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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] North America vs. Europe

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Isocadia
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 18:17
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Well, I'm gonna throw some flamebait out there

I honestly think that cocaine, heroine, crystal meth etc. should be legalized for 2 main reason:

1. Insurance of quality: If the cocaine industry would be watched by the government, you wouldn't have people dying because of a bad batch.

2. It stops the maffia for a while. Imagine how all the crimes caused by the illegal producing and shipping would decline.

And personally, don't come with the arguement that more people will start using it. If cocaine would be legalized I'm smart enough to know not to use it. If people use it it will be:

a) because they already use it,
b) because ( no offence ) they are complete retards who want to ruin their lives, and they have my permission.

Isocadia

PS: Please note that this is not meant just as flamebait, this is my real opinion and I'm open to arguments that will explain why this shouldn't work. I don't think it should be sold everywhere, but as weed is now, it should be sold at regulated places where the amount you take is monitored, just to insure you're not getting yourself killed because of an overdose etc.
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lazerus
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 18:48
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Quote: "
1. Insurance of quality: If the cocaine industry would be watched by the government, you wouldn't have people dying because of a bad batch.

2. It stops the maffia for a while. Imagine how all the crimes caused by the illegal producing and shipping would decline.

And personally, don't come with the arguement that more people will start using it. If cocaine would be legalized I'm smart enough to know not to use it. If people use it it will be:

a) because they already use it,
b) because ( no offence ) they are complete retards who want to ruin their lives, and they have my permission."


No. no. no.

That gives off the impression thats there acceptable risk when taking it. When there not, at all. Meth ampethmines cause far too much damage to the brain and body which would cost the UK millions more. I would outright refuse to pay my health tax if i was paying for some drugged up meth heads medication. Its the same with smoking, dosnt matter or not if i smoke i pay for someones elses addiction. Fair enough to everything else but when people have the choice and choose to screw themselves up, we shouldnt have to pay for them.

Then ontop you couldnt monitor cocain import, you'd have the same scum cutting and stepping on it to make a quick £ off some poor bugger whos addicted thanks to the goverments 'clean' version.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 19:18 Edited at: 15th Mar 2011 19:30
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Quote: "Well, I'm gonna throw some flamebait out there

I honestly think that cocaine, heroine, crystal meth etc. should be legalized for 2 main reason:

1. Insurance of quality: If the cocaine industry would be watched by the government, you wouldn't have people dying because of a bad batch.

2. It stops the maffia for a while. Imagine how all the crimes caused by the illegal producing and shipping would decline.

And personally, don't come with the arguement that more people will start using it. If cocaine would be legalized I'm smart enough to know not to use it. If people use it it will be:

a) because they already use it,
b) because ( no offence ) they are complete retards who want to ruin their lives, and they have my permission.

Isocadia"

Lazerus took the words right out of my mouth.

Quote: "Seriously, I'm waiting on Jeremy Kyle coming out and calling someone scum. The people who do nothing all day, would probably be doing nothing even if they didn't have any - or they'd more likely be taking something else."

I don't agree at all with that. And this is just from my experience and from my experience, my opinion on the matter has been correct 100% of the time. I'm mainly speaking about people I know personally, and there have been quite a few who got caught up in weed. Yes, it's possible they'd be on something else but not always true. It's the weed that has made them so unproductive and I will ALWAYS stand by that argument. I've heard every possible argument towards the matter, but every time the people I've seen quit smoking, have either
a) gotten a full time job
or
b) started going to school full time.
Maybe the people I've seen go through this exact process were extreme cases and that 99% of people aren't unproductive because of the weed... maybe, I don't know. But from what I've seen, it's been the drug. There just is absolutely no reason whatsoever to legalize it. Making a drug legal gives an impression to too many that it is okay to do it. Truly the only reason I can see weed being legalized is because so many people already smoke... that's IT. There is no purpose of legalizing it, imo. Honestly, what good comes of weed? Nothing for the United States at least. People out here badly get caught up in drugs.

