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Geek Culture / Does programming change your mind?

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Code eater
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 15:50
Hi,

At school, as far as I know, only me and another boy at school in my year program. We are interested in similar things and hence do similar subjects. But the way in which we think seems to be different to everyone else's. For example, in science and tech classes, we tend to ask and think very similar questions which noone else seems to get (not because of knowledge, just concept). I have also found myself thinking of, if physics and the world around us were writen on "God's" computer, how would it be done just at random times.

has anyone else experienced anything like this? does programming change your mind? or is it just that me and that other boy have similar minds and that is why we both program? or is it just coincedence?

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
General Jackson
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 17:24
YES!

I am EXACTLY like that lol.

thenerd
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 17:39
yup, absolutely. And, I am the top student in all my math-related classes, most likely because of how much stuff I've learned from programming.

charger bandit
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 17:41
Only I understand the way a game works from my school. Some people say framerate improves ping (WTF?) and they "got working PC games on PSP". Then I say how did you port DX9? They go all umm,I just clicked stuff.


A.K.A djmaster
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 17:58 Edited at: 17th Apr 2010 18:02
If (seppuku == hungry)
{
seppuku.eat.burger;
cholesterol = cholesterol + 100;
seppuku.guilt = true;

}


I guess it has.

BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 18:00
Quote: "Only I understand the way a game works from my school. Some people say framerate improves ping (WTF?) and they "got working PC games on PSP". Then I say how did you port DX9? They go all umm,I just clicked stuff."

Most PC games don't require DX9 .
David R
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 18:34 Edited at: 17th Apr 2010 18:40
Quote: "Some people say framerate improves ping (WTF?) "


That's not too 'out there' though - the quicker each frame turns over, the more time there is left for other tasks including processing packet I/O. Conversely, a crummy FPS means a huge delay (waiting for the frame to finish drawing) unless the networking in the game is threaded (which is not a dead-cert even with modern games)

So they're kind of correct, they've just worded themselves wrong / have cause->effect the wrong way around

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
General Jackson
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 18:42
3d affects the way i think too.

For example, mirrors have realtime reflection, Metal has specular\bumped specular shaders, and so on


I wonder what texture size human beings have

BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 18:59
To actually respond to the topic, well, yeah, my friends make fun of me all the time for admiring the technical aspect of games. We were playing Halo 3 once and my friend totally gunned me down with the battle rifle. My corpse landed under a warthog, with the camera giving a great view of the suspesion (yes, it's actually there). I got a laugh when I admired it out loud.
Matty H
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 19:16
When you learn to program you are learning to look at things in a logical way, this new skill translates to almost anything you may do in your life imo.

I also think that everyone here probably has a general drive to be creative, I bet alot of you can play an instrument, maybe be a bit of an artist or even like to write screenplays lol. I may be wrong though, you tell me?

lazerus
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 21:16
I killed the techinical part of me when i choose to focus on art.

Though i can grasp nearly any concept thrown at me. The maths part isnt my strong suit anymore but i can still understand it if i think a little.

What ever you choose to do it will alter the way you think about things. Simple.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 17th Apr 2010 21:56
Yes and no.

Sometimes, I'll be sitting there, and somebody will give me two options. I'll then answer them like this:



What I mean is that I will literally say that out loud, just to confuse them and see the looks on their faces.

But as far as "changing my mind"...eh, not really. I'll look at things maybe a little more logically, but it hasn't really changed my perception of things. Maybe that's because I'm not a very good programmer though.


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flashing snall
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Posted: 17th Apr 2010 23:45
I always wonder how the worlds CPU and GPU can possibly do all the shadowing and post processing without laggin. Sometimes in my dreams I actually think the world DOES lag, and if Im tired and not paying attention, I think things lag... Its so wierd and people think Im crazy.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 00:23
Sometimes I genuinely refer to reflections in my head as cubemapping, and wonder how effects irl could be copied in a game...

Also my mates generally think I'm a nerd when I correct them on game stuff, like bloom and such...

