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Program Announcements / [STICKY] Newton Game Dynamics WRAPPER v1.53

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Grandma
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 18:26 Edited at: 10th Aug 2009 18:27
Quote: "Too bad less people are interested in Newton wrapper which i believe better than any other solutions for DBPro."

Oh I think there are more people like me here, lurking, seeing how people do with the update before self committing their project to the update. I've long been waiting for an update to newton but my project has grown to such a size that changing one of its foundations could produce bugs or incompabilities of an unimaginable scale.

However I tried it today and it's looking very good, the only problem I've seen yet is that my elevators seem think there's a basement sometimes. But that could be a coding problem on my part that I haven't noticed before.

I also read that beta version of newton 2.0 is out. Any plans to update the wrapper once again in the future? It probably hurt, reading that. Sorry, we're all grateful of your work.

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tiresius
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 18:50 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 05:41
Quote: "I've long been waiting for an update to newton but my project has grown to such a size that changing one of its foundations could produce bugs or incompabilities of an unimaginable scale."

I am the same way (in both attitude and large project). I tried to list all the things I found different between 1.32b->1.53 so hopefully it will make things easier for people like us.

Quote: "I also read that beta version of newton 2.0 is out. Any plans to update the wrapper once again in the future?"

I'm going to say two things to this:
First off, as far as Julio (maker of Newton) is concerned, the 1.53 version of Newton is DEAD. Newton 1.53 is over 3 years old. I didn't advertise this fact because it is a little bit of a downer, but if you submit a bug or even mention that version on their forums they will tell you to stop playing around with old decrepid code and go to 2.0. It is frustrating (for me at least) that if we do find a bug inside Newton.dll for 1.53 we better find a workaround of some kind or we are out of luck. :/ This is just how it is and we have to accept it.
That being said, an old forum-goer here who left TGC/DBPro a few years ago to play with Newton in C++ is starting up a Newton 2.0 wrapper from scratch. I am assisting him as best I can but he's in charge of it, as I am no C++ guru by any means. It probably won't be ready to distribute for a long while as it is in its infancy and I wouldn't ask here for news on it. And from the direction both Newton 2.0 and the new Wrapper itself is taking, it may be difficult to port large projects over. But it's also too early to say that's a definite.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Grandma
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 19:46 Edited at: 10th Aug 2009 19:47
Ah I was just inquiring, it wasn't important (for me anyhow) as 1.53 does the job nicely, and is certainly a great update from 1.32.

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tiresius
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 20:40 Edited at: 10th Aug 2009 20:40
My last post was a little doomsday in tone. Just to clarify I'm not saying 1.53 is riddled with bugs. Many times I've blamed Newton.dll for bugs but it was actually problems with the wrapper itself. Newton is solid, even at 1.53 and I hope people take time to learn it and make some cool games with it.

Grandma what kind of game are you making with Newton (if you don't mind sharing)? Mine is a marble platformer I'm hoping to put out a demo this winter. Without Newton it would not be possible.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Grandma
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 21:21
Quote: "Grandma what kind of game are you making with Newton (if you don't mind sharing)?"

I do mind, but I feel I owe you. It's an (O)FPSRPG. Think deus ex or system shock 2. It's been in the works since before I joined the forum, so almost as old as Pirates of port royale. I need a stable/efficient physics library as some gameplay takes place in different G's and sometimes, no G. It shall also have some puzzles involving physics. Newton seemed like the obvious choice.

Here's something from the menu I posted on the posting comp thread a while ago. WIP!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=1820766
I blatantly refuse to post any in-game shots until the graphics are the way I want them to be.

I'll keep an eye out for that demo.

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tiresius
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:12 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 00:20
Ha! The secrecy, I love it. Multiplayer physics is a world of its own and if you want to email me how you are accomplishing it I'd love to hear.
Since we're sharing... I have an old video of the marble game that can be found on youtube. Not much has changed except stuff under the hood, so I guess it is still accurate on looks. The graphics of my games will never be top notch. This shows an alpha of the first person camera, but most times I would expect the game to be in third person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn5oZHbQvwI
Levels are made with a 2D level editor.

