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Geek Culture / I want to make YOUR game...

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Stefan p
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 02:44
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Good Luck

I am mother and father, but never nurse.I'm rarely still, but I never wander. What am I? See my sketch
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TechLord
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 03:02
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Quote: "Whatever you do, just make sure you're not being an architecture astronaut
"
Thanks hyrichter for the link, but, honestly have no idea what its about

Quote: "Good Luck"
On the S3GE or getting some new game ideas to help boost the PC Game Market?

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 05:39
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Quote: "But there really is no argument for using DX..."


Then please tell me why most PC games use DirectX. Because it's more than just a rendering API. The Mac and Linux game market is so miniscule I would say it's not worth investing the time for indie game companies.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 06:51
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Quote: "Then please tell me why most PC games use DirectX."


Because they didn't write the engine


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David R
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 00:06 Edited at: 28th Dec 2009 00:07
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Quote: " The Mac and Linux game market is so miniscule I would say it's not worth investing the time for indie game companies."


I'd just like to point out that this logic is rather backward. What may be a 'miniscule' market to a huge publisher/on an industry-wide scope is still a massive market to an indie dev.

Case in point: 2D Boy's stats said that ~30% of World of Goo purchasers were OS X users. That's a big chunk of sales - especially for an indie (publishers can afford to take a hit on that if sticking to a single platform makes development quicker, presumably)

Another point worth making: it costs nothing to make your app or engine cross platform. So even if other OSes accounted for... say, 5 sales - why lose those 5 sales gluing your tech to a single platform, when platform-neutral tech costs zero to make use of? It's just common sense

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 02:09
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Quote: "Another point worth making: it costs nothing to make your app or engine cross platform. So even if other OSes accounted for... say, 5 sales - why lose those 5 sales gluing your tech to a single platform, when platform-neutral tech costs zero to make use of? It's just common sense"


But it's not possible with DirectX, which was my point. If someone wants to make their game in OpenGL, go ahead. It's very possible (I have done so myself). I still believe DirectX is a better overall package because it contains libraries for sound, input, networking, rendering, etc. In my opinion it's not worth the extra hassle; World of Goo is just one example. There are many more successful indie games on Windows-only.


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demons breath
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 02:45
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Something like Linux is also surely going to have more people who will be drawn to the appeal of indie game publishers (proportionately) I would think...

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the_winch
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 14:46 Edited at: 16th Jan 2010 19:44
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Quote: "Whatever you do, just make sure you're not being an architecture astronaut"


I don't think there is any danger of that. The "engine" is just a header file containing a mass of functions wrapping plugins.

http://darkgdkosp.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/darkgdkosp/Projects/S3GE/S3GE/S3GE_API.h?revision=69&view=markup&pathrev=69

It desperately needs some architecture. Look at the xml functions for example. Using simple functions alone means the xml file is opened and parsed for every single value you want to read from the file.

--

Quote: "Another point worth making: it costs nothing to make your app or engine cross platform."


That's not really true. There are differences between the platforms that can't be abstracted away. Things like different UI conventions and packaging methods. All this needs to be learnt and implemented.
Then after that you have to test everything on each platform which will clearly take longer than testing on a single platform.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 14:59 Edited at: 28th Dec 2009 15:00
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@Jeku:

If you want everything in one library, SDL or GLFW do that pretty well, handling window management and input, etc. under many completely different OSes using very easy to use functions. There really isn't any reason at all to use DX these days. It has no real advantage over any other framework any more. I haven't worked with SDL much but GLFW comes with a huge .PDF demonstrating each function and explaining them. With examples. So the support's there, the functionality's there, and it has the advantage of being cross platform. And free.

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Dec 2009 21:10
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Quote: " There really isn't any reason at all to use DX these days. It has no real advantage over any other framework any more."


That is obviously an objective opinion, because like I said before, most games nowadays are built with DirectX. If there wasn't "any reason at all to use DX these days" then surely everything would be made with OpenGL.


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David R
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 01:04
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Quote: "That is obviously an objective opinion, because like I said before, most games nowadays are built with DirectX. If there wasn't "any reason at all to use DX these days" then surely everything would be made with OpenGL."


You're kind of skewing the quote you're replying to with that - namely the fact it goes on to say there is no real advantage in using it - which is completely true. GL, DX (or SDL and other 'combined' APIs) are pretty much on equal footing. In fact, being stuck to Windows et al, I'm thinking DX is at a disadvantage if anything.

