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Geek Culture / How do torrent sites like piratebay never get shutdown?

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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:17
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Everyone is against there work being put out free and everything but yet sites like piratebay arnt shutdown? Why arent sites like these not shutdown?
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AutoBot
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:18
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My friend, to be honest... I have no clue.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:28
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Speaking of torrents, how do you use BitTorrent? What stuff can you download from a torrent legally? Is there anything that distinguishes legal torrents from illegal ones?

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uzi idiot
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:28
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I'm sure the Pirate Bay has been shut down before (the original owner got sued a ton of money), but people bought it over and over again.


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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:38
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Almost all torents are illegal

Recomended toreent download...(i dont download torrents to much virus risk ect

Vuze is one of the best and fastest torrent downloaders and its easy to use and you can instanly play the game with out hunting down the .exe but be carful if you are going to download torrents.

and i didnt know its been shutdown before
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Accoun
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:43 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2011 20:47
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Quote: "Speaking of torrents, how do you use BitTorrent? What stuff can you download from a torrent legally? Is there anything that distinguishes legal torrents from illegal ones?"

Download the torrent program (like uTorrent) and open a .torrent file you've downloaded (f.ex from a tracker website) with it. The rest is just logical.
You can download practically everything. Sadly there is no way to distinguish legal torrents from illegal, but IIRC Mininova changed their legal status and is hosting only approved torrents with free stuff (freeware, demos etc.). I personally haven't checked it out.
But for example, MGS Philantropy has torrent downloads on their official site, which I've used instead of DDL (since downloading >2GB of video isn't very convenient on my connection)...

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TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:44
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Torrents AREN'T illegal, because they don't contain illegal material. All torrents do is point to a file that is illegal to download. In Switzerland (where I live) it's legal to download anything you want, the UPLOADING is illegal So yeah, that's why torrent sites are impossible to shut down, because they aren't doing anything against the law.

TheComet

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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:48
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Hmm thats wierd that it isnt illegal in switerlan sure is in the U.S
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Accoun
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:49
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So yeah, torrents are legal, but using them (with exception of official ones) isn't. Quite a paradox.

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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:56
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very instresting paradox
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:59
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It's illegal in the UK...but noone cares.

Honestly, I went to a Skindred gig, and the lead singer himself said: "Buy the album, f*** it, download it too! I want people to hear my music - just buy a shirt or something if you do though!"

So I did. I'm gunna take that as legal permission.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:11
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that is legal permission if he tells you to since hes the owner but.........you have to buy a shirt...i hope his shirts are cool
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Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:15
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Punishing uploaders makes a lot of sense, trying to track down downloaders seems like mopping the floor before fixing the leaking pipe (making up metaphors is as difficult as learning to ride a bicycle in winter... when it's icy).

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:26
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Quote: ".you have to buy a shirt...i hope his shirts are cool"


Shirt was cool. I was gunna buy one anyway, but now it effecively comes with a free copy of the album.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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NIlooc223
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:27
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haha then why download it XD
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:40
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That's the point...buying the shirt gave me the permission to download the album...ergo free album.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Accoun
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 21:55
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Quote: "that is legal permission if he tells you to since hes the owner but.........you have to buy a shirt...i hope his shirts are cool "

Not sure about that. I think the copyrights belong rather to their label (guess it depends on the contract). I think that was the case with Testament IIRC - their old one was bought by a bigger one who had no interest in relasing metal CDs, so the band had no problems with getting/buying rights to their old CDs (without it they couldn't re-relase them or use songs from them on compilations etc.)...

But from what I've heard, the band are actually earning more money from gigs and merch these days rather than from CDs...

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:00
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Also I heard Hasbro aren't levelling any lawsuits against MLP uploads, as they see it as free advertising. So that's also legal.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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xplosys
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:10 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2011 22:10
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Quote: "Also I heard Hasbro aren't levelling any lawsuits against MLP uploads, as they see it as free advertising. So that's also legal."


That's a very confusing statement. Is that the criteria for legality? If you don't get sued it's legal? Just be sure that it's legal before you tell people it is.

Brian.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:16
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Well they're well aware of it, considering the largest Brony fansite actively advertises both torrent and YouTube links for the series. Hasbro say their money comes from the merch, not the show. Hence they believe the show being made as available as possible only helps their advertising for the merch.

