

ionstream
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 19:06
Quote: "School isn't the best place to get educated on something like that as the schools have enormous pressure on them to keep their pupils away from drugs, any drugs as it will make the school look good and parents happy."


That's not what I meant, I meant that you are constantly surrounded by pot-heads that almost verbatim act the way Benjamin does about the subject, that people who are anti-marijuana are following preconceived notions without actual experience just because their parents or The Man told them not to.

Quote: "Good of you to make a statement that so well demonstrates the statement it is quoting."


I make no statement as to whether drug addicts are good people or not. And yes, "drugs are bad" is a preconceived notion because, well, it's true. How bad depends obviously, and marijuana is probably at the bottom of that list.

Quote: "In my opinion; if people can use it in moderation (and not around others who can get the second hand smoke) it's about the same as alcohol..."


I agree with you for the most part, although I'm not a big alcohol fan myself. I honestly think my friends drink just because they're not supposed to :/ .

NanoGamez guy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 19:22 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 19:23
[EDIT] Ops! Didn't see 2 Pages!


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Grandma
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 19:53
Quote: "That's not what I meant, I meant that you are constantly surrounded by pot-heads that almost verbatim act the way Benjamin does about the subject, that people who are anti-marijuana are following preconceived notions without actual experience just because their parents or The Man told them not to."

Oh I see. Carry on then.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 21:03
Quote: "I have 3 rifles, what do you think of me now?"

This is why it's all relative - if you know somebody has a gun in the UK, it's different to somebody in the US or Canada - though people use rifles to go hunting in the UK, but if if you live in the UK and I saw a pistol in your draw I might not think so highly. Such arms are illegal and I'd be suspicious as to why you would need one...to me, in not so run down places the argument 'to protect my family from a potential threat' doesn't suffice, because the chances would be so slim that you'd need one or could use one...at least in the UK, hence they're illegal here. (if they were legal, then it'd give gang crime a source of weapons that aren't as difficult to acquire...meaning the streets are more dangerous - of course for the US, they kept their gun laws after the American Revolution, thus they have problems that require guns to protect.

Quote: "Ok, I'm talking about hard drugs, not marijuana In my city just about every single car or house break-in is a junkie trying to pay for his/her coke fix"


Hard drugs, yes, maybe, (I don't many 'hardcore' drug users, so I'm not going to generalise) marijuana isn't much worse than booze or smoking, but bad enough to be illegal.



Quote: "It kills brain cells, but then again so does alcohol. I'd much rather catch my kids smoking up than drinking and driving."


Then my tip would be to be liberal with your kids and their drinking, teach them about drinking resposibly over how drinking can be bad - a lot of people I've known in my generation where their parents haven't been liberal at all about it go and get trashed, they over indulge and it can cause problems. (but it doesn't mean it's always the case, though) Those with parents who didn't mind them drinking a little as long as they drink responsibly (even underaged...in the UK it's okay for people under the age of 18 to drink within their own home with their parents about or with a meal) and of course, I'm one of those responsible drinkers. I get drunk, I have a laugh - yet I know what I'm doing and know how to handle myself.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Chris K
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 22:07
Americans have the right to bear arms, why do you assume that means guns?

If someone had a bazooka or whatever, they couldn't say "Er, right to bear arms, idiot", could they? A nuclear weapon??

Sometimes you need to understand that things written two hundred years ago don't apply nowadays, as well. When people were given the right to defend themselves it was an effort to create stability, nowadays it causes way more trouble than it is worth.

There's this myth that rules or ways that are really old kind of 'grow' in correctness. The opposite is clearly true. Nowadays we have amazing police and security techniques, and extensive research into the effects of widespread gun use on societies.

Man am I glad I live in Europe.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Jeku
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 22:26 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 22:38
EDIT: Removed--- nvm, not worth it


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 22:42
Quote: "There's no solution to the so-called "gun" problem. Banning them would do about as much good as banning murder."


No they wouldn't. It's a problem that 'right' ended up causing and it is also a right that helps maintain the problem and I imagine guns will be legal until a proper solution to the problem has been found (if there is one). Guns keeps people safe from the guns of criminals is the way I see it, a place with high gun crime will need people to protect themselves, right? (If USA's gun crime is low, then they don't need guns to protect themselves, it would make 'but I have to protect myself' a paranoid statement)

Quote: "Oh I see, because you live in Europe you have less of a chance of being on the receiving end of a violent gun act?"


