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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] why has geek culture gotten so flamey

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thenerd
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Posted: 17th May 2010 23:10 Edited at: 17th May 2010 23:15
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I just noticed how many locked threads there are, and i'm just thinking...it's really odd, if you go back a few years there are barely any locked threads. But now, a lot of threads seem to end up locked. Not blaming the mods, i know it's their job to watch over the forums and lock bad threads. wondering, why are there more of those threads now, when before everyone was new, but now, a lot of people have been here for a while. I'd expect less locked threads.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 17th May 2010 23:15 Edited at: 18th May 2010 00:29
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Probably the influx of new users from the FPSC section.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 18th May 2010 00:22
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I blame Raving in a Utopia

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2010 00:32
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And I question whether certain users have the ability to detect humour, or are offended too easily. Probably is an influx of new users, generally I've thought this place to be quite relaxed, so, I don't think it's all that flamey, but of course, a member throws a hissy fit every so often, but hasn't it always been that way on any forum?

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thenerd
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Posted: 18th May 2010 00:37
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yeah, but it seems like more and more threads have either been about pointless things or end up in a flame war and getting locked.

Quote: "I blame Raving in a Utopia "
lol...

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KeithC
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Posted: 18th May 2010 00:40
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Some of it has to do with more Mods on scene, and some of it is strictly because some members feel the need to start threads that they know will lead to flaming.

Sometimes when I am at work I think to myself: "I wonder why there are so many prisoners here..."

-Keith
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Lonnehart
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Posted: 18th May 2010 01:36
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Who knows? Oh, well... I'm glad the Mods are here to make sure the flames get put out FAST. I'd rather read forums like this than ones that have nothing but burning stuff in it...

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th May 2010 01:42
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I think it's because the recent purge of pointless threads has been relaxed - certain Mods need to sharpen up.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2010 02:00 Edited at: 18th May 2010 02:00
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Quote: "Sometimes when I am at work I think to myself: "I wonder why there are so many prisoners here...""


Don't you realise it? It's because you work there, I mean anybody would commit a crime just to be closer to you, Keith. I'd do the same, but alas, you don't work in any prisons local to me...even if I went over there and committed a crime, I'd be deported back to England. Obviously, there's just no hope...so instead, I'll continue to kiss your butt on the forums.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 18th May 2010 02:18
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LOL Sepp, you might get a get-off-of-postmod-free card for that.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 18th May 2010 02:36
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I really like debate, but there has been a lot of actual stupidity around here, just posting memes and multiple threads for questions that easy be googled.

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xplosys
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Posted: 18th May 2010 05:24
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Isn't this the pointless section?

Being "offended" seems to be a growing trend these days.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 18th May 2010 08:06
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Quote: "Being "offended" seems to be a growing trend these days."



How DARE you say such things! I take great offense at that statement!



Just kidding.


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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 18th May 2010 08:17
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Quote: "wondering, why are there more of those threads now"

Wow, you WOULD ask that.


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ShaunRW
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Posted: 18th May 2010 11:26
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Quote: "Isn't this the pointless section?"

No, this is the off-topic section.

Where we talk about general geeky things, not fight pointlessly.


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 18th May 2010 11:59
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In my opinion, the locking trend is about 50% lame oversensitive moderators and 50% juvenile Internet rebelliousness.

And it goes for the TGC community as a whole.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 18th May 2010 14:14
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In my opinion it's 101% lame oversensitive members and 347% mature Internet interactions between mutually respectful forum members.

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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charger bandit
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Posted: 18th May 2010 14:15
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It is the not very smart people who do not know that forums are same as real life. Then they start to annoy people thinking "I am on the other side of the world,no one can touch me". But those people don't realize they are talking with a human being like their mother or something.


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David R
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Posted: 18th May 2010 15:12 Edited at: 18th May 2010 15:13
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Quote: "In my opinion it's 101% lame oversensitive members"


This.

If you don't want to discuss something, don't post it. It boggles the mind when you see a post about something and then the OP says "LUL I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THAT PLZ"

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KeithC
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Posted: 18th May 2010 15:13 Edited at: 18th May 2010 15:15
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Quote: "...even if I went over there and committed a crime, I'd be deported back to England."