As well as a few game projects and movies based on the IP. Not that I buy the merch anyway.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Rampage
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:22 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2011 22:25
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Quote: "In Switzerland (where I live) it's legal to download anything you want, the UPLOADING is illegal"

Ditto.
( I don't know what it is like in the rest of the world) Here, the form of piracy is to give other people software/other bought stuff without charge. Uploading included.
Downloading a movie, game, or software is completely legal as long as you don't give it away. Using it for personal use is fine.

But lets be honest, in most places of the world, no one cares. Torrents are VERY hard to track, and software exists that makes it even harder.
P2P downloading usually means (in a well seeded torrents case) thousands of people downloading at the same time you are, and at the same time streaming their already downloaded data, to you.
Ergo making it faster.

The choice though, is not a question of legality.

Its the question, "Do you want to exploit the very industries you want to achieve in?"

Thats my motive anyway.

Regards,

Max
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IanM
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:29
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Quote: "How do torrent sites like piratebay never get shutdown?"

They don't hold any copyrighted information, so they're not actually doing anything illegal.

Basically, they are like google, but for torrents. They just provide search and links.

You might suggest that linking to infringing material be made illegal ... but that fails too, simply because there are too many copyright owners that deliberately upload their own stuff and you can't tell which is which (http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/03/viacom-vs-youtube-inconvenient-truths.html), or that you may link to non-infringing material which later gets replaced.

I don't have any suggestions for an answer to this issue, which unfortunately puts me in the minority against the others who have many different answers (that all fail in one way or another :p )

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:37
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Also some companies have the very clever tactic to seed the internet with tonnes of broken torrents of their games. This floods out the functional ones and means attempted torrenters get irritated with the lack of functional downloads, and in theory, just buy the thing.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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lazerus
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:47
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Different nations/goverments laws allow these sites to exsist. Im probably in the small minority that use torrents for legal reasons. Like boucning work back an forth between friends around the world. Last thing i transfered was a 1Gb of work to USA and Scotland. (on a 200kbs upload *they werent amused*)

An whoever asked 'how do you tell if its legal or not' use common sense... If you see a movie that hasnt been realsed yet, Offering you it for free, its obviously not legal... Programs that require licenses that are not free are illegal to use/download.

However if you see something like 'My reference photo pack' or personal work ect ect that person is sharing it for others to see.

Hell vanilla minecraft is on the piratebay which i downloaded since i screwed mine up and i needed a earlier version for the server i frequent. Yes you still require a paid account to play it an yes its pretty dam handy.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 22:50
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Not 100% true Laz, if you fail the login and click play offline, the launcher assumes Minecraft.net is down and lets you play offline for free. However you can't update or play online, so it's cut down a heck of alot.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 23:07
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There's a legitimate torrent for eclipse distributions:
http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/download.php?file=/technology/epp/downloads/release/indigo/R/eclipse-jee-indigo-win32-x86_64.zip


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Accoun
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 23:13
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Quote: "Not 100% true Laz, if you fail the login and click play offline, the launcher assumes Minecraft.net is down and lets you play offline for free. "

Wasn't it only when it finds it's userdata on the PC?

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 23:15
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I'm not sure about now, but I remember it doing that a while back with the old launcher.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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lazerus
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 23:34
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yup yup you need your user data in there for it to do that


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Quik
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 00:30
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havent read the whole thread:
downloading a torrent isnt illegal, the torrent webbsites (i know demonoid.me has it) usually has a "disclaimer mark" claiming theyre not responsible for the torrents.

most mmo free games usually post their games in torrent form for example..

and for the record, I am a man.

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IanM
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 00:35 Edited at: 24th Jun 2011 01:05
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@Lazerus,
Ah... you didn't really read my post then did you. Yes, a movie torrent most likely leads to infringing material, as do a lot of program torrents, but that wasn't at all what I was talking about.

I was talking about torrent sites being search engines, not infringers, and the suggestion that... Hold on, I'll copy and paste it again in the hope you'll read it this time :p
Quote: "You might suggest that linking to infringing material be made illegal ... but that fails too, simply because there are too many copyright owners that deliberately upload their own stuff and you can't tell which is which (http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/03/viacom-vs-youtube-inconvenient-truths.html), or that you may link to non-infringing material which later gets replaced."


If you go down that path, you are basically criminalising completely innocent people.

[EDIT]
Re-read, and I can't really tell if you were replying to me or someone else

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Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 02:14
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Quote: "What stuff can you download from a torrent legally?"


Linux

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Plystire
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 02:15
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I personally avoid torrents if at all possible. In the off chance that the only possible way to download what I'm looking for is via torrent, it normally ends up that I'm the only one looking for it and no body's seeding the thing.... ah, the joys of P2P networking.


