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Geek Culture / Japan earthquake...

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 08:05
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Actually i had a similar dream... it just scared me... I live for my kids so anything that obstructs their future is terrifying to me... but then again its not hard to be scared if you have kids... i dont think ive ever been afraid of anything other then being a bad parent... which now i realize means your scared of everything...

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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 09:41
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Quote: "Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:12 Edited: 11th Mar 2011 22:13 | link | toggle
Heh, the fabled BC "big one". My parents talked about that when they were young even. Today I was flying into San Franciso when it happened. Freaky!


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:13 | link | toggle
Sorry Jeku, I locked this as you posted. Thought with having another thread on this, people could post in there.

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:15 | link | toggle
No prob BiggAdd. I'm posting from an iPad and figured I accidentally locked it


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:20 Edited: 11th Mar 2011 22:23 | link | toggle
Good show!

Seeing as we are both here, we could take this thread hostage and turn it into our very own box fort.



Nobody else could post and we would be completely safe from dragon or troll attack.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:29 | link | toggle
You can never be safe from a troll attack



A man will one day wear a tophat in glasgow on a sunny day juggeling grapes while humming the jurrasic park theme tune.
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:33 Edited: 11th Mar 2011 22:33 | link | toggle
Nooo!! The Box fort is ruined! Who would have thought that cardboard burns so easily? This box fort was a terrible idea!

We need to contain the flames in case they spread to the other topics.
To the banhammermobile!

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KeithC
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:43 | link | toggle
You guys are all banned; now don't post again....I mean it!

-Keith

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Mar 2011 22:47 Edited: 11th Mar 2011 22:47 | link | toggle
Quote: "You guys are all banned; now don't post again....I mean it!"



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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 09:24 | link | toggle
This should be done with more topics.

a.k.a WOLF!
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 15:05 | link | toggle
A wild "Ron Erickson" appears.
BiggAdd uses "Baguette to the Head" . . .
It's super effective!"
That was classic.... and should have a sticky...

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 10:37
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Some of you dont know about the pacific ring of fire. Basically all those areas are on the edges of tectonic plates:

Which is where all the volcano / earthquakes, etc occur.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 13:15 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 13:15
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Quote: "Which is where all the volcano / earthquakes, etc occur."


All the big ones certainly. We had a small earthquake, a mild tremor I suppose, a few miles from here a few years ago - it broke some crockery in a local pub. Most of those who felt it probably dismissed it as local quarry blasting. But it was an earthquake - at least that's what the local press called it. I guess the main tectonic plate movements cause stress away from the junctions between them so that minor creases and folds can appear almost anywhere. The main earthquakes happen as you say where a plate is pushing against another plate and suddenly slips - a bit like pushing a chisel along a rough stone surface.

The present complication of the damaged nuclear plant must be very distressing to all concerned. Everyone just wants to get on with cleaning up and rebuilding but, instead, they are having to worry about an uncertain nuclear threat as well. Japan is certainly unlucky with its geographical location.

I don't know much about the operation of nuclear plants but I guess the problem is that they can't shut it down properly till the core has been cooled and it's that which has failed. I assume that if the components of the core can be physically isolated, either by distance or a radiation proof barrier (such as lead?), then the reactor core will cease to function and will cool down of its own accord. I suppose it needs to be cooled first before that can be done. Makes you wonder about the safety of other plants. Does anyone know for sure what is involved in shutting down a reactor?
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 13:24
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somethin somethin... critical reaction, and when you pull the control rods out, the reactor can't go critical anymore... somethin somethin...

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TheComet
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 13:35
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The power plant was actually designed to withstand huge earthquakes like that, and sure enough, it did. When the earthquake came, the power plants safety procedure was activated and the cooling rods were injected into the cores, and tones of water was pumped through to cool down the cores. It takes around 2 days until the cores are considered "off". Unfortunately, the tsunami destroyed the generators powering the water pumps... The pressure started to build from the boiling water, in fact, I think it was so hot that it split the water atoms into hydrogen and oxygen. This later on lead to an explosion. The core's shell wasn't damaged after the explosion, but there was no more water to cool, which would lead to a meltdown. The cores can operate between 250°C and 1200°C, though I think now they are a lot hotter

That's as much as I know for now...

TheComet

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 13:40
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA
O_o

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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 19:12 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 19:14
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The reactor in Japan is much worse than they're letting on.

Of the three reactors which were active, the fuel rods are already melting and caesium isotopes have already been detected outside the reactor. The only place ceasium isotopes are formed is inside the reactor which means the casing must be damaged, or a valve has broken, but the damage can't be too bad or the radiation would be higher. The more the fuel rods melt the less effective the control rods are at stopping the reaction. The top of the fuel rods are not covered in water, so the heat can't escape and they can't pump more water in because the pressure is too great. There's almost guaranteed to be at least a partial melt-down. Luckily there is not enough radioactive material in any single reactor for it to reach critical mass, so the worst that can happen is that it melts through the bottom and keeps going, leaving behind lots of radioactive material but no explosion.