[EDIT]
Hey all you Newton users, feel free to post a screenshot or link to something of your Newton project in this post. This doesn't have to turn into another WIP including several updates of your game. But something to help show how great Newton is can only help with the popularity of the wrapper.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Elite Gaming
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 20:48
I can't believe theres been an update to Newton Physics! I've been away in XNA land for so long and thought i'd pop-in to see what was happening with DarkBasic and saw this! I got in touch with Walaber last year about if he was planning any updates as i had a bug with my game running Newton on Vista and he said pretty much an update wasn't going to happen, so its great someone else has done it.

Gonna have to dig out the old code and try it out!
Elite Gaming
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 22:06 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 22:16
****EDIT****

Please ignore this post, just found out the reason for it! (Might want to update the documentation to state its not included or remove the function from the list


Just a quick one, i'm getting problems with the following command:

NDB_NewtonVehicleBalanceTires

When running my code, i get an error warning saying:

'Could not find function ?NDB_NewtonVehicleBalanceTires@@YAXHM@Z' in 109:NDB.dll

Any ideas if this is an easy fix? It's not showing up as a keyword in the editor either, and isn't in the compiler keywords ini file.

Cheers
Grandma
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 22:07 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 22:07
Quote: "Multiplayer physics is a world of its own and if you want to email me how you are accomplishing it I'd love to hear."

Me too, it's a real female dog. I'm not using a brilliant system at the moment so I'd like tips too.

Quote: "Hey all you Newton users, feel free to post a screenshot or link to something of your Newton project in this post. This doesn't have to turn into another WIP including several updates of your game. But something to help show how great Newton is can only help with the popularity of the wrapper."

I guess I'll spam since I'm currently building a compound collision object. Sometimes convex hulls and boxes just aren't enough. I like that they can be dynamic and not static like tree-collision objects.

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tiresius
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 23:47 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 23:52
Quote: "Might want to update the documentation to state its not included or remove the function from the list"

Yeah it's in the Readme that it is no longer needed, but now I notice it is still in the help file. I'll remove it and any other deprecated functions and update the archive.


Quote: "I'm currently building a compound collision object"

Cool looks like you made your own home-grown rigid body maker? Do you have an in-game level editor? The gui looks too nice to be just for a Dev to use. I have that on my wishlist of things to make but I don't think I'll be able to spend enough time to do it.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Grandma
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 00:55
Quote: "Cool looks like you made your own home-grown rigid body maker? Do you have an in-game level editor? The gui looks too nice to be just for a Dev to use."

Oh wow, thanks. No that's all me, the all-in-one editor for the game. As for in-game level editor? Not sure what you mean, but I can enter "texture mode" while playing. Though it's limited in the game as I can only use already-loaded textures.

Quote: "I have that on my wishlist of things to make but I don't think I'll be able to spend enough time to do it."

That was my exact thought before I just jumped at it. I spent 2, maybe 3 days making that particular sub-editor. I found that the hard part was actually gathering willpower to do it, not the coding part. An array here to store col-data, a saving/loading routine there, and finito! Of course, it's just a basic model viewer with some extra buttons and levers. Suddenly it doesn't seem so scary. Or at least it shouldn't. It's not like you'll ever regret making one. Oh darn, now my more complex objects behave more realistic and I can create really weird/interesting dynamic rigid bodies.

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CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 14th Aug 2009 09:53
You know, there is something funny with collision objects.

It may be caused by DBPro, 3d max 2010, panda exporter or newton i dont know.

When you export an object with limbs, box, sphere, cylinder..etc. and tree collisions do not offset the limb according to its pivot point (it used to do this in 1.32b) Only convex collision uses the real vertex coordinates thus offsets the collision mesh correctly.

No problems though, we can always use the offset matrix.

But, when i use a very complex object (i.e. a level object made of lots of limbs) i cant keep track of every limbs position.(Dbpro limb commands dont work either)

Anyways, can you check the tree collision command and see if there is anything funny with them?

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 14th Aug 2009 13:45 Edited at: 14th Aug 2009 13:46
Hey, how is the attached file for a character controller?
you think its decent?

Controls:
WASD movement
Shift +wasd running
SPACE jumping
ctrl+space jumping higher
C change camera 1st person - 3rd person
RETURN deletes the player object out of scene
F12 for debug

Character is 180cm tall and 80kgs
It climbs stairs without hassle with riser size of 15cm
it jumps over 80cm objects(Climbing over walls with one move)
It jumps over 300cm objects with power jump (you can test it in the second floor, ctrl+space)
it kicks 2kgs box with proportioned force, it cant kick heavy objects like 20-30kgs
it climbs ladders, but unfortunately i dont have it shown in this demo.

