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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] North America vs. Europe

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 10:04
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Because I know there's a lot of Europeans on this forum, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what you have to say. This post comes from someone on a car forum I belong to.


Quote: "
Do you European types envy our North American Products like we do yours?

Over here, we drool over the finest French wines. Luxury chocolates come from Belgium or Switzerland. If you're not wearing a Swiss timepiece, you're just a wannabe. If you want to cruise around town in style, you're buying a European car. The most romantic date involves going to a fine Italian eatery. A special getaway involves a tour of Europe or the cruise the Mediterranean. The beaches of Monaco or Nice are hideouts for the wealthy. See where I'm going?

Does North America offer anything like that to you in the old world?
"


Some people pointed out that some california wines have beaten out french wines. That food is cheaper in the US, and we shouldn't complain about $3.50 gas prices.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 10:53
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Nerds, yanks and Aussies get them, Brits? Nu-uh, we used to years ago but the entire Wonka range is no longer sold in the UK.

We get Mountain Dew now, but it's not as good as the proper stuff, which you can't really buy in the UK, unless you know where to look (like some Chinese supermarkets)

There's probably a lot of cool things I've just not tried yet, I suppose you guys have Hollywood and amongst the crap that passes through there are some very good films, also some great TV shows too. I don't like all American humour, but there's some that appeals to me. Bill Hicks and Henry Rollins for example.

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Van B
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 11:04
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Not really . Brits at least tend not to think like that. We have the best of everything pretty much on our doorstep, I don't think I've ever envied any north American products. Maybe would help if you mentioned some - when I think of American products, there's only really cars, and there's only really a couple of trully desirable American cars (compared to what 'the old world' has to offer). Really, we stop being impressed at 'stuff from America' in our teens - know what I mean?, a friend from school comes back from a holiday in the US, with a foam hand or fancy digital watch. With the internet, it's just easy to get the things we want. As a kid I always wanted a pumpkinhead figure, from the movie - and I always thought that it would be easier to get one if I lived in the US. I ended up buying one for £10 on eBay. eBay has largely put an end to international envy - I could probably buy some pigeon poop off the statue of liberty if I wanted (or could afford the carriage charges).

I think the main American thing I appreciate are the TV shows. Like LOST, Fringe, Prison Break, Big Bang Theory, Heroes... could go on forever. British shows tend to be a bit vapid, or depressing. Maybe the most enviable thing about America is the attitude.

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Doomster
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 13:50 Edited at: 10th Mar 2011 14:04
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Quote: "I think the main American thing I appreciate are the TV shows"

Same here, 'cause I yet have to watch a german TV show that isn't utterly rubbish (boring and most of the time a copy of existing shows from america), all my favorite shows are from america - Scrubs, How I met your Mother, Becker, Frasier, Supernatural, Two and a half Men (the first few seasons), Fringe, Big Bang Theory, It's always sunny in Philadelphia, Arrested Developement, Ally McBeal (yeah...), and the list goes on.

And I can't live without Oreo's anymore, since I've first ate them...

But there's more than enough things coming from the USA that I can't stand: Halloween is among them.

Quote: "British shows"

But "The IT Crowd" is definitely enjoyable.

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Van B
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 14:08
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Ohh yes, IT Crowd, Spaced, The Mighty Boosh, Father Ted, Ideal, Alan Partridge, Caterick... tons of great shows, but not mainstream - The Mighty Boosh is probably the funniest UK show, yet it was shown on BBC2 at about 3am during the best 2 series. The big, popular shows in the UK make me want to self harm. Probably the worst of TV that we see in all countries - but with less of an excuse. There seems to be very few decent UK shows these days.
Myself, well I just wish your northerly neighbors would keep making Trailer Park Boys - that was the most original, genuinely funny, and just plain brilliant show ever made.

