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Geek Culture / Philosphy

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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 05:58
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if no one knows about philosophy.. well.. dont read this, i just decided to post some philisophy questions.

this isnt really a question, just a little weird story.
(the moral is, of all the religions in the world, one has to be right.. this is not meant to offend anyone either...)
(i'm not sure if it was budists either, but i think that was it)
A computer programmer was hiered to make a computer print out a long list of gods names by budists. The Budists believed their reason to live is to print out all of god's names. When tey finished, suppoosedly the world was to end, becuase they had no more reason to live. And they had certain rules of what they can be, such as only 1 letter can be used twice, ect.
So when the programmer is finished he already had a plane ticket, becuase he thought when the program finished running and the budists realised the world didn't end, they would be angry and come after him. So he had it all planned out. So he's sitting in the airport ready to leave, and he looks at his watch and realises the program has finished running, all the names have printed out. So he looks out into the night sky, and sees all the stars going out one, by one.....

hope this doesnt offend anyone in someway, but its philosophy (the love of wisdom)

question:
Prove to me that we are here, and we arent dcreaming this, or me, or you, are figmants of someones imagination.
Prove that the world isnt just a cell in this giant, and all the planets are just single cells.
If you found out there was a treasure chest at the bottom of this well thousands and thousands of feet deep, and there was no possible way to get it, would it be better to know it's there? or not to know?

ok, if you know anythign on philosophy, post here.. i guess..

You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:08
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A: physics

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HZence
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:09
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Here's a few of my philosophies (copyright 2003 me)

1. The concept of reality is a mirage. Reality is in the eye of the beholder. Every human being blindly believes that their perception of reality is truth; therefore, the only truth is that no human can comprehend truth.

2. It is impossible for any one human not to be opinionated in some form. Though one may believe part of an issue to be true, another may disagree and claim to know the exact opposite to be true. Hence, it may be nearly impossible for each side to alter their opposition's idea of fact, making each individual opinionated.

Dictionary.com definition of "Opinionated" - Holding stubbornly and often unreasonably to one's own opinions.

Ironically enough, all of this is just my opinion, making me opinionated - and proving my point.

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:16
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If I made a God list, the world would end very quickly for me, because for me there are no Gods.

Quote: "Prove to me that we are here, and we arent dcreaming this, or me, or you, are figmants of someones imagination."

If I'm a dream then I'm your worst nightmare Muhahahaha

Quote: "Prove that the world isnt just a cell in this giant, and all the planets are just single cells."

If this were true then I would be very concerned about which part of this giants body Earth was in

And as for the Treasure thing, If I knew it was there then I would do my Daffy Duck impersonation: IT'S MINE, MINE ,MINE, MINE....

As you can see I know not or care about philosophy

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:21 Edited at: 14th Oct 2003 06:23
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Wow, congradulations on discovering plagarism.

That's a (poorly written) plot sypnosis of a short story by Arthur C. Clarke called The Nine Billion Names of God.

The moral of the story was not that 'one religion has to be right'. The story was written by a Christian, from a Christian perspective, and had no particular 'meaning' other than 'Christianity is the right religion', which is what 99% of all religion-oriented stories say about their authors' religion. I don't agree with the moral, but I think it's a good story.


HZense-- your logic was sound up until this point- 'and proving my point.' At that point you say that because you have proved yourself to be opinionated, the whole world must be opinionated (following your thesis)-- bad logic. Yeah, that's just 'my opinion', but if the human race is going to make ends meet, logic the best way to do it .


Edit-- Oh, as for your questions...

1- Grass is green; proof supplied.
2- The sky is blue; proof supplied.
3- If the well was thousands and thousands of feet deep, the chest would be burned to cinders from the heat of the core of the earth, and all the treasure inside would melt/burn. So it wouldn't matter either way.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Arrow
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:32
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1) That story is BS, The Budists don't worship any gods, the seek enlightenment. That crack about one regiloin being right, who sayes? Why couldn't none or all of them be correct. In fact alot of Budist ideals are common in Hinduism and Shintoism.