Yes, I saw the statistics a few years ago and American has a much higher rate of gun related deaths than the European countries listed. England has a rise in gun crime, but only select cities really have a problem, you're more like to to get stabbed and any local stabbings I've heard of in the local news have had people survive. But guns I'd say yes, yes, you're less likely to get shot in an European country than USA. Out of Europe's rich countries I'd probably be right in saying that the UK is probably the most likely place for you to be shot. (excluding Russia of course, I don't know anything on gun crime in Russia)

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 22:44
Quote: "good as banning murder."


which is impossible anyway.


My view on guns - People are going to have them, get over it. I don't like them and therefore will stay away from them, the day someone shoots me and I die well then I just get another life, and even better to ask what I was doing to lead up to being shot in the first place. I'm not saying you can't prevent everything, but there are precautions that will save you some trouble. Guns are terrible. As for people breaking in, they should hope they have a gun and shoot me down, because they won't have any fingers when I throw them out of the house (I do old style punishment)


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Grandma
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 22:45 Edited at: 9th Sep 2008 22:48
Quote: "There's no solution to the so-called "gun" problem. Banning them would do about as much good as banning murder."

Hmmm, come to think of it, we should perhaps ban murder. I mean, people will stop doing it. Criminals don't want to be on the opposite side of the law. On that note, we should also see to ban other rude activities, like rape. I'm sure many would like that. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I agree very much with Jeku.

Quote: "Americans have the right to bear arms, why do you assume that means guns?"

I'm not sure what you meant by that one. I'm confident people are reasonable enough to know that doesn't include nuclear weapons.

Edit:

Quote: "As for people breaking in, they should hope they have a gun and shoot me down, because they won't have any fingers when I throw them out of the house (I do old style punishment)"

I like your style.

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 9th Sep 2008 23:14
Quote: "Americans have the right to bear arms, why do you assume that means guns?

If someone had a bazooka or whatever, they couldn't say "Er, right to bear arms, idiot", could they? A nuclear weapon??

Sometimes you need to understand that things written two hundred years ago don't apply nowadays, as well. When people were given the right to defend themselves it was an effort to create stability, nowadays it causes way more trouble than it is worth.

There's this myth that rules or ways that are really old kind of 'grow' in correctness. The opposite is clearly true. Nowadays we have amazing police and security techniques, and extensive research into the effects of widespread gun use on societies."

That's the worst argument I've ever heard

I'm not even going to argue back at that it was so stupid.

RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 00:40
We might have less gun crimes in the UK, but can we say the same thing for knife crimes? I couldn't find statistics for America so I don't know. I suspect we have more knife crimes due to the fact guns aren't as easily available. So in trying to solve one problem we created another - that's what generally happens when you don't focus on the cause of the problem. Not that I think there's any way to stop humans from harming one another.

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Chris K
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 01:50
Quote: "That's the worst argument I've ever heard

I'm not even going to argue back at that it was so stupid."


Why?

Do you have a constitutional right to have a flame-thrower?

No, it's clearly unsafe.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Chris K
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 01:56
@ Jeku

Did you actually say this?

Quote: "Oh I see, because you live in Europe you have less of a chance of being on the receiving end of a violent gun act?"


?

Is that really the belief in North America?? That there aren't more deaths from guns in America than Europe?!?!

There are more deaths a DAY in America from guns than there are in a YEAR in the UK.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 02:26
I did say that, but it was more making light of your statement that you're glad to live in Europe, assuming you're safer from gun crime. Yes, gun-related homicides are higher in the US than in England/Wales, but the US has a higher rate of overall homicides (guns and non-gun related). There is a deeper problem there. If somebody is bent on performing a first-degree murder, he will find a way to do it, and he won't be acquiring permits.

People always use the US as an example of high gun fatalities, but they don't take into account that non-firearms homicides are almost double that of firearm homicides. There are many countries in Europe that have a higher overall homicide rate than the US, such as Ukraine. Switzerland, a country that people tend to think of as being safe (I do, anyways), has the same percentage of homicides with guns. Even Germany, one of the staunchest and strictest European countries, has a high rate of firearms homicides.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 02:47
Quote: "We might have less gun crimes in the UK, but can we say the same thing for knife crimes? I couldn't find statistics for America so I don't know. I suspect we have more knife crimes due to the fact guns aren't as easily available. So in trying to solve one problem we created another - that's what generally happens when you don't focus on the cause of the problem. Not that I think there's any way to stop humans from harming one another."