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xplosys
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 14:44
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Quote: "Over here, we drool over the finest French wines. Luxury chocolates come from Belgium or Switzerland. If you're not wearing a Swiss timepiece, you're just a wannabe. If you want to cruise around town in style, you're buying a European car. The most romantic date involves going to a fine Italian eatery. A special getaway involves a tour of Europe or the cruise the Mediterranean. The beaches of Monaco or Nice are hideouts for the wealthy. See where I'm going?"


Yeah, I see where you're going. Why don't you back away from the television and get a real life. Do you sit around reading romance novels all day? I bet you watch all the reality TV shows too. Get a grip!

Brian.

... and the band played on.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 15:29 Edited at: 10th Mar 2011 15:30
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Prices of stuff. Especially tech and car related. Look at Apple products and weep at the price comparison (even with VAT taken into consideration).

Oh, and getting American programs and films a little earlier. Don't know if so true nowadays but I heard a while back that the reason we were so behind in the UK for cimema films even against other European countries (Germany is a good example) is because we got cast offs from US. Was cheaper that way than making another load of copies just for us. So was quicker to convert to german language for instance than to wait for US to finish with it and give it to the UK. Was also the reason why the films tended to be more grainy. They had been played countless times in the US and get scratched and dirty. I remember going to germany in the 90s and they had an "English" film (dubbed in German) before the UK. Think was Mr Bean. I'm guessing was paid for by American companies and released there first etc.

As for cars then no, we also really want exotic European cars US cars can be nice to look at (Mustang, Viper etc) but drive like lawn mowers A Ferrari is where it's at. Failing that try my wife's car (Lotus Elise). Good old British car that is an epic fail for us blokes (drive one and see) but handles like nothing else. An SLK is like a boat.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 16:21
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The thing that I love about traveling to Europe is seeing all of the history. Other than that, it is "cool" to see cars driving on the wrong side of the road in the UK. It is also cool to see signs and things that are different that you are used to seeing at home. The more that things are different than you are used to, the more you really pay attention to your surroundings. I guess most of that would be true for a European traveling to the US though.

I think any European would have to be jealous of the cost of most items here in the US. Us Americans are pretty spoiled with how cheap we can buy things.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 16:44 Edited at: 10th Mar 2011 16:46
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British TV is far better. IT Crowd, Red Dwarf, Catherine Tate show. The office is supposed to be better, but I can't get past the first few episodes because it's creepy seeing your favorite characters in other people's bodies Got shows like Top Gear, All Creatures Great and Small (greatest lush jokes in that series) Doctor who though that's going downhill, Survivors, even the old series is pretty good. Monty Python, god, I know I'm missing about a dozen more series too. Gavin and Stacy for being markedly terrible is better than most American shows.

And all that's on netflix. I'm never going back to cable, netflix offers all the best TV from the BBC

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 19:14
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My parents used to live in America but I never did, so I definately envy American culture. TV shows definately, dramas especially.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." That's a bit like saying Hey bullies! So yeah, this words thing isn't working, but I'll tell you what will
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 19:34
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i only envy their prices

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Indicium
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:06
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me too

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:22
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I envy the TV partly. We have a Licence Fee that buys us the BBC. Of all the shows it produces, Top Gear and Doctor Who are the only bearable ones that spring to mind.

However we do have Hot Fuzz and Shaun of the Dead. I think the British failure rate in good viewing is higher, but creates some awesome stuff.

As far as getting stuff cheaper? I'm a student, can't afford anything anyway. Have yet to fully enjoy twisting, licking, sticking and dunking an Oreo, (by the way, why open it, lick it and close it again? I'd be weirded out if I saw someone doing that to say...a Big Mac.)

McDonalds is salvaging it's reputation here with a constant advertising presence, yet the food is tasteless. KFC is just godly, and we don't have a Burger King in my town. Another reason to hate my town.

Although despite all my patriotism there, (rare occurence), we have chavs here. I hate chavs.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:24 Edited at: 10th Mar 2011 20:41
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America's military technology

just throwing that out there.