Does God's physics engine run on Havok?

kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 00:32 Edited at: 18th Apr 2010 00:43
Ever since I've started programming I've been getting confused between real life, and computers. For example, sometimes when I think about real life things I can very often accidentally think they are computer programs. This can acctually lead me into thinking that I can write a program which will allow me to do almost anything. Like, get a life supply of Boost bars or become the most popular guy in school. A few secconds later though I realise that I have got confused again, it can be quite dissapointing .

Whenever I go out, I might think "Wow, this game has great graphics!".
When I talk to people I sometimes try to reverse engineer their AI system.
Some of the things I see or do, I imagine how I could make a program out of it.
I sometimes use computer words to describe things. Like when I felt really faint once, I said "the FPS is really low right now".
Whenever I make a mistake I think "Ctrl + Z". Then get disappointed about the fact that "Ctrl + Z" doesnt exist in real life.

This has only started when I started programming.

General Jackson
User Banned
Posted: 18th Apr 2010 03:49
Quote: "If jeremy_does_chores
RewardOfWatchingTV()
Else
Grounded()
EndIf"


HAHA


Quote: "I always wonder how the worlds CPU and GPU can possibly do all the shadowing and post processing without laggin. Sometimes in my dreams I actually think the world DOES lag, and if Im tired and not paying attention, I think things lag... Its so wierd and people think Im crazy.

"


Quite an engine, eh? No lag at all

Matty H
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 13:05 Edited at: 18th Apr 2010 13:05
I think the real world uses quantum computing, this is limitless (lag free) power. Also, I always wonder where the source code for the universe is located and whether we may be able to hack it somehow.

Diggsey
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 13:14
The worst part is when I'm dreaming, or am in the process of waking up.
All I know is that I have a problem: I need to get up

So I try to find the solution, but I have two ways to solve problems normally:
1) Program a solution
2) Perform an action to solve the problem

When I'm awake it's obvious which one to choose because it's common sense, but when I'm half asleep, common sense doesn't exist!

So not knowing otherwise I always choose 1, because it's less effort

And that's why I get up late

The Slayer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 13:52 Edited at: 18th Apr 2010 13:59
Well, I personally think that we're all just another part of The Matrix...
I'm wondering who of us is Neo. Hum,...maybe it's me...? NO,...it can't be...!?
Anyone seen Trinity lately...?

One thing's for sure, programmers look different at daily problems than other people. Programmers tend to analyse stuff more thorough and try to pre-calculate the outcome of difficult situations. Like for example: I always try to do my daily obligations in an orderly fashion, and I pre-visualize how things can be done the fastest and easiest way in order to get it all done in time. And then I always have some doom-scenario's in my head for when things could go wrong and act accordingly to those situations in order to keep on shedule. So, it's a lot like making a game where you would program all kinds of difficulties for the main character or create the A.I. for some character in your game.
I also believe that programmers have more sense of logic and are more creative than other people.

Sometimes I wonder if we could make a program that stops the war and killing and pain and hungre...
Maybe if we all would work together, it could be possible...?

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 14:27
Huh, strange Slayer...

I'm not a programmer, yet I live my life like that.

Maybe I should learn DBPro. Is is THAT hard?

The Slayer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 15:19 Edited at: 18th Apr 2010 15:20
Quote: "I'm not a programmer, yet I live my life like that."

Well, maybe there's a programmer in you after all, hey?
I was just saying that programmers see daily things as little programs, so they try to solve it in a mathematical or programming language sort of way. It's like riding a bike. Not programmers would just hop on their bike and pedal, right? Well, programmers would for example count the numbre of wheel-spins they did, the speed and the amount of wind to calculate how far they'll be in some period of time. Okay, this sounds a bit exaggerated, but you know what I mean, hey?

As for learning DBPro, NO, it is'nt that hard. Besides, you can make it as hard as you like, ya know? But yeah, I think you should give it a try.

