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Sid - I don't have much against US in particular. I would prefer, however, if I didn't have to write core functionality within UnrealScript for a game. Anything you write in a script can be written in C++. But UnrealScript makes it more convenient I suppose.


I never laughed. I hope you realize I'm not attacking you here. This forum IS primarily for Dark Basic Pro, correct?


That is the one thing I was relatively shocked about - the lack of documentation. Their online documentation is horrible and doesn't really help unfortunately.

Yes, that is true, but many of the statements regarding OOP are plain false and can scare someone away from learning more about it.



When I asked for a source, I meant a publication or article explaining that programs written in C++ are buggier because they're OOP, and that somehow procedural programming is "cleaner". You are the first person I have ever seen say something like that, so I wanted to know where you got that idea from.

If it's just your opinion, then don't write it up as factual You mixed that sentence in with how OOP was around since the 1960s, so it sounds as if you're stating a fact.

I have nothing against procedural languages; I love DBP and PlayBasic as much as the next guy. But at least I respect and understand that OOP has its uses and isn't just an elaborate waste of time.

I've already said it was an opinion and not a fact, so lets not argue about it because that is a elaborate waste of time.

If we are talking about programs being "messy" then it depends more on the programmer than it does the language anyway.
That is a fact.

A poorly written C++ program can be messier than one written in BASIC.
Just like a poorly written BASIC program can be messier than one written in C++.
Again it depends on the programmer, just like the preference.
I am not trying to discourage people from using C++, but I do feel like people should be able to have a preference without others telling them they are stupid or wrong.
Each programmer has to find the language that works best for them, for some people its OOP based and for other it's not.

If I have to explain myself further, then chances are you wouldn't understand anyway.


My writing style is my choice as well.
I am not breaking any rules with what I said, so who are you to tell me what to say and what not to, or how to say it?
I never said it was a fact, so that was your perception of my intention which is out of my control.
The other statements of opinions were stated as facts as much as mine, and just because someone else wrote that opinion before, doesn't make it a fact.


I may be the first you heard say it, but I am not the first to say it and I am not alone.
I am speaking from my own experiences in programming and not from something I read.
That statement should confirm that my previous statements were opinions and not documented facts.

So kids, there is nothing wrong with C++, and it is not messy, so you should learn it today because the articles say so!

There, I said what you wanted to hear, are you happy now?

Then go play, and have fun!

Seriously though, learning C++ is easier when you are starting out and learn OOP first.
But for people who spent over a decade doing things the old way, it is a hard transition for some.
Therefore, our C++ is a lot messier than yours, and I have seen a lot of it.

I always forget that since I'm a mod everyone thinks I am being too harsh on them. I just ask for clarification, and if it rubs you the wrong way, then... well... try to be more clear the first time you write it

There, I said try.

Nah, big commercial contracts get source code drops + support from Unreal. Bioshock, for example. is pretty heavily modified vs. vanilla UT stuff (especially since it's a mish-mash of UT2/UT3).

But we're not talking about any specific piece of code, I'm fully aware someone can write some amazingly complicated OOP code that's totally pointless but that's besides the point. Anything that can be done via procedural code can also be done using OOP because procedural programming is a subset of OOP thus at the very least, the programs can be identical.

But because OOP typically gives you lots of additional features all aimed at making larger projects more manageable, there are some projects that can be done more elegantly with the use of OO, that use less code, are easier to maintain etc, these are all antonyms of messy. Thus it's irrelevant to what degree you deem messy to be, as long as it does one of the former then it's true.

To make an analogy: you have two garbage compactors, one is called PP, one is called OOP. If you throw garbage over OOP and not into it, then PP can compress more. But if you put the garbage into both then OOP can always do the same amount of compression as PP. However, when you put certain objects in there, especially lots of objects, then OOP can compress it more than PP can. Thus OOP is better at compressing. However, OOP has a few more buttons so it takes a little longer to master its use. You're basically arguing that because someone doesn't want to learn how OOP's buttons work(thus not learn how to compress the garbage), it's not as good at compressing than PP.




It has nothing to do with what articles say, if you sit down and learn various OOP aspects it should be as plain as day how useful it can be in making massive projects not so massive. Also, games are typically very complicated and have many many interconnecting parts thus it's surprising so many people here are much against it as it's the logical choice. Also, OOP != C++.




If you're starting out in programming then I'd imagine learning OOP would be quite difficult, however C++ allows you to not even touch objects if you don't want thus it's ideal for making the transition. Learning the basics couldn't be easier really, as you're(I assume) already acquainted with UDTs, thus adding methods to them isn't such a hard thing to grasp, then inheritance is a small step too, etc.

^ This = win. I highly recommend it. Personally, I did everything procedurally (so effectively C) when I first started. The issues I eventually had with that route (e.g. I was making a game where I had two separate but very similar entities - proc wise it lead to duplication) were solved by OOP - so rather than applying OOP randomly and for no reason, I learnt about it as a natural consequence of the flaws of proc. - a good way to learn in my opinion

Unreal Development Kit Update

Epic Games sends word that they've updated and added some support material for the Unreal Development Kit:

* 171 free video training tutorials spanning 17 topics
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/VideoTutorials.html
* UDK Licensing FAQ to cover a lot of common inquiries
http://udk.com/licensing-faqs.html
* Unreal Developer Network (not really an update - just a reminder that it's there and being updated)
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/DevelopmentKitHome.html

Nice update fallen one, thanks for the info! I wish I had time to dive into this. I'm so ready for winter break

Sweet, saw the links in the Content Browser, but thanks anyway, they're more than useful...