And although this debate goes against the AUP, sometimes giving us regular forum users a place to speak freely about our opinions, is an excellent way to vent some steam. No one here is taking this too far... CapnBuzz got a lil angry but he wasn't really understanding that no one here was attacking any one or anything in any way... As long as this thread stays like this, I think the mods should lets us vent a bit

Signature's are stupid.
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Eminent
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 19:33
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Quote: "Quote: "The US Dollar has world reserve currency status. That's the primary reason things are cheaper here (other than not being required to pay ridiculous 20% VAT on everything). Nearly all oil trade is done in USD... When European nations buy oil from Russia they have to pay to exchange Euros or Sterling for Dollars and then the Russian's have to pay to convert it back to their currency. Eventually this will probably change to Yuan in 20-30 years (sooner if The Fed doesn't stop printing money) and there will probably be massive war and unrest to resist the consequences of the loss of status. "

I Agree. No doubt that within a few years the US will default on its budget, with all the printing and barrowing of money.

Quote: "As for the other part of North America, I really envy Canadian citizen's easy access to short barrelled shotguns and grenade launchers"

That's nice that Canadians can have that. I wish North America would allow that and automatic weapons"


*facepalm* Canada is in North America. Plus, I'm quite sure we can't get easy shot guns in Canada, at least I've never seen one. The only working gun I've seen in Canada was a musket in the Fort York museum.


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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 20:10
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Quote: "Actually I wouldn't mind giving it a go, I'm sure it's a blast."


Zing!


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crispex
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 21:22
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That's the thing, most smokers go outside nowadays. Smoking normal cigarettes doesn't exactly get you high. If you get high, you're putting yourself and others at risk instead of just yourself.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 22:20
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Quote: "Quote: "Actually I wouldn't mind giving it a go, I'm sure it's a blast."

Zing!"


Sorry for the pun.

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Quik
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 00:15 Edited at: 16th Mar 2011 00:15
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Quote: "When was the last time you had to endure passive smoking though?"


waiting for the buss -> passive smoking.
outside of school -> passive smoking
-> waiting for buss again -> passive smoking
-> waiting for the other boss -> passive smoking
thats my regular day.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Errant AI
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 01:17
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Quote: "I'm quite sure we can't get easy shot guns in Canada, at least I've never seen one. The only working gun I've seen in Canada was a musket in the Fort York museum."


It never hurts to know your own laws... but then again most U.S. citizens think machine-guns and silencers are illegal/banned in the states when in truth they there are simply restricted.

In Canada, once you have your PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) you can go to a shop and purchase a factory-built pump or break-open shotgun with an overall length greater than 660mm (26inches). There's no limit on barrel length so long as the overall length is met.

This is totally legal to buy in Canada with a PAL...

(I believe they're marketed for backpackers who hike in areas with bear populations)

In the USA any shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches and a shoulder stock is considered a "short barrelled shotgun" which is restricted and requires permission from your area Sheriff or Chief Law Enforcement Officer, a $200 tax, additional BATFE check and waiting about three months for processing.

As for grenade launchers; In Canada is something fires at less that 500FPS it isn't considered a firearm and is unrestricted. This includes low velocity launchers such as the M-203. So a 40mm launcher in Canada is about as illegal as a coffee pot.

In the USA, an M-203 is classed as a "destructive device" because it has no sporting use and bore greater than 0.50". To buy one, a person would have to go through all the procedure as I listed for the short barrelled shotgun.