Actually; that's not entirely true. We have a Canadian citizen who decided to kill his wife in Michigan; he's doing life (natural life) in a U.S. Prison instead. We also have an Iraqi in our prison; though I'm not sure if he was in "legal status" and living with relatives in Detroit.

So; as you can see....you'd fit in here just fine.

Also; as my History Professor was fond of saying: "People who are easily offended, offend me."

-Keith
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That Guy John
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Posted: 18th May 2010 19:45
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Quote: "We also have an Iraqi in our prison"

Try dealing with several thousand of them, 6 tower gaurds per over watching approx. 450, and a QRF team of about 12 to repond to an uprising. Then again if it got too serious, non leathal rubber rounds were kind of fun. lol

ThatGuyJohn.com (personal blog)
PCGameDrops.com Something for your PC to chew on!(Launched May 15th, 2010. Developers please have a look, will be updated aggressively)
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lazerus
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Posted: 18th May 2010 19:50
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Sounds like you have a fun job TGJ

single shot or auto?


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Jeku
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Posted: 18th May 2010 20:38 Edited at: 18th May 2010 20:40
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Quote: "In my opinion, the locking trend is about 50% lame oversensitive moderators"


Care to give examples? It's one thing to hide behind your monitor and complain about something arbitrary, and another to actually give some examples. Obviously we'd like to know if we're doing a "lame" job.

There's a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes. We can click on a user's name and get what's essentially their entire history of mod comments, bans, and slaps, with reasons. If there's a major repeat offender we don't always feel it necessary to completely explain our actions to the entire forum. We'll just lock the thread and ban or slap.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2010 21:39
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Quote: "Actually; that's not entirely true. We have a Canadian citizen who decided to kill his wife in Michigan; he's doing life (natural life) in a U.S. Prison instead. We also have an Iraqi in our prison; though I'm not sure if he was in "legal status" and living with relatives in Detroit.

So; as you can see....you'd fit in here just fine."


It's almost as though you're trying to encourage me, I don't think your boss would be too pleased.

Quote: "Also; as my History Professor was fond of saying: "People who are easily offended, offend me.""


Good philosophy. Truth is, if you have an opinion, there's going to be somebody offended by it. The fact I like you Keith might offend some anarchists, after all, you represent the establishment (man!) but by the fact I dislike Canadians, it's likely to offend Jeku. There's no way of winning.

I've just got myself banned didn't I? Sorry Jeku, I was cheering on Norway for the Winter Olympics, it's only natural for there to be some dislike. Nothing personal.

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BearCDP
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Posted: 18th May 2010 21:55
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Seppuku, in the few months I spent away from these forums, your posts have seemed to transcend rational thought into a whole new level of enlightenment, incomprehensible to all but a few.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 18th May 2010 22:02
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I think the key word to your problem is "geek".

True geeks can't help but beat the crap out of each verbally.

Your signature was immature.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2010 22:05
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Quote: "
Seppuku, in the few months I spent away from these forums, your posts have seemed to transcend rational thought into a whole new level of enlightenment, incomprehensible to all but a few."


I'm not sure if that's a complement, but thank you anyway. Rational thought is so boring these days, it needs a bit of spicing up, bah, Plato and the likes are so old skool.

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lazerus
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Posted: 18th May 2010 22:13
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Quick while the mods arent here!



Take it an do what you must!




http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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thenerd
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Posted: 18th May 2010 22:28
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nom. I like cookies, although i've got a question...do they really count as a dessert? because I don't think so, they're way too small to be one.

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BearCDP
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Posted: 18th May 2010 23:01
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Quote: "I'm not sure if that's a complement, but thank you anyway. Rational thought is so boring these days, it needs a bit of spicing up, bah, Plato and the likes are so old skool."


You can indeed take it as a compliment. To hell with rationality!