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

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tiresius
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Posted: 14th Aug 2009 17:59
Quote: "When you export an object with limbs, box, sphere, cylinder..etc. and tree collisions do not offset the limb according to its pivot point (it used to do this in 1.32b)"

Are you talking about Tree Collisions specifically? Nothing in the method of creating Tree Collisions has changed (by Limb flag or without), except fixing the Limb=0 missing bug.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
tiresius
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 07:53 Edited at: 15th Aug 2009 07:54
Quote: "Hey, how is the attached file for a character controller?
you think its decent?"

Hey man that's pretty cool. Since my player moves with a simple Omega force I've never dabbled in trying to make an upvector joint behave properly for a player. You should turn this into a full-fledged demo or tutorial for people to look at because I've heard several complaints about making a player controller for 1.x versions. But your demo is several steps closer to a solution.
Are you going to assign an animated character to it? I've seen that "sliding collision" (I have quotes because it isn't really sliding at all) in Newton doesn't maintain the rotation of the object. This is normal because if you rub against something of course you will turn towards it! So if you detach the rotation of the player with the upvector collision rotation you may get something no only functional but really good looking too. Then we won't hear any more complaints.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 16:32
Quote: "Are you talking about Tree Collisions specifically? Nothing in the method of creating Tree Collisions has changed (by Limb flag or without), except fixing the Limb=0 missing bug."


If you export an object as a whole object(with no limbs) everything works fine.
But if you export the object with limbs, then newton assumes each limbs pivot point(origin) is at 0,0,0 thus the collision meshs offset is wrong.

I tried it with max 2010 and latest panda, and above thing happens. But when i try it with max 8 and previous panda, it all works fine. So i assume its a panda exporter problem.

About the character controller, i am making a small fps level with dark ai involved as well, as soon as i complete it, ill put up a tutorial.

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 10:20
Is it possible to add a command for tree collision to use an offset matrix also?

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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 10:49 Edited at: 4th Sep 2009 10:53
Quote: "Is it possible to add a command for tree collision to use an offset matrix also?"

You could offset the level object/s before making the tree collision and then position it back. Won't that have the desired effect?

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Math89
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 11:31
Since I use to create the tree manually (because I don't trust the automatic command for a reason I forgot) I offset the values given by the memblock. I'm not sure it's extremely efficient, but I like to have the control.
CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 14:57
MAth89, can you please share your piece of code that picks individual faces of any object? Ive been looking for it so long time.

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Math89
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 17:27
I don't guarantee that this code works because I've slightly adapted it to be more general, and of course, I haven't tested it.

The first function creates an empty collision, the second one adds a static object (with an offset if needed) and the last one creates the body.
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 1st Oct 2009 07:05
Has anyone tried the rigid body designer and the LoadBOD command with 1.53? I can't get it to work. The bodies don't load with the LoadBOD command, and it seems like a few things are going on. When I print out the file name in the LoadBOD function (I print objectfile$) it comes out as just "p" which is the first letter of my object file, pistol.X. I try manually setting the file name to "pistol.X" in the function but then it just gives me the "Dark Basic Pro has encountered an error, searching for a solution..." and quits.

I also tried compiling and running the vehicle demo, which is the only demo that uses the rigid body loader, but I get this error:
Runtime Error 7008 - Object does not exist at line 104.
Object Number Not Found: 46


Does anyone else experience this??

QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2009 04:15
Nevermind, I'm just a complete idiot. I was calling loadBOD before I called the newton create command

tiresius
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 05:43
Hey Newton Folks!

I made a small update to the wrapper recently and added a few commands for custom Sphere Collision. This is supposed to fix a potential issue where spheres can get strange contact normals on the edge of planes, they don't go through the center of the sphere (something that should always happen for a sphere).

Probably only worthwhile if you are making a marble platform game like I am, but I figured might as well update the official version of the wrapper.

NDB_BodySetSphere
NDB_BodyGetSphere
NDB_NewtonMaterialSetSphereCollisionCallback


Archive listed in original post is updated. Enjoy!!

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Olby
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 21:19
tiresius, I just wanted you to thank you for your continued support of the Newton wrapper. This was the first physics engine I used in DBPro back in 2004/2005 and I still think it is the best of all physics engine wrappers currently available. I am planning on using it again in my project.

