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Geek Culture / Infinity + 1 = Infinity?

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mamaji4
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 17:23
Quote: " (ie that each element of N is hit by only one element of S)
"


I had no idea that the mapping of one elment of a set to another was known as a 'hit'
There is always something new you learn in math terminology everyday.
I think 'clearly' is acceptable in math terminology. Now 'hit' is a terminology you would see in Smackdown V/s Raw
mamaji4
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 17:54 Edited at: 15th Apr 2009 20:48
Quote: "A set S is said to be countable if there exists a bijection from S to the set of natural numbers N
Let S = N2 and N = N1
Clearly, S here has a cardinality that is greater than N and there exists no bijection from S to N
Therefore the set of natural numbers N2 is uncountable if we assume that N1 is the set of natural numbers
But the set of natural numbers N2 is supposed to be countable and infinite."


And yeah. There are certain theorems which are difficult to disprove.

But I'm the never-say-die type.
Let the set of natural numbers be N1 = {1,2,3...}
Assume that for any set S we can find a function f1 from S to N1 such that it is a bijection.
Now let the set of natural numbers be N2 = {0,1,2,3...}
It would be necessary to find another function f2 from S to N2 such that it is a bijection.
If you cannot find such a function, the set S is uncountable.

Clearly, the concept of countability is related to the definition of the set of natural numbers.
You would therefore have to prove for any set S, that there is a bijection not only from S to N1, but from S to N2, in order to show that S is countable.
If any sets have been shown to be countable using N1 as the set of natural numbers, you would now have to show that those same sets are countable w.r.t. N2, and vice versa.
If there exists even one set S that is countable w.r.t. N1 but not countable w.r.t. N2 Cantor's theorem is in jeopardy.

Unless you can arrive at a general consensus on which of N1 or N2 is the set of natural numbers. But clearly, this is not clear.

And if tomorrow a third set of natural numbers was declared as universally accepted by mathematicians, all sets Si which were shown to be countable/uncountable would be in jeopardy.

That is how solid Cantor's theorem on countability is.
djmaster
User Banned
Posted: 15th Apr 2009 21:34
ill tell you the correct answer, infinity+1=brain damage and a very long headache

A.K.A. chargerbandit
mamaji4
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 22:00
Quote: "ill tell you the correct answer, infinity+1=brain damage and a very long headache"


That is most probably the only correct answer.
And it delineates a very important point. At the end of the day, when you leave the realm of 2+2 and enter the realm of infinity which is beyond our true comprehension, mathematicians are just a bunch of kids groping around in the dark.
Robert F
User Banned
Posted: 16th Apr 2009 06:14 Edited at: 16th Apr 2009 06:15
Quote: "ill tell you the correct answer, infinity+1=brain damage and a very long headache"


lol

Wow, I didnt know this topic would get this big. But I think its solved now.

Infinity + 1 = Infinity + 1

Or

It cannot be done because infinity is just a concept and not a real number.


shes a brick HOUSE!
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 16th Apr 2009 06:40
being in geometry, i can't really speak on this topic. As far as im concerned concepts like infinity and divide by zero (kinda) are along the same line as i. sqrt(-1) can be used in equations, but it's nature can't really be described.

but mamaji4, you are definitely one of the most mathematically well-versed people i've met. I hope to know as much as you one day
mamaji4
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Posted: 16th Apr 2009 12:31
@Neuro Fuzzy
Thank you for the kind compliment.
But in all honesty I have'nt even touched the tip of the ice-berg that is pure mathematics.
Scraggle
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Joined: 10th Jul 2003
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Posted: 16th Apr 2009 21:36
Quote: "But I think its solved now.

Infinity + 1 = Infinity + 1"


I disagree!

Consider a computer game. You enter the cheat to give you infinite lives. When your player dies you don't have any less lives available to you, you still have infinite lives.
Equally, if you get an extra life bonus, you don't have any more lives available, you still have infinite lives.

Simple really.



Robert F
User Banned
Posted: 16th Apr 2009 21:49
Quote: "I disagree!

Consider a computer game. You enter the cheat to give you infinite lives. When your player dies you don't have any less lives available to you, you still have infinite lives.
Equally, if you get an extra life bonus, you don't have any more lives available, you still have infinite lives.

Simple really."


No, that's just simply not taking any lives away at all.


shes a brick HOUSE!

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