And popular use of DX != it's all encompassing and amazing. If anything, I'm guessing that's a by product of the 360. I'll bet money that a) GL (and other non-MS APIs) aren't supported on 360 or b) DX is a requirement for a game to be certified for 360

Considering most releases are multiplatform these days, I'm thinking that's really the only thing keeping DX around/making it worthwhile (since it does allow support of two platforms)

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TechLord
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 07:53
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Quote: "the_winch: It desperately needs some architecture. Look at the xml functions for example. Using simple functions alone means the xml file is opened and parsed for every single value you want to read from the file."
I'm open to suggestions on open source engine architecture and could really use suggestions on unique Game Idea that will breath life back into PC-based Game Market.

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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 03:09 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 03:09
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Quote: "You're kind of skewing the quote you're replying to with that"


Um, no, that is not skewing at all. Are you following me around again?

If there were real advantages to using OpenGL and other libraries, then the majority of developers would be using it. If it were on equal ground, then it would at least have half the market.


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jasonhtml
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 03:24
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Quote: "popular use of DX != it's all encompassing and amazing"


actually it kinda does... in a free market system, the strongest products survive

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AndrewT
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 03:28 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 03:29
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Quote: "actually it kinda does... in a free market system, the strongest products survive"


I wish. In reality, those with the most money survive. Who has more money--Microsoft or the OpenGL developers?

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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 04:19
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Quote: "I wish. In reality, those with the most money survive. Who has more money--Microsoft or the OpenGL developers?"


So are you saying that DX is used more often because of Microsoft money? What is that in regards to--- payouts (not in my experience)? Advertising (because all those DX advertisements on television )?


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David R
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 14:18 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 14:20
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Quote: "Um, no, that is not skewing at all. Are you following me around again?
"


Yeah, good to see your argument is so strong you have to make it into a petty personal thing. Nice one. Oh, and for the record - I was posting in this thread before you even did. I'm replying to you because it's part of the topic of the thread (FOSS and platform neutral stuff). Not everything is about you, you know.

Quote: "
If there were real advantages to using OpenGL and other libraries, then the majority of developers would be using it. If it were on equal ground, then it would at least have half the market.
"


That's completely flawed. Just because the majority don't use it does not mean its advantages are negated / don't exist.

There are massive advantages to the desktop use of other processor families. Just because the x86 is widely used (and has embedded itself into the market) does not mean everything else has no advantage over it. Same with DX. Widely used and ingrained != always advantageous. Stupid and flawed tech. can ingrain itself over time, and be difficult to migrate from. It doesn't make it better.

Quote: "actually it kinda does... in a free market system, the strongest products survive
"


Actually it kind of doesn't. Win95 was massively popular back when it was released. That does not automatically make it superior to every other OS at that time. It was simply more popular. Not better. The two concepts are not the same

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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 22:38
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Quote: "Yeah, good to see your argument is so strong you have to make it into a petty personal thing. Nice one."


Quit being an ass or you will get slapped, honestly. I'm getting sick of your incessant need to argue with every little thing I post. I'm not the only one who has noticed this about you, so cool off somewhere and come back when you're not in a mood.

Quote: "Not everything is about you, you know."


Puleeze... go away for a while and get some fresh air. It will do you some good I didn't say this was about me, and I couldn't care any less what you think of me. But you have been annoying me for a long time.

I already gave my arguments and 5 years of game development experience under my belt. I *think* I know a thing or two about why specific technologies are chosen over others.

I didn't want to say "because I did this and that, I know more than you" because it comes off as bragging. But you are forcing my hand here. What credentials do you have, aside from your assumptions? I have built games in OpenGL and in Direct3D. I have built games for PC, Mac, and 5 or 6 game consoles with various technical specs. I understand why developers choose one platform or another, as I have personally taken part in those technical meetings, especially when I did my time at the independent game company making the Xbox 360 racing game. I didn't come into this thread to argue, but to give my opinion that it's not worth spending time making cross-platform games as an indie developer. That is experience talking, not cloudy generalizing. Most of us here have never even completed a single game for Windows, let alone all the major platforms. Get some perspective.


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David R
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 23:21 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 23:26
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Quote: "Quit being an ass or you will get slapped, honestly. I'm getting sick of your incessant need to argue with every little thing I post. I'm not the only one who has noticed this about you, so cool off somewhere and come back when you're not in a mood.