[edit]
I just realized: sooooo many people where I live - california - work for US defense contractors. Lockheed Martin, General Atomics, Northrop Grumman, etc. Awesome stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBMU6l6GsdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJJQ0zNNOM&t=1m24s

I live close enough to the naval bases down here to go and see military ship launches. I've seen at least 3 different aircraft carriers, probably more like 4 or 5 of the 11 the US has xD

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:24
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So basically, America has better TV and cheaper prices.

Quote: "The thing that I love about traveling to Europe is seeing all of the history."

That is one thing that America can never gain over the rest of the world is the huge history that most other countries have. And I love old architecture.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:42
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i prefer eus tv =p

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 20:44
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Quote: "America's military technology"


NASAS as well A lot of people aren't actually aware of how much NASA has provided us with, outside of playing golf on the moon.

Kravenwolf

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bruce3371
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 21:30
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Petrol prices 'nuff said!

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:20
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Nasa did bring us that nifty memory foam

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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:46
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Without starting a political debate, it's fair to say the government here turns a lot of people away from enjoying anything American, a lot of things happened that caused resentment (that's the facts, no personal opinion or flamebait)

Heroes - good!
Prices - good for the pocket, not sure about the ethics of the price of goods. Maybe it's too cheap in the US, and we're just envious that you aren't paying our prices. In the UK some prices are too cheap to possibly represent fair wages for the manufacturers
Chocolate - sorry, but there is no comparison! I'll stick to European finery
Cars - we can't afford gas guzzlers at just under £6.00 a gallon ($9.60)

I work for a company that is now predominantly American. We may all speak English (French, Swedish and Dutch included, many speak better English than me!), but we are culturally very different. That's not a bad thing but it needs to be considered

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Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:48
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If it's big and loud America seem to do it best (apart from heavy metal music in which Britain rules everyone), their best TV shows are the big budget epics like Lost and Heroes. One show that breaks the rule is Curb Your Enthusiasm; I loved that programme, it had a very "British" sense of humour.

Other American comedies I like are The Big Bang Theory, Scrubs and How I Met Your Mother, but interestingly I hated all three initially! American humour is often slightly out of sync with British comedy so it takes a while for me to get into the grain of the humour.

On our side of the "pond" we've had many great comedies, a few of which have been named already, but I think British comedy has been dragging its heals a bit recently. BBC Three keeps churning out garbage and for me David Mitchell is almost single-handedly propping up British comedy; he does many radio show, Peep Show on Channel 4, various panel shows and hosts 10 O'Clock Live alongside Charlie Brooker, Jimmy Carr and the lovely Lauren Laverne. It's a good watch and quite interesting too as they stick to mainly political subjects, but David is so darn good he can add a lively comedic spin to any debate, and to his credit he's a very good interviewer as well.

Well this is turning into a frigging essay so I'll stop there.


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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:51
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I envy US for the cheap gas and clothes, and am glad that I can drive 20 minutes to Washington to get it if I want. I used to think all Canadian TV sucked, but a few gems like Trailer Park Boys and Durham County have appeared lately that are considered great TV. Durham County is much better than all those American CSI shows in my opinion And we have proper Smarties and Cadbury eggs here, so there's not a lot to be jealous of in America.

I am envious of the UK for having a castle or old church in every little town, but we can't have everything I guess!


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crispex
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:54
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I've honestly never paid much attention to this subject. Normally things are just "there" and I never think much about it.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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Admiral MH
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 22:55
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Quote: "Some people pointed out that some california wines have beaten out french wines. That food is cheaper in the US, and we shouldn't complain about $3.50 gas prices."


I think though prices will be going up for the US and Europe in the near future. I do feel sorry for Europeans paying so much in taxes, gas, food, ect...

Quote: "Do you European types envy our North American Products like we do yours?"


