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Geek Culture / Help me with new PC build...

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Bozzy
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Location: Birmingham, UK
Posted: 8th Jan 2009 12:08
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Hi,

I have finally got round to getting a new PC from www.pcspecialist.co.uk

I was thinking of the following:

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-940 (4 X 2.93GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache

Memory (RAM)
12GB CORSAIR XMS3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (6x2GB)

Motherboard
ASUS® RAMPAGE || EXTREME: DDR3, 3-WAY SLI / CROSSFIREX SUPPORT

Memory -
1st Hard Disk
1000GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
1000GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

Do I need to do something called "Raid" on these?

1st CD/DVD Drive
22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Graphics Card
1024MB GEFORCE GTX280 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT
2nd Graphics Card
1024MB GEFORCE GTX280 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

Sound Card
Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Xtreme Audio 7.1

Network Facilities
2 x ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORTS

Case
Stylish Black Aluminium Trigon Case + 2 Front/Side USB

Power Supply & Case Cooling
700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

Processor Cooling
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER

Monitor
LG W2252TQ 22 inch Wide: HDCP/DVI/2MS/1680 x1050
2nd Monitor
19 Inch TFT Silver/Black 1280 x1024 8MS D-Sub, DVI, Audio

Speakers
LOGITECH X-540 5.1 Surround sound effect with full range and deep bass



Well, there is the system, now here's the price... It's not cheap, but I'm happy to spend that much if it is really worth it

£2717 inc VAT and Delivery.

Questions:
1. I am using PC Specialist for this... will it be much cheaper if I build myself from eBuyer.co.uk?
2. Can this computer use all of that memory (12GB) or is it limited to something like 4GB?
3. Will those two graphics cards work together to process graphics faster?

Thanks for your advise,
Rich Bosworth

<a href="http://profile.mygamercard.net/Bozzmister">
<img src="http://card.mygamercard.net/aero/Bozzmister.png" border=0>
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 12:37
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Holy crap. Two GTX 280s? OMG....

And is that processor cooler including an actual processor, 'cos you need one of them, two...


http://gunn3rgames.net/forum/index.php?referredby=19
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El Goorf
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 13:46 Edited at: 8th Jan 2009 13:51
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thats a lot of money for a pc.

i hope you can appreciate the law of diminishing marginal returns. that is that for every penny you spend on your pc, the less improvement you'll get from the next penny. by the time you reach about £1000, every upgrade costs a lot but will get you little performance increase.

I'd stick with a single graphics card, as two graphics cards DONT EVER make for double the performance, and in some cases can actually make the performance worse.

as for the rest of the spec, i still consider it overkill, you'd probably get better performance by investing the money in better cooling

your pc will only be able to handle upto something just a bit less than 4gb ram if you have 32bit windows, but with 64bit you can have a lot more, but this leads to another issue, 64bit windows is incredibly unstable!

2*1tb hdd's is a good idea though, and you might want to look into raid, its an option which you get with most new (but not all) hard drives to basically get the hard drives to work together to either improve performance or improve security, or a mix of both. the optimal is to use 3 HDD's and use what i think was RAID 5+1, again you'll need to look up and do your own reading, a discussion on raid would take up a whole new thread.

edit: i just noticed your LG monitor, i had that very same one and it had some really bad ghosting issues, when you played a game for example, and turned around, all the characters around smeared and smudged, it didnt look nice at all, i ended up taking it back.

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draknir_
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 13:56
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1. I don't know, try finding the components on ebuyer and comparing the prices?
2. You need to use a 64bit operating system. If you want to take full advantage of those graphics cards then I would suggest Windows Vista 64bit.
3. Yes, but like El Goorf said its not a 2:1 ratio. I however say, if you have that amount of money to spend, go for it.

One thing I would also suggest is looking for a higher wattage power supply, around 1000W.

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Chenak
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 15:27 Edited at: 8th Jan 2009 15:35
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you cannot run two geforce280s on a generic 700w power supply, you need to get a good power supply. I would recommend a coolermaster pro power PSU, its the best in my opinion.