Granted, I'm not saying Canadians can buy the actual grenades to launch out of it but they can buy the launcher (if they can find one) since I don't know the Canadian laws in regards to explosives. In the states you can buy the grenades (if you can find them) but each one is considered a destructive device and subject to all the taxes and paperwork, etc. It's obviously a prohibitively expensive hobby.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 09:53
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Quote: "In Canada is something fires at less that 500FPS"


For the gun clueless, like myself, what is FPS? I assume it's not Frames Per Second :-P

A man will one day wear a tophat in glasgow on a sunny day juggeling grapes while humming the jurrasic park theme tune.
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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 11:10 Edited at: 16th Mar 2011 11:14
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Quote: "For the gun clueless, like myself, what is FPS?"


Feet per second. (Thank you, Airsoft )


EDIT: In case you were curious; 500FPS = ~341mph.

Kravenwolf

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Errant AI
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 11:34
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Quote: "Feet per second. (Thank you, Airsoft )"


Don't know if it's needed to clarify but the FPS measurement is for the velocity of the projectile.

...and before anyone asks why someone would want a grenade launcher when they can't have the grenades; the simple answer is that they can be used to launch parachute flare munitions.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 17:33
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Quote: "the simple answer is that they can be used to launch parachute flare munitions."


Useful for hunting moose and buffalo at night no doubt.
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 19:16
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Quote: "Quote: "the simple answer is that they can be used to launch parachute flare munitions."

Useful for hunting moose and buffalo at night no doubt."


More useful if your boat is sinking and you want to attract attention. Or some other situation where you need to get someone's attention.

There are two kinds of computer users. Those that use Macs and those that wish they did.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 19:20
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Are you seriously trying to tell us that flares can only be launched from a grenade launcher? Seems highly unlikely to me.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 19:28 Edited at: 16th Mar 2011 19:28
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So, the guy with the grenade launcher can accidentally sink the ship AND call for help. The grenade launcher, a wonderful multi-purpose tool.

Whilst I'm being facetious, wouldn't a flare gun suffice? Whilst I'm sure it's a neat a thing to do with a grenade launcher, I just can't imagine a situation where you'd be stranded with a grenade launcher, flare munitions and no flaregun. I think a grenade launcher is the last thing somebody would take on a boat with them and of course, it'd take a lot more space than a flare gun. Admittedly it'd be pretty bad-ass and I'd applaud the man who fires a flare with a grenade launcher for sheer style, heck I'd shake his hand and say, "I love you", but still...

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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 20:21
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Quote: "Are you seriously trying to tell us that flares can only be launched from a grenade launcher? Seems highly unlikely to me."

Where in his post did he say that?

-Keith

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 20:28
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I think what GG is trying to get at, is why is a grenade launcher preferable to a flare gun? (at least I read his post as being ironic)

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Errant AI
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 20:51
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Quote: "Whilst I'm being facetious, wouldn't a flare gun suffice?"


Parachute flares are mostly useful for illumination though they they definitely would get some attention if used for signaling. The difference between a 40mm parachute flare launched from a grenade launcher and a 25.5mm parachute flare launched from a more common flare launcher is brightness and burn time. A 25.5mm parachute flare can rise to about 450 feet, lasts for about 12 seconds and produces approx. 15,000 candela vs. a 40mm parachute flare which can rise to about 600 feet, lasts 30-40 seconds and produces 90,000 candela. With a 40mm flare you can illuminate several acres for a decent amount of time. Very useful for a multitude of situations such as search and rescue or distress signaling.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 01:35 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 01:41
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Ok, I have read much of this thread (was too mad to keep reading after a point), and seriously... WTF.

Do you people serious believe you need a gun in the US to be safe? My g-d damn roommate who owns 6-10 guns (Wisconsin) and goes hunting like 6-10 times a YEAR with his dad and uncles would not say that, and I own nothing worse than a Nerf Gun (college thing, we're mature like that). Living in Massachusetts, Wisconsin, and Florida, traveling in every place from the middle of the woods, the mountains, the plains, to the slums of Chicago, New York, Brooklyn, Milwaukee Lynn, Boston, and having many, many friends who live deep in the cities, some in very bad parts, I can tell you that my only friends with guns HUNT, otherwise their guns do not leave their house, and frankly I can count the number of people I know who hunt on one hand. Yeah.

