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DarkBASIC Discussion / DarkNOOBS Project 3: Adventure Game

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 24th May 2009 01:36
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Quote: "if not then ill just attempt to tackle the whole program"


I applaud your courage, but trust me, it isn't a good idea. Obese has some functions written up, but that is about it thus far.

Here are the design documents. They aren't finished, but the part on the map maker is. Note that the new additions to the story haven't been added yet.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 24th May 2009 03:30
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its not so much confidence that ill get it done as it is confidence that ill fail but learn new stuff in the process

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who dont
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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 24th May 2009 20:27
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True, but it is a REALLY big overhaul for one person. Yes you will learn a lot, but learning to code is only 1/2 of the goal here. The other half is learning to code as a team.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 25th May 2009 04:29 Edited at: 25th May 2009 04:29
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true, besides thinking about it is making my head hurt so lets go with the team idea

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th May 2009 22:08
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Team, I give you, the Skeleton for the Map Maker....very skeleton.

Anyway, here it is. I was thinking for this we can take the appropriate subroutines, write them, and submit them.

Here it is, I know it isn't much to look at:



Great Quote:
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 03:14 Edited at: 26th May 2009 04:19
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whats the function supposed to do?

also my mouseover function may be of use in here, such as in your function:



you may need to change your case variable to case#, since case is a command, not sure if it would interfere or not

(wow edit 3)
what are all the small buttons and stuff we'll need little images for?

Im not the media guy but I think I can tackle those

[edit 4]
you left obese off the noobs list, might be accident or intentional but just noticed that

[edit 5 - HOLY CRAP!]
sorry for all these edits but I want answers to em all

why do you only have 4 iterations (I think thats the right word) for your for-next loop in the function, but a case for a fifth in the main loop?

[edit 6]
I dont have the tilesets anymore, could some1 post em?

also it might make things easier to split up the big tileset into several smaller ones based on layers

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 26th May 2009 08:11
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Quote: "why do you only have 4 iterations (I think thats the right word) for your for-next loop in the function, but a case for a fifth in the main loop?"


OOPS, forgot to change that line.

I don't see a case variable, where do you see it.

For the mouseover function, it is the same idea, but I want the zone one that I wrote to be used since it will return the value of the area that you are in, rather than requiring three separate calls.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 08:23
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so will this, whats wrong with it?



the case variable is in ur function, not sure what it does though

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Posted: 26th May 2009 08:27
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Quote: "the case variable is in ur function, not sure what it does though"


Oh, forgot to delete that. The case variable was part of something but I removed it probably for that reason.

I think that that is redundant to include both functions for the same thing. Your mouseover one will probably be used for other parts (such as checking for buttons), but it essentially does in 2 functions what mine did in 1.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 08:41 Edited at: 26th May 2009 08:55
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ok I see what ur saying, but since all you have to do for my function is input 4 values rather than having to write out all the inequalities I believe mines easier, but ur right it maks little difference

also wat about my other questions from above?

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Posted: 26th May 2009 09:19
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The idea for the tilesets will be that you can choose to import individual tiles from across many tilesets, and those get added to a master tileset. However, it will only use one large one. The same tileset will be used on all layers, so that we don't have to worry about spacing.

I will get back to you tomorrow with the buttons, since I have to pack up my stuff and head back to school now. I wouldn't suggest getting started till we know what their dimensions will be.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 16:30
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I was thinking 32*32, but its ur call

also I dont want multiple tilesets in the dn, however I think it would be easier to divide up the tilesets and less complicated if they were organized by layer, then our master tileset would be composed of all the layer tiles needed

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Posted: 26th May 2009 21:27
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Do you mean the tilesets before the master one or to have the master one broken down into layers?

32x32 might be kinda big for buttons. If you want to get started, bust out paint or a similar program and begin roughly designing the interface. We can throw the buttons on top to see where everything will go.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 22:23
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I meant BEFORE the master, Im fine with the master being all layers

ok I'll get started designing the interface

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Posted: 26th May 2009 22:49
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Before the master, they are all just a bunch of individual tiles we tell the program to import. So we can SAY import a whole set, or we select specific tiles.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 26th May 2009 23:01 Edited at: 26th May 2009 23:15
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wait, did you just say we've saved each tile image seperately or did I misread that?!?!

also what do you mean by main zone and layers zone?

I understand the other 3, tools being where the different tool buttons are located (such as the pencil, brush, etc in paint), tiles being where you select which tile to paint with, and map being where the current map is shown, but those two are confusing to me

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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th May 2009 01:17
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Hey guys,
I bought a new flash drive and went to the library to upload what I've done so far but it was closed. doh!
Annoyingly I can only upload music and pictures from the PS3.

