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Geek Culture / Free HTML Compilers?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:06
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Hey all,

About a month ago a friend of mine suggested that I learn HTML, as web development is a pretty good career (at least in Wisconsin, USA) right now.

I've decided to take his word and pursue learning HTML, but I can't find any free compilers that look promising.

Do HTML compilers require the .NET framework? If they do, I'm out of luck as I've tried to install the .NET framework a few times before, all to no avail. Stupid computer...

Anyway, does anyone know of a good, free HTML compiler?

Thanks in advance!


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Rudolpho
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:19
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Eh... html compiler?
It is parsed straight off by any browser; just save it as "filename.html" and open it in your browser

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:28
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Quote: "It is parsed straight off by any browser; just save it as "filename.html" and open it in your browser"



Hmm. Maybe that's why my Google search didn't really show any results...

Thanks!


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:31
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Do you mean a webpage editor, such as dreamweaver? For those, I don't know any free ones that are any good, but you can always just use notepad and save it as a .html, as previously stated. you can use pretty much any text editor.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:35
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Compiler???

I think you'd better start here:




http://www.photonstorm.com
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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:48
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I recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/XHTML-Sixth-Visual-Quickstart-Guide/dp/0321430840/r

It's really in-depth and easy to understand. You'll find it stays by your desk during any HTML project

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HowDo
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:50 Edited at: 6th Apr 2009 21:37
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try coffeecup.

http://www.coffeecup.com/html-editor/

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JoelJ
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 19:53
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Don't use any WYSIWYG editors (What you see is what you get... aka Drag-and-drop editors). Just learn to script it with the codez.

Use notepad++ if you're in Windows. it's free and has all the features you would need.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 21:19
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Quote: "Do you mean a webpage editor, such as dreamweaver?"


Not exactly, although I will probably use that later on (or something cheaper). I'm really not so concerned with visual style right now, although I realize I'll need to learn what tools are necessary in creating websites if I want to do this as a career (it sounds more and more appealing every minute!).

Quote: "Don't use any WYSIWYG editors (What you see is what you get... aka Drag-and-drop editors). Just learn to script it with the codez"


I hate drag-and-drop software! It's one of the things I don't like about Webs.com (where I'm currently hosting my site). You have to pick a pre-made template, although if you know CSS you can make your own. I am a coder, 100%. I can understand code better than I can drag-and-drop, somehow it's just easier for me. So hopefully I'll be able to pick up HTML, XHTML, and CSS pretty easily. I know I'll also need to learn JAVA at one point as well.

But yeah, I guess I should have not posted about this until after I had some coffee. xD Thanks for bearing with me though, guys.

Jerico: Thanks for posting the link to that book! I'm definitely going to look into it...perhaps my library can get it through inter-library loan.

Thanks all! I promise I won't be so ignorant next time when it comes to compilers. Thanks for putting up with me!


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Dragon Knight
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 21:26
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As JoelJ, there is nothing more efficient than a good programmer coding a website using notepad. Most drag and drop editors seem to add huge waves of un-necessary code to get this tiny little amount of difference that no one notices.

I however don't recommend books etc.. just get some free online tutorials. go through them step by step eventually learning java aswell so u can incorporate it into your website along with PHP and MySql which is where the real money lies.

The most well paid job around here is database management for the goverment and you earn ALLOT...


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Tom J
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 21:29
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As a nitpick, java and javascipt do different things. Javascript is the one for webistes, java is an object oriented language for standalone apps.
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MIDN90
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 21:56
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Quote: "Not exactly, although I will probably use that later on (or something cheaper). I'm really not so concerned with visual style right now, although I realize I'll need to learn what tools are necessary in creating websites if I want to do this as a career (it sounds more and more appealing every minute!).
"


I got Adobe Dreamweaver, Adobe Flash, and one more thing not coming to mind, all for around $100-$300, can't remember, for the student license version. That's pocket change compared to the full thing...
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 22:04 Edited at: 6th Apr 2009 22:07
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Quote: "there is nothing more efficient than a good programmer coding a website using notepad. "


There is - a good programmer coding* a website using a decent editor that saves time when doing the many many mundane tasks that XHTML/CSS requires.