I would say ditch the 2nd geforce280 and get a better monitor instead, hell you could hook it up to a 32" HDTV with PC input for that price. But its up to you

Also... 12GB of ram! geez! You'll be better off getting 4GB of the best DDR3 ram.
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 16:17
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Do you need 2 Terabytes of disk space? If you only need 1 TB to last you a year or so, you'll get 5TB for the same price when you get the second disk later.

Will the 8ms refresh rate of your second monitor determine the overall speed of both, and reduce the speed of the 2ms refresh rate of the first?

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El Goorf
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 16:40
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in response to batvink:

1) i think its up to usage. i have a total of tb storage and its nearing full, and im not excactly the heaviest hdd user, but then not the lightest either

2) the refresh rate of the monitor is independant of anything, graphics card or other monitors. what i will say though is that the 2ms response rate is a farce, chances are any monitor (And i know it to be true for this monitor in question because i owned it in the past) that is faster than 8ms will be "overdriven", which from what i gather is essentially a standard response rate with some added techniques to make it *appear* 2ms, and this is what lead to the ghosting issues i had with it.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 21:37
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Quote: "64bit windows is incredibly unstable!"


That may be true for XP, but Vista 64bit is amazing. Just as stable as Vista 32bit, and supports all 32bit programs.

Further, I've noticed no instabilities with 64bit versions of linux, but I guess 32bit support is somewhat lacking in that area if you need a specific use.

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El Goorf
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 21:54
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i beg to differ, my vista 64bit is just... argh >.<

i guess it could just be me then ¬.¬

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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:16
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Quote: "i guess it could just be me then ¬.¬"


Must be, I've got no probs here.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:20 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 00:22
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Same here, Vista 64 bit is awesome.

EDIT: oh, and sorry if this sounds harsh, but who in their right mind would pay that much for a computer. I mean, are you joking?

I got a gaming machine for about $420-$430.

That's:

Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4ghz
4gb ddr2 1066 mhz RAM
320 GB HD
pcixpress 2.0 motherboard
Geforce 9800 gtx +

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sprite
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 02:43
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Get a higher psu 700w will not be enough I know I got a 700w psu and had to buy a 1000w a month later as the psu was not enough to power two 280 cards and eeverything else.

I'll add something later on.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 00:28 Edited at: 12th Jan 2009 00:28
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Quote: "Get a higher psu 700w will not be enough I know I got a 700w psu and had to buy a 1000w a month later as the psu was not enough to power two 280 cards and eeverything else."


He can just get a Jedi to run in a wheel while it is running, that should give him enough power....don't forget to turn the system off when your sleeping, those Jedi's only can run so far. Believe me i went though 2 in the first couple of months, water helps too.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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General Reed
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 16:47
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Quote: "some cases can actually make the performance worse."

I find that highly unlikely.

Quote: "64bit windows is incredibly unstable!"

XP is, Everything else is fine. I use vista64 for playing my games (Otherwise i use good ol' ubuntu), and it runs just as well as vista32 did. The only problem is that there are alot of drivers for old hardware, Like printers from 1995 etc, Which are not avaliable for 64bit os's. But that wont matter with that new pc.

Quote: "I would say ditch the 2nd geforce280 and get a better monitor instead, hell you could hook it up to a 32" HDTV with PC input for that price"

"High definision TV's" are well overrated. Think about it, my crappy 17TFT, runs at a higher resolution than a 720p "High Def" tv. Now imagine a 32" version of that, Think of all the pixelation! Yeucchh. A 1080p may be better, But not by much.
If i were you, I would get either a 24" screen, running at 1900x1200 As there will be no pixelation, Looking just as sharp as a standard 1280x1024 17". Or you could go for the 30" dell 1600p screen, running at 2560x1600, Here [herf]http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/30-Dell-3008WFP-Midnight-Grey-Widescreen-LCD-2560x1600-30001-(DC)-370-cd-m-8-ms-HDMI-4Mpix[/herf]. Yes i know, it costs a bomb, But if thats a problem, then just go for a good 24". Trust me it will look alot better on a 24" running at 1900x1200, Without any pixelation, like the "HD" tvs.

Quote: "in their right mind would pay that much for a computer. I mean, are you joking?"