But I must say, locking threads just because somebody posted a meme is uncalled for. I'm speaking mainly about the "I accidentally . . ." thread. Yes, I can see the desire to not let the forum degrade into useless jabber, but it was just a little bit of fun.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
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David R
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Posted: 18th May 2010 23:19
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Quote: ". I'm speaking mainly about the "I accidentally . . ." thread. "


I can see the logic in locking that one though

a) The thread was only the meme. There was nothing else to it
b) They used the meme for something patently unfunny. Silica Gel + "I accidentally" doesn't really work

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 19th May 2010 05:18
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iv'e gotten to the point that i don't really care anymore, i just keep to myself and just play my PS3, Model on blender, and Practice on DBPro, if i have a problem i talk to my family or something unless i'm having a problem with blender, PS3, or DBpro then i come to you guys

Google.com. Nuff Said
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 10:53 Edited at: 19th May 2010 11:00
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Quote: "Care to give examples? It's one thing to hide behind your monitor and complain about something arbitrary, and another to actually give some examples. Obviously we'd like to know if we're doing a "lame" job."


The only personal example I have was my own Blender as Editor thread I started in the 3D section. Locked down with some kind of motivation that we could discuss Python elsewhere.

It's just that, in my opinion, and I've left forums over discussions like these, it's about discussing. If people happen to discuss tomatoes in an apple forum, let them! It's all for the sake of discussion, and most missteps are slight.

Moderation should be about enforcing rules, not about nitpicking. So when an offensive post or an "I'm making a 1337 MMO, like WOW" thread is locked, I'm all for it. But whenever discussions are aborted, I'm annoyed.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2010 12:22
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For the most part I think the moderators do a fine job, no one is perfect after all.

Quote: "The only personal example I have was my own Blender as Editor thread I started in the 3D section. Locked down with some kind of motivation that we could discuss Python elsewhere."


Ah yeah, the same guy that locked the "Criticisms of DBPro" thread after most of the moderators decided to troll it (well, from my point of view they were, I'm sure they'll disagree ).
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 12:42
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I wanted to take part in that discussion, but I saw it, made a mental note and came back to find it locked.

That's the kind of thing that annoys me, anyway. Discussions are about opinions and everyone has one and needs to respect that others also have them.

Overgeneralized, but true.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2010 13:04
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I think that's one of the main problems here, opinions often aren't respected and criticism is taken personally. I'm not talking about the moderators specifically, but the community as a whole.

I personally think criticism is very important, between users/users, users/moderators, and moderators/moderators. If I'm being an ass I'd rather a moderator told me straight away. It should work both ways though, if a user thinks a moderator is being an ass he should probably say so. Of course, not everyone will agree with it as it's subjective, but it's important to note the opinions and others in order to re-evaluate your behaviour and think about whether it was acceptable.

I could probably come up with a list of actions that the moderators have taken that I don't like, as well as actions that I think were good decisions. Of course, the former would only have a few instances since as I said before, I think the moderators for the most part do a good job, and they make these forums a damn sight better than some others I've been on. Nonetheless I think we should be allowed to criticize them, not in a derogatory way but in order to make them analyse themselves. Not necessarily for the benefit of users, but the benefit of the moderators themselves.
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Van B
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Posted: 19th May 2010 13:34
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Quote: "The only personal example I have was my own Blender as Editor thread I started in the 3D section. Locked down with some kind of motivation that we could discuss Python elsewhere.
"


Yeah, I locked a thread in 3D Discussion that transcended into a discussion about Python, with your last post mentioning how crappy GDK 'is'. If you can't see why that thread was locked, I would like to casually introduce you to the AUP. There are sections provided for discussing other languages, this is TGC's forum, for TGC's products. If people can't understand that, then their posts will continue to get locked.

Frankly if you don't use TGC's products, don't come here and slag them off. Wasn't this thread about a lapse in moderation in Geek Culture, but here we are, discussing the topic that you two decide is relevant - over moderation. I would lock this thread but that would be far too ironic.


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David R
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Posted: 19th May 2010 13:49 Edited at: 19th May 2010 14:05
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Quote: "[If you can't see why that thread was locked, I would like to casually introduce you to the AUP. There are sections provided for discussing other languages, this is TGC's forum, for TGC's products. If people can't understand that, then their posts will continue to get locked.

Frankly if you don't use TGC's products, don't come here and slag them off
"


See, I agree that that lock is a bit messed up too if that's the justification for it. I get that this is TGCs forum, provided by TGC itself - but last time I looked the AUP was not in place as a form of censorship to prevent critique of their products.