Dreamweaver in code edit mode has a beautiful editor available to you, as does TextMate, e, emacs, Editpad Pro; heck take your pick of any of them! Nearly all will seriously increase the time it takes you to craft a decent site. Not because they'll WYSIWYG it for you, but because they'll do things Notepad can't dream of like auto-completing, context sensitive parameters, closing nested sodding tags, completing LIs, god damnit - the list is endless.

I hire a lot of freelancers for xhtml/css where I work, and I'd never hire someone who's anal enough to do all their work in Notepad alone, because I know for a fact they won't get it done fast enough for me. (Oh and I'd never hire anyone who uses a WYSIWYG package either! just for clarification). I hire sensible developers who understand html/css inside out, and can use a decent editor to get it done fast

// end of pet peeve

Cheers,

Rich
* HTML is not coding


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JoelJ
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 22:10
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Quote: "As a nitpick, java and javascipt do different things. Javascript is the one for webistes, java is an object oriented language for standalone apps. "

Yeah, I was going to say...

Quote: "step eventually learning java aswell so u can incorporate it into your website along with PHP and MySql which is where the real money lies. "


Unless you're talking about Java Applets (which I doubt...) Javascript with PHP and mysql is what you mean. Which is COMPLETELY different. Javascript was very poorly named. I think it was more of a fad thing to name it off of Java than it was anything else. However, Java can be used for serverside code rather than PHP. (JSP, is the extension for Java sites).

So, to rephrase that last quote, I would learn XHTML, then Javascript, then something server side (ASP.net, PHP, Ruby on Rails, or JSP - I would recommend ASP.net or Rails), and then learn to use a database of one kind or another, (mysql, DB2, or MS SQL to name a few)


Goodluck!

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Mr Z
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 22:19 Edited at: 6th Apr 2009 22:20
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Quote: "Unless you're talking about Java Applets (which I doubt...)"


There also exist Servlets and JSP. Not really the same thing as an Applet, though.

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mamaji4
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 22:33
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Like the others said.
WYSIWYG is essential particularly for the visual look and feel of the page and to get it done fast, what with project deadlines getting shorter every day, which would be extremely tiresome and error prone if one were to code with Notepad.
However, in order to co-relate the HTML, etc. that the WYSIWYG editor generated you need to know which part of the HTML generates which part of the page and how to further tweak it and make fine adjustments to the final webpage. This you can do only if you have knowledge of HTML, CSS, etc. itself.
Finally, its worthwile to take a look at AJAX which is the flavour of the day. Web apps are here to stay and should be a part of your hard skills as a web developer.
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Jeku
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 22:49
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Quote: "a good programmer coding* a website using a decent editor that saves time when doing the many many mundane tasks that XHTML/CSS requires."


I really didn't want to go into my usual rant about Notepad, so thanks for saying it first Notepad is not for serious HTML editing---- it doesn't support syntax hiliting or even basic indenting. For my money nothing beats UltraEdit for HTML, PHP, JavaScript, and even ActionScript. Dreamweaver is also a good code editor, and it will save you time in the long run.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 6th Apr 2009 23:44
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Quote: "Notepad is not for serious HTML editing---- it doesn't support syntax hiliting or even basic indenting"


Agreed. I'm only using it to learn the basics of HTML right now, rather than spend money on pro software. I really hate that it doesn't do syntax highlighting, but it's Notepad, so...

Quote: "* HTML is not coding"


Yeah, I guess I kind of knew that. lol

Quote: "Javascript is the one for webistes, java is an object oriented language for standalone apps. "


Yeah, I said the wrong thing, I really did mean Javascript. I'm not sure why I capitalized all characters of Java either. I guess I was typing too fast to really think things through.