I've been working on the GUI, refining my functions to make them more flexible. It's looking quite nice but there's still lots to do; I haven't made menus or buttons yet!

What I need from you guys is the inner workings of the editor; loading and saving files, the tile editor, managing the map data and all the entities and so forth.
Then I'll be able to stick all that into the GUI and we should have a nice shiny map editor .

I am currently writing functions to display different window types, I'll list what I think we need but please add to this list. I've added unique features of each window in brackets.
* Map window (quick layer switching and zooming buttons)
* Tileset window (add, edit and delete tile buttons)
* Tile Editor Tool window (bitmap editing buttons)
* Edit windows (radio buttons, check boxes, input boxes)

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 27th May 2009 02:57
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How about this:

Rather than having a fixed number of layers, we make a customizable layer system, so that the user can just create a new layer. The layers themselves aren't all that important in the game, as we can just save the image into 3 layers. There is the below and same level layer, the collision layer (invisible, but necessary) and the above layer.

When the map is loaded, the image is loaded, cut up into tiles for quick and easy pasting without the need for get image and stored for use.

What do you guys think?

@smartguy
Quote: "wait, did you just say we've saved each tile image seperately or did I misread that?!?!"

There will be tileset libraries, if you will. From these we choose to import whatever tiles we need from them. These tiles are taken out and placed into the master tileset.

@obese
Could you post your code so far so that we can work on programming with the functions? Otherwise we can only guess as to how we have to do these things.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th May 2009 05:25
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not be pushy but my works on hold until someone explains what the main and layer zones are for, so what are they?

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Posted: 27th May 2009 06:07
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The zones are just the working areas. Main is the main toolbar, containing save stuff, load stuff, etc etc.

Layer zone is for the layer control window, should we choose to go with the idea that the number of layers can be increased or decreased.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th May 2009 06:14
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I dont think we need to change layer numbers, we're not marketing this product to other people, we're using it for ourselves so we know how many layer we need

so can we just cut the layers zone?

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Posted: 27th May 2009 06:17
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Quote: "know how many layer we need"


Don't start this again please.

I like the idea of variable numbers of layers in production. Have a minimum 3 or 4 and have a max of say 10 or something. That way, when creating a REALLY complex map, we can use as many layers as necessary, but if we are making a simple one, we can cut out unnecessary layers.

Besides it might be kind of an interesting challenge.

And we will still need the layer zone, as it is the area where you select which layer you are working in. The zones are simply hotspots to know where the mouse is, so that its click can be processed correctly.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th May 2009 06:26
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i got the zones definition, and I get about ur layer choice idea, but why cant we incorporate those into the tools bar? we dont have many tools (i dont think) and we have few layer things (expecially if we have all our layers in a drop down menu) so why dont we combine them?

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Posted: 27th May 2009 07:59
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Tools are drawing tools. I was thinking for the layers to have a movable, scalable window, so that it can be put wherever it is needed. Included on it would be the Add/Delete layer and maybe even a toggle on/off layer button.

I think it should be separate, though, because of the options associated with the layers.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 27th May 2009 18:09
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I had an idea for the collision layer.

This layer should be non-existant in the editor and will only be in the game code.

When the game loads up the map there will be a seperate routine that will create the collision layer for use based on what tiles are on the map.

I'm confident that I can handle this routine.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th May 2009 18:30
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I don't see what the extra layers would be for, the way I see it we have three layers: collision, ground (images that will never be in front of player) and object (can be in front of player).

If you want to have complex ground textures you could just paste another image onto a tile to create those effects ashingda had.
I thought that was the whole point of the customisable tile sets.

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Posted: 27th May 2009 19:03
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Thats kinda what I had always shot for, but then we got into those huge discussions as to how many layers we need, so I figure, if you need more, there is no reason why not to have more.

Quote: "When the game loads up the map there will be a seperate routine that will create the collision layer for use based on what tiles are on the map."

Sounds good, but I thought we already ruled that out as an impossibility (I may be wrong, so bear with me)

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 00:29 Edited at: 28th May 2009 00:30
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The thing is each tile has a matching collision tile. You cant just check an object tile to see if there's a pixel there for collision, it wont give you the proper spacing.

Image1: Object
Image2: Collision for that Object
Image3: Collision overlaping Object to get a better idea of the spacing.

Image4: This shows the collision limit of the player while walking into the Object. The red dot on the player image is the collision checking point.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2009 01:15
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is there any way to encode a way to provide collision coordinates WITHOUT saving a whole other image?