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Code eater
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 17:43
One other theory I have which is probably completely wrong, but works for me: the fact that everyone experiences time differently and it vaires depending on what your doing ("time flies when you are having fun"). Well I blame this on the fact of how fast your brain is going, just like a processor. if it is running fast then you take a lot more mesurements and "snapshots" of what goes on around you every second, this makes it feel like time is going slowly, this kind of situation may occur when you are very scared and full of adrenaline and time seems to take forever. However when you are more relaxed you take less "snapshots" and measurements of the world around you every second and time goes very fast. This also explains why for young people time tends to go slower than when you are older. Just a theory and there are probably tonnes of holes. it just sums up the way I think.

Quote: "I bet alot of you can play an instrument"


I play two, and the other guy plays one as well i think.

Quote: "I pre-visualize how things can be done the fastest and easiest way in order to get it all done in time"


I do that. Whenever I am walking anywhere I plan my route so as to cut as many corners as possible.

So does programming cause this? or does this cause programming?

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 17:44
Quote: "Programmers tend to analyse stuff more thorough and try to pre-calculate the outcome of difficult situations."


Yerp. Ever since I started programming I've come to realize that I over-analyze EVERYTHING. It's kind of bothersome, because there are some things you just can't analyze and expect to get a straight answer; they're just things you can't control. And yet my mind still wants to analyze these things and try to get a definite result. And it never works, and I get frustrated.


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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:44
Okay, I will officially try to learn DBpro. Official now.

But yeah, I try to make everything math. Figure out what number of things I need to do to do some number of other things, etc. etc.

And I like the brain processor theory. That makes sense to me actually.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:54
Ever since I learned OOP, along with VB.Net, C++ and C#, my mind works very much in an object oriented way. I look at relationships (not love ones, but things relating) differently now and how things become part of a larger picture. I'm definitely growing into the programmer mind mentality.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
General Jackson
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 23:20
Quote: "Also, I always wonder where the source code for the universe is located and whether we may be able to hack it somehow.
"


Dont try - I imported the earths source once, but it was like 98 billion gigs worth of code. Ruined my computer

SikaSina Games
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 23:32
I always thought of life being coded, and every day of each life being designed in a level designer . I'm in set 4/7 for Maths with a B Predicted grade yet my teacher thinks of my way of calculating sums very strange...I always order my maths questions in my book like code and treat the Pythagoras and Trigonometry as coding too (I always take the different calculation than everyone else).

Quote: "I do that. Whenever I am walking anywhere I plan my route so as to cut as many corners as possible."


Same here . If I'm bowling, for example, I always treat it like programming a physics code (although I've never coded any physic whatsoever). My mates hate me talking about programming too since when they talk about deaths in MW2, I'm always butting in with something like "Ah, the ragdolls seem unresponsive though, and I don't think the AI seems finished since I can sneak past a dog, looking straight at me, undetected". Although the programming attitude does come in handy to my friends sometimes .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"I'm right here! Fix me! Fix me, mother-fudger!" - Amanda, SAW III
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 23:47
Some people's posts make me want to say: programming a universe using standard euler interpolation would leave accuracy and processing power directly related as such that for infinite accuracy you'd need infinite processing power.


Code eater
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 23:58
If I correctly understand you, you are saying that to make a universe intimately accurate you would need to be able to make a computer in it which could simulate the universe and so on. Hence you would need infinate processing power. Or are you refering to the infinate size of the universe?

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Zeroff
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 01:21
Don't you relise, our live is coded! We will be able to hack our live's source code (like matty halewood said).
Until then me and is trying to find if live's source code is in C++ . And it is, see I hacked the stars

Yet to have a signature
ShaunRW
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 06:15
When the flies are annoying me, I say:


I demand a patch now.

General Jackson
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 05:13
This needs a bump.


Has anyone noticed the perfect collision with the earths source code? I mean I was at the railroad tracks earlier and my foot NEVER ONCE went through the rails !!

flashing snall
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 07:09
seamless loading times too...

