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DarkBASIC Discussion / DarkNOOBS Project 3: Adventure Game

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Libervurto
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Posted: 1st May 2009 02:28
@Smartguy
Quote: "just realized something that may well effect our mapmaker, anything taller than the player such as trees will need to be cut into 32*32 images..."

That's why I was saying we should use mock-3D collisions. but you could have the tree positioned by its base and just have collision pixels at the bottom and no collisions above the trunk. The tree would be drawn in front because it is lower on the screen.

Quote: "also back to the issue of how to draw the maps..."

We only need two bitmaps. One where we paste all the visible images for the tiles on screen with objects and characters, and another with the collision data for those tiles (but only static objects).
If we include a border of off-screen tiles we can have instant scrolling and avoid visible drawing. We'll have to fine tune how many rows/columns extra we need for a smooth scrolling. We'd copy the centre of this bitmap to screen to update the map window.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 1st May 2009 03:25
would the player be pasted onto the map bmp or the screen?

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 1st May 2009 05:55
sorry for dp

im SURE this should properly make the entity move and have working entity-object collision but it doesnt, could some1 else run thru this and figure out why?



sorry for severe lack of remming, it says that i havent made the memblock im accessing, but i have, its right before the main loop in a small indented block of code

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 1st May 2009 06:19
What line is creating the error?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 1st May 2009 11:31 Edited at: 1st May 2009 11:33
the only thing I can think of is that you use the memblock to reference itself. That's to find the width right?
Not sure if that would cause an error but have you tried storing the width in a variable? might actually speed things up as you'd only read it once from the memblock.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 1st May 2009 15:42
@bn2:

this one, in the first movement option for the entity


@obese:
i thought that reading memblock was quick, but i guess i can go that route

and no i used this EXACT same code with different x and ys in my player collision check an it ran PERFECTLY (as shown on the previous page of this thread)

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 3rd May 2009 21:49
ok i have NO idea why this works but it does, whats REALLY weird though is w/o the break command in line 116 the program doesnt work, try it, remove the break and then run it, it gives u an error wen u try to read the memblock for the entity collision



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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 4th May 2009 00:49
Can you post a zip with all the media contained? I know I should already have it but I am on a different computer right now.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 4th May 2009 04:32
heres the anims, thats all i have

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th May 2009 00:19 Edited at: 5th May 2009 00:21
Nice, it seems you really got the hang on memblocks.

-Your Problem-
get image : make memblock

-Solution-
get image : sync : make memblock

You have to sync at some point between the get image and make memblock to update the image otherwise the image doesn't exist yet.


Some other things about bitmap.
1. You do not need to use more than 2 bitmaps for screen buffering. All you need are 0 [screen] and 1 [off-screen].
2. You do not need to set current bitmap over and over, just stay with bitmap 1, as you're going to copy 1 -> 0 anyways.
3. Use "copy bitmap 1,0" befor the sync, not after.

Here's my edit of your code, I marked all the spots I edited with "REM [edit]".


Good job and it works!

This is a memblock check on a single large image, the next step is to do the same thing here but on tile images.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 00:59 Edited at: 5th May 2009 01:01
ok that would explain why the break worked, cuz going into that also trips a sync, right?

also wat u mean by tile checking?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th May 2009 15:25
Yes the same method is still used but you're checking tile images.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 15:46
im confused, why would u check the tile images to check collision?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th May 2009 17:23
Checking the tile directly instead of creating an image for detection uses much less memory. The map size is not just one screen worth of data, it spans 100 tiles across and 100 tiles deep.

It will be easier for you to work this out if the map maker would just get done already.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 17:34
im still not understanding, ur saying im going to make a memblock of the image of a map tile?

why would that help bcuz the image doesnt have the red collision boundaries, or am i missing something?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th May 2009 19:48
There will be collision tiles for this purpose. You make membock from those tiles instead as it only contains red/black colors.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 21:37 Edited at: 5th May 2009 21:39
im still cofused, here was my plan

we paste the proper tile image on the proper spot, starting with the lowest tile to the ground (basic ground features such as sand)

if something exists on a collision layer then we paste an image of that tiles collision box to an off screen bmp at the proper coordinates (just as i did)

now heres the part i havent implemented into mine yet, instead of making an image of the whole bmp (800*600 or watevr res were using) we just use get image like this, if playerx/y are the coordinates for the CENTER of the player then

get image image#, playerx-(1/2*playerwidth)-movevalue, playery-(1/2*playerheight)-movevalue, playerx+(1/2*playerwidth)+movevalue, playery+(1/2*playerheight)+movevalue

this image will be taken from our collision bmp

if this image is say 70*70 (64*64 player size and movevalue of 3) then the points 0,35; 35,0; 69,35; 35,69 would be used for checking if a movement will cause collision

this is the minimum image size that will work, thereby keeping speed at max and making things simple