USA does not produce much of anything expect entertainment and service jobs.
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Lemonade
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 23:11
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Quote: " and we shouldn't complain about $3.50 gas prices."


$3.75 now. With protests beginning to stir in Saudi Arabia, things aren't looking good for anyone, the US or the UK.

The only TV show that I watch is British, and it's not even aired anymore. It is called Yes Minister (and the sequel, Yes Prime Minister). I can't get enough of it.

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David R
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 00:23
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I envy the US for jobs and internships, especially in the tech sector

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 00:48
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That's another thing. There is no chocolate in the world that compares to Cadbury. Full. Stop.

The EU said it shouldn't be classed as chocolate because it uses animal fat instead of vegetable oil. I'm sorry but Nestle and the rest are terrible in comparison, give me my Cadbury's "candy" bar any day.

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crispex
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I really was never impressed by Cadbury. I still am a Hershey's man.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 01:29
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Quote: "USA does not produce much of anything expect entertainment and service jobs. "

AND GUNS!

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 02:12 Edited at: 11th Mar 2011 02:13
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Quote: "entertainment service jobs AND GUNS"


What else is there, really?

Kravenwolf

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Errant AI
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The US Dollar has world reserve currency status. That's the primary reason things are cheaper here (other than not being required to pay ridiculous 20% VAT on everything). Nearly all oil trade is done in USD... When European nations buy oil from Russia they have to pay to exchange Euros or Sterling for Dollars and then the Russian's have to pay to convert it back to their currency. Eventually this will probably change to Yuan in 20-30 years (sooner if The Fed doesn't stop printing money) and there will probably be massive war and unrest to resist the consequences of the loss of status.

If something awesome gets made in America, chance are it'll be exported all around the world anyhow. So, there's not many goods to envy as being uniquely available in America. Google, Windows, Facebook, xbox, etc are the same everywhere though they are American products.

The things that are more unique are also a lot more discrete. Like less taxes or greater upward mobility or not having CCTV cameras everywhere or having more choices as to how you defend your family or just having room to breathe if you want it (the whole of Europe being less than half the size of the continental US alone).

As for the other part of North America, I really envy Canadian citizen's easy access to short barrelled shotguns and grenade launchers

When traveling outside the states, I really missed U.S. made Skyy brand vodka... of all things lol
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Admiral MH
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 03:24
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Quote: "The US Dollar has world reserve currency status. That's the primary reason things are cheaper here (other than not being required to pay ridiculous 20% VAT on everything). Nearly all oil trade is done in USD... When European nations buy oil from Russia they have to pay to exchange Euros or Sterling for Dollars and then the Russian's have to pay to convert it back to their currency. Eventually this will probably change to Yuan in 20-30 years (sooner if The Fed doesn't stop printing money) and there will probably be massive war and unrest to resist the consequences of the loss of status. "


I Agree. No doubt that within a few years the US will default on its budget, with all the printing and barrowing of money.

Quote: "As for the other part of North America, I really envy Canadian citizen's easy access to short barrelled shotguns and grenade launchers"


That's nice that Canadians can have that. I wish North America would allow that and automatic weapons
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Bizar Guy
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Personally, I like the coasts of the US. I'm going to college in the Midwest, and while I was looking for a college in the middle of nowhere, I don't like the endless farms and straight square roads as a place to live. I guess then I don't envy UK landscape, and I really like the US northeast, though there IS a number of thousands of years less recognizable Human history on the land, and it's awesome. like that.

I hate the business ethics in the US, particularly things to do with neo capitalism, but that's politics, and I guess everywhere now.

Tv shows currently on the air I watch: Doctor Who, Community, Being Human (US), Being Human (UK). Dunno if UK one is finished, as I watch TV online, but... eh.

Ended TV shows and movies are too much to list. UK wins TV for me right now thus, though this is always in flux

Favorite writers: Neil Giaman, Stephen King, and Orson Scott Card. Then Asimov, Clark, and Murakami. US wins with 3, UK in second with 2, Japan 3rd with 1.