Lemonade
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 07:43 Edited at: 21st Apr 2010 07:43
I wonder if all sounds in rl are lossless.
BearCDP
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 12:05
Depends on how old you are.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 14:03
I think that the earth cheated with headphones. The earth only uses regular sounds, not 3D sounds like it should.

For shame earth! FOR SHAME!

budokaiman
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 14:38
Quote: "The earth only uses regular sounds, not 3D sounds like it should."

Earth uses 3d sounds, how else do you explain the doppler effect.

Logo by The Next
Van B
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 16:10
On earth there is no 2D or 3D sound, there is only sound waves, their movement is not controlled by 2D or even 3D logic, considering time is probably the most important factor. We can't say a real life sound has an actual position, or volume, or direction - a real sound could break any of the standard rules that should govern it. 3D sound, tying a sound wave into a position and orientation is so far off the mark that it should be forgotten. Really, we'd be better off calculating sound based on direction, location and volume. For instance, take a deep hole in the ground with a metronome at end, really the sound should 'emit' from the end of the hole, because the only way it could be heard is by traveling towards the listener - in a videogame, the metronome might only be heard near the position of the actual sound. All the tech is there to improve matters no end, yet nobody bothers.

It's like asking how many shades of green there actually are, the bottom line is that it depends on your point of view. It changes, but really humans can't tell the difference beyond the current measuring techniques, even the long established true colour format is beyond what we can actually distinguish. But the real answer is that there are infinite shades of green, just like there are infinite types and volumes and positions of most things.

Personally, I've learned to never use real life as a measurement, because a measurement has to stay a standard, and real life has no standards to abide by. How often have we seen true to life colour, realism so good you could believe you were actually there. CD's are supposed to be so good quality that it's like having the band in the same room, 16 million colours is apparantly the same as having the actual objects in front of you. It's all marketing hogwash set to please people who want the future right now. We should stop quantifying and start making stuff cool.

Scientists eventually worked out how a Bee can fly...
Turns out that it's a special little flick of the wings which makes then more effective when flapping out, so there is lift no matter which direction the wings are flapping. Now that's us missing a trick, something in the Bee's technique that was missed and only discovered after slow motion photography could show it. My point is that for years they said that a Bee's flight is IMPOSSIBLE. There's a long way from impossible to 'a flick of their wings'. Quantifying has made the human race look stupid, compared to insects, enough of a reason not to think like that for most people .

And? So?
This affects programmers more than most people, if we want to program something, a simulation say of a Bee's flight - we can't start with it being impossible, we have to fill the gaps in knowledge with guesswork and luck. With prior knowledge I might have the bee object gain height with each flap of wings, so it would bob in mid air and look like a flying insect. Wouldn't move like a bee though. A bee moves smoothly and erratic at the same time, to mimic that I would probably smooth out the speed changes, so no sharp bobbing, a gentle bob instead, smoother changes of direction, and it would look more like a bee's flight. The only way to do that is to disregard what people have decided as the truth, and worry about your own ways of replicating and mimicking. Why are game physics so important, why does that bulding need to come apart when I fire a rocket at it - meanwhile firing a rocket has no actual effect on my character, no kick back, no sign the the rocket launcher even weighs anything, or might affect the way you move.

I think I rambled enough, hopefully 1 person knows what I'm mangling on about. Basically, there's a lot worse you can do than guessing, you could be assuming that your guesses are the truth. So I would definitely say that programming can change your mind, it makes you a more self-relient thinker, you have to be, what your doing might not have been done before. But I'd also say that some brains have their own way of working things out, and programming is a good vehicle for that, so people who think outside the box often do it through computers, it's the most direct way to show your ideas.


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gamerboots
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 13:04
now all we need to know is what makes a bees flight impossible or possible ??? Perhaps the one who said it was impossible forgot something ?? Who said it was impossible and why ? obviously its possible but what makes it so ?