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 5th May 2009 21:46
The thing is, the character does not move around on the screen. He stays smacked at the center of the screen, everything else will scroll by.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 22:01 Edited at: 5th May 2009 22:08
ok, no prob, we just need to adjust it so that the player doesnt move based on the change of the playerx/y, heres how i say it should work:

we have the entire map were on pressed onto an offscreen bmp, one that isnt nessesarily (sp?) the same size as the screen

the playerx/y are manipulated in the same fashion as before, but the player isnt pasted at that location

instead we manipulate the location on the bmp from which we take the map that will be seen on screen

if playerx/y start at 0 then all we would have to do is go

copy bitmap (map bitmap),playerx,playery,playerx+screen width,playery+screen height,0,0,0,screen width,screen height

and bam, it works, obviously well need stops for the edges but this is basically how the map scrolling will work

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 5th May 2009 22:37
Quote: "The thing is, the character does not move around on the screen. He stays smacked at the center of the screen, everything else will scroll by. "


Not necessarily true. The player will move on screen IF the camera can no longer pan in that direction.

I think smartguy's method should work fine. I like the idea of not even having to scan the entire screen.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2009 22:44
whoa, i had a good idea, howd i do that?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 02:04
One thing you do not want to do is to use the get image statement repeatedly, it'll require some kind of Sync befor memblock can use the image, that is no better than using a point for collision on a different bitmap.

loading a bitmap the size of the whole map 100x100x32 is alot of memory to use up. Hince the reason why we are using tiles to begin with.

Tiles are more complecated to handle but we use it for a reason, to save memory and space. If you go and use a large bitmap you are only defeating it's purpose.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 03:26
how else do u plan to get the map to the screen?

the way i see it we have 3 options:

1)assemble the whole map on an off screen bmp (my idea)

2)assemble it on either a bmp or the screen and get an image of it

3)assemble the map every loop

4)assemble the map on the screen at the first run, then use a sprite instead of paste image to make the character, then we wouldnt need to cls to remove the player image and the map would stay on screen permanently

1 and 2 are no different in terms of memory, 3 would be slow, so i say either 1 or 4

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 03:46 Edited at: 6th May 2009 03:54
Are we talking about displaying the map or about the collision detection?


-Collision detection on tiles-

First locate the tile to be checked. it's the tile the character WILL be standing at if he had moved the direction that is inputed.

Next check the pixel of the Collision Tile.

Will be somthing like:



I dont like talking theories, I alway run tests and make a working example befor I start talking about that method.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 04:15
ok i misheard u wen u were talkin about loading a full size bmp being a waste of space, i thot u were talking about the map bmp

i get u, ya this is bascially the route i was going with, xcept since movement is pixel based not tile based then i wouldnt even concern myself with tiles

wat im not getting is above u said that bmps are a waste of space, but how else are we going to show our collision boundaries?

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 04:44
There is a collision tileset, and when the objects are loaded, so will the collision tiles. They are loaded at the same index on the Map() array but just uses different layers.

Until the Map Maker is complete the collision testing have to be on halt. As there are no maps to test on >.>

What I mean about the bitmap using too much memory is just as it is. When you create a bitmap of any size, take 640x480 for example. That is 640x480x32 or 16 if you're using that bit depth, of memory you're using up. at 32 bit it's about 3~4mb of memory required to for this.

So when you create a bitmap that will fit the whole map, which is 3200x3200x32, it will require about 117mb of memory.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 04:59 Edited at: 6th May 2009 05:02
wrong, first off how r u getting the 3200*3200?
i dont recall being in the discussion of how big the entire map will be

even if it was that size though, then the math would go like this:

3200 * 3200 * 32 bits (NOT BYTES!!)
3200 * 3200 * 4 bytes
40960000 bytes for the whole map
40960000 / 1024 (conversion for bytes to kb) = 40000 kb
40000 / 1024 (conversion for kb to mb) = just over 39 mb, not much

plus that will only be in use DURING the program, its not like that will be saved into the hard drive

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 05:26
The 3200x3200 is from having 100x100 tiles each tile being 32x32.