Video Games: Japan wins. That was fast. =P
Though not in RPGs, for me.

Comics: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
UK, because of Sandman. Tons of other amazing comics and mangas, but Sandman wins.

Webcomics: US, though it hardly matters where the web comic creators live most of the time XD

Coffee: Europe. By g-d, american coffee sucks.

Lobsters: US. I don't even think they live anywhere else.

Gunpowder: China. A Chinese alchemist made it trying to create an elixir for eternal life. Imagine that.

Spaceships: US, though I am very disappointed in how little funding this is getting. Heck, the private market has started picking up the slack.

Military: US, though I don't think it's much to be proud of. Especially when the US military itself tells congress it does not need the amount of funding it is given.

President: US

Prime Minister: UK

Royalty: UK

Cars: Saab

Apple: Expensive

Microsoft: Everywhere, and a scapegoat

Linux: pretty awesome, but a hassle and generally you will still need a Microsoft OS on the side.

Cats: Cleaner than dogs

Dogs: Friendlier than cats

Chocobos: Delicious.


However,

I am a strong believer that the internet wins, in the end.

At everything.


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Plystire
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 05:03
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So you like our TV shows (you can't be envious because you obviously have access to them) and you want our gas prices. Well, I don't think that quite levels on the average American's envy of europe. But, hey, last I checked it's not like every european has a ferrari and/or lamborghini parked out front. If they're envious of our gas prices, I doubt they'd be willing to get a supercar to guzzle more gas.

Yeah, I like ferraris and lambos, but I wouldn't ever get one. I mean... in America, owning one of those is just painting a target on your forehead. I've always liked to keep a low profile.

Chocolate? Kinder chocolate anyone?


Quote: "As for the other part of North America, I really envy Canadian citizen's easy access to short barrelled shotguns and grenade launchers"


If American's cry loud enough for more freedom and less security, that may well happen. But as security wanes and freedom takes over, Anarchy is just around the corner. It's not easy to find the perfect balance of the two to make the entire country happy.


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However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Van B
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 09:40
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Quote: "Lobsters: US. I don't even think they live anywhere else."


We get lobsters in the UK, and they are delicious - the best thing about seafood in the UK is that it's so fresh, everywhere is less than 200 miles to the coast.

Kinder chocolate sucks. Really - those eggs have the worst chocolate out there, people only buy them for the toys. The hippo's aren't bad, but not much chocolate on them. In the UK, we do sweets properly - there really is no comparison anywhere.

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 10:03
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I love different things about all different places... really cars and trucks anymore arnt 'American' or 'german'(sorry UK... your cars are terrible lol...) I think some models of ferrari have ford engines. Dodge uses mercedes diesel engines in sprint vans. We all have our own niche... like in the US our niche is... well...

on that note im tired and i have to get up so ttyl everyone... ha.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 10:21
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Quote: "So basically, America has better TV and cheaper prices"
Yes to the prices. No to the TV. What I meant was that USA get American TV programs before we do. That's about it really. Overall I would say the quality of TV is better in the UK, we just don't do as much of it. Plus annoyingly we are lucky if a series (season) lasts longer than 6 episodes. Top Gear gets hundreds of millions of viewers and it gets split into two series a year of 6 episodes each. Even a pretty low rated comedy in the US gets at least 20 episodes a year.

Cheers

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Plystire
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 11:35
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Quote: "Kinder chocolate sucks. Really - those eggs have the worst chocolate out there, people only buy them for the toys."


I'm more attached to the childhood memories than the chocolate itself.
To be perfectly honest, I stopped eating chocolate for the most part after I turned 18 or so. If I do eat chocolate, it's usually part of a girlscout cookie.