On topic though , is it not true that each side of the brain thinks differently , one side rationally or logically and the other side emotionally ? Is it true that while using one side you dont think with the other ? I think that programming changes your perspective a little on things because you have to think with the side that thinks logically. (yes I believe it changes your perspective )

----------------
Gamerboots~
Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 13:31
Quote: "for young people time tends to go slower than when you are older"

Well that's because a day is a much larger percentage of a 5 year-old's life than a 50 year-old's

TheComet
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 14:42
Quote: "Does programming change your mind?"


Not really, because my mind is designed to program. So it is not programming that changes my mind, it is I that changes programming! MUAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAA!! Now where's my whiskey?

TheComet

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 16:09
Quote: "Does programming change your mind?"


I'm in two minds about this one.. Yes.. No.. Yes .. No....








Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 23:29
Quote: "I'm in two minds about this one"

Dual core?

Xarshi
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 06:08
Programming is simply problem solving. The language is not at all the difficult factor. Knowing how to solve the problems are the tricky part. This is what a lot of what you do, even if you don't realize it, is. This is why programming would have this affect on you. The more you program the more you think logically on how to solve a problem. Really, a program is just a way of speeding up your own abilities. A computer does not have intelligence, but speed. A human does not have speed, but has intelligence. Together they form a magnificent bond. That sounds so unbelievably corny. But it's quite true. I'd be shocked if any real programmer didn't think differently than most people. But perhaps that is just me.

charger bandit
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 09:39
How much polys does my table have? Hmm,maybe its got turbosmoothing or tesselation
Thinking like a programmer in real life can raise quite some questions like what code do they use for wind making etc.

BTW where did God get such awesome grass model? And his terrain making tool is pretty awesome I guess.


Lemonade
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 11:34
Ever wondered how you would code a 3D LCD monitor to emit light across the entire surface of the screen?
Zotoaster
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 16:12
Programming has given me the ability to grasp abstract concepts with ease. This is because to be a good programmer, you have to keep many things in mind at once. It boils down to two things: algorithms and data structures.

A novice programmer is unlikely to be able to write a good algorithm, simply because their mind isn't trained to keep all the different stages in mind at once. A talented programmer is able to keep notes on just about every little part of something they're working on, and every time they make a change they know most of the parts it's going to affect without even thinking about it. This is the reason why recursion is so tricky to understand at the beginning - because you have to assume there are going to be an infinite number of recursive calls, all doing something slightly different at every stage, and somehow (I don't know how), one's able to simply understand exactly what's going to happen at all stages. This is what I mean by abstract concepts. It's too hard to put recursion in concrete terms to a novice, yet to an experienced programmer, it's simple to visualise.

I think programming is more than just mental exercise. It really does make you fundamentally think differently about everything. This morning I was just waking up, still 60% asleep, and I thought I wasn't able to get up yet because I hadn't imported the standard library. Maybe that's a bit too far.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
BMacZero
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 17:12
Quote: "And his terrain making tool is pretty awesome I guess."

Well, it's the standard we judge all of ours off of, so you kind of can't compare it...to itself.

Code eater
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 19:37
Quote: "I always wonder how the worlds CPU and GPU can possibly do all the shadowing and post processing without laggin"


Ah, but for all you know it is lagging. But because we are in a different time dimension (don't know how else to put it) to the "processor" and instead in one controlled by it we don't feel the lag because we only react when the processor gets round to making us think.

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 20:13
Quote: "Ah, but for all you know it is lagging. But because we are in a different time dimension (don't know how else to put it) to the "processor" and instead in one controlled by it we don't feel the lag because we only react when the processor gets round to making us think.
"


!!!

Maybe you're right! Maybe the world, to us, if we could see the time between frames, would be at like 0.2 FPSC. But it seems smoother to us because it has to render us processing the light we receive!

Unless of course our world was pre-rendered. Wonder how long that took.

Yes, the Almighty Programmer in the Sky has set the day 12/21/2012 to be the day the pre-render ends...And our world will be exited out.

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