The really worrying part is the reactors which had been taken offline. The fuel rods for them are stored in a massive pool of water when not in use. The water cools them and helps shield the fuel rods from each other. The reactors had been taken offline not that long before the earthquake and the fuel rods were still very hot and radioactive. For some reason the pool which should be full of water is empty at the moment, and the fuel rods are heating up which suggests that the casing of the rods is damaged and they are being stored too close together.

My theory is that the caesium isotopes produced in the reaction came into contact with the water because one fuel rod casing was damaged by the earthquake or tsunami causing an explosion which damaged the containers of the other fuel rods and let the rest of the water escape (See this for what happens when you put caesium in water, bearing in mind that it's fake because caesium is so many times more dangerous than that!).

The really worrying thing is that there is easily enough radioactive material in this storage container to reach critical mass. If the fuel rods melt further the uranium could form a pool at the bottom of the container and reach critical mass, which is the same as setting off a nuclear bomb. The japanese may have handled the earthquake well but they weren't prepared for the tsunami and they've handled the problem with the reactor very badly. They seem more concerned about covering it up than saving lives. You'd think they'd have learned from what happened at Chernobyl that covering it up is not the way to go.

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lazerus
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 20:11 Edited at: 17th Mar 2011 20:12
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These are men and women who deserve every ounce of respect from the world;

Fu-kushima 50

Just to correct it though, theres 182 workers on rotating shifts

Dosnt like Fu-ku together


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 20:33
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Quote: "Luckily there is not enough radioactive material in any single reactor for it to reach critical mass"


Is that true? I thought you needed to have the critical mass in order to get the chain reaction at all. The rate of the chain reaction can be controlled by isolating the various parts of the critical mass - in the same way that an atom bomb doesn't explode or even generate heat until the different parts of the critical mass are forced together.

But it's a long time () since I studied any of this so I could be way off the mark.
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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 23:42
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Uranium will decay anyway given time, so any amount of uranium will generate heat which can be used for power. More of it will generate exponentially more power as chain reactions are more likely to occur. I don't believe nuclear reactors actually have critical mass for safety reasons, they just have enough that the heat generated by spontaneous decay and the following chain reactions is enough to generate a significant amount of power.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 15:47 Edited at: 18th Mar 2011 16:01
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I'm fairly sure that isn't true - otherwise why all the worry about a possible meltdown?

Perhaps we need to do a Google?

Edit I think this covers it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass

Looks like you can't have a working reactor unless you have at least the critical mass. The point is to control the sustained chain reaction caused by the critical mass.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 19:47
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Quote: "Watch they dont make a movie about it because its somewere far away and no one cares..."

If by "they" you mean Hollywood I agree, there is still a lot of racism towards japan, my friend said he saw americans on a forum saying stuff like "that's for pearl harbour!" Idiots, then someone else pointed out that after hurricane Katrina, Japan gave more aid than the US government.
There will be a film about the Chilean miners though.
It's so disgusting that events like these get abused by film producers for an easy buck. It's like picking a dead man's pocket.


Everything worthwhile requires effort.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 20:34
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Yeah, I saw a compilation of facebook comments on a website somewhere of racist idiots basically saying things like: "that one's for pearl harbour" or "That's Karma". It's not as if America didn't get their own back, Hiroshima anyone?

But I've come to terms with the fact that this world is made up of a great number of idiots, so it's no surprise that they come out of the wood work in a time of crisis. All you can do is stand and laugh in their faces, reason never works.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 20:43
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People jump to conclusions and blurt them out without thinking, the internet makes this even easier. Why does everyone have to have an opinion on everything these days, even when they know absolutely nothing about the subject? When was the last time you heard someone say "I don't know enough about that to make a judgement". People don't seem to think any more. They just vent crap on the internet and suffocate all the good things on the internet.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 00:06
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Between Hiroshima and Fu.kushima, I think Japan understand the dangers of nuclear power.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 01:01
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japanese are smart resoursful, organised people, i am sure they can take care of a meltdown. Just wait 2-3 years till they rebuild their industry and they will be cranking out robots and playstations like nothing ever happened

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 01:24
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And as Japan's coast moved, the earth's axis also shifted (4 inches). This was significant quake. The nuclear problem is now at the level of the "Three Mile Island" nuclear problem that had me soiling my shorts back in the late 1970's, because I was nearby. That problem abated, but this current problem could get worse.
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