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Geek Culture / New Apple Products

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AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 04:02
Not sure if there's already a thread on this, but the new Apple products look awesome. The 4th-gen iPod Touch now features just about everything the iPhone 4 has, minus the phone. That includes a camera, HD video recording, iOS 4, an awesome 960 x 640 display, an improved processor and more. The new iPod Nano looks awesome too.



I'm thinking it's time to upgrade my iPod.

i like orange
Lemonade
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 04:50
Why does the new iPod Nano need multi-touch?!

I'm not a fan of Apple's business model, but I do have to say that the iPod touch is pretty tempting. If the current gen iTouch or the ZuneHD would only reach the $99 sweet spot...

Hockeykid
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 04:59
Is there a picture of the new Ipod Touch? The new nano looks to much like the shuffle. The real issue I see with it is how small it is, it could be easily lost but also now that its touch screen probably a bit more easy to break (lose it and accidentally step on it while looking around for it, etc).

Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 07:38
i dont see the point.

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 12:44
So what's the major difference between an iPhone4 and the other 3 iPhones?


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
The Next
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 14:54
Quote: "So what's the major difference between an iPhone4 and the other 3 iPhones?"


Nothing. Its another piece over hyped up junk. You can beat an iPhone easily, get an Andriod phone such as the HTC Desire.

Apple just can't help themselves. Let me guess it will be another £200+ that we don't need to spend for something you can get in a cheaper device. Fancy case, "oh big deal" as if that's going to effect your music listening... For sure it will effect your pocket.

Why do i want touch screen on something that small it defeats the whole point. Apples business model is obviously target the dumbies that can't tell when we have just put a new case and fancy toucxh around a product we have been selling for 10 years.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
Windows 7 Pro, Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8Ghz, 4GB DDR3, Dual nvidia SLI 9800GT 1GB, 1.5TB Hard disk
Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 15:08
I just want my phone to.. ring people. Texting is a bonus.

This is why my phones cost £20 or less.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 15:55
Quote: "I just want my phone to.. ring people. Texting is a bonus.

This is why my phones cost £20 or less."


And Thats why i have had my samsung for three years, with a broken camera ;D

David R
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:02 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 17:03
Quote: ". You can beat an iPhone easily, get an Andriod phone such as the HTC Desire."


You still don't get it, do you? Normal people don't care about the hardware or the OS. They want something slick that does what they need it to without them having to think

Unfortunately your characterisation of 'dumbies' is pretty much 99% of the non-tech-savvy public. As far as they're concerned the phone and the software it runs are one and the same (which is why they also don't cotton on to the marketing ploy whereby new features are artificially restricted to the newer models)

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:12 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 17:26
Quote: "So what's the major difference between an iPhone4 and the other 3 iPhones?"


So what's the relevance of that statement to this thread?

This thread isn't about iPhones people . The new iPod Touch, however, is absolutely an improvement over the last model in many ways--you cannot claim that they're simply giving it a new case and calling it a new product. And it's even more of an improvement over my 1st-gen 8GB iPod Touch.

Quote: "Why does the new iPod Nano need multi-touch?!"


Hey, I didn't say it was practical it is Apple, after all. But I do like the way it looks.

i like orange
Van B
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:24
Some people see the word Apple in a thread, and their little hate cups full of hate overflow - whether it's relevant or not.

The touch is getting quadruple the resolution, mic and camera which is kinda needed anyway, and should be faster. Personally, I think the only people entitled to be annoyed are people writing apps - but then this does mean that the touch and iPhone will be on the same playing field - right now you have to make sure an app is compatible with the touch, that'll be less of a problem. For me, the resolution is already good enough - OpenGLES (the main graphics engine used in iPhone apps) has really great scaling and anti-aliasing - it already looks great, I don't think the resolution necesserily needed to improve for a device that size.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:28 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 17:28
I'm pretty sure it's relevance is due to the fact that you called this thread "New Apple Products"


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:32
Quote: "I'm pretty sure it's relevance is due to the fact that you called this thread "New Apple Products""


By "new" I was referring to the Apple media event yesterday, at which they released a new iPod Touch, iPod Nano, and Apple TV. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

i like orange
Eminent
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 17:44
The iPod, The iPad, next the iBoard, then the iMat, and finally the iFootBallField.