2)"Prove to me that we are here, and we arent dcreaming this, or me, or you, are figmants of someones imagination." Prove to me that we aren't. You rely to much on phiysical stimuluse to define your reality. If we were in a dream or imagination of someone else wouldn't we still exist? By simplely thinking, we exist, it doesn't matter whither if we have pysical form or not. "I think, there for I am". Existance is a state of mind, not body.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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PoHa!84
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:44
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yeah... way to go arrow. That's along the lines of what I was going to post (the second part, anyway)

Here's some philosophy for you, I think:

How do we know that each other's perception of any given color is the same? (ie: even though to someone the color of grass is red and the color of a stop sign is green, they have always associated red with... well... red, and green with... um... green.)

Man... It's harder to describe what I was thinking of than I thought... kinda like describing the color blue to a man who's been blind/colorblind his whole life...

Destroy you with my mind, I could!
. Cool, he is. Play his games, I do.
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:50
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What is Mind?
Doesn't Matter.

What is Matter?
Nevermind.

hehehe

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:53 Edited at: 14th Oct 2003 06:54
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Ah yes, the wise words of Homer Simpson

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:54
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hehe

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Easily Confused
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:56
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Leaves of three, let it be,
Leaves of four, eat some more.



Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 06:57
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PoHa!-- Yeah, kinda like what Mouse says in the Matrix (hehe, I'm wise).

That really bugged me when I was around 7 years old. I finally got to like it though because I decided that the reason my singing voice only sounded good to me was that everyone else was hearing it wrong.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:19
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Easily Confused: LMAO at ure sig

"this little tree needs a friend"


As for all this weird stuff, there is one thing that can give me the chills every time i think about it...Try to imagine if there was nothing. Not even a big black space, just..NOTHING lol. Sometimes it will just hit you and it will send a chill down your spine...well at least it does for me...Kinda like if you try to imagine eternity lol.

I guess thats one reason I dont want to be an athiest...It would just SUCK to think that when you die you just blink out of existance lol. I think I'll stick to being Agnostic and just live life not worrying about it. Afterall, there is no way to fully prove anything...lol, and that isn't a proven fact, but neither is that, oh and that one too, yep that too. Crap i've caught myself in an endless loop, but i can't prove it. But i can't prove that i can't prove it. Why can't I prove it? because it can't be proven, but I can't prove that it can't be proven. CRAP!


Argh! Now i'll never get to sleep!(but that isn't a proven fact, i might sleep fine, and i might not sleep at all, it all depends on which reality I observe ...After all, The cat is not dead until someone opens the box and observes it to be dead)


Yep, thats my confusing post of the day...I hope I was able to make some of you say "WTF is that guy talking about?"... now to go get some cheetos and watch Trigger Happy TV

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Plystire
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:29 Edited at: 14th Oct 2003 07:47
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You guys, you guys. Philosophy is only yourself confusing yourself, and the attempt to confuse others by convincing them that the only way is the way you see it.

PoHa!84: It has been proven that all colors are the same for each person. Because if the colors weren't the same, illusions such as darkness or complimentary colors would be negated and nothing would appear to be the same to anyone other than the person who saw it. As Mouse said "Point proven"
btw, I think the real question here is, "What does a bind man see, if impulses are still being sent from the eyes to the brain?"

Mouse: Grass being green and the sky being blue has nothing to do with proven that this isn't all a dream. my dreams (if you could call them that) are in color and the color is exactly what it is in reality (if it is reality ). So, who's to say this "dream" isn't any different in association with color?

Easily Confused: Yes yes yes....your name says it all. You sound very closed minded. Have fun in that box.

Frankly, I think the real question we should be asking is "Why am I here? Is spending time on this forum questioning the universe really worth my time?"

~PlystirE~
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HZence
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:29
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The reason I'm probably going to be agnostic my entire life is because no matter what christians/atheists say, they can never prove each other wrong. For atheists its all "scientific evidence" and "i can't see god therefore he isn't there", while for christians its "i know i'm right because this little book right here says so and there's no possible chance it could ever be wrong because well like i just said i'm right."

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:33
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Woo! I'm not the only Agnostic here

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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HZence
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:38
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Yeah, my one philosophy proves I'm agnostic:

"The only truth is that human beings cannot comprehend truth"

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:39
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plystire-- hardly... vision in all in our head, as is what people say to us and the world around us... how do you know that proof is proof? Tch tch.


