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Geek Culture / Xmas PC Build

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 16th Nov 2008 20:35
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Though this Christmas I might venture into the unknown and attempt to build a PC for the first time :S I have done some research into the topic, but I am by no means a God on the issue. With a budget of just under £400 (excluding monitor) I have selected some components:

Case: EV Shiny Piano Black/Silver Slim MicroATX 400W PSU- £30
GPU: Force3D HD 4670 512MB GDDR3 - £55
OS: Vista Home Premium 32-Bit - £85
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ - £45
RAM: Kingston 2gb Ddr2 800mhz Hyperx Memory - £20
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-M68SM-S2L - £40
Mouse/Keyboard: Logitech Cordless Desktop EX 110 - £20
HDD: Maxtor STM3320614AS 320GB - £35
Optical Drive: LiteOn DH-20A3P 20X DVD±RW/DL/RAM - £15
Total=£350

The specs themselves suit me fine considering I'm on a tight budget. As a general gaming/media PC I think it's up to the job, and researching into the GPU it is extremely good value for money.

My main concern is that because I have never built a computer before I am not completely sure if this combination of components would work fine together.

Basically I was just looking for some feedback/suggestions on any improvements I could make etc.

Being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 09:31 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 09:34
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For that much money you can get a waaaaaaaaay better system, use www.newegg.com, or buy a whole like I'm going to do, from www.dell.com

Right now (before Thanksgiving deals) a Dell computer is $499 and includes:

4gb ddr2 800mhz
q6600 (intel core 2 quad 2.4ghz processor)
500gb sata drive
keyboard and mouse
case (probably only 250w power syupply)
vista 64 bit
7.1 sound card
dvd drive
integrated intel graphics card (it's true, this is probably worse)

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Benji
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 09:49
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I wouldn't recommend a wireless mouse\keyboard. The batteries are too much of a hassle. I used to like them, but now I prefer wired.

Also, I suggest you get Intel instead of AMD.

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General Reed
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 10:14 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 10:16
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Since you are in the UK, scan.co.uk is your best bet. The prices are the cheapest you are going to get (Its a Computer only shop) and the products always come exactly as you expect, when you expect. Ive been using them for 2 years now, and have never had a problem.

Anyway, the most important peice of hardware for any gamer, is the GPU. You do not need some super powered quad core processor, as none of the games use it, and when they do there is no noticable performance increace. And you dont need more than 2GB of ram (get ddr2 800mhz tho). What you do need tho, is a decient Dx10 graphics card. Take my system for example, It has a dusty old AMD X2 6000+, and 2GB 800mhz ram, and those two components are not the "recommended" for crysis and the likes. But because i have an overclocked 8800GTS to 600mhz core, i can run every single game on full. Imageine if i had an intergrated solution as Uncle sam oddly sugested, i would have a hard time running games whatsoever, let alone on full.

Lol on a side note, funny how windows is the most expensive thing on that list .

Edit: Sam, you can shave over $100 on your system, if you get it in peices from a site like scan.co.uk, or ebuyer.com. Dell is a ripoff. Im just giving you advice, i dont mean to rant.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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soapyfish
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 18:06
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@Uncle Sam

Newegg doesn't ship to the UK.


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Leadwerks
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 19:20
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Get an NVidia card, they are so much faster and more reliable.
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General Reed
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 19:22
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Definatly more reliable, But atm, not the fastest. The 4870x2 blows a 280gtx out of the water atm.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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draknir_
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 21:11 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 21:16
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These charts confuse me a little, whats the difference between a Radeon HD4870 X2 and a Radeon HD4870 X2 Crossfire? If Crossfire is like SLI, why is it slower than the regular X2 lol..

Anyways, even if the HD4870 has better maximum framerates in a lot games, I saw some stats recently (can't find them right now, sorry) which showed that the GTX280s MINIMUM framerate (ie, the FPS the game never went lower than) was consistently better than ATIs framerates, often by a factor of 2.

So although the 4870 X2 might give you 100 fps in Crysis, it may drop you to 30 fps during certain scenes, whereas the GTX280 was shown to keep FPS above 50 in Crysis. Personally I prefer an always smooth game to an inconsistent framerate.
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General Reed
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 21:20 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 21:32
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A 4870 in crossfire, only gives the systen about 30% in performance. The 4870X2 Single card unit, give the system an 80-95% performance boost on graphics. You have the wrong benchmarks there.

Lol interestingly enough, apparently a 9800x2 runs crysis at "Very High" faster than the 280GTX. Here:
[link]http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,750.html[/link]
The 4870X2 came out after that benchmark, so its not avaliable for crysis it seems.

You may be right, you may not be. Ive heard a lot of people going on about ATI finaly beating Nvidia with the 4870X2. I cant seem to find any solid evidence of it tho, so it may just be ATI fanboys rambling on idk.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Benji
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 21:46 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 21:57
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Radeon seems to only go faster then Nvidia cards in 3D benchmarks...