Uncle Sam
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 18:23 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 18:23
Looks cook, but I use a $20 Sansa Clip mp3 player and it suits me fine...any mp3 player with features like this is only for the wow-factor and not for practical use. The Sansa is so small it makes it incredibly practical.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 18:54
Quote: "Some people see the word Apple in a thread, and their little hate cups full of hate overflow - whether it's relevant or not."


But it's funny watching how much a person erupts. Slip in lines like, "buy an iPod", "a Mac is good for this" or "the iPad is really cool" and watch their reactions.


However, I might be tempted by the new iPod Touch myself, if it's essentially an iPhone without the phoning and texting capabilities, then I'd be happy with one, after all the reason why I'm attracted to buying a smartphone is that I'd find the extra features convenient. My Motorola is fine, so I don't really need to invest in a smartphone. I do, however, need a new Mp3 player.

Click!
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:05
I'm thinkin' I'm gonna have to get myself one of these here iPod Touches.

They sound pretty amazing.

Click here to go to my blog!
Eminent
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:16
I have an iTouch. I never use it much anymore. Its pretty boring.


Ocho Geek
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:36 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 19:36
I recently had a PCvMac revelation, no reason why. I still side on PCs because of the better gaming support (because I use PC for gaming) but all of Apples products are pretty good, I just hate the people that cling to the apple badge as their last hope of looking acceptable in society

I like talking to myself sometimes

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:38
I'm not sure I ever got the concept of a mac. You're paying more for something that isn't as good or upgradeable?

Anyway, I don't need any of this iPod business. £20 mp3 player + 2gb SD Card = all set.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
Ocho Geek
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:46
aah, didn't check the price, back tp hating

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David R
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:47 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 19:51
Quote: "I'm not sure I ever got the concept of a mac. You're paying more for something that isn't as good or upgradeable?"


Isn't as good? How? Or are you just fixating on hardware specs?

If you hadn't noticed by now, Apple's 'angle' is adding value via the software, not the raw specs of the hardware. Almost all of their devices are underspec'd vs. their competitors, and yet they still manage to kick the crap out of them (and I don't mean in sales, I mean in how good the device is as a whole). It's the 'worse is better' mentality - or more specifically, why do a million and one things poorly, when you can pick a subset of features and do them really really well? That's what Apple does - fewer features, lesser specs, but the features they do offer are polished to a mirror shine

+ I'd settle for an underpowered OS X machine vs. a souped up Vista or Win7 machine any day.

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Libervurto
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:52 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 19:57
Quote: "Some people see the word Apple in a thread, and their little hate cups full of hate overflow - whether it's relevant or not."

I was thinking there was a new form of apple pie on the market.
Apple PiePhone mmmmmm or PiPhone for mathematicians. I'm sure there's something like that already on the interwebs...


nothing


I don't get haters, apple have really nice software and the design of all their products is stylish. Phones and mp3 players have become fashion accessories so style is obviously important. The masses don't care whether they can upgrade things, they probably don't even know this is possible to do with a PC. They don't mind paying another $200 for the latest version because we are in the debt generation where everyone is stupid with money.
Apple are cashing in on what is their golden age, this can't last forever.
If you don't like it then don't buy it.

Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 19:55
Quote: "+ I'd settle for an underpowered OS X machine vs. a souped up Vista or Win7 machine any day."





I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
David R
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:00 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 20:01
Quote: ""


I'm guessing you don't understand that because (judging by your sig) you're a gamer - well I'm not. I couldn't care less about the brute power of a machine. A healthy CPU speed to compile code and enough RAM to multitask and I'm happy. I'd rather have that and a fantastic OS than amazing specs crippled by an irritating and cumbersome OS

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:14 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 20:15
Quote: "I'd rather have that and a fantastic OS than amazing specs crippled by an irritating and cumbersome OS"

I wouldn't consider Windows 7 either of those...

I think Apple products are overly simplistic and almost completely lacking customization (you can be intuitive/simple and customizable at the same time-look at almost anything Google makes), overpriced, and I don't like the "I'm cooler/better than you" attitude they and many of their users seem to have. They do make some pretty things and their products are stable, but that's not very hard to do when the only compatibility you have to deal with is your own products.