'Try to imagine if there was nothing.'

There can't be nothing, because if there was nothing, it'd be something. I find that comforting.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:45
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I just like to think of it as "We are all energy, and Energy cannot be destroyed" ...Oh, I was reading a news article the other day that said studies have shown that the universe may not be infinite. It may be laced together like and in the shape of a soccer ball. Just thought that was Interesting. But then the question arises, what is outside of the universe?


here is the artical
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s963572.htm

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:46
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Quote: "Easily Confused: LMAO at ure sig"

You are the first (and probably the last) to take any notice of it

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Plystire
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 07:58
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Well a lot of things have been "proven". And still many people don't believe it.

I remember on one TV show some guy mathematically proved the existance of God! Doesn't mean with this proof, everyone's going to become Christian.

It's like the old world. When king's ruled and philosophers had SUCH a hard time arguing their point, because if the king disagreed their heads were cut off. Until one guy (who came up with the thoguth of the existance of atoms) went to the king and said "Everything is made up of several trillions of pieces of material. BUT! They're invisible to the naked eye. Now, prove me wrong!" LOL but it wasn't until later that we, guess what? Proved him RIGHT!

Philosophies are always going to be philosophies until they have argumentable facts to back them up! I could say that the universe is something someone made up in their mind and that is the only place we exist is in their thoughts. And every person with that person has thought up their own universes and I could start a whole new religion. But I won't because my ethical values keep me from lying to people and expecting them to believe me and follow my own thoughts.

Go ahead, CALL me a hypocrite.

~PlystirE~
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 08:09
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Plystire - Prove that mathematics are in fact real, and not just a figment of someone or something's imagination. They are only real to what we can comprehend. Example: Try to imagine an object, that is there, but isn't there at the same time. Or try to imagine a hole that is 3 feet wide but has no walls and no boundaries. Its impossible to our comprehension, just as sight is beyond a blind man's comprehension, but its true to us, why? because we have observed it. To us, nothing is true until it is observed. So technically what HZence has said is pretty much right. "The only truth is that Human Beings can't comprehend truth", but i would add one thing, and that is "until they have observed truth".


Aaron

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Plystire
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 08:26
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Oh, thank you, Grim, for bringing up such a wonderful point

A hole is a hole is a hole is a HOLE! A hole is nothing more than the absence of something. Therefore, unless nothing exists, a hole MUST have boundaries. And according to your "truth" since we have observed these materials, a hole must, therefore, have a boundary.

Mathematics is, as you said, nothing more than something we use to comprehend things easier. If mathematics did not exist, it would at some point be invented to make ease of such things as trade and other delights we take for granted today Can you imagine going to the supermarket to get some milk (or whatever) and when you go to buy it, (without mathematics that is) what would the cashier say?? They can't say "2 dollars" or "A buck" or "2 oranges" (if you were trading) because all of those imply the use of numbers! Mathematics is man-made! Just as time is. "Time" may pass and we age, but what is time? Time, young grasshopper, is how we comprehend........oh god, how can this be explained? MOTION!! (what am I THINKING?!?) Motion cannot be explained without the use of time. Nor can we explain aging without time. Nor can we explain the existence of ANYthing without time. Time and Mathematics are essential in understanding.

Had you not taken the "time" to read this, you would not understand my views, either!!

*takes a deep breath* lordy, that took some brain power lol

~PlystirE~
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 08:39
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You are only excercising my point further

To us, Time is the measurement of the movement of matter through space. And we use mathematics to measure Time, amount of objects, etc. So essentially, they are only used to measure the things that we have observed and comprehended to be true. I go back to my object being there and not being there at the same time example. Now, if you were to observe that, then what mathematical equation would you use to prove it? is it in the ammount of 1? no...is it in the ammount of 0? no... So what is it? we would have to completely rebuild our system of mathematics. And when you say that a hole is just the absense of something and that it absolutely MUST have boundaries, well that REALLY pushes my point foward, as you are only relying on what you have observed and what you can comprehend. Again, to a blind man, Sight and color absolutely DOES NOT exist, until and if he suddenly regains sight and OBSERVES IT.