Robberies happen, but this isn't the g-d damn movies. VERY few people actually get held at gun point relatively. Yes, it happens a lot, if you don't look at it relatively, but in actuality the change of getting held at gunpoint in the US IS VERY LOW for any one person.

I'm not saying there aren't huge problems with gun violence (an uncle of mine was killed by some kid trying to get into a gang, back in the 80s. Guess what. The kid didn't get the gun legally), I'm saying they occur in specific areas mostly, and even then gun violence is not the movies or GTA, as bad as it is.

I mean... g-d. What is wrong with you people??????????


...Ok, got it out of my system. Sorry about that, but a few pages back I was reading about gun violence US vs. UK, and that you NEED a gun to be safe in the US????!?!?!?? BS. Don't carry a gun for protection, that is a BAD idea, that will probably end with a bullet in someone's body.

I say this as someone who is actually trained in using rifles and shotguns, though not pistols, though my knowledge of guns and gun safety is dwarfed by my roommate.


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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 01:53 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 01:54
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You need to settle down a bit. Everyone here is only sharing their opinions on the matter, just like you. No need to degenerate to petty attacks because you share a different view. This thread has stayed open because the people participating in the debate have, to this point; stayed respectful to one another and have been debating with a mature attitude. It would be nice if it could stay that way


Quote: "and that you NEED a gun to be safe in the US????!?!?!?? BS."


No one ever said that, as I recall.


Kravenwolf

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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 02:11 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 02:12
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@Bizar Guy - Chill

People need to separate the assailant from the weapon. When my grandfather was in school all the kids brought their rifles to class and put them with their jackets in the cloakrooms. The % of accidental shots killing kids and what-not isn't any more than today. I'm not sure I understand banning something because a sociopath can use it to go on a killing spree. They should keep on selling guns to those responsible enough to get their firearms licenses, IMHO, and still seize guns from those who don't, because the black market will ALWAYS exist.

In Canada the government created a national gun registry that was over $2 BILLION overbudget. So far it hasn't done anything to curb gun violence. There was a drive-by shooting in my old neighbourhood just a few days ago. Making more gun laws will do jack-all (jack-all is synonymous with "nothing" to those non-Canadians ). Like I said before, the governments have banned murder, haven't they? Look how well that works.


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Quik
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 02:11 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 02:12
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Here in sweden...
I have never seen a real weapon aside from knives and swords, for decoration.
and i have seen my granpas hunting rifle.
thats about it.
Thats about all the weapon swe are allowed at home here in sweden, and.. we do fine with it.

edit: witrh allowed at home, I mean without trying to get a license (which is hard.)


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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KeithC
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 03:16
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@ Bizar Guy:

Like they said above; settle down. People do get held up by gun-toting criminals everyday. I know this because I talk to those gun-toting criminals everyday, in the prison they were sent to for their crimes. I know what's out there, because I am around them inside all the time. I talk to them, and I listen to them. You don't know what's going on in some of their "minds". Your assertions don't jive with the real world. It only takes one time to get in a life or death situation, there is no "reset button" in life. You're either prepared, or your not. That's your choice. But don't bag on other people because they choose to defend themselves and their loved ones.

-Keith

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 04:05
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Wow Bizar Guy... Just wow.

No one here has attacked anyone's views yet you think it is completely fine to come in and act like we are all ignorant degenerates.

I have multiple guns in my house. And yes, I DO feel MUCH SAFER with them in the house. I don't care how relatively (as you would say) small a chance it is that I get held gunpoint or robbed. It happens to people EVERY single day. People who live with the mentality, "It could never happen to me," are the people who get killed.

I'm prepared for a situation like that and always will be.

Ever heard of, "It's better to have a gun and not need it, than not have a gun and need it."? There aren't many statements that hold as much truth as that.