(Shameless plug: If you want to read more about why I don't like Apple, check out my recent blog post on it)


Eminent
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:32
Yeah, I hate Apple for their closed sourced stuff. If you get an iPhone then you have to use AT&T unless you unlock.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:36
just to add insult to injury, I'm typing this on my dad's iPod touch. It's pretty groovy. :p

Click!
Slow Programmer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:44
Quote: "I'm not sure I ever got the concept of a mac. You're paying more for something that isn't as good or upgradeable?"


Having used both I feel Macs better by being more stable. My Macs do not crash. On the upgrade issue though. I have changed many iMac hard drives and find it as easy as on a PC. Apples come with instructions for the user on how to upgrade memory and your warranty is not voided when you do. Try opening the case on a Gateway to upgrade memory and see if your warranty is still valid. CPUs can be replaced on Macs without much effort. The only part I think would be an issue is the GPU.
Ocho Geek
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:44
I am quite pleased with how google has used magic to make android a business witout pestering the user

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BearCDP
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 20:57 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 20:59
Apple defenders unite!



Quote: "I'm not sure I ever got the concept of a mac. You're paying more for something that isn't as good or upgradeable?"


This is an ignorant statement. Take the time to educate yourself. Just upgraded my Macbook Pro's RAM this week, and last year upgraded from the factory 160GB drive to a Seagate 500GB. If you are a true computer geek and not just someone who knows a lot of Windows tricks, you can upgrade/customize/script/generally manhandle and mangle anything.

In anticipation of a rebuttal:
Quote: "Well, you can't upgrade the graphics card [or sound card or RAID controller or add any PCI cards, etc.]."


Same thing goes for 99% of other non-Apple laptops. Also yes, you can't upgrade much on the iMac either. But, have you heard of the HP Mini? Same concept as the iMac. It's to cater to people who don't care about their specs and would like to save some space around their computer desk. There's little point in allowing them to upgrade anything besides the hard drive and memory. And yes, in case you were wondering, HP Minis are a pain in the butt to take apart. If you get a Mac Pro, you can upgrade all the things mentioned above. Hackintoshes would not exist if this was not true.



People who bash Apple are silly. If you are a tech savvy person who likes to tweak a lot of things you are probably better suited getting an Android or WP7 phone. When I finally have the income to get a data plan, my phone of choice will be one of those two.

However, I had an iPod touch, and I loved it (sadly, it was rather old and a hand-me-down from a less than caring owner, so it died). Many people have iPod docks, so it's useful to have an iPod at parties. It's a bonus for me that I get smart phone features without having to actually have a smart phone. I have my gmail account as an email hub where my public, school, and personal addresses forward/pop3 to. Then, it's IMAP-synced among the iPod touch, Thunderbird on OS X, and Evolution on Ubuntu Studio. I'd set up Windows Mail or Thunderbird on my Win7 partition, but when I'm in Windows I'm either gaming or coding so I'm usually connected to the net and able to log in to gmail anyway.

Furthermore, I spent the $3 to get the GeeTasks app that is able to sync on and offline with my Google Tasks. I've found this immensely helpful for managing projects and todo lists. There's probably an Android app that's cheaper or free. That's cool, when I get an Android phone I'll probably download that.


Most operating systems do most anything the others do. The difference is how much you have to monkey with it to get it to work. And, Mac and Windows (especially with the lovely Windows 7) generally require little monkeying to get basic things done in comparison to Linux or BSD distributions.

Get over yourselves and become a pro at everything. Then love yourself because you will be awesome--teh ubergeek.



On Topic:
I want one! Well not the Nano really, but that was a smart move to give the Nano a touch screen. It's what most people have since it's "cute", or they're scared of something beefier.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
David R
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 21:55 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 00:02
Quote: "I wouldn't consider Windows 7 either of those..."


Not in a UI sense, sure - but under the hood. All the Unices are generally pretty 'clean' and peering at the file structure + processes OS X appears the same. Win on the other hand has matured nicely but it has been bogged down by layers and layers of new technologies and all the extra work it takes to stay compatible with them - not to mention the registry. I think if you're comparing any Unix-like OS against Windows, Windows will always lose solely based on the registry, an idea that is not only stupid, it is horribly executed.

But more than all that - despite what you say about lack of customisation (which is true to an extent) OS X can be 'probed' much more easily than Windows can. It has a proper system-wide log, a kernel you can actually query for data and a true diagnostic + command line startup. When it starts it just feels leaner (and I 'trust' it more) because I have some understanding of each step it takes (having seen dmesg output etc.). Windows hides that all behind the scenes - I don't think there even is a dmesg equivalent on Windows is there? But that, in itself, is enough for me to dislike it. It hides the data it spits out as if it has something to hide - something to hide which I'm guessing is probably a hacky disgusting underbelly.