Quote: "to rephrase that last quote, I would learn XHTML, then Javascript, then something server side (ASP.net, PHP, Ruby on Rails, or JSP - I would recommend ASP.net or Rails), and then learn to use a database of one kind or another, (mysql, DB2, or MS SQL to name a few)"


Thanks for the tips, JoelJ, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

Thanks for your tips everyone!!


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Mr Z
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 00:01 Edited at: 7th Apr 2009 00:03
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Quote: "
Agreed. I'm only using it to learn the basics of HTML right now, rather than spend money on pro software. I really hate that it doesn't do syntax highlighting, but it's Notepad, so..."


Notepad++ . You can configure it to have syntax highlighting for HTML rather easy (is under the "Language" menu, just select HTML there and you got it).
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm

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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 00:18
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Notepad++ also gets my vote. It's free, supports syntax highlighting for any language you need, and couldn't be easier to use. I use it on a daily basis for all my web work and rarely use a visual editor unless I'm designing a table, in which case it's only because after 10 years I still can't remember which comes first TD or TR.

[url="http://dbcc.zimnox.com"][/url]
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 00:26
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I like just notepad. I tried notepad ++ but honestly all the highlighting and stuff distracted me from what I was doing

I guess my attention span is just short.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 01:43
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Notepad++ sounds kind of difficult to install. I think I'll just stick with regular Notepad for now and I'll figure out how to install NP++ some other day.

Thanks for everything fellas, I'm getting pretty excited for this.


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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 06:03
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Quote: "Notepad++ sounds kind of difficult to install."


Are you serious? Doesn't it just involve double-clicking the installer or unzipping the zip file?

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 06:07
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Jeku, that's incredibly difficult. I'm not sure I can manage something like that. Can you provide a screenshot?


Oh, and Yodaman Jer, I use NP++ whenever I code in HTML or more recently, PHP. It's incredibly helpful, but I might go and check out some of the other suggestions that these guys are saying. I've found that they help out quite a bit.
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 06:12
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@Yodaman - You don't actually have to replace Notepad with it.

Just go here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95717&package_id=102072&release_id=671651

Click to download npp.5.3.1.Installer.exe and run it.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 20:35
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Ah, okay. I guess I should have just dug around on that site a little bit more. Thanks!

I usually CAN follow directions pretty well, I have no idea what was wrong with me yesterday. Seriously.


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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 20:51
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[Sorry for double-posting]

Whoa!! NP++ is awesome! Not only does it 'code' in HTML, but you can choose which language to program in! So if I wanted to program in C#, I could do it! I'd need to find a program that could run it though, but I could at least code in NP++.

Thanks everyone! I am now one step closer to learning all the languages I want to.


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Lukas W
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 21:11
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IIRC you also have the ability to write custom language files. In other words you can even code DBPro code in Notepad++, although you will not have access to the compiler or any F1 shortcuts.

Anyway, when I first started with html I used notepad. But after I went over to PHP I had to find one that supported syntax highlighting, so Notepad++ was the essential choice.

Quote: "unless I'm designing a table, in which case it's only because after 10 years I still can't remember which comes first TD or TR."

Hahaha. A simple tip: You need a table row (TR) in order to add table data (TD).

I've tried switching over to DIVs but I just can't seem to understand how they are working, although they should in theory be able to act the same way as a table.
So after two years I still use tables

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 21:19 Edited at: 7th Apr 2009 21:20
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Okay guys, I have another question that I hope you can answer.

What does it take to get a career in web development? Do I need to take an I.T. course at college? I can understand HTML pretty well already, but I'm still going to study it for a while before I move on to another 'web language' (which I think will be XHTML, then Javascript and so on, as JoelJ suggested).