Puleeze... go away for a while and get some fresh air. It will do you some good I didn't say this was about me, and I couldn't care any less what you think of me. But you have been annoying me for a long time."


Me being the ass? Whatever. Clearly I just follow you to argue with you. It's nothing to do with the fact I've made several posts in this thread and I've already discussed platform and APIs at length. I'm here purely to irritate you

Quote: " understand why developers choose one platform or another, as I have personally taken part in those technical meetings, especially when I did my time at the independent game company making the Xbox 360 racing game."


Reasons being what exactly? So far all you've said amounts to "DX is used by the majority, therefore, DX is best/more appropriate etc." Giving bland meaningless explanations like "[n] is used by the majority" is not a legitimate technical reason - no matter how much experience you have / what companies you worked for / what projects you've worked on. Why are you surprised I'm arguing if you're giving such vague generic responses? (that don't even amount to reasons)

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 23:26
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If anything, DX will be more popular because it's got the biggest software company in the world behind it pushing it on universities and colleges.

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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 23:40
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I gave my reasons why, in my opinion, DX is a more attractive option for indie developers. If you read my posts again, the beauty of DX is that it has everything you need in their own subsets of the API. You have sound, networking, input, and a world class rendering API. You are not required to download different APIs and mix-and-match libraries. The documentation is unmatched. GLFW looks interesting but last time I looked at it the documentation left a lot to be desired. If you walk into any random bookstore you will find more information on DirectX than relatively unknown libraries (comparatively speaking). Honestly there's no point wasting anymore finger strength on this subject, as some people are too narrow-minded to look at the obvious.

And again, from my experience, the indie developer has more support and options using DirectX 9 for their game, and can get something up and running much quicker than using something like SDL. I have seen a few games made with SDL, but it hasn't reached widespread use. Yes, OpenGL is another heavily documented API, but considering it's used for rendering, you will still need other libraries for sound, networking, input and other things.


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tiresius
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This reverse-WIP with no meat at all (just an advert on his engine, with not even a video to show what it does) has turned into a flame fest. LOCK!

No offense Techlord I like your pretty graphs and charts, and it's nice you're using DarkGDK. But you really don't have any game ideas floating around? Most people here have 100+ game ideas they are a dime a dozen.


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jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 08:18 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2010 08:19
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Quote: "I wish. In reality, those with the most money survive. Who has more money--Microsoft or the OpenGL developers?"


where do you think they got all that money? you think it just falls out of the sky? money follows success.

Quote: "Actually it kind of doesn't. Win95 was massively popular back when it was released. That does not automatically make it superior to every other OS at that time. It was simply more popular. Not better. The two concepts are not the same"


the reason it was popular is clearly because it fulfilled needs that customers had. this, in their eyes, makes it a better product. sure, maybe it wasn't the best in all technical aspects... but that doesn't matter. it comes down to what the customer wants. if you don't have that in your product, you lose! now think back to DX vs OpenGL. DX obviously has things that companies want or they wouldn't be using it!

As Jeku's last post shows, DX has MANY features to offer. customers want these!

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TechLord
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 14:24 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2010 14:27
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Quote: "This reverse-WIP with no meat at all (just an advert on his engine, with not even a video to show what it does) has turned into a flame fest. LOCK!

No offense Techlord I like your pretty graphs and charts, and it's nice you're using DarkGDK. But you really don't have any game ideas floating around? Most people here have 100+ game ideas they are a dime a dozen."


A video cannot beat a live demo - its Open Source and freely available. I dont understand the critical opinions about my illustrations. They take time to prepare and I'm improving my 2D art skill in the process.

To be honest, most game ideas in this forum are cookie-cutters in the shape of dead-horses. There are very few original ideas. Few can barely comprehend a multi-genre game or even the possibility of such an engine.

I'm using DGDK for MY Engine and careless about the API debate. All these so-called gurus talk at me as if I'm noob, but, I'm not. I've been working at game dev for a couple of decades, and develop web apps professionally. I've finally feel I have the patience to work things to completion and I'm having success with DGDK.

The funny thing is I have plenty of ideas for game systems, but, not many ideas for games. Thats not how I started, but, thats where I am at now. I just hope the PC Gaming Market survives a little bit longer for my amazing game thats gonna blow the socks off the industry.