Oh, and the OS X terminal is actually usable. Windows' command prompt is the most useless pile of crap in existence

Quote: "
I think Apple products are overly simplistic and almost completely lacking customization (you can be intuitive/simple and customizable at the same time-look at almost anything Google makes), "


If we're still on OS X and Windows, I'd say OS X is no more or no less customisable than Windows is. Which is pretty stupid actually - you do bring a good point because if MS had any sense they'd make Win. insanely customisable as their marketing point against Apple. As it is, they're both pretty screwy at customisation (they're both easy to customise but nothing too radical without applications to help)

Quote: "(Shameless plug: If you want to read more about why I don't like Apple, check out my recent blog post on it)"


You lose all credibility when you do things like this:

Quote: " In Android there are many ways to do nearly everything. Not so with the iPhone, that might confuse their users."


^ That is a non-argument. It just seems as if you're trying to find justification to vent/rant rather than rationally comparing

Quote: "Unfortunately for the iPhone, it's completely closed source, meaning the OS will probably suck forever."


Do your research . The kernel is FOSS, the build tools are FOSS, and Apple sponsor LLVM + Clang (as well as starting the LLDB project, forking WebKit from Konqueor etc.). Saying their OS (or their toolchain for that matter) is entirely closed source is a shining beacon that you have no idea what you're talking about

I don't own an iPhone so I can't contest the other points - but if you rely as heavily on insulting the user-base rather than making actual comparisons for the rest of your post, then it is equally worthless. Do an objective review or don't bother - we have enough heavily biased trash on the net already

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Melancholic
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 22:24
Im not going to say mac or pc is better. But there is one argument i see used frequently which really ticks me off.

Well, its not really an argument, its a comparison. I saw this post

Quote: "Apples come with instructions for the user on how to upgrade memory and your warranty is not voided when you do. Try opening the case on a Gateway to upgrade memory and see if your warranty is still valid"


You cannot compare Apple computers with PC's based on one company!.

Also, to all the mac users, you wonder why you have a bad name?, just watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9RAiIc8_s or pretty much any video by him


I can count to banana...
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 22:45
^^People should realise by that fanboys are douches. That's one thing I dislike hearing from people, "I hate Apple users", because they've encountered fanboys, it's hardly something something to generalise about, every company a geek can get excited about has fanboys and even calm and peace-loving guys like me want to punch them in the mouth. Like all people that like talking about how great their 'product' is in comparison to everything else, whether it's cars, computer games or computers, have on thing on common. They're over compensating for something.

Personally, chavs, fanboys and idiots like them all should be put on an Island somewhere and for us to allow parliament to pass a BR Act (Battle Royale), with only one policy changed...shoot the survivor.

Click!
Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 23:47 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 23:54





Quote: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9RAiIc8_s"
I agree with that, and all the mac vs pc adds... Ive had a pc way back since prolly windows 95, i havnt had a blue screen at least in the past 10 years...

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
Aaagreen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 23:48
Stoke me a Clipper, I'll be back for Christmas.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 23:49 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 00:09
Quote: "Also, to all the mac users, you wonder why you have a bad name?, just watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9RAiIc8_s or pretty much any video by him"


Thats a really stupid argument. That would be like me saying that this guy is American, therefore all Americans are stupid hicks.


What stupid fanboys fail to realise is that things like iPhone OS and Android, Mac OSX and Windows and Xbox's and Playstations are just the same thing with a different name.
There are minor differences, but at the end of the day its just down to personal preference:

- The minor difference that would make me buy an Android phone over an iPhone is that the Android is written in Java and I would probably one day want to mess around with it.

- I bought an Xbox 360 before I bought a PS3 because my friends were getting an Xbox 360

- I use Windows because I was brought up with it.


If I was stuck with Mac OSX, an iPhone and a PS3, I wouldn't gouge my eyes out and jump on a spike. I would be like... meh.... same thing really (because they are).

Arguments like this always come down to really stupid differences aswell. The Mac has a dock, iPhones are too simplistic, The PS3 has 7 cores, Windows runs on Dos rather than Unix.
And its these differences which at the end of the day don't really matter.