Go Nvidia. I've had them for years, and never had one card die or anything like that.

Call of Duty 4:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Call-of-Duty-4-v1-6,741.html
Crysis:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,758.html
Microsoft Flight Simulator X
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-X-SP2,785.html

The charts don't lie.

Edit:

Wow, the same graphics card is much more expensive for you in the UK then it is in the US:

(can't get it to go into a link, sorry)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=661325&Product=256MB+EVGA+8600GTS%2c+PCI-E%2c+Mem+2000MHz+GDDR3%2c+GPU+675MHz%2c+32+Cores%2c+2x+DL+DVI-I%2fHDTV

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130394

It's three and a half times more expensive!

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General Reed
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 22:35
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Those benchmarks are only 280GTX against the 4870 not the 4870X2. There is a monumental diffrence.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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General Reed
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Posted: 17th Nov 2008 22:45 Edited at: 17th Nov 2008 22:45
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Yup, the one good thing about USA, IMO. Sorry Benij i have nothing against you.

Edit: Sorry about the accidental double post.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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draknir_
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 00:07
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Quote: "A 4870 in crossfire, only gives the systen about 30% in performance. The 4870X2 Single card unit, give the system an 80-95% performance boost on graphics. You have the wrong benchmarks there."


What do you mean by that? The benchmarks were done by a well reputed review site.
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General Reed
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 00:32
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Where did those benchmarks come from? Because i cant find them anywhere, and every other benchmark seems to surgest those are wrong.
For example, according to that benchmark, crysis runs at 69fps on a single 280GTX, Yet on toms hardware they benched it at 35.00 fps for crysis (on high, not Vry high). I think what you have there may be a spoof. Show me the source of it, and i will decide for myself.

On a side note:
Another weird thing, is that i have an 8800GTS OC, and according to this [link]http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,747.html[/link] my card is only 2fps away from a 280GTX, so what the hell is all the fuss and the price tag about for the 280gtx?????

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 00:42
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This site has the benchmarks about right, I should know cause I have all of these graphics card and have benched the hell out of them:

http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?print=1&article_id=92087&cat_id=537

They really should have done more higher resolution though, cause then you start to see the difference.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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General Reed
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 01:10
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@ draknir_ You are obvioulsy an NVIDIA fanboy or something. Look at this
http://www.guru3d.com/vga/vga-cod4.png

Suspicious i think.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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draknir_
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 02:09 Edited at: 18th Nov 2008 02:12
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lol? Im not a fanboy at all, I just posted what I found on another forum.

That benchmark is from the same benchmarking site?..

I'm considering what to buy right now, and from all the benchmarks I've seen, the HD4870X2 is really only better on higher resolutions. I use 1280x1024, so I think right now the GTX280 is a better option for me.

edit: looking more closely at the image you posted, it seems the 4870X2 destroys the GTX280 on the COD4 benchmark. Nice, but the other benchmarks still have me leaning in favor of nVidia.
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 05:44 Edited at: 18th Nov 2008 05:45
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For starters even though a lot of games still don't support quad, my brother got the computer (from a dual 3.0ghz or, maybe 2.8ghz), and he said there was a big difference. Dell doesn't rip you off, it's the lowest price for an all-in-one desktop I've ever seen (at that level). And those sites you gave me seem to be for the UK......www.newegg.com will beat ANY price!!!!

Quote: "Newegg doesn't ship to the UK."


Oops. But still, it has the best prices for individual parts online. The reason I'm buying an all-in-one is because of the huge deals on all-in-ones coming, and because I needed more parts than I normally would.

Quote: "edit: looking more closely at the image you posted, it seems the 4870X2 destroys the GTX280 on the COD4 benchmark. Nice, but the other benchmarks still have me leaning in favor of nVidia."


I recommend the geforce 260, way better price and close (maybe better) performance. Also not as hot!

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General Reed
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 07:13
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Uncle sam, You have to remember that its just as expensive for us to buy from scan.co.uk, as it is to by from somewhere like newegg.com, and import it over.

Quote: "I recommend the geforce 260, way better price and close (maybe better) performance. Also not as hot!"

2 8800GT'x in sli is supposed to be about the same as 1 280GTX, which would be cheaper.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 09:40 Edited at: 18th Nov 2008 09:46
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Are you serious? Lol. I have a geforce 7950GT and according to benchmarks it's about equivalent to the 8800 GT. But that can't be! I've heard you need like 2 9800 gtx's to get 260 (or maybe 280) speed.

And if you compare newegg to us in the same way you compare ebuyer to you, I'm sure you'll find newegg prices to be much better. But I don't even know why I'm arguing this. Do you have to attack every reply you see?

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General Reed
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Posted: 18th Nov 2008 09:46
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Dudes, you are all claiming this stuff, but none of you have any benchmarks to back it up.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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