I know that, knife crime does exist in the UK, but a knife is easier to defend from and to survive an attack of. Of course you can still be murdered with a knife, but take the knife away, you reduce the knife crime rate and you might have a higher rate of baseball bat or crowbar related killings, but an attack from either would be easier to defend from. But of course making knives illegal would be considered ridiculous in this country and thus the line is drawn at guns. If our attackers on the street had a gun, they'd be more dangerous than a guy with a knife, legalising guns and supplying them would increase the number or people with guns in their hand.

Banning Guns in the USA however is probably almost as ridiculous as banning knives in the UK, it would create more problems than it would solve.

Quote: "I did say that, but it was more making light of your statement that you're glad to live in Europe, assuming you're safer from gun crime. Yes, gun-related homicides are higher in the US than in England/Wales, but the US has a higher rate of overall homicides (guns and non-gun related)."


I think the issue could well be: guns vs knives, what's more dangerous in the hands of an attacker? What would be easier to defend yourself from - these factors may effect the statistics, if you take the statistics of murders in countries where people cannot legally obtain a firearm and then consider, would the number of murders move closer to the number of attacks, stay roughly the same or go down?

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Chris K
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 03:15
Quote: "Even Germany, one of the staunchest and strictest European countries, has a high rate of firearms homicides."


Can you provide your stats? Just, I am pretty sure that's not true. I think it is a similar number to the UK, about 20 a year.

Also, what's with the national stereotyping?? "Staunchest and strictest"? That's not even what Germany is like It doesn't even have a speed limit on the motorways. If you are not in a really nice car you should stay out of the fast lane lest you get Franz beeping you from behind in his BMW doing 180mph.

---

I (and most Europeans) find it weird that the US gives the right to it's civilians to have weapons. I mean, the general public don't need weapons, and they are not trained for them. I don't mean trained as in being about to use a gun, I mean trained as in being able to keep your absolute cool when you have some nutcase Communist protesters having an extremely aggressive 'non-violent' protest right in your face. I entirely disagree that if you took away the guns all those gun murders would just change to other murders. There is very little else that let's you kill someone from a distance in a split second decision. You don't get drive-by stabbings.

Leave the weapons for the army I say, they seem to be better at it.

I really don't get the argument like 'I need it to defend myself from others'. Say you were running a playground, and one of the kids had a hammer - you take that kids hammer away; you don't give all the other kids hammers!

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 03:44
Quote: "but a knife is easier to defend from and to survive an attack of"

Tell that to the 20 teenagers that have died this year in London from knife crimes .

Quote: "Nevertheless, that still amounts to a knife-related incident every 52 minutes. Knife crimes were also four times more prevalent than gun crimes; and the risk of serious injury was more than double than that for gun crime"

From an article published on the Guardian website in March of this year. Anyway, just throwing this out there as a counter point - I actually mostly agree with you. It just annoys me slightly when issues of gun control come up and us Europeans act all superior as if crime doesn't exist over here, we have problems of our own .

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 03:47 Edited at: 10th Sep 2008 03:48
Quote: "I entirely disagree that if you took away the guns all those gun murders would just change to other murders."


But that's where your argument is moot. You can't "take away all the guns". Period. Therefore it's not even worth debating. Banning does != removing them from society.

Quote: "Can you provide your stats? Just, I am pretty sure that's not true. I think it is a similar number to the UK, about 20 a year."


I found those particular numbers here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

Yes it's Wikipedia and yadda yadda yadda, it's taken from a reputable source.


WildCat
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 04:32
I was reading that wikipedia page and 125 people get killed in South Africa out of 100,000 people.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 04:33
Quote: "you take that kids hammer away; you don't give all the other kids hammers!
"


And in the same sense, pretend the teacher who takes the hammer is the (hypothetically evil) government and we are the 'children' enslaved, forced to follow their orders, scheduling, rules, laws, whatever... At least if a situation like that ever comes, we'll have a chance to defend ourselves

The vast majority of gun owners in the US are very responsible, even high ranking citizens and officials. Some people collect them, as a hobby, others hunt, some just like to go to the range and shoot clay pidgeons. It's not like we're all barbaric savages bent on blowing each other away if we don't get our way. They're a fun, and exciting hobby to a lot of people.