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tiresius
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 18:49
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Actually a video can beat a live demo when all a person wants is proof of something existing. A video I can watch on Youtube in about 5 seconds time. A demo I have to download unzip and run. And I was under the impression that you have an SVN repository that I'd have to download, compile and then run. Too much work.


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TechLord
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 01:00 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2010 01:09
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Quote: "A demo I have to download unzip and run. And I was under the impression that you have an SVN repository that I'd have to download, compile and then run. Too much work. "
With good reason. The project is open to individuals who share the vision and serious interest in making a contribution. It requires a lot of planning, organizing, and grunt work. Some concepts require massive amounts of R & D due to no readily available solution. I refuse to put another simple FPS tech demo out there to be scrutinized by those not participating in its creation.

This topic was about brainstorming game ideas and yet there is less than a handful that even mention a game - go figure.

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 04:54
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playing "hard to get" doesn't work in making a good project. post something we can watch/play or everyone will lose whatever interest they may have had...

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 07:49
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Quote: " All these so-called gurus talk at me as if I'm noob, but, I'm not."


Well, can you blame them, when you post stuff like the following ?

Quote: "I just hope the PC Gaming Market survives a little bit longer for my amazing game thats gonna blow the socks off the industry."


Personally, I think you focus on either building engines, or writing a game. Not try to do it all..


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 17:37
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Quote: "I refuse to put another simple FPS tech demo out there to be scrutinized by those not participating in its creation."

It might be painful but it's important. If you can't accept potential players' feedback then your game won't be the best that it can and then there is no way it can be successful much less breathe life back into anything.

For your game to breathe life back into the PC game market it will have to be technically at least as good as the best games available and superior in gameplay, graphics, and immersion. You're just trying to do too much. There's no way you can make a game engine as good as the best ones available. Like most indie developers, myself included, you're biting off more than you can chew. My goals are a bit more realistic, though, so I've at least succeeded in making my game engine.


Download the game!
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TechLord
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 19:23 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2010 19:23
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The Arrowhead Project - Game Design Document

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Cash Curtis II
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What's up with that? It's an interesting idea, unfortunately it's got some big problems. It's using someone else's idea (Stephen King, his book, his movie, can't ever sell it, get sued, etc), doesn't include any level designs, and doesn't detail the progression of the game. Who exactly made it? I see a name, but the name doesn't mean anything to me.


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TechLord
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Its a Fan Game based on The MIST IP. Its not for sale. Its WIP. Its just an example of one of my ideas, and as you can see its not to original. But, I reckon if I'm going to get more post for game ideas, I need to show one of my own.

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tiresius
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I just don't get it, I really don't. What is the purpose of this post? Do you really need someone's game design doc to be inspired enough to make a game with your Super 3D Game Engine? I said it before but I think this post is just a way to advertise your latest project. Maybe that's not a bad thing since at least it's in Geek Culture...

In your DarkGDK WIP post you have a nice graphic showing pretty much every genre of game which is planned to be possible by your Super 3D Game Engine. Just pick one of them and make it with your engine. That way the mosaic of beautiful screenshots displayed isn't 100% unproven hot air and marketing-style hooey.

I would suggest maybe making a Tetris clone, or if you're really feeling frisky try to make the top down action game (Ikari Warriors? couldn't tell).


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
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marlou
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Im planning to make a CASINO game with many sidegames.

Casino isn't a copyrighted idea,right?

The CASINO game contains card games like blackjack,poker,deuces wild and more, slot machine games and many more(still researching..i dont go into casinos XD).

Once some of the casino games are finished. I'll try integrating them into an RPG then integrate it into MMORPG as sidegames.

So first things first, make a black jack or poker game then integrate into CASINO game then into RPG or any higher game and so on.

Actually im planning to make games that are integratable as sidegames to my other games. In that way, I feel like im in continuous progression.

So that's my game, what about yours?
You want to make it??

Hehe..^^

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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TechLord
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Posted: 4th Jan 2010 16:19
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Hi marlou,

I've found inspiration in casino games. In fact, I often think up ideas for credit/cash prize arcade style game-of-chance hybrids. I developed a Online Cash-Based Skill Game Tournament System and several Game-of-Chance prototypes for my own amusement. Heck, I even turned a Spelling Bee into a game-of-chance.

I'm personally sick of Video Slots & Video Poker. I would be more so interested in playing PacMan with a progressive Jackpot -> JacMan - lol.

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marlou
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Come to think of it..

Casino games are a bit boring..Maybe i should add some fancy sound effects and graphic effects to make things nicer..