ACER Aspire 5920G: Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP1, DBPro 7.4 + PureGDK
blackway
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Posted: 11th Nov 2009 01:27
Hi Tiresius and Cucumber ! many thanks for this wrapper !
I have a newbie question but really I need help.
I'm playing with demo06 - vehicle example and I'm trying to increase the car maxspeed but I can't find how to do it. I changed the torque value to higher values but nothing change.
Maybe Cucumber can share with us a source code of good vehicle physics?
Thanks!
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 12th Nov 2009 17:16
tiresius,WoW thanks for all your hard work.I recently tried to work on the ODE Dll that Slayer93 upgraded.I wanted to add DBO Limbs,but your Dll has blown that out of the water.Going to use your Dll will save me a lot of work,Thanks again.tested all the demos with Dbpro 7.4 and the synergy editor,only had problems with the Demo04 crashes?If I figure out why I edit this post

Custom,intel,2.4GHz,1024mb,ATI X1500 256mb,

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MSon
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2009 15:39
how did i miss this, thanks, i was just looking to reinstall newton.

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djbneben
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 12:27
hey tiresius,

can you post the project in C++ of your wrapper please ?


thx

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tiresius
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 15:20
Hi djbneben-

I'll most likely release the source when I decide not to update it anymore, similar to what Walaber did. With that said, what do you need the wrapper source for? It won't help with integrating DarkGDK and Newton. You should be using the 2.0 libraries with DarkGDK anyway, and when you do use it directly (not wrapped). Besides, 1.53 is no longer supported by Julio.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
djbneben
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Posted: 1st Dec 2009 19:20
tiresius,
in fact it just to see the functions to be used to create a "ConvexHull" for example ... I already quite advanced in Newton, but I have some difficults on some function!

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spiret
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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 22:47
Thanks for the update! I haven't had time to test it, yet, but it looks cool!

However, where the hey is the loadBOD function? I heard that there was originally a dba source file included with the utility, but it's not included.

I really need this file (or whatever method we now use for this utility) Could someone point me in the right direction?

Problem is solved!
tiresius
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Posted: 8th Jan 2010 22:53 Edited at: 8th Jan 2010 22:54
Demo 6 has the rbd loader.dba in it which includes your loadBOD() function. I haven't touched RBD stuff for 1.53 but since Demo 6 seems to work I assume that file is what you're looking for.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
spiret
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Posted: 9th Jan 2010 02:03 Edited at: 9th Jan 2010 02:04
Thanks, tiresius!

I did look in the demos folder, but I seem to have missed it. And I looked for around the net for hours, too...

Back to my game!

Problem is solved!
Venge
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Posted: 17th Jan 2010 04:49 Edited at: 17th Jan 2010 23:00
Is there a limit to the number of ragdoll objects or ragdoll bones? I noticed that a single one cannot have more than 128 bones, unless I'm mistaken. See, I'm trying to make a GUI for my level editor for setting up Newton properties. The user can choose from any of the primitive types + convex hull and edit their size, rotation, and offset from the object's center. I've also added terrain(tree) collision and a compound-collision builder of sorts. The only thing left to do is ragdolls for character models, but they're being quite the pain.

The easiest way I've found to modify collision objects dynamically is by destroying the body and then creating a new one with the changed attributes. When trying to apply this to ragdoll bodies, however, I ran into some problems. First, I tried destroying the bodies of each bone in a ragdoll, then destroying the ragdoll itself(caused a crash). Then I tried just destroying the bodies and adding them as new bones to the ragdoll, but it seemed to crash whenever I had over 128 bones (or user modifications, since all bones were destroyed whenever scale,offset,or rotation of a bone was modified by the user). My current setup is to destroy all the bone bodies and create a new ragdoll object. This allows for as many bones as I want(so far), but there doesn't seem to be a way to restart the numbering of bones, even when it's a new ragdoll object. Even when I destroyed the ragdoll object itself, the bone count for the next object started where the previous one left off.

I'm wondering if a) there's a simpler way to do what I am attempting to do, or b) if what I'm doing will cause an eventual crash, since a new ragdoll object is created every time a bone is changed.

EDIT: Seem to have found a limit. Not sure how many ragdolls I created, but it sort of crashed at 4095 bones. Looks like my editor is going to need some reworking.

EDIT2: Guh. *Just* found the "NDB_NewtonBodySetCollision" command, so I can adjust collision data without destroying the bodies. Der.