You'll find most gun related incidents take place in (already) high crime areas.

Simple as this, you give a bad guy a gun, he might shoot someone. You give him a knife, he might stab someone. It's not the weapon, it's the person behind it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 04:37 Edited at: 10th Sep 2008 04:40
Quote: ""but a knife is easier to defend from and to survive an attack of"
Tell that to the 20 teenagers that have died this year in London from knife crimes"


I did not say it was impossible, I said it is easier - what about the Victims of gun crime who would have been given a better chance if the attacker had a knife instead?

My argument is not that: guns = death, knives = safe. I'm arguing that guns are more dangerous, of course guns being illegal isn't going to stop gun crime, because there will always be a black market when they can sneak in guns and ammo, but if you make guns legal and supply them, like America does, but in the UK, then those 20 teenagers might have been more and then we'd put ourself into a spot where we have more gun crime and perhaps more deaths as a result and of course we'd need guns to protect ourselves too.

The difference between the UK and the US is that the threats are different - I don't need a gun to be safe in the UK (or on my trip to Germany) nor do I need a knife, but it doesn't mean I won't get attacked either. In the US I might not need one, but some do and those paranoid of attacks feel it necessary to one a gun, 'just in case' and because 'I have the right', though there are places in the USA where it's best to have a firearm to keep yourself or others safe.

But I think I'll reiterate a question:

Take the statistics of a countries homocides, where guns are not supplied and where posession of a firearm is illegal. Lets give out a figure for arguments sake of 3000 killings. Would the number go up or down, or stay roughly the same IF firearms were legal and availible outside of the black market? If you answer this, please stay why this would be so.


Quote: "Some people collect them, as a hobby, others hunt, some just like to go to the range and shoot clay pidgeons. It's not like we're all barbaric savages bent on blowing each other away if we don't get our way. "


With an air rifle? Air rifles are legal in the UK (I believe you need a license first) and people in the UK hunt. But do you hunt with an air rifle (which is rather big and noticeble if you're walking around with one) or a pistol?

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
KeithC
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 05:38
Quote: "I really don't get the argument like 'I need it to defend myself from others'. "

Whether you get it or not is irrelevent. The criminals aren't going to give up their guns, and most people don't like the idea of not being able to defend themselves from a violent crime. Whether or not the area you live in is dangerous...it only takes once for you (or a loved one) to be a victim of a violent crime. For as many cases of accidental shootings, or kids finding their parents guns and going on a shooting spree...I can show you cases where a single person having a firearm saved lives.

Small statistic (don't remember where I got it, but it was for a report I did awhile back in College): In the '70s guns were banned in Washington D.C. That year the homocide rate rose to around 4% nationwide.....in D.C. it rose 200%. Might have something to do with people unable to carry firearms legally?

Again, the criminals aren't giving up their guns...therefore I feel the need to protect myself. That's all there is to it.

-Keith

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 13:13
And that is why it is legal in the US, because you guys have the threats that can be better solved if victims are capable of posessing a firearm legally. I'm sure it'd be a nice idea to have US society to be safe without the legalisation of guns, but unfortunately the situation is like that over there, and it's better to shoot an attacker than to have your family or friends shot.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
KeithC
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 13:43
I would call it an unfortunate neccessity.

RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 15:07
Quote: "Take the statistics of a countries homocides, where guns are not supplied and where posession of a firearm is illegal. Lets give out a figure for arguments sake of 3000 killings. Would the number go up or down, or stay roughly the same IF firearms were legal and availible outside of the black market? If you answer this, please stay why this would be so."

Obviously no one can say for certain what would happen. However since the ban of firearms was introduced in 1997 the number of reported crimes involving guns has risen[1][2]. It's arguable that making firearms illegal has done little to nothing to actually stop crimes involving firearms. Now would the number increase if we made firearms legal again? I don't know, personally I'm happy not to find out - I don't see any reason why anyone in the UK would need to own a weapon.

As I said in the second half of my previous post, I mostly agree with you, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and giving the other side of the debate. As for your point about guns being more dangerous - I also mentioned in my previous post that the chances of serious injury is more than double for knife crimes.