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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TechLord
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 09:40
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Quote: "Casino games are a bit boring..Maybe i should add some fancy sound effects and graphic effects to make things nicer.."
Are you developing said game with QH engine?

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marlou
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 12:52
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Quote: "Are you developing said game with QH engine?"

Yes. Im going to use Ruby to make an entire black jack and poker game. In that way, I can call the game as a sidegame in my RPG main game.

Maybe I should contribute my Ruby engine into S3GE and make my game with S3GE. My codes for integrating Ruby isn't neat and isn't commented at all..LOL.
I should try commenting and documenting it before commiting it to S3GE..

Hey TechLord..What if i contribute an entire engine into DOSP..Would it be fit? The engine can be used alongside or under S3GE.. In that way, we both can use our developments together..
After all,I still want to make an entire engine.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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David R
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:02 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 13:05
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Quote: " my Ruby engine into S3GE and make my game with S3GE. "


If you're referring to using the Ruby programming language: Make sure you're using YARV [the optimized interpreter]. Unless you want an extremely slow game. Ruby's reference interpreter is as slow as molasses

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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marlou
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:15 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 13:19
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Okay Thanks. I've only known Ruby for 2 months..So I dont know much..
My interpreter doesn't use YARV if thats what you want to know..
I'll try using Ruby1.9 as it uses YARV as its interpreter..

Ruby is slower than Lua.. But then I like Ruby's OOP style.

EDIT:
I already tested its speed. I didn't see that much significant decrease in frame rate when calling DarkGDK functions from my Ruby code.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 21:36 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 21:37
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Speaking of Casino... Poker Stars advertises on my website. They've paid me an undisclosed ('small') amount of money.

http://www.cashcurtis.com/html/games.htm

In any event, I shouldn't be on the forum, I have a game in progress. Later.


Download the game!
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marlou
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 07:18
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Quote: "Speaking of Casino... Poker Stars advertises on my website. They've paid me an undisclosed ('small') amount of money."


Good for you..^^

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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Matty H
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Posted: 16th Jan 2010 16:42 Edited at: 17th Jan 2010 00:54
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I have an idea for a Third Person Shooter with a gimmick, I have called it 'Gravity Flip'. I started making it a while back and it seems to work.

Basically its a shooter but you dont have a floor, its just see through at the moment, it has areas which are paved, now you have a flip ability which flips you 180 about the z-axis so you are upside-down(or are you? who knows?). You cant flip in certain places as there is paving blocks in certain areas.

You can shoot at people who are on your rotation or people who appear below you, its kinda cool but I admit its just a gimmick at the moment, I think with some original level design it could be a good idea.

Think of 'cap the flag', you have to defend on two planes, or you have an extra dimension to cap their flag.

Anyway, if anyone likes the idea I'll post a few screenshots.


As for the rest of this thread, Techlord I think you should have two threads.
1. Discuss the S3GE game engine.
2. I want to make YOUR game.

Maybe too late now though lol, the thread is well and truly hijacked.


Edit: Just remembered, my nephew said the name was rubbish so we changed it to 'Flip-Fire'.
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TechLord
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Posted: 30th Jan 2010 08:52
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Quote: "I have an idea for a Third Person Shooter with a gimmick, I have called it 'Gravity Flip'. I started making it a while back and it seems to work. Basically its a shooter but you dont have a floor, its just see through at the moment, it has areas which are paved, now you have a flip ability which flips you 180 about the z-axis so you are upside-down(or are you? who knows?). You cant flip in certain places as there is paving blocks in certain areas."
Sounds like PREY with a twist (pun intended). In addition to the player, altering gravity to manipulate other objects could make for interesting puzzle game mechanics.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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ThePSXGamer
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Posted: 4th Feb 2010 02:18
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Hey,

I sent you a doc. by email. Did you get it? What do you think? I'm open to suggestions.

"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend."
-U.S. Army Training Notice
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ThePSXGamer
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 00:43
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Is there an error with this thread? It shows 95 messages total, but if you search for the thread, it shows that there were 97 replies. Also, it shows TechLord as the last one to post(On Jan. 30th), even though I can see my post of Feb 3rd is clearly last.

At first, I thought the posts were pending, but it's been way too long for that - right?

Can anyone shed some light on this situation. I'm still waiting to hear back about my game idea.

"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend."
-U.S. Army Training Notice
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