Not to mention the fact that Python is pretty darn topical if the thread was about Blender

But also: If the AUP is explicitly designed to prevent us from criticising the products, why does this forum even exist? The products are perfect and we shouldn't need any assistance in using them, right?

I think my point is, taking away the ability to criticise freely (within reason) makes the community go down the tubes. If we can't express decent opinions of our flaws in product [x] (and how we work around them and whatnot) then why bother? What's next on the chopping block, the ability to mention other languages at all?

Quote: "Wasn't this thread about a lapse in moderation in Geek Culture, but here we are, discussing the topic that you two decide is relevant "


Moving from one topic to another completely related topic is lock worthy? What?

I think this perfectly demonstrates the overreactive nature of the current moderation - two completely tame "Here is what I think related to XYZ" posts on a topic directly connected to the topic of the thread, without personal attacks or any unpleasant content what-so-ever, immediately elicit a lock threat.

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 14:30
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Van B: I think your speaking about locking this thread is ironic enough, quite honestly.

I was most definitely badly nuanced in my critique in that 3D post. Definitely. It was one sentence of very recent frustration when I wrote it.

But should that be enough to get it locked?

David R: I agree with you 100%. Either we can use these forums to discuss, to help each other and to let the makers of these products know what we think, or there's no point in having them.

Sort of.
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Van B
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Posted: 19th May 2010 15:12
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Quote: "Not to mention the fact that Python is pretty darn topical if the thread was about Blender"


The thread was about Blender as an EDITOR - not an engine.

Quote: "I think my point is, taking away the ability to criticise freely (within reason) makes the community go down the tubes."


The last post in that thread said something like 'GDK is just too crappy for me' - is that a reasonable critique?, something we should promote and encourage here? - that was from the originator of the thread, with that mindset why on earth would any moderator leave that thread open.

The DBPro crticism thread went on for 8 pages, and was just a soap box by the time it got locked. You must have missed the pages at the start where all the usefull stuff was discussed, then it just spiralled out of sensible discussion.

Quote: "Either we can use these forums to discuss, to help each other and to let the makers of these products know what we think, or there's no point in having them."


Discuss what exactly? - if you want to discuss TGC products then this is the place, if you want to post mindless, useless critique, then go somewhere else. If you want to post a conceived and educated critique, like DarkCoder did, then don't expect it to stay useful beyond page 2. Locking that thread on page 8 was the humane thing to do. Locking that Blender thread was the appropriate thing to do.


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 15:23 Edited at: 19th May 2010 15:29
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There's a place for the mindlessly useless, too! It has feelings, values; kids to feed...

No, seriously, I can admit that the comment was useless. But the thread itself was highly valid. I used Blender as an editor in a GDK project. This is related to Blender, to 3D AND to a TGC product all in one.

So it bears to ask whether an entire thread can be judged from a single comment?

My opinion is that locking it was way too rash. As long as people can stay away from stuff that is explicitly against the rules, there should be enough space for some live and let live.

That's just one example, however. Locking just feels very censorial, as someone pointed out elsewhere in this thread.
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Van B
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Posted: 19th May 2010 15:57
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Quote: "So it bears to ask whether an entire thread can be judged from a single comment?"


When that post is made by the originator, then yes! - this is what you wrote (sorry to dig this up again)...

Quote: "I'm moving over to another DX wrapper, however, as the GDK is simply too crappy for my tastes."


You posted that in 3D Chat, not 'Other Progamming Languages' - the truth is that if you posted it in the 'Others' section, it wouldn't have been locked - in fact nobody would have found it, but that's besides the point. The thread was titled 'Blender as an editor' or something along those lines, and inside they find that your using blender as an editor for another engine - people want to read about how your using that for FPSC or DB, if it doesn't have that information then its far less relevant, in fact it's probably just a little annoying to find a comment like that.

But none of this is helping anything - lets get back on topic. What was the topic again?


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David R
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Posted: 19th May 2010 16:02 Edited at: 19th May 2010 16:07
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Quote: "he thread was about Blender as an EDITOR - not an engine."


Large portions of Blender are written in Python (base + scripting/macros + plugins as well as how you import and export meshes etc.) so it is still very much relevant.

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 17:43 Edited at: 19th May 2010 17:57
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I know what I said. And it was admittedly a very biased and poorly nuanced statement. But I still don't think it's offensive enough to lock the thread.