Aaron

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 08:50
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oh and one more thing. When you say:

"And according to your 'truth' since we have observed these materials, a hole must, therefore, have a boundary."

I see where you are coming from. But you have mis-interperated my point. I do believe that we have to observe something to make it true to us, but just because we observe it doesn't necisarily mean that it IS true. So that pretty much just comes down to "human beings cannot comprehend truth until they observe it". And the way I see it, as long as people still have opinions, we have not discovered truth.


Aaron

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Kharnor
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 15:20
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I was just reading the article that Grim_Reaper was talking about earlier.
Whoa. It's weird. If you go out one side of the universe, you come in the other side. Does this mean that if you looked out of the universe, you could see the back of your own head? (with a powerful enough telescope, of course.)

It's like those Halls of Mirrors they always have at ciruses and stuff, and you'd be standing between two mirrors and you'd be trying to see into infinity, but you never could because your head always got in the way.

Current project:
Adventure game for alienware comp (-5% complete: Yep, still going backwards)
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PoHa!84
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 18:13
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Quote: "PoHa!84: It has been proven that all colors are the same for each person. Because if the colors weren't the same, illusions such as darkness or complimentary colors would be negated and nothing would appear to be the same to anyone other than the person who saw it."


No, you just didn't understand what I was saying. *sigh* I knew I wouldn't be able to explain it right...

Lemme try again, anyways.

Ok: imagine a color wheel, and another color wheel around the outside of that one, with all the colors matching up. Now, turn the outer wheel such that the opposites of the inner and outer wheel line up. Now, black is still black, white is still white, because they really aren't colors persay, but anyways... if someone saw the outside color wheel, but called things by the inside color wheel, and you saw colors according to the inside color wheel and called them thusly, then how could you know that the way that you see those colors are correct? If this other person was always taught that what he percieved to be green was actually red to other people, then how would he know it? Fire would look green, stop signs would look green, and blood would look green, but all he ever knew to call it was red, because that's the way he was taught...

lol... this is probably more confusing than my first post...

Destroy you with my mind, I could!
. Cool, he is. Play his games, I do.
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Arrow
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 18:27 Edited at: 14th Oct 2003 18:29
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Philosophy is a parrdox, you ask a question, to answer that question you must ask more questions, if you indeed answer the original question, then your only left with more questions. It's self defeating yet constantly rejuvenating, it's a near-pefect entity (perfection is flaw, if something becomes perfect, it stops evolving, thus stops existing).

When it comes to religion, I don't mind whatever Religion you are as long as you're not closeminded, hence I despise most Athiest and Chirstians. Personally, I follow aspect of Shintoism, but that's justy me, as long as you contenue to learn from others and keep an open mind, I got no beef with you.

I thought of a really cool existance theory awhile back, before I start remember that this a purly spritual aspect, it doesn't explain anything else. Before we came to exist now, we were free form and liquid, yet we couldn't focus , so we entered a phycial form. By doing so we were limited to only base functions, yet because of that they became focused. The energy transfered from brain cell to brain cell allows us now to act in ways which before it wasn't possible, however we are still flawed. We are still limited to a physical form, we have our bounderies, thus we die. When we die we loose our physical form and our limits, yet we still retain the abillity to focus it. To better explain think of a lake as the first form, the second (existance as we know it) is a small concrete groove creating a small stream leading to the sea. When we die the concrete disappears, allowing the stream to expand to what ever size the lake sees fit.

I suspect there are more stages afterwards, but I can't imagine them yet, I'm still traped into 3 demensional thinking. I know while I dream my thinking is far more vast, the problem is that I can't remember it much and when I do it's very confusing. For example once I was just about to fall asleep and a was woke for some reason. Just befor I was awoke I somehow imagined a 3d object that had only four sides, but was shaped like a d8 dice (for those not into D&D, basicly two pyramids with square bases stuck together at the bases). I don't know how I thought of that shape but it was very interesting.

Quote: "No, you just didn't understand what I was saying. *sigh* I knew I wouldn't be able to explain it right..."
Heh heh, I know exacly what you mean, PoHa!84. I used to tyhink of that everytime I was coloring with crayons when I was 5.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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Eric T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 19:07
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ugh Philosophy....

heres something to think about..