The more I think about this, the more appealing it sounds. Especially since I can probably combine it with another thing I'd like to do in later life (which is becoming a Youth Pastor), probably in at least 10 years or so.

Anyway, I am really liking Notepad++.


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Dragon Knight
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 21:50 Edited at: 7th Apr 2009 22:05
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Just to clarify yes i did mean java-script it was short-hand for me and i thought people in general would have understood what was meant, i didn't realize people would go ODD from that alone xD

i use the following to ensure my sites are up to scratch:
http://validator.w3.org/ <-- for xhtml standard
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ <-- for .css checking

Anyway my friend Diurmaid is a professional website developer from N.Ireland all he did was i believe built up an impressive portfolio of websites, went around business's all across the lands and bang, with word of mouth along with advertisements, he's making enough money to get along with life.

I will always love my notepad, as when i went to first code in c++ all i had was a Borland command line compiler, along with my trusty notepad!


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Gunn3r
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 02:34
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Quote: "which is becoming a Youth Pastor"

Hey! I was thinking about doing something very similar...
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MIDN90
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 02:44
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Quote: "What does it take to get a career in web development? Do I need to take an I.T. course at college?"


Major in Computer Information Systems... You'll take webpage design classes...

I WOULD KNOW!!!!!
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 02:53
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Quote: "Quote: "What does it take to get a career in web development? Do I need to take an I.T. course at college?"

Major in Computer Information Systems... You'll take webpage design classes..."


Or... Perhaps a strong Web Dev Portfolio and good people skills?

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 03:25
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Quote: "Major in Computer Information Systems... You'll take webpage design classes..."


I majored in that and didn't take webpage design courses. I recommend just going to a college or Uni and taking some of their web courses. They're probably decently priced.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 03:41
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Quote: "I majored in that and didn't take webpage design courses. I recommend just going to a college or Uni and taking some of their web courses. They're probably decently priced."


I'll bet that my local college offers classes that are decently priced. I'll look into them, even though I won't start until late next year. Can't be too prepared!!


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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 05:32
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There's a lot of money to be made in Joomla Components. Some of them ranging from 100 buck a year subscriptions or more. If I wanted some quick money in web programming, that's what I'd do.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 22:45
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Quote: "There's a lot of money to be made in Joomla Components. Some of them ranging from 100 buck a year subscriptions or more. If I wanted some quick money in web programming, that's what I'd do."


What exactly are Joomla Components? I'll look them up, they sound interesting. Anyway, I agree with you Jerico, that idea does sound really good for web programming.

I think I am really getting into this...*opens NP++*


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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 23:15 Edited at: 8th Apr 2009 23:15
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I'd say Joomla components are out of your league for the time being. Just focus on HTML for now and try to master it.

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Robert F
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 23:50
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Why not learn CSS right after you learn HTML, thats what I did...


shes a brick HOUSE!
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 00:00
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Quote: "Why not learn CSS right after you learn HTML, thats what I did..."


That is what I plan on doing, actually. And then probably Javascript will be the next thing I learn.


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 00:30
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Quote: "Why not learn CSS right after you learn HTML, thats what I did..."


Learn them at the same time. HTML skills are useless these days without a solid grounding in CSS, and there is a LOT to learn about CSS if you want to do it well!


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AlexI
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 01:28
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Learn php its the best


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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 05:08
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Quote: "HTML skills are useless these days without a solid grounding in CSS"


Yeah, I've noticed that. Thanks for your help and tips everyone!!


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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 06:18
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Quote: "I'd say Joomla components are out of your league for the time being. Just focus on HTML for now and try to master it."


Joomla is a PHP based CMS, and components for it are like plugins. Basically you can sell plugins to people and make money. It's a great way to learn PHP programming and HTML/CSS, because the design of plugins is fairly strict in terms of layout and design.

But uh, yeah, you should learn the basics first, but don't discount a CMS as being too difficult. It's a good way to get into web programming.

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