Besides, the entire editor logic was done in Python, why I think Python was madly relevant for the topic itself.

We can agree to disagree, Van B. Whatever I said I'd do, the reality is that the only things I showed in the thread were done using GDK + Blender and it's a thread that I had gladly continued.

Feels like this is the US Senate and someone just said the N-word.

No matter. Moderation is important, but what I wanted to exemplify by mentioning that thread is that the level of moderation on this site can be a bit extreme.
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KeithC
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Posted: 19th May 2010 18:31
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Quote: "Try dealing with several thousand of them, 6 tower gaurds per over watching approx. 450, and a QRF team of about 12 to repond to an uprising. Then again if it got too serious, non leathal rubber rounds were kind of fun. lol"

We have well over 2,000 at ours; with only 2 towers and one Security Vehicle, with a single guard in it. We carry a radio, keys and cuffs on us when inside. I walk basically shoulder to shoulder with the inmates, as there is no real way to lock them down in my facility. If they want to kill one of us, they can do it; and since Michigan doesn't have a death penalty...the lifers (natural life) have nothing to lose. I would love to work in a military facility!

When I was in Iraq, we didn't have any of the "amenities" that you have now, such as armored vehicles, or proper body armor (flak vests just don't cut it....especially ones that have been used/sitting around for years).

-Keith
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Jeku
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Posted: 19th May 2010 19:53 Edited at: 19th May 2010 19:56
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Quote: "The only personal example I have was my own Blender as Editor thread I started in the 3D section. Locked down with some kind of motivation that we could discuss Python elsewhere."


You gave a single example, but stated the lame locking my mods is at 50%. Any others? I don't venture into the 3D chat board so I don't have any information on the Blender thread. Van B summed it up though.

Quote: "Nonetheless I think we should be allowed to criticize them, not in a derogatory way but in order to make them analyse themselves."


I haven't seen any mod take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to heart and lock a thread or ban a user.

From what I've seen of you, Benjamin, you are one of the more negative and biting users on this forum. While you may be constructively critiquing some of the time, I could hardly describe you as one of the members that aren't derogatory Practice what you preach.

Quote: "I know what I said. And it was admittedly a very biased and poorly nuanced statement. But I still don't think it's offensive enough to lock the thread."


That sentence is plain flamebait, and I would have locked the thread too.

We've had a lot more people say the mods are doing a good job cleaning up the place rather than dragging it down. We are human, not AI, and we make mistakes too. From my experience, I'll always give someone the benefit of the doubt and warn them before slapping or banning, especially if their record is clean. If their record shows that they've had 6 bans and 8 slaps, then I won't hesitate to bring down the hammer


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BearCDP
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Posted: 19th May 2010 21:32 Edited at: 19th May 2010 21:45
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[Edit] Whoops, missed a whole page.

It seems as though there's been a combination of more stupidity in posts and simultaneously harsher moderation to compensate for that.

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th May 2010 22:16 Edited at: 19th May 2010 22:23
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Quote: "That sentence is plain flamebait, and I would have locked the thread too."


And you base this on:

Quote: "Van B summed it up though."
?

Interesting. But seriously, I don't want to turn this into a moderators vs ento something. I'm all for moderation, as long as it doesn't get extreme. And generally, I think everything should be allowed as long as it doesn't break the rules.

But that's just my opinion.
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th May 2010 22:45
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GC is relatively nice compared to other boards I frequent. The reasons I see it get flamey here are because of the "How i mine 4 fish?" posts and other acts of immaturity. It's expected though, I mean, there are a lot of adults who frequent TGC including myself. But there are also a lot of aspiring game devs here as well. I think TGC is unique in this way from a lot of other boards because there's such a vast age difference. Sometimes the older crowd can lose their patience as well!

Overall, the mods do a good job at cracking down on the BS. The AUP is also well written and I like that the mods reference it when they lock nine times out of ten so that people see it's a violation of the AUP and not just the moderator.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2010 23:43
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Quote: "From what I've seen of you, Benjamin, you are one of the more negative and biting users on this forum."


I and many others completely disagree, but nonetheless I will take your opinion on board since as a moderator you are one of the pillars of this community.
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