~Plystire

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However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 02:46
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For movies released by torrent only check, http://www.vodo.net/film/allfilms. Who needs Hollywood

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t10dimensional
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 04:35
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Do bands really care? hah

http://www.pandora.com/music/album/system+of+down/steal+this+album+explicit


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Indicium
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 10:13
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I guess bands don't make as much money from CD's as they do from shows and merch.

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 12:52
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bands basicly dont make any money out of CDs: their cd producers thingys take almost all the money + the CDs get soo pirated... its basicly not worth making cds for anything else than fame and glory -> wich later on pays of on concerts.

and for the record, I am a man.

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lazerus
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 14:23 Edited at: 24th Jun 2011 14:26
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ahh sorry IanM quoting failed completly XD, it was aimed at Obese'

Quote: "Is there anything that distinguishes legal torrents from illegal ones?"


An i was talking about the content your getting from the torrent, should have made that a bit clearer aha

I was literally saying its common sense that if something requires you to buy it before use then its most likly illegal to use a torrent to get it for free and use it.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 16:36
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Quote: "Speaking of torrents, how do you use BitTorrent? What stuff can you download from a torrent legally? Is there anything that distinguishes legal torrents from illegal ones?"


I use torrents for downloading linux distros and whatever other software offers it. The difference is often times a 10x increase in download speed.

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RAXMUX Games
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 16:37
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I've read that some torrent downloaders program like utorrent have a trojan backdoor.
Dont know if it true because I never use torrents, but still , it could be bad for your PC
I think the proces names was somthing with btph... bla bla something.

Just call me Raxmux
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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 16:42
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Quote: "I've read that some torrent downloaders program like utorrent have a trojan backdoor."


Uh, no, not true. There may be some clients like bearshare or some stupid made to download pirated material clients offered on chinese hosts that will do that sort of thing. Most of the popular, open source, clients are perfectly fine. uTorrent, Vuze, rtorrent, transmission (my personal favorite) are all safe as long as you get them from their actual homepages.

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RAXMUX Games
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 17:09
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Quote: "Uh, no, not true. There may be some clients like bearshare or some stupid made to download pirated material clients offered on chinese hosts that will do that sort of thing. Most of the popular, open source, clients are perfectly fine. uTorrent, Vuze, rtorrent, transmission (my personal favorite) are all safe as long as you get them from their actual homepages."


Ok but I still dont trust em (call me paronoid if you want)

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 17:33
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yeah.. there's way too much trust put into such networks, in particular when distributing applications. At the end of day, you really don't know what you're getting when it doesn't come from the author.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 18:23 Edited at: 24th Jun 2011 18:23
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Quote: "yeah.. there's way too much trust put into such networks, in particular when distributing applications. At the end of day, you really don't know what you're getting when it doesn't come from the author."


Sure you do. You download the .torrent file from the author (I'd hope), and the .torrent file takes care of checking to make sure you're downloading what is expected. Any part of a file that doesn't match is rejected by your client and sourced again. Most clients will ban peers that send bad data. It's impossible to get data that isn't intended by the creator of the .torrent file.

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Quik
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ive been using utorrent for ages.... definitly not virus, however torrents that you download might contain it.

and for the record, I am a man.

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xplosys
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Quote: "It's impossible to get data that isn't intended by the creator of the .torrent file."


But in the case of illegal downloads, who created the .torrent?

As is the case with most technology, it is created/developed with good intentions. Torrents have a purpose and are advantageous when used responsibly.

Brian.

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 19:09
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Quote: "But in the case of illegal downloads, who created the .torrent? "


here is how it works: you make a .rar file (usually) and then upload it to the torrent site, and the torrent site creates a .torrent file for you to download.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 19:15
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Quote: "You download the .torrent file from the author (I'd hope), and the .torrent file takes care of checking to make sure you're downloading what is expected."


Many of the torrent 'authors' upload dodgy material.



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Blobby 101
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 19:26
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Not if you're downloading a legal torrent for genuinely free software, I assume that's what we're discussing here? If you're downloading illegal software through torrents then you deserve to get whatever viruses people care to put in their torrent.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 19:28
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Quote: "Not if you're downloading a legal torrent for genuinely free software, I assume that's what we're discussing here?"


Well yes, if you're downloading from the actual author of the software you should be mostly safe, but that accounts for possibly less than 0.001% of torrents.



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