Yes my mistake, you are correct about the size.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 05:33
ok, but not all the maps are going to be the same size, we have to adapt the scrolling to different sizes, we could have a 1600*6400 cave, we could have a 4800*3200 village, the possibilities are endless so its pointless to say the maps are going to be that size

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Libervurto
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Posted: 6th May 2009 05:40
@Smartguy
I've got some scrollbar code we can use, I'll upload tomorrow.

@BN2
Got any jobs for me? I have the whole day off tomorrow.

OBese87 - bringing you the world of today, tomorrow.
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 05:48
100x100 is just the current max setting right now, it can easily be set to 1000x1000 or what not. This largly depends on what method Bn2 chooses to save the map.

If I'm not mistaken currently our map saving method is the dba save array, if that's the case all maps will most likely have to be the exact size.

The thing about bitmap is, why use up 39mb to do the collision check when the same thing can be done with less than 3kb?
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 6th May 2009 08:27
@Obese
Yes, actually. I have been burdened down lately with midterms and homework and such, so I haven't been able to get to this. The mapmaker needs to be almost completely remade. If you can get started on that, I will jump in as I have free time and we can work together to finish that. Mainly, if a versatile interface can be made, we can work on the map stuff later. So priority would be get the User interface working (or started) and as the map specifications are made, we can finish it up.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 15:40
@obese
scrollbar code???

wat r u talking about, i mean we have to adapt how we move the player, basically it will work like this:

in a large room larger than the screen, the player is stuck in the middle and the map moves below him

if we get to where say the player is moving north and whats on the screen is as far north as the map can scroll then the map gets frozen and the player moves

sometimes we'll have a combination of those, say a dungeon is 1 screen wide and 3 screens long, then the PLAYER will move left and right, but the MAP will be scrolled up/down, until we reach the north end

im not talking about any scrollbar, not sure where i lost u

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 6th May 2009 17:13
It is because they are pretty much the same thing.
Libervurto
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Posted: 6th May 2009 17:48
@Smartguy
my scrollbar code isn't just the bar it also displays the window and acts differently depending on whether the window is full or not and whether you are viewing the last line. It is for text but I'm sure it would be quick and painless to display a map with it.

@BN2
I've started on a general GUI for the map maker.
Made some windows that can be dragged around and their order changed. I wondered whether we'd need windows, so I'm uploading the code for you to see what I've done so far and suggest what I should focus on.

I've changed the extension to .jpg in order to fool my ps3, it will only upload vids and pics. Hmm it didnt work I'll see if I can fiddle with it and get around it.

OBese87 - bringing you the world of today, tomorrow.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th May 2009 17:51
@obese
sorry i kinda blew up at you, ya that should work for this

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 7th May 2009 18:43
Why don't we all make a map maker then pull our ideas together after, at least we'll all have something to stay active with and there'll be more progress.
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 7th May 2009 20:24
We could do that, or we could all work together on a map maker as a team.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on which to do?

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Libervurto
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Posted: 8th May 2009 00:28
It's quite a big task, I'd rather we make it as a team.
To do that though we will need clear instructions of what is required and how our sections will fit together. Me especially as I am doing the GUI.

OBese87 - bringing you the world of today, tomorrow.
Latch
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Posted: 8th May 2009 02:34
If I were to structure the duties it would be something like this:

The map editor would function like this:
A series of generic tile sets can be loaded into memory. Each generic tile set can hold 200 32x32 images. Each generic tile set can be themed. At this time, it doesn't seem that the game play mechanics have been worked out so the scope of this doc is in creating the editor to build and display a level map.

From the generic tile sets, pictures are chosen and placed on a master level tile set. This is the set that will be saved with the map for the game level. If the master tile set is big enough, it could be the tileset for the whole game instead of just a single level.

The map is built using the master tileset. The actual tile number/position from the master tileset determines the type of tile and can therefore influence actions in the game. The map will be an array or some other means of stored reference of the tile picture, layer(s), and positions. The map should also contain any necessary references to other maps/levels.

Upon exit of the map editor, the generic tilesets are removed from memory.


Ashingda - you seem to be the picture guy. You would be in charge of designing the pictures for the tiles. You would also be responsible for creating a paint type editor so that individual tiles can be edited. This should include a zoom function so that the pixels can be worked on in detail. The size of each tileset has to be consistant and you have to give these dimensions to Obese.