I was thinking along the lines of making an array with 4 subsections (x1,y1,x2,y2) for a box, these wouldn't be coordinates outright so much as coordinate offsets obviously, so for the above example we would code the numbers 0,16,32, and 32 to make a box for the collision

I just think its a little ridiculous to have 2 images per collision tile

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Posted: 28th May 2009 01:22
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The thing with hard coding things is that would be one of the most BORING and TEDIOUS jobs EVER!!!! Think, a tileset will have 200+ tiles on it. Each tile would require 4 points found by experimentation or other means which would then need to be hard coded into a program that then saves the array. It would be easier to just have a single image.

That being said, ashingda, you have more experience with memblock images than I. Do you think we could make use of the alpha channel to make an "invisible" collision area on the tile itself? I know dbc doesn't do anything with the alpha channel, which is why it would be perfect, it is a section of code for every tile that means nothing, so if we could manipulate it, our manipulations would be ignored by DBC, but our code could see it and understand it? Make sense or am I talking in circles (it has been a long week and it is only wednesday)?

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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Latch
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Posted: 28th May 2009 01:33
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You guys need to move forward. BN2's layed out a rough design doc. Follow the lead and get it done. Ashingda's got an entire collision design ready to be written. Let it happen.

Don't spin the wheels over the same stuff again and again. If BN2's the project lead, complete the tasks that are being set. Get the project done. Of course ask questions about unclear things. But layers, images, tilesets, you've discussed it to death. Get the project working then modify what doesn't work well.

Enjoy your day.
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 02:22 Edited at: 28th May 2009 03:03
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@BN2
You know I never even thought of that, awsome idea! I think it's very do-able, I'll have to play around with the transparency with photoshop a bit.


[Edit]

Ok I tested it and it WORKS!!! Brilliant idea BN2, things just got WAY more simpler. I'm attaching the AlphaCollisionTest if anyone want to view it. It loads up that object tile(used previously, the pole) and has a dot as the player collision check, you move the dot around with the arrow keys and it stops when it detects the alpha collision.

-Zip Attached-

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 04:08
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@Ashingda
does it still display the image's colours correctly?

@everyone
you don't need my GUI functions to start work on things like file loading/saving, tile editor, even displaying the map itself. I need the inner workings of the program so I can shape the GUI around it, not the other way around.
Having said that I will get them up as soon as I can.

The map can be drawn to an offscreen bitmap so all I'd need is the resulting bitmap, you can work out how to draw the map without me. The GUI will add the ability to zoom the map and scroll along it. Then I'd have to write a formula to return the tile clicked on and editing can go from there.

Latch is right we need to move on with this, but I feel we have cleared some cobwebs from the machinery, we're almost agreeing on layers for god sake!

@BN2
Now is probably a good time to recruit some more noobs if you have jobs for them.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 04:46 Edited at: 28th May 2009 04:50
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Quote: "we're almost agreeing on layers for god sake! "

LMAO

@Obese
Yup the color shows up as it should. DBC dosn't do any alpha. I'll have to make more testings to be 100% sure.

[Edit]

I am now 100% sure that it works!
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2009 05:03 Edited at: 28th May 2009 05:52
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wow ashingda, that is awesome!!

btw, is it supposed to only be able to go from 0 - 32 on x axis? (over the pasted image)

that is awesome an ya our program just got a lot simpler

and wat did we agree about on the layers?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 05:11
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Quote: "wow obese, that is awesome!!"

it's Ashingda's program not mine.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 05:13 Edited at: 28th May 2009 05:17
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Quote: "and wat did we agree about on the layers?"

We are only almost agreeing, it's about what type and how many layers... But enough about layer arguments we got one less layer because of the AlphaCollision.


Quote: "btw, is it supposed to only be able to go from 0 - 32 on x axis? (over the pasted image)"

Yeah the test was only suppose to be for that 32x32 pixel tile, because it's checking the memblock of that image based on the x,y coord of the dot it's a good idea not to go out of bounce.


[Edit]

I'm currently reworking the tilesets and adding the AlphaCollision. Will post it up shortly.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 05:48 Edited at: 28th May 2009 05:57
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Exciting stuff,
I'm off to bed now as it's late here.
See you guys

[just posting some notes so I don't forget]
When displaying the collision layer with other layers in the editor, a quick method would be to black out every other pixel on the collision map in a checkerboard style. A more expensive method would be to write an alphablending algorithm to lay the collision map translucently over the visible map.

The map window will have "quick" buttons under its titlebar for setting the active editing layer, toggling layer visibility, zooming in and out of the map.