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tiresius
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Posted: 18th Jan 2010 04:03
The maximum number of bones for the Newton Wrapper is 4095. I haven't used ragdolls much (by that I mean, at all) but this looks to be for the limit across all objects. The maximum bones per ragdoll is 128.

It should be clearing the bone IDs when you do a NDB_NewtonDestroyRagDoll() but I do see some fishy code (possible off by one) that might cause a single bone/body ID to stick around and not get cleared.

Are you seeing a ragdoll with 4 bones, after getting cleared the next new ragdoll bones start at bone id 5 ?


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Venge
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Posted: 18th Jan 2010 04:45
Yes. Calling NDB_NewtonDestroyRagdoll destroys all ragdoll bones, even causing a crash if there are no bones to delete. However, it does not reset the bone counter, which leads to those problems. I've reworked my editor to use the NDB_NewtonBodySetCollision command instead of destroying bones, but it would still be easier to destroy the ragdoll itself.

As a test, I put this block in my loop:



I created a ragdoll with 4 bones, then pressed x. That raised the error I set here, and gave me "1, 5". Destroying the ragdoll removed the bones' bodies, but does not reset the bone counter.


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tiresius
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 05:13 Edited at: 19th Jan 2010 05:14
To be honest I've never used Ragdolls before in my projects. If you could supply a short & simple program to show the problem (including your code there already) I can dig into the wrapper and see what is happening. I need some spoonfeeding to help speed along a fix since I am a C++ baby.

I agree that destroying the ragdoll should leave no trace behind of the bones at all, etc. You do need to delete the DBPro objects yourself, though, but you probably already knew that.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Venge
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 06:51
Alright, I'll whip something up tomorrow. I spent today driving back to college, unpacking, and then playing through Army of Two in its entirety with a friend. I've only just sat down at my laptop, and now it's late and I have one whole class tomorrow.


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Venge
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 14:59
Okay, I've attached a short program demonstrating the problem. For some reason, NDB_DebugMakeNewtonObject() kept causing the program to crash, so I just made a wireframe box and positioned it to the bone's offset. Left-clicking will destroy the current ragdoll, increase the offset of the bone by 1, and then create a new ragdoll with the updated bone offset.


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Venge
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Posted: 21st Jan 2010 05:35
Any luck?

I don't mean to nag, it's just that this is one of the last things I need to do before I can move on with my project. A bit of bad timing on my part to have postponed this for so long, but it would be nice to know if this is fixable or if I need to work out a different method.


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tiresius
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Posted: 21st Jan 2010 19:53
I will try to look into it by next week but things are quite busy in RL right now so I can't make any promises.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
tiresius
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2010 02:59
Hi Venge-

Your tiny example inspired me to work on this tonight. Please try the attached NDB.dll and let me know how that works out for you in your multi-bone models. It fixes the issue with your small example, at least.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.

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Venge
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2010 05:52 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2010 05:53
Dude.



You are the man! Works great once I de-mangled my project enough to use it. Here's a pic of the editor in action. Ignore the red ghosted box and the giant arrow cursor, I'm still working on them.



EDIT: Also just noticed the instructions at the bottom are way wrong as well, remnants of an earlier system.

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tiresius
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2010 15:38
That's great I'll update the online archive with the new fixed version. Not many in DBPro have used Newton ragdolls to the extent you are so it is nice to see someone doing so. The bug you found is as old as the wrapper. Good luck on your editor it looks really nice.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
tiresius
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Posted: 30th Jan 2010 05:31
Finally got around to uploading the archive. Updated the first post to reflect the changes.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
tiresius
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Posted: 12th Feb 2010 02:50
Just a heads up I corrected the Timeslice demo to correctly show how Compound Collision commands are used. It was missing a call to NDB_StartCompoundCollision !


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
moreVD
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 13:23
need help please

When i try to run demo06 - vehicle example i get a runtime error 1507 - display using 32 bit is not supported by available hardware at line 0
tiresius
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 19:44 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 19:45
Hi moreVD. The demo06 has a funky graphics resolution setting in the DBPRO file for the project. Try changing this setting in your IDE, or you can also try creating a NEW project and include the two source files in it, without filling in the resolution settings.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
moreVD
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 02:17
thankyou tiresius for pointing me in the right direction
i opened the DBPRO File in note pad and changed the fullscreen resolution= to the settings i needed then saved it now it works

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