[1] http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/282.pdf.
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-27.

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 16:50
Quote: "I don't know, personally I'm happy not to find out - I don't see any reason why anyone in the UK would need to own a weapon."

Doesn't anyone in the UK like to go to shooting ranges lol? Heck I have my own skeet launcher. I go through like 100's a clay pigeons a month.

RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 16:56 Edited at: 10th Sep 2008 16:57
I have nothing against going to a shooting range, but why would you need to own a gun yourself? Can't you just rent one at the range or something .

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Grandma
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 17:11
Quote: "I have nothing against going to a shooting range, but why would you need to own a gun yourself? Can't you just rent one at the range or something"

Perhaps you want to shoot at your own time/place and not have to pay money for it. I often hunt refrigerators near our cabin. Is pretty nice.

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 17:15
Quote: "Perhaps you want to shoot at your own time/place and not have to pay money for it. I often hunt refrigerators near our cabin. Is pretty nice."

Hahaha, refrigerators, eh? But he's got it dead on with the time and place thing.

RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 17:44 Edited at: 10th Sep 2008 17:46
Well couldn't you hunt refrigerators with an air rifle, I believe there legal over here. You have to remember the UK has a much higher population density (246 per Km squared) compared to Norway (12.3) and USA (31). We don't have a lot of land to go hunting/shooting, it really isn't all that practical over here.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 17:45
Quote: "We don't have a lot of land to go hunting/shooting, it really isn't all that practical over here."

Well there's plenty of immigrants to use as targets.

Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 18:33
Quote: "Well couldn't you hunt refrigerators with an air rifle, I believe there legal over here."


And I could technically buy a Mac to play games--- but I'd rather own a PC for that.

Quote: "We don't have a lot of land to go hunting/shooting, it really isn't all that practical over here."


But over in my province 80% of the land has been untouched by humans (or so they say). There's tons of wilderness to go and target shoot (coins, cans, etc.)


Zombie 20
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 19:05
Quote: "And I could technically buy a Mac to play games--- but I'd rather own a PC for that."

Oooo dang son, what a shot


grandma- you did say you're going after refridgerators right? Appliance hunting, is this what happens in norway?


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RalphY
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 19:08 Edited at: 10th Sep 2008 19:09
Quote: "But over in my province 80% of the land has been untouched by humans (or so they say). There's tons of wilderness to go and target shoot (coins, cans, etc.)"

Well have fun, I never said I had a problem with you shooting in Canada, or Norway, or the USA, or anywhere outside the UK.

Quote: "I don't see any reason why anyone in the UK would need to own a weapon."

Quote: "We don't have a lot of land to go hunting/shooting, it really isn't all that practical over here."

Notice I'm talking about the UK not Canada. Grandma suggested that someone might like to own a gun to go shooting on their own land - I suggested air rifles as they are a legal alternative in the UK. I wasn't suggesting that you should get rid of your guns and get an air rifle - that's taking my post out of context. I was suggesting I don't see a need for someone in the UK to own a gun over an air rifle.

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Grandma
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 20:08
Quote: "grandma- you did say you're going after refridgerators right? Appliance hunting, is this what happens in norway?"

Yes. This is what happens in Norway. We have an outbreak of wild refrigerators at the moment, they are stealing our food and hoarding it all for themselves. Oh well, it sure beats the waffle-iron incident of '94. Things got ugly.

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Alucard94
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 20:24
Hmm, interesting, we've had a huge riot of homicidal pies here in Sweden this past month.


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 21:31
There's such a huge difference between hunting rifles and handguns. Nobody's going to mug you with a rifle or break into your house carrying one. Rifles are for hunting, handguns are for killing people.

The reason people feel the need to carry handguns is because all the criminals are carrying them. It's too late for America, there's no way we'd ever be able to undo what is done. Maybe you do need to carry a gun to protect yourself, but why would I want to live in a society like that? Living overseas like I do I get the best of both worlds - I'm an American living with every American privilege in Europe and I don't have to worry about American crime and violence.

Anyway, rifles are important in America. But handguns? I wish the founding fathers had been a little more specific when they drew up the constitution, it's a great idea that is rooted in practicality but has been so broadly interpreted that it has created a society where we don't feel safe without a deadly weapon. I wish everyone just had pepper spray, then if I drew on the wrong person neither of us would end up dead, just really pissed off.


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