If you need Unix, fine get a Mac. If you want to play games... get Windows. This whole fanboy thing is getting a bit tiresome.
Its like Technology racism... There is no rational explination to why you hate a product, you just hate it anyway.


(I typed this message on my MacBook pro running Windows 7)

Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 23:55 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2010 23:55
Quote: "Stoke me a Clipper, I'll be back for Christmas."

SHH i am really Ace Rimmer!

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 00:15
Quote: "You lose all credibility when you do things like this:

Quote: " In Android there are many ways to do nearly everything. Not so with the iPhone, that might confuse their users."

^ That is a non-argument. It just seems as if you're trying to find justification to vent/rant rather than rationally comparing"

I'm confused by what you mean? It's a non-argument because I made a joke (maybe that was taken more harshly than I meant it) insulting iPhone users? Or because I didn't provide a specific example in that sentence?

Quote: "
Quote: "Unfortunately for the iPhone, it's completely closed source, meaning the OS will probably suck forever."

This loses all credibility. Do your research "

I don't understand exactly what that is, are those iPhone SDK files? Because most things I've read say it's a completely closed source system that is only modified by Apple for Apple. Of course anyone can develop apps for it, but there's a difference in the SDK for the OS being open source, and the OS itself being open source.

I realize that many (even most) Apple users don't fit the stereotype, but I think it's partly Apple's fault because their marketing portrays them in that way. I'm definitely not a fanboy of any particular brand, but Apple fanboys are just the one's that annoy me the most (not that anyone here is one) .


David R
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 01:52
Quote: "I'm confused by what you mean? It's a non-argument because I made a joke (maybe that was taken more harshly than I meant it) insulting iPhone users? Or because I didn't provide a specific example in that sentence?
"


OK, better wording: It's a cheap shot. It's a difference you've found that you have no explanation for, so rather than weigh up the pros and cons (or maybe look for an explanation from Apple's UX / HI guidelines) you insult the user base. It's a dreadful way to compare anything.

Quote: "I don't understand exactly what that is, are those iPhone SDK files? Because most things I've read say it's a completely closed source system that is only modified by Apple for Apple. Of course anyone can develop apps for it, but there's a difference in the SDK for the OS being open source, and the OS itself being open source."


Apple's interface and applications are closed source - but pretty much the rest of the OS is open source and is composed of tons of open source projects (all of which are acknowledged and source is provided). Same for OS X (hence the Darwin kernel)

Sure, it's a closed platform but it isn't closed source (certainly not entirely)

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 02:14
Quote: "Unices"




The iPod Touch's and iPhones have a UI that is decades more advanced than their competitors. I have an iPad for development, and even though it may be underpowered, the UI is second to none. That is my only compliment for these Apple products.


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
Lemonade
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 03:22
Quote: " If you are a true computer geek and not just someone who knows a lot of Windows tricks, you can upgrade/customize/script/generally manhandle and mangle anything.
"


I thought Mac OS is for 'simple' minded people? If that's true, why would you, a self-acclaimed computer geek, want to use it?

Get rid of Steve Jobs and I'd like Apple products a whole lot better.

Gil Galvanti
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Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 03:59 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 03:59
Quote: "OK, better wording: It's a cheap shot. It's a difference you've found that you have no explanation for, so rather than weigh up the pros and cons (or maybe look for an explanation from Apple's UX / HI guidelines) you insult the user base. It's a dreadful way to compare anything."

Ah, I think I see what you mean-that having more ways to do things isn't necessarily better, I just assumed it was and instead insulted the userbase. Fair point, I should have addressed why I believe more options are better, although the insult was just a joke, maybe I should have included a smiley face after it to show it was a joke?

Quote: "Apple's interface and applications are closed source - but pretty much the rest of the OS is open source and is composed of tons of open source projects (all of which are acknowledged and source is provided). Same for OS X (hence the Darwin kernel)

Sure, it's a closed platform but it isn't closed source (certainly not entirely)"

Yeah, I'll admit I'm not aware of the technical details of it all, so perhaps I should've chosen my wording more carefully, but the point I was trying to make still stands (that Apple products, in this instance iOS, is a closed platform whereas Android is open) .