Quote: "and that you NEED a gun to be safe in the US????!?!?!?? BS."

There is absolutely NOTHING 'bs' about that statement depending on where in the US you live.

Quote: "I mean... g-d. What is wrong with you people??????????"

Yes, oh my god!!! What is wrong with all of us!?!?! How dare us try to feel safe and secure in life! What a horrible crime we have all committed.
Just because something doesn't work for you... doesn't mean it doesn't work for the rest of us.

Signature's are stupid.
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Herakles
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 06:30
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I live in America, I own guns, and I'm fully trained and experienced in using them. However, I haven't fired a single bullet outside of a firing range in decades. "Better to have a gun and not need one, than to need one and not have one" as the cliche goes. But it seems to me that the first part of the cliche is more common than the latter part.

When people say "Oh, guns are dangerous! We can't let anyone have them!" they would be partially right. They are dangerous (no duh, they're purpose is to shoot people), but that's exactly why we have to let people have them if they want them. It is every man's right to own a firearm for self defense. However, weapons like rocket launchers or full automatic rifles just aren't necessary for self defense. That's not to say that sidearms or semi-automatic rifles ARE necessary for self defense. But come on, no one is going to attack you on the street with a tank.

So yes, guns are dangerous and have to be limited. You can make certain types of guns illegal and make people need a liscence to own a gun. But you can't take away a man's right to own a gun entirely. That's one of the reasons the Revolutionary War was fought in the first place.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 18:42
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Quote: "I mean people in America have guns, to kill other people that have guns"


Quote: "It's a vicious cycle"


Yeah, this is true, but consider this.
If you made it illegal in the US to have guns.. then criminals would still have them because they have no respect for the law in the first place.

It is all really the same with everything in the media. Every thing gets blown out of proportion. Gangs are here of course, but they are also every where else in the world, just under different names.

How did this thread go from whine to guns anyways?
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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 19:28
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Quote: "If you made it illegal in the US to have guns.. then criminals would still have them because they have no respect for the law in the first place."


I don't think anyone's suggesting you should make guns illegal in the US.

[b]
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Lemonade
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 05:26
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Quote: "I don't think anyone's suggesting you should make guns illegal in the US."


You'd be surprised...

Just don't ban my airsoft guns, please! Unfortunately they have already been banned in some areas.

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SH4773R
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 05:42
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They tryed to ban um where I am too, four people got shot by the police in the last last 2 years cuz of them.

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Lemonade
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 05:52
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Well, yeah, if people wield them in public they should expect that sort of confusion. Police have every right to fire on them since displaying an airsoft gun in public is illegal (at least where I live.) However, I don't think the government should ban all airsoft guns because of those people.

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4125
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 06:50 Edited at: 18th Mar 2011 06:51
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It's kinda hard to get a gun here in NY. I only know one person with a gun and it's for self defense.

My friends wanted a gun. But not a single place will give him the permit. Im not sure how you would get the permit anyway. After all, that's what he told me.

There as been many shoot outs 1 block away from my bedroom window. Doesn't affect me that much because this always happen from time to time. Idk, you get used to it after a while.

Im not afraid what so ever of going outside. But I do know that things can happen. Maybe I've been a tad lucky that any of those things didn't happened to me in the past 6 years.

Since I only been to some parts of the northeast outside of NY. I can't say what's good or bad about the country as a whole. If I been to other states to learn maybe I would give an answer.

The only thing I would say I envy in Europe is the the nice cars they got. Can't really think of anything else to be honest ...

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, XFX 780i SLI Motherboard
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SH4773R
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 07:08
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There accents are beast too, especially british and Scottish. The only accent that comes close in awesomeness is Russian.