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Only those who sow the seeds of their desires will reap their benefits later.
However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 12:56
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IMO guns are the worst thing about America. Over here a mugging would involve getting the crap kicked outta me, possibly a knife in the kidneys, thankfully have never been stabbed, but would imagine it'd be better than a bullet to the brain in terms of survivability.

Whereas walking down a dark alley, I could get taken out from a distance and have my corpse robbed. No chance of surviving, no chance of defending myself.

Guns belong in the army. I mean people in America have guns, to kill other people that have guns. It's a vicious cycle that I'm glad we don't have here.

That being said, it'd be fun to have a shooting range to try guns out on.

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Plystire
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 13:53
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We do have shooting ranges here that are good clean fun, but it's the gangs all over America that tend make guns a problem. The availability of guns also brings up concern for one's safety, thus many people obtain gun licenses to own them just in case they need one for self defense in case of a breakin. It is indeed a cycle.


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However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 19:03
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I've had knives put up to my ribs, threatened by guns. It's part of american life, not a good part, but not much i can do about it except move to canada.

The Internet: Where men are men, women are men, and children are federal agents
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Indicium
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 19:41
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I've always thought the prices are cheaper over in the US. You look at newegg.com and graphics cards that are over £200 in the UK are less than $150 on newegg, and it makes me sad from time to time.
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thenerd
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 20:36
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Target stores in Texas and a few other states have a gun section...

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crispex
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:31
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Well, generally most stores in the South carry their own gun sections. I'd like to say that the country is united, but it actually isn't. If you go down to the South, it's a totally different place than up in the North. Things are far more laid back in the South, but they still carry the old fashioned "Bible Belt" way of life. Nearly every house is armed, trucks are a must-have, and generally you keep your manners. I still like the North, so I'll stick there.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:59 Edited at: 14th Mar 2011 03:47
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crispex
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 23:43
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I have to agree, as I've always felt this way. First of all, guns don't kill people, irrationality kills people. Second, like drugs, if people want guns they'll get them. There is no way around it. I'm not some super gun nut who stockpiles 600 assault rifles, no, I have a Glock 19 I always keep locked up, but available for quick access. There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. Plus, Canadians have guns, just as many as the states, and they do not have NEARLY the crime rates the United States has.

Watch Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine." It shows the United State's violent nature in general.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 00:07
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@CapnBuzz

I read through all of that, and I'll still say that guns belong in the Army, or Special Police units.

England does fine without everyone havign guns. America could never go to the way we are, because you can't tell who's trustworthy or not. Face it, everyone in America can say, "It's for self-defence" when caught with a Glock on them, then rob a shop when the officer leaves.

In Britain? You have a gun? Armed Police. Shootout if they're dumb/CoD players, ass on the floor if they're smart...er.

Here they don't have to "thought police," we can tell who the bad guy is, it's the one carrying an object capable of killing someone. There are a million other self defence weapons from stun guns, to Tazers, to Mace. Why kill someone because they want your money?

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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 00:14 Edited at: 12th Mar 2011 04:03
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.....
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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 00:43
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Quote: "we can tell who the bad guy is, it's the one carrying an object capable of killing someone."


This. Debate over in my opinion. I seriously wouldn't feel safe walking the streets knowing that people around me legally had guns, it'd be insane. I hate to think what would happen if all the wannabe hardmen could suddenly start waving guns around.

I'm happy the way things are dealt with in the UK. Although I do feel it would be a better idea to keep the police armed at all times, I guess it works both ways.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 00:47
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Dude... I didn't even mean guns, really. I meant *weapons*, including but not mainly guns. I meant more the awesome technology, in airplanes, boats, RPGs, defense systems, etc. I meant the stuff that the companies I mentioned (and someone added: NASA, General Atomics, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and others) make, is exported after it's no longer the best stuff out there.

Also... The right to bear arms is a necessity in unstable countries (in case it's the government vs the people)... I'm not too sure about in the USA... because if people needed to take up arms against the government... well... the US gov. is so well armed...

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