The object and tile windows will work similarly. There will be two tabs: a library tab (displaying all imported tiles/objects and allowing import,export or delete), and an edit tab (displaying data for the currently selected tile/object, whether it is in the library or on the map, and providing editing options, including "remove from map" if it's on there).

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2009 05:53
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whoops on the obese-ashindga mix up, roflmao and its fixed

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 06:11 Edited at: 28th May 2009 06:13
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Just before I go...
I was thinking about how to get those tile transition effects. We could have separate tiles that are just for blacking out parts of tiles, then we'd just have to make one image for each terrain type.
For example, we have a stoney road tile and we want to add a grassy border; we choose "stack image" and select the grass image, then we choose how to treat the image (left/right/top/bottom border, square/rough/wavy) and the appropriate mask would be applied. Then the altered grass image is pasted onto the tile image.
You've probably already thought of something like this...

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 06:42 Edited at: 28th May 2009 09:13
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@Obese
That's an intresting method, but I am against exporting tilesets from the mapmaker as that will cause unnecessary file space.


[Edit]

I made some progress on the mapmaker, I marked all my codes(I hope) so you know who to blame if something went wrong with those areas.

Added a changelog, we did this with the DarkNoob pro team and it helped alot. When anyone makes changes to the codes they can write a brief description of what they did at the top of the old one. All my updates are listed there as well.

Also the tilesets are being re-worked, I'll be more serious about getting it done when we'll actually start needing it >.>

Note: The tilesets included with the zip are the new AlphaCollision version.

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Latch
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Posted: 28th May 2009 10:27 Edited at: 28th May 2009 10:28
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That's a very clever idea with the alpha collision test. A PNG stores 255 in the alpha channel for transparency, right? So your images would be loaded as pngs?

What happens if the images are all combined into a a single sheet and you are selecting individual images as tiles. Does the alpha channel maintain a value? I mean if you already load you pngs and are using get image to make a copy of an individual tile, does it have an alpha channel with a value any more or is it converted to a DBC image?

Enjoy your day.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 12:37
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@Latch
What if the image was converted to a memblock first?
Doesn't db just include the last byte in the colour, so it would still be in tact as long as it's read properly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Latch
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Posted: 28th May 2009 13:43 Edited at: 28th May 2009 13:52
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Yeah, I suppose if it's the individual image. But if you compose a tileset from multiple tilesets, will the master tileset lose it's alpha if you build the tileset with get image? I don't know, I've never tried it. That's something to test I would guess.

If the tileset is made up of copies, you just paste the loaded image with alpha into the tileset then the tileset selection/map points back to the original image; it would probably be fine - but then you'd have double the image memory again - actually triple if you then convert the original image to a memblock - unless you delete that original image then it would be back to twice the memory for images. I'm up later than I should be and am rambling.

Enjoy your day.
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 15:58 Edited at: 28th May 2009 17:14
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@Latch
Wow I forgot about that. No if you use get image then the alpha looses it's value. There is a method of creating separate tiles from the tileset and still maintain it's alpha channel using memblock. I'm going to code that up right now.


[Edit]

Ok I got the tile preparation working correctly with it's alpha channel now.

The .dba is attached, replace the old one with that.

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 28th May 2009 19:05
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Wow, lots of ideas here.

Hey obese, could you have the currently active window stored into a variable that you give us the name of here, as well as its possible values (or a range of values) so that we can get some framework done.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 21:59 Edited at: 28th May 2009 22:00
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Updates:
* Added a Zoom feature 100%/50%/25%
* Save/Load Works properly now, I made and saved 2 maps, load and check it out.


I'll work on making different Tools later.


Attached is the MapMaker Folder.

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Caleb1994
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Posted: 28th May 2009 22:47
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Hey sorry to bust in on your project but...

Ashinga:

the map maker looks great! but how about when you click on a layer it would only show the tiles on that layer, then you had one that said "All" and it show how the map would look all put together. just a idea.

New Site! Check it out \/
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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th May 2009 22:52
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@Caleb
Yah that should be easy to do, good idea.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th May 2009 23:12
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@BN2
There is an array called layer_win, it maintains the priority of the windows; i.e if layer_win(0) = 5 and layer_win(1) = 2, window 2 will be drawn over window 5.
The array is set up using the max_windows variable; this defines the maximum possible windows the program can have and is used to set up all window arrays.
There is another variable called top_layer this keeps track of the number of layers currently active, it needs to be updated whenever a window is opened or closed.

So to find the active (or top) window you type layer_win(top_layer).

There is an eight letter word. You can insert a letter into it or remove a letter from it without changing its meaning. Answer
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