People like me. I like to mod games alot, And for that you need a beast. Also if you are developing software/games for the next generation, You need a beast to use it as a base, and assume its what everyone will have by the time you finish development.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 01:54
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My comp is faster than yours and doesn't cost anywhere in the range that he was talking about....and you don't need a beast to do that kind of stuff, I think people use that as an excuse to spend a lot of money on what they want.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 05:17
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I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet, (didn't read most of the thread) but tiger direct has really good deals. You can get a 1TB SATA HDD for about $80. Thats by far the best deal I've found on a drive like that.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 05:50
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Quote: "Now imagine a 32" version of that, Think of all the pixelation! Yeucchh. A 1080p may be better, But not by much. "


Umm...my Xbox 360 runs on a 42" LCD TV at 1080p and the quality is excellent; no pixelation. On a PC that would be awesome.
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General Reed
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 05:56
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Quote: "Umm...my Xbox 360 runs on a 42" LCD TV at 1080p and the quality is excellent; no pixelation. On a PC that would be awesome."

Try sitting up close And don't claim its just a smooth as a pc screen.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 06:27
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Quote: "Try sitting up close And don't claim its just a smooth as a pc screen."

I do sit up close, just not 1 foot from the screen. If by smooth you mean no ghosting, there is none. It has a crisp, sharp image.

I found most of the parts mentioned in the first post on what I believe is the UK equivalent to Newegg, all for $2000 USD less....

Two GeForce 280s(I don't think there's a need for two though!):
$500 USD each; $1000 total.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-XFX-GTX-280-PCI-E-20-(x16)-2210MHz-GDDR3-GPU-602MHz-240-Cores-2x-DL-DVI-I-HDTV-plus-FarCry2

Intel i7:
$900 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-i7-940-Socket-1366-(B)-Nehalem-293GHz-Cache-8MB-Retail

ASUS Rampage II Extreme:
$600 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Asus-Rampage-II-Extreme-Intel-X58-Sok-1366-PCI-E-20-DDR3-1600(OC)-1800(OC)-SATA-I-II-ATX

6x 2GB (2x1GB) Corsair 1600 Mhz:
$100 USD each; $600 total:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/2GB-(2x1GB)-CorsairTwinX-XMS3-DDR3-PC3-12800-(1600)240-Pin-Non-ECC-Unbuffered-CAS-9-9-9-24-DHX

X-Fi Extreme Audio 7.1:
$70 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Creative-SoundBlaster-X-Fi-Extreme-Audio-Sound-Card-24Bit-71Ch-OEM

2x 1TB HD (7200 rpm, 32 MB cache):
$150 USD each; $300 total.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1TB-Samsung-HD103UJ-Spinpoint-F1-SATA-300-7200-rpm-32MB-Cache-89-ms-NCQ

Logitech X-540 5.1 Surround:
$100 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Logitech-X-540-51-Speakers-70w-RMS

22" LG W2252TQ LCD Monitor:
$300 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/22-LG-W2252TQ-Black-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor-1680x1050-100001-DCR-300cd-m-2-ms

700W Quad PSU:
$160 USD.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/700W-Silverstone-ST70F-Modular-Quad-plus12V-rails-w-50A-4x-6pin-PCI-E-1x-8pin-PCI-E-v1-RoHS
______________
$3,130 USD
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General Reed
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 06:32
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Quote: "I do sit up close, just not 1 foot from the screen. If by smooth you mean no ghosting, there is none. It has a crisp, sharp image."

So you are saying that its just as sharp as a TFT monitor? Im like sitting here right now comparing the image of a blue-ray dvd, to the same on my 17" tft. From the same distance, The pixels on the so called "HD" tv are at least 4x the size of the ones on my tft.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 07:13
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I'm saying that, when sitting at a decent distance from the screen, say 3 feet (like I do for my 17" LCD), The screen quality is perfectly clear, with no noticeable pixelation.
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General Reed
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 07:19
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Quote: "I'm saying that, when sitting at a decent distance from the screen, say 3 feet (like I do for my 17" LCD), The screen quality is perfectly clear, with no noticeable pixelation."