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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 12:46
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Quote: "Police have every right to fire on them since displaying an airsoft gun in public is illegal"


There's another difference that I don't think has been mentioned. In the UK, the police don't carry guns either. There are armed units, but they are not on general patrol, only called in for extreme circumstances were the suspect is armed or a threat to others' lives.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 13:18
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Several peopl have claimed they want guns for "self defense" and that they feel safer owning guns. I'm just not convinced that feeling is supported by the facts. Are you any safer owning a gun? I rather doubt it. Where's your evidence?

If an armed intruder comes into your house they will be expecting trouble, you on the other hand will probably be caught by surprise. The likelihood is that the intruder will shoot first if they see the householder approach with a gun. Also, they may have fewer qualms about doing so. They have an interest in self defense too.

Over the last couple of years there's been a spate of knife crime in parts of the UK. Some youngsters claim to carry knives for self defense. I'm sure I've seen figures somewhere which show that those who carry knives are more likely to be injured than those who don't. But I admit I'm not sure.

Can anyone else here produce actual figures to support their claims about safety?
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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 14:06 Edited at: 18th Mar 2011 14:09
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Quote: "Several peopl have claimed they want guns for "self defense" and that they feel safer owning guns. I'm just not convinced that feeling is supported by the facts. Are you any safer owning a gun? I rather doubt it. Where's your evidence?

If an armed intruder comes into your house they will be expecting trouble, you on the other hand will probably be caught by surprise. The likelihood is that the intruder will shoot first if they see the householder approach with a gun. Also, they may have fewer qualms about doing so. They have an interest in self defense too.

Over the last couple of years there's been a spate of knife crime in parts of the UK. Some youngsters claim to carry knives for self defense. I'm sure I've seen figures somewhere which show that those who carry knives are more likely to be injured than those who don't. But I admit I'm not sure.

Can anyone else here produce actual figures to support their claims about safety?"


Excerpt (source):

"Two and a half years later, on October 16, 1991, the infamous Luby’s Cafeteria shooting occurred in Killeen, Texas. In what we would now call an “active shooter” situation, George Hennard drove his pick up truck through the front of the restaurant and was able to stalk, shoot, and terrorize the 80 lunchtime patrons, killing 23 and wounding another 20 before police cornered him and he turned a gun on himself. He’d been able to reload several times before police could arrive, and there were no armed citizens to challenge him. I was now a patrol sergeant and really starting to really re-evaluate my stance on citizen carry, and frankly, the Luby’s incident scared the heck out of me. After all, just like my state, the law in Texas at the time forbade citizens from carrying handguns. The Texas “serious crime” rate was 38 % above the nation average. After the post-Luby’s passage of the CCW law, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50% faster than the United States as a whole. Illinois, however, continued to prohibit CCW."

"My adopted home town, the city of Chicago, is a perfect example of Lott’s conclusions. We’re averaging 20 – 40 shootings a weekend, three Chicago cops have been killed this year, off duty, since May, and yet Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation! Who’s got the guns? The cops and the bad guys; and frankly, the cops tend to be out-numbered and often out-gunned. All the gun laws in the world aren’t going to keep thugs from owning, carrying and using firearms, so all the City of Chicago is doing is keeping law abiding citizens from legally obtaining personal protection firearms."

Excerpt (source):

"Police simply cannot protect, and aren’t required to protect every individual; therefore, we must protect ourselves. Armed citizens kill more than twice the amount of crooks than police do every year. Take the former Attorney General of Florida, Jim Smith, for example. He told Florida legislators that police responded to only about 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help in Dade County. Smith was asked why so many citizens in Dade County were buying guns and he said, “They damn well better, they’ve got to protect themselves.”

Also, in 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that more than 32,000 attempted rapes were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a knife, or a gun, only 3% of the attempted rapes were successful.

Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A study that was done in 1998 revealed that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry firearms concealed. Murder rates dropped by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%, in states that passed concealed weapons laws."

There are NUMEROUS other examples and statistics out there, if you actually take the time to search, and not put the onus on others to do so.