If i were to fall in a bottomless pit, would i come out the other side of the earth?

(p.S) as i see the subject of religion is in here.... i'll tell you now.. i am Athiest with a little bit of Satanist in me... plus a lot of insane

A Dream is a Dream unless it is Real
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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 19:26
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Grim_Reaper and Plystire-- a note-- while agreeing which each other is quite nice, don't try to tell others what to believe when it comes to religion. Simply saying 'This is the truth, if you don't believe it you're an idiot' won't convince anyone. Personally I see several holes in your theories that you wouldn't agree with because you don't share my beliefs-- but that dosen't mean I'm going to clobber you over the head with them.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 20:30
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Here's my 2 cents -

Use philosophy to ask or answer questions that are actually useful, otherwise don't bother.

Might seem like a harsh point of view, but I dont see any point in asking if we're really here. While you spend your time asking yourself if it's all real, I'll be off shagging your sister, and enjoying myself a whole lot more than you.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 20:38
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Fallout makes a very good point

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 23:26
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Quote: "Grim_Reaper and Plystire-- a note-- while agreeing which each other is quite nice, don't try to tell others what to believe when it comes to religion. Simply saying 'This is the truth, if you don't believe it you're an idiot' won't convince anyone. Personally I see several holes in your theories that you wouldn't agree with because you don't share my beliefs-- but that dosen't mean I'm going to clobber you over the head with them.
"


lol, a classic case of the text syndrome...i think you read my posts thinking i was using a forceful tone...nah, I was just stating my views ...I like these kind of discussions, but I wasn't trying to force it on anyone.

Aaron

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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 23:27
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Fallout: But some people actually ENJOY these kinds of discussions lol

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Magpie
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Posted: 14th Oct 2003 23:37
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We're all here to find out why we're here.

What if we're all just extra runtime on god's gigantic computer?

Should we kill ourselves to save lag time?

If there is a god, could he reply to this thread please?

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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 00:11 Edited at: 15th Oct 2003 00:12
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hmm.. critisisation, my teacher told me that little story, i jus trepeated what i remembered, go yell at him....
what if we are al jus Artificial Intelligence in a Real-time computer game?i didnt read all ur posts tho.. i jus read first few

You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 00:14
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The example about people seeing colours differently is something that I have considered myself. But maybe optical illusions wouldn't work for everone if that were true.

I find it odd that blind people don't actually see black!

I find it odd that light only travels to the viewpoint of an observer.

We are here because it's hard to be perfect in an eternity of Heaven.

Pincho.
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 00:50 Edited at: 15th Oct 2003 00:53
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no one here is in medicine, right? No one here underSTANDS what a blind person sees because they DON'T know WHY he's blind!! His view is exactly like ours except with a cloud so close to his vision that he can't see anything! Now what do we see when someone holds something in front of us that ligh cannot penetrate (completely)? We see...guess what? Black. But sometimes light CAN penetrate this cloud. and since the cloud (which we can see if we look closely at a blind man's eyes) is a white color. The blind man would see shades of grey depending on the amount of light reaching his eyes.

About the color wheel turning, I know what you mean. Complimentary colors would still be complimentary, but in place of another color. So what you are saying is, if the red and green M&Ms are in someone's hand and the red to them is......say blue. Then the green MUST be orange! Is that what you mean?

Liquidz: I believe you would either burn up in an inferno of flames or (supposing you can't and there really WAS a hole that went through the earth) would eventually reach the side of the earth with the opposite direction of gravity and begin falling the other way. Going back and forth and back and forth until the force becomes so small that you stop in the dead center.

Mouse: I don't wanna even start. Where did we pick up ths idea of "Let's put words in each other's mouths?" Me and Grim were sharing our opinions, and we never once said "This is how it is and if you don't agree, then screw you."

Helix: If god had a computer then where'd he get the material if nothing existed? Who's to say HE wasn't made up? Who's to say HE wasn't some extra memory on someone's hard drive??? If we made AI, how would they feel about not being "real"?