Quote: "Get rid of Steve Jobs and I'd like Apple products a whole lot better.
"

Agreed, he's one of the big things I dislike about the company, and as a CEO always in the spotlight he sort of represents and personifies the company as a whole for me.


BearCDP
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Location: NYC
Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 04:14 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 04:17
Quote: "I thought Mac OS is for 'simple' minded people? If that's true, why would you, a self-acclaimed computer geek, want to use it?"


The beauty of Mac OS X (not OS 9, et. al), is that it easily satisfies both the "simple-minded" and the tech savvy tweakhead.

My own reasons:

1. MacPorts - Automaticallly compiles, links and installs awesome *Nix command line tools and X11/Qt/GTK apps without sacrificing the friendly consumer-oriented GUI. It's true that many projects have Windows ports, but not all of them. Plus, having the code compiled on your own machine allows it to compile with configurations that are optimized for your system.

2. The Terminal
Command Prompt in Windows is just a heaping pile of fail. Windows should have had something like the bash shell a long time ago. Lucky for us, Vista and Win7 come with PowerShell. Does this contradict my argument? Why, no! Boot camp allows me to enjoy both bash and PowerShell equally.

3. Following that, because bash and other components of *nix are so well documented online, it's easy to learn how to do something like make a cron job that executes a shell script that runs Google Contact Sync once a day.

4. I wanted to learn Ruby this summer. Everyone's talking about it, so I found an online tutorial. Because Mac is *nix, I already had Ruby 1.8.6 installed on my system. Same went for Python 2.6. Turns out I had 64 bit Python2.6 installed (since I'm running Snow Leopard), which isn't compatible with wxPython. No problem, Apple put in an environment variable and a .plist preference that lets you specify to run Python2.6 in 32 or 64 bit mode.

5. Mac uses standard Unix line endings. I would like to know who at Microsoft decided it would be a good idea to use a 2-byte newline sequence. Notepad would be an amazing program if only it knew how to read Unix-style line endings. And, we wouldn't have to make special configurations on source control repos and their clients convert between LF and CRLF depending on who's checking what out.

Recently I was using PyDev with Eclipse on Windows, and because of this CRLF issue and a glitch in Eclipse's console, Python3.1's builtin input() command kept on reading the extra '\r' character and messing up the input logic. I had to manually override builtin.input() to return builtin.input().rstrip('\r').

Thank god for Notepad2.

6. Built-in virtual MIDI cable (it just works ). I'm a composer. Sometimes I'd like to spontaneously hook up Sibelius to Pro Tools to Logic to EastWest Play and send that out to my keyboard. The IAC Driver lets me do that, and it came with the operating system. Just try doing a clean install of a virtual driver on a Windows machine that's seen any sort of serious use. The process won't be nearly as smooth.

7. The Core Audio drivers rarely give me any latency issues. I have not had as much luck with ASIO/Digidesign DAE drivers on Windows. This is another "it just works" situation, but the fact that "it just works" gives me the freedom to do more geeky things with it.

8. I like Logic Pro. The Environment editor is really cool and really powerful. Logic Pro, being an Apple product, is not available on Windows.

9. It's pretty. I don't think it's wrong to like pretty things.



So you understand that I'm not a Mac fanboy, here's what's wrong with Mac:

1. The X11 icon shows up in the dock when you run an X11 application. Developers have to do special things to make their applications run without this.

2. iMovie sucks. Plain and simple. The 08 and 09 versions are particularly bad. Even iMovie HD 06 is not that great compared to Windows Movie Maker on XP.

3. In an ideal world, Apple would have no problem letting me install OS X on a computer I built myself.

4. XCode is a terrible, terrible thing.

Here's some stuff I like about Windows:

1. DarkBasic

2. Windows 7 window management is simply awesome. Mac beats XP because of Expose, but Win7 takes the cake.

3. DirectX

4. Visual Studio. I started using 2010 at work today and it's a dream come true.

5. Gaming. Even Mac fanboys admit it's not worth trying to game on Mac.

6. PowerShell


Windows and Mac OS are excellent operating systems, people need to draw a line and get over it. I use Win7 for some tasks and OS X for others. OS X is generally simplified for layman's use, but to lambast it and imply that it's underpowered or only for the computer illiterate is just a display of ignorance. You use your software, and I'll use mine. No need to insult me just because I belong to a particular userbase.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
Inspire
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Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 04:42
Quote: "Isn't as good? How? Or are you just fixating on hardware specs?