Obese - you are the GUI function maker guy. You have to use Ashingda's tile sets and figure out a way to click on an individual tile and move it onto the master tile set. You also have to be able to capture the reference of the tile position from the master tile set. You don't have to worry about the map array structure and such; your function for the master level tile set just has to make the tile information available to BN2. You are also in charge of the interface navigation - how to get from one point in the GUI to the other - including menus, page flipping of tile sets, error handling. You are working on the mechanics of the gui. Obese, you don't need Ashingda's tilesets to move forward. If you design your stuff based on the correct sizes and positions, you should be able to test with any pictures you want. You may even want to create test colored grids so you can finish your part without waiting on anyone.

SmartGuy - You are in charge of interface design - that means the look. You have to be sure everything is consistant so you'll be working closely with Obese. This bleeds over into the overall game. Every way that the user interacts with the game, from the menus, to messages, to the look of the pointer, to the scroll bars, all have to be themed consistantly. You may also have to work with Ashingda on some design concepts. You kinda have to be up on where everyone is in terms of their progress though you can continue to build your themes. That may even include little blips and bleeps of sound for menu selection or item clicking. Some subtle sounds can really bring an interface to life. The tricky part will be the method of incorporating your designs with the functionality the others are creating.

BN2 - You are the map guy. You have to figure out how to use the references to the images that OBese is designing for the master tileset creation. That includes storing those references for the map, and drawing the map as it is edited. You also have to design the saving and loading of everything - from Ashingda's tile sets, to the master tile set, to the map level information. You have to keep in mind how you will load this information into the game ultimately. You are also responsible for managing the whole project - so you've got your work cut out for you! Your team should be creating things in modules that are almost self contained. The modules should be testable without destroying or relying too much on other code with minor modification.

razerx - perhaps you could pause on the battle system as necessary and be the tester. For any part of the interface, try and figure out what seems clunky or just plain doesn't work. See if it seems difficult to use or if it is intuitive. Is the interface responsive? Every module that gets done, try and test it for bugs. How do things look? Is the overall functioning consistant? Does it look themed or does does it look pieced together from other things? Perhaps work with BN2 also on helping to make sure that everyone is coding with a similar style. That will help when it comes to debugging.

Anyway, that's my first thought suggestions for team responsibilities on the map editor.

Enjoy your day.
DB newbie
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Posted: 8th May 2009 05:26
a bunch of tiles i found from an old post here...


http://pousse.rapiere.free.fr/tome/index.htm


Come see the WIP!

That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 8th May 2009 05:39
cool site, tnx

also i know this is kinda off topic but what IMs do u have?

this might be quicker if we have to communicate closer to other members

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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th May 2009 15:09
good suggestions Latch. I hadn't thought about how much I could do without needing other people's code.
I like the tester job, I think that would really help us stay on track and make sure everything works as it should.

@Ashingda
Do you want to make a tile editor as Latch suggested?
It could be opened in the map editor in one of my windows.

Update on GUI Progress
I've written it to be really versatile, it's pretty much all variables.
= finished, = building, = planning.
Window drawing function.
Draw active window on top, set active window by clicking it
Move window by dragging title bar.
Minimise, scale and close window buttons
Menu for opening new windows, window types: map, tile editor, tileset display.

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 8th May 2009 16:27 Edited at: 8th May 2009 16:27
@Obese
I've already made one, do you want to rip the codes off of that yourself or have me do it?
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 8th May 2009 20:32
Thanks latch! Great suggestions.

@smartguy
Good idea for the instant messenger thing, might be worth it schedule some kind of weekly meeting on instant messenger so that we can discuss in real time where we are and where to go from there (forums get kinda irritating to work around sometimes)

As for me, I use AIM, sn is herocreator

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"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 8th May 2009 21:28
i used to use xfire, its free and was pretty good, so my vote goes to we all get that and KEEP YOUR SAME USERNAME AS ON THIS SITE, that way we can recognize each other

also i was kinda hoping for quicker than weekly during the summer (its a week away for me) since ill have pretty much 24/7 access to programming and hopefully ill get something done

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Libervurto
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Posted: 9th May 2009 01:40
That's gonna be kind of difficult for me as my pc isn't online.
Also aren't we all in different time zones? When could we actually be on at the same time?

@Ashingda
Cool, could you upload the dba file please.

OBese87 - bringing you the world of today, tomorrow.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 9th May 2009 01:56
not sure if im breakin ne rules by askin this but wat time zones is everyone in?

im central U.S.

but summer is comin up and i believe most of us r students so our time will free up soon and it may not make a difference

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 9th May 2009 12:36
pacific us here. yeah, i realize timezones will probably be a problem, but wanted to throw out the idea

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Ashingda 27
17
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Joined: 15th Feb 2008
Location:
Posted: 9th May 2009 16:13
Central US here also.

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