If someone breaks into my house, or into any of my neighbors houses; the first thing they're going to do is alert one of the dogs, which will in turn wake me up (or my neighbor(s). Lights don't get turned on in that instant; which is why I keep a flashlight next to the gun. I know the inside layout of my house (with my eyes closed); chances are...they do not. I can absolutely guarantee that if someone breaks in my house, it isn't to ask to use the phone. I will automatically assume they are there to do me (or my family) personal harm, and will act accordingly. Your assumptions about what intruders are thinking are juvenile at best. As I've said before; I talk to criminals daily, they have no problem telling me what they've done, and I back it up by reading their files.

One guy came into a family's house and killed them all with their own steak knives. A bullet could have stopped that. I talk to that guy regularly at arms length on the yard. There are criminals that commit a home invasion ONLY if the people are home. Usually to either rape or kill them...or both.

This is why arguments (this is not a debate; I haven't seen any actual stats or stories...other than the ones I've just listed with a very weak internet search) like this are a bad idea here. Too many people come on with preconceived notions about how they think the world should work; or how they believe reality to be.

If this continues; this thread will be shut down.

-Keith

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 14:08
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If you look at the case of Raoul Moat, in the UK that was massive news, a manhunt that went on for a week... and for the murder of 1 person (blinding of another) - but I have to ask what sort of presedence that would get in the US. Would a single murder even feature on the news?

I've had 2 home invasions, but only one of them ended badly (I don't want to go into detail). A couple of friends were severely mashed up in a home invasion, serious head injuries, really sick stuff. The UK can be just as violent, only we manage to do it without guns, we tend to rely on alcohol instead. The bottom line is that every country has it's share of nut cases who shouldn't be allowed to mingle with normal people - it might be worth being glad that guns are not readily available for most people.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 15:45
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KeithC

A few high profile extreme cases don't amount to convincing statistics one way or the other. What are the overall safety figures for those owning/not owning guns extracted in a statistically valid way (i.e. not comparing non-gun owners in a quiet residential area with gun owners in a rough inner city neighbourhood)? Do you know? If so give the source. Otherwise you are as much in the dark as I am.

Quote: "The bottom line is that every country has it's share of nut cases who shouldn't be allowed to mingle with normal people - it might be worth being glad that guns are not readily available for most people."


Indeed.
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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 16:00
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Look it up yourself, it's out there. I'm not doing the work for you.

-Keith

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 17:25
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Nor I yours mate.
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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 18:13
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I just gave you some examples of what's out there, with a very quick and minor search. Yet you want some sort of "report" to be compiled on your behalf. I don't have that kind of free time; perhaps you do.

As I can see that this "debate" between Europe and the US is spinning off into the usual areas (gun control and the evils of the US system...which I'm sure would sooner or later turn into talk about War...then Religion....etc, etc.); it's getting locked. If you want to talk about things that won't send "both sides" into a flurry; try adding to the conversation about soda pop, "mate".

-Keith

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Errant AI
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 18:37
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Think tanks on both sides of the spectrum spend loads of time and money collating statistics in attempts to persuade audiences one way or another.

http://www.hardylaw.net/FailedExperiment.pdf

Give that a read and reach your own conclusions.

Really though, in the USA, net safety has as much to do with rights to firearm possession as does hunting. Which is to say that ultimately neither have bearing. At the end of the day, Americans have guns because we value personal liberty over majoritarianism. Either it's something that can be understood or it isn't.
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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 18:37
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Flame

This thread has been locked due to the unmanageable number of flame responses. Please refer to section 3.11 - 3.12 of the Acceptable Usage Policy for full details:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=aup#forum

AUP Section 3.17 ...Moderators shall, at their discretion, determine what constitutes a violation of these terms, along with generally accepted netiquette standards, and can take action against those who violate these rules.

If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases a ban.

-Keith

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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 18:38
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Oh; and just to add to the above automated response, no one's getting moderated...since a few Mods have taken part.

-Keith

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