If you hadn't noticed by now, Apple's 'angle' is adding value via the software, not the raw specs of the hardware. Almost all of their devices are underspec'd vs. their competitors, and yet they still manage to kick the crap out of them (and I don't mean in sales, I mean in how good the device is as a whole). It's the 'worse is better' mentality - or more specifically, why do a million and one things poorly, when you can pick a subset of features and do them really really well? That's what Apple does - fewer features, lesser specs, but the features they do offer are polished to a mirror shine

+ I'd settle for an underpowered OS X machine vs. a souped up Vista or Win7 machine any day.
"


This, right here.

There's no need to blast Apple products as soon as they are mentioned. Same thing as if somebody brought up a Halo thread. People just can't contain themselves and start posting THT SUKZ UR ALL RONG as soon as they see those words. Chill out guys, you don't have to use it. I have both a Mac and a PC (dualbooted with windows and Linux), and I don't just starting slinging hate as soon as I see a pro-windows thread. My preference is Mac OS X, but I'm not gonna lie and tell you that Windows 7 isn't really nice.

Quote: "You use your software, and I'll use mine. No need to insult me just because I belong to a particular userbase."



^^^^^^

Lemonade
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 04:51 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 04:52
Quote: "+ I'd settle for an underpowered OS X machine vs. a souped up Vista or Win7 machine any day."


lol...despite the fact that the 'souped up' (AKA more powerful) Windows 7 machine costs hundreds less? You must not be a student with a limited budget.

Quote: "Agreed, he's one of the big things I dislike about the company, and as a CEO always in the spotlight he sort of represents and personifies the company as a whole for me."


Exactly. He won't even admit that the iPhone 4 has antenna problems, and yet he gives out free bumpers.

OrzeL
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 05:27 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 05:28
Quote: " You must not be a student with a limited budget.
"


I know, I'm going to Uni and don't get me wrong macs are nice just too pricey, a windows 7 machine has better specs and costs less and I don't really have have an OS preference. Windows 7 is more economical imo, well Linus is probably the most economic but I need to try it first so I'll probably dual boot it and see how it is, plus no stores that I know of really sell linux machines.

Quote: "Exactly. He won't even admit that the iPhone 4 has antenna problems, and yet he gives out free bumpers."


Lol i was thinking that too, I just assumed he acknowledged the problem somehow and thats when the bumpers came out.
Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 11:21
Quote: "I thought Mac OS is for 'simple' minded people?"


What a rediculous statement. This is the problem with the modern geek, they seem to think that it's the OS you use, or the phone you have, or the MP3 player you own... it's what you do with it that counts, not what skin you downloaded for it. If you have time to even worry about customisation never mind argue about it, then your not busy enough, should probably go and find a project to do.

I use my mac and my PC every day, and they both have their pro's and con's, but it's par the course in being a developer. You have to work around these things or just accept them, not get bogged down by them. What if you develop a strong game idea, and someone asks you to make an iPhone version?... Because that's the industry in the UK at least, and most probably other countries as well - there are dozens of small development houses, making apps, far more companies like that than companies making 'next gen' titles or even PC titles.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 12:06
I don't get people who hate a product because of other people and not the product itself. Morons become successful businessmen and morons buy good products. It's not automatically bad because the business is owned by a moron or is bought by morons. If this were the case, then there's more of a limit on how much you can buy.

Click!
The Next
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2010 13:20
Quote: "If you are a true computer geek and not just someone who knows a lot of Windows tricks, you can upgrade/customize/script/generally manhandle and mangle anything."


You should not have to manhandle or mangle anything. PC's should just work the fact that MAC's are so hard to upgrade makes them utterly useless to anyone doing serious computing of any type. I see MAC's as a designers computer only. For development you can't beat Linux or Windows.

The UI on Apple products is good yes but others are catching up the fact is that Apple concentrate too much on UI development and don't bother making something with any sort of power behind it.

That's about all i have to say i can see this thread getting very hot under the collar. I'm sure the die hard Apple fans will love to defend Steve Jobs. The guy that only does it for the money and sells products that honestly are not worth the price they are listed at.

Use Windows or Linux it stops early

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
Windows 7 Pro, Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8Ghz, 4GB DDR3, Dual nvidia SLI 9800GT 1GB, 1.5TB Hard disk

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