I like Einstein's theory of gravity and his experiment using the sheet. Where the heavier objects made a large dent and the les heavier objects were attracted to them. Well A black hole would just be this huge hole in the sheet. Now, think of time as a layer of sheets where the future is above and the past is below. So supposing we fell INTO a black hole, we would be dropped down the to the sheet where the star was before it blew up and we would disintegrate! Now if we COULD survive in the star, there's still the problem of the black hole that is just about to develope and force us to be stuck in this endless loops of "Star Blowing up, Go back in time, Star Blowing up, go back in time....etc."

Well, yea.

~PlystirE~
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 01:04
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btw, i saw someone posted about the "see to infinite" thing with mirrors. I believe the only thing you would see is the true color of the mirror's glass. Because no matter how clear we make it, there is going to be some kind of color to it that will cloud our vision eventually.

Or the mirrors aren't PERFECTLY parallel and the tunnel will curve off at some point.

But it is kinda cool to see a bazillion yous in the mirror

~PlystirE~
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 01:19
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Quote: "no one here is in medicine, right? No one here underSTANDS what a blind person sees because they DON'T know WHY he's blind!! His view is exactly like ours except with a cloud so close to his vision that he can't see anything! Now what do we see when someone holds something in front of us that ligh cannot penetrate (completely)? We see...guess what? Black. But sometimes light CAN penetrate this cloud. and since the cloud (which we can see if we look closely at a blind man's eyes) is a white color. The blind man would see shades of grey depending on the amount of light reaching his eyes."


This doesn't sound like a totally blind man to me. You actually are referring to someone with limited vision. Blind people can't see anything, not even black. Haven't you seen the programs about blind people that get their sight back by an operation. they always tell us that they didn't see black, they didn't see anything at all. OK it's hard to imagine.

Pincho.
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 01:25
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and how did they get their vision back? By removing the cloud, right? Laser Eye surgery, perhaps?
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 01:36
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No..that is for a partially sighted person. These people needed more intense operations. Maybe on the back part of their eyes.
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:02 Edited at: 15th Oct 2003 02:04
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I think what I'm trying to say is, as long as their eyes were still functioning and sending impulses to the brain, they MUST have seen something.

Everything can be described. Just not easily

~PlystirE~

[EDIT]
Or, they could have seen things with their imagination. Like when we start to think of something SO in depth that we don't realize what we are actually seeing with our real eyes. It's all with the "mind's" eye
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Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:15
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Well i dunno, would the mind really be able to picture it if it has never been introduced to it? hmm...interesting lol

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:18
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I guess this is where natural instincts comes into play.

Your mind is made with natural instructions on how things should work. Obviously, since we are talking about a natural born blind person (as Grim just informed me) the body has "seen" that something must be wrong and maybe blanked it out. You know, just ignored it.

Ok, I feel stupid trying to prove myself wrong.......shutting up.

Pincho, why don't you take this side before I take both, please?

~PlystirE~
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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:27
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hmmm... yay! i'm almost a red topic! whoo hoo!
how do we know that our eyes send things up to our brain? we dont really have any proof, our eyes can think up things, and we can see that they're their, what about people that hullicinate, mabey they are just by passing the eye's tricks and getting into the real world partly, until knocked back to the eye's tricks. We cant really prove anything, scientists may think that, it may make sence, btu hey, anything's possible...

You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:37 Edited at: 15th Oct 2003 02:38
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Because we have detected electrical impulses that our brain comprehends coming from our eyes.

If anything is possible, then go live in Atlantis and send me a post card some time

~PlystirE~
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 02:42
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You are missing my main point though that the blind people themselves say that they see nothing, not even black. If they are the ones telling us that after they get their sight back, they must be right. They are quoted as saying that black is actually a sight. they have no imagination of what things look like either, they tell us that. Surely you believe them?

Pincho.
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Darksyde
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 03:03
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and dont forget there are ppl who are blind that actually dont have eyes (thru accidents or birth) so none of this cloud stuff for them i take it. thing is when i close my eyes i cant even work out what colour i see, it confuses me to think about. argh damn philosophy



Athlon 2200 XP, 512MB RAM, Geforce 4 128MB
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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Oct 2003 03:27
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If you all enjoy this sorta discussion, then that's fair enough. All I know is, if we're not really here, and it's all just some crazy dream as a figment of some aliens twisted imagination, then I personally intend to make my aliens dream as pleasurable as possible.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
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