Well sorry mate, but i call BS on that one. I'm sitting 1.5 feet away from both my tft and hdtv, And the pixels on the tv are as i said, at least 4 times larger. Im not quite sure what you class as pixelation, But every single time i go round a freinds and they are playing a game on the xbox360 or ps3, The first thing i think is "Jesus thats blocky", And that's on a 1080p hd tv.

Its a FACT that a HD tv runs at 1920×1080, On a 42". A 30" PC screen runs at 2560 x 1900. Obviously the smaller, HIGHER res PC screen is going to look sharper.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 08:02
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Yeah, it's gonna look sharper for sure, but I'm saying that the LCD TV by no means appears low-quality or low-resolution. Sorry for the confusion there. But why sit 1.5 feet from a 42" TV? You would get a crook in your neck when looking at the corners of the screen.
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General Reed
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 09:22
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Quote: "Yeah, it's gonna look sharper for sure, but I'm saying that the LCD TV by no means appears low-quality or low-resolution. Sorry for the confusion there. But why sit 1.5 feet from a 42" TV? You would get a crook in your neck when looking at the corners of the screen."

Lol. Well i wouldn't sit 1.5 feet from a 42" TV, That was just for testing purposes.

Quote: "low-quality or low-resolution"

Well yeah, But i never said it would be low quality, I just said it would be pixelated in comparison to a standard computer screen, Thus "HD" is slightly overated. By this i mean that whats so special about a £300 tv, when it looks sharper on a £60 PC screen.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 09:50 Edited at: 13th Jan 2009 09:51
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Quote: "Well yeah, But i never said it would be low quality, I just said it would be pixelated in comparison to a standard computer screen, Thus "HD" is slightly overated. By this i mean that whats so special about a £300 tv, when it looks sharper on a £60 PC screen."


Yeah, only I myself prefer a large screen with a high resolution-- even though it might be stretched a bit to match the screen's size-- to a 17" inch monitor on 1280x1024. Even though the 17" is not as pixelated, that's just because the display is being shown on a smaller screen.
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 09:53
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I think both of you guys are right on this one. HD is over-rated.

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General Reed
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:09
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Quote: "Yeah, only I myself prefer a large screen with a high resolution"

Thats understandable. I want that beast dell 30", which runs at 2560 x 1900, But with quality comes price, £1000 to be exact

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, i cannot be right! lol.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:13
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Quote: "Thats understandable. I want that beast dell 30", which runs at 2560 x 1900, But with quality comes price, £1000 to be exact "


Yikes! $2000 dollars...and all I want is a 22" LCD for my PC.

Quote: "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, i cannot be right! lol."


I know what you mean...everything I really want seems to be too expensive! lol.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:14
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I get what you mean by smaller screen = sharper image, if I'm playing Crysis and I need to turn down the resolution for a particularly performance killing scene I sometimes turn fullscreen off. Looks much clearer.


http://gunn3rgames.net/forum/index.php?referredby=19
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General Reed
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Quote: "I know what you mean...everything I really want seems to be too expensive! lol."

Lol yeah. If i had a job, i mite be able to get a 30"'er, But if i had a job i would be saving for a car, not pc parts lol.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:19
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I once tried connecting my PC to my 50" plasma telly, it was complete ridiculousness. Massive image, and pretty low quality. But still awesome.


http://gunn3rgames.net/forum/index.php?referredby=19
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Lemonade
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:25
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Quote: "I get what you mean by smaller screen = sharper image, if I'm playing Crysis and I need to turn down the resolution for a particularly performance killing scene I sometimes turn fullscreen off. Looks much clearer."


If the windowed mode is like DarkBasic there'll be a large performance cut.

Quote: "Lol yeah. If i had a job, i mite be able to get a 30"'er, But if i had a job i would be saving for a car, not pc parts lol."


I don't think I'll be able to get a job anytime in the near future. What with college and all I don't have the time...I can't wait to get on a steady income though.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 10:27
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Quote: "If the windowed mode is like DarkBasic there'll be a large performance cut."


No, I just turn down the res to 800x600, turn fullscreen off and I get a much better framerate.


http://gunn3rgames.net/forum/index.php?referredby=19
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