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Geek Culture / My take on the U.S. Supreme Court Case regarding violent video games.

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MaskedMakrel
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 08:56
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My somewhat lengthy discussion of freedom of expression and the first ammendment as relates to the video game case is here:

http://kommune1541.blogspot.com/2011/06/i-remember-when-there-were-no-violent.html
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 09:35 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 10:47
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Ahah, I think this is a bit too political (Political talk is against the AUP for obvious reasons)

I see where you're coming from on most of your points, but some parts of what you wrote seemed to be in a angry/issue confronting tone, when I really had no idea what the issue was.

For example, this:
Quote: "According to the court, the psychologists report is basically rejected. Yup. The court did not simply say, well one person, who has a degree and is called doctor is unchallengeable. In fact, they basically had no problem in rejecting the evidence of a link between video games and violence."

seems to be in a tone angry at the supreme court, but it seems like you consider their decision a good one.

Basically, the tone conflicting with the facts confused me a lot while reading that O_o


All in all I'm glad the supreme court ruled as they did.

[edit]
(inb4lock .gif edited out because I was wrong and now I just feel obnoxious. I'll definitely change i back if this thread gets locked though.)


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Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 09:36
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Quote: "The government cannot tell you what you can or can not play"


Unless you live in Australia

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Herakles
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:03
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This is a very good thing. My feeling of hopelessness and despair about modern society has just been alleviated ever so slightly. The Government has been overstepping it's bounds for so long, I had forgotten what it felt like when they acknowledged their constitutional limitations.

As a father, I never let my son play excessively violent video games, or watch such movies and television shows. But that was my choice as a parent. The Government has no business making that decision for parents.

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Fuzz
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:13
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Quote: "Unless you live in Australia"


This


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Isocadia
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:16
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Banning violent games is like banning children who play cowboy and indian, or who fight with sticks pretending it's swords, games are exactly the same as we did before, exept less childish.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:20
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Quote: "
As a father, I never let my son play excessively violent video games, or watch such movies and television shows. But that was my choice as a parent. The Government has no business making that decision for parents."


I wasn't allowed to see an R rated movie because my dad just dropped me and a friend off, and I couldn't see it unless he physically sat there with me throughout the whole movie. (Really. He was there at the ticket counter, and they said even with his permission, I couldn't watch it unless he was physically there. this was when I was 16, not 8, and was specific to R rated movies.)

but I have nothing to complain about when australians can't even play left for dead in half its glory without doing something illegal xD


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Hodgey
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:36
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Quote: "Unless you live in Australia"

Hey! but it's true. I don't really play video games anymore, too distracting from my studies, programming etc.

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Fuzz
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 10:55
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Quote: "but I have nothing to complain about when australians can't even play left for dead in half its glory without doing something illegal xD"


When you blow up infected they just disappear and when they catch on fire there's no fire!


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Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 11:02
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Quote: "Hey! but it's true."


I know it's true, I live in Australia.

Quote: "As a father, I never let my son play excessively violent video games, or watch such movies and television shows."


That's what is needed, and that alone: parental responsibility.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 11:12
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Parental responsibility? I thought that's what we had TVs for?

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Dr Tank
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 23:53
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Your blog post is TL and I DR most of it. Something about a censorship law not getting passed? I'm guessing that's a good thing. Wish we had more of bad law not getting passed this side of the Atlantic.
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MaskedMakrel
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 15:58
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For people outside of the US, I always point people towards Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive, and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 16:10
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Speech is only free until it offends someone, that's the sad truth.

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Quik
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 17:44
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Quote: "Speech is only free until it offends someone, that's the sad truth."


I would say it's the gratefull truth

and for the record, I am a man.

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mr_d
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 18:53
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@Quik
Quote: "I would say it's the gratefull truth"

And just to make a point of how much I disagree with that...
I am offended with your remark; and so by your own admission and agreement, you are no longer allowed to express your opinion or sentiments on this board

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Quik
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 18:59
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however what i meant is, that freedom of speech as in: we are allowed to say whatever we want, as long as we are not directly insulting a person..

dunno how how i should describe it: i will get back to the subject later today

and for the record, I am a man.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 19:49
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If young people have a craving for violence, is it better that they do it through a video game, or in real life? Just a thought. Correlation does not imply causation.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 19:59 Edited at: 29th Jun 2011 20:05
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Quote: "however what i meant is, that freedom of speech as in: we are allowed to say whatever we want, as long as we are not directly insulting a person.."

A person such as Kim Jong Il?
When checking the spelling I found a great website! http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

On correlation/causation, did you know that as the number of pirates around the world has decreased, global temperatures have risen!

This proves that decreasing pirate numbers is the main cause of global warming.

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Quik
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 20:23
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I believe this video covers the matter pretty well (the last mail that he answers, about 09:10 or so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQukrIaN_Q&feature=feedu

and for the record, I am a man.

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Hodgey
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 23:15
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Quote: "I know it's true, I live in Australia."

Oh yeah, I forgot, you were affected by that dreadful cyclone a while ago. How are you guys doing? I hope Queensland has recovered or is recovering well. The media tends to forget about natural disasters like this after a while.

I also agree that is should come down to parental responsibility and parental discretion.

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mr_d
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 12:52
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@Quik
Firstly, please pay me the fine for breaking our "law" that you would no longer post here; as once your rights are relinquished (however unintentionally or otherwise), or just plain taken away by stealth, trickery, or force - you will find it extremely difficult to get them back.
As to your subsequent post referring to the video; I'm not sure how that supports your point as it seemed to me that that Brit Guy's speal coincided with my point or side of the discussion...
All our rights must be actively defended lest we loose them piecemeal though non-action or succumbing to the general (i.e. mob) mentality and the promise of our safety guaranteed and protected.
That's my 2 cents anyway......

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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 13:41
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the cynical brit video was unrelated to our conversation, but more related to the actual topic of the thread.

oh, and please do sue me <3

and for the record, I am a man.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 20:47 Edited at: 30th Jun 2011 20:49
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I'm just glad I don't live in America atm then. This isn't the first time video game bans have been attempted there, am I right?

We have stupid people on either side of the pond, and scattereed everywhere else too. It's nice to know that when 10,000 of the dumber American public read a magazine and immediately adopt it's opinion as fact, that there are people who tell them to stfu and go blame foreign people for global warming or whatever other dumb crap they believe.

/Edit/

Good ol' RoosterTeeth:


What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 21:00
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A thing i think should actually be included in EVERY store in sweden, and not just Game stores, is that if u are below 18 u should have to show Legitimation of yout age if you are buying games of 16+ age (we have 16+ and 18+, not 17 like in USA and other countries )

also, maybe not so great when a parent to a 6 year old buys his kid a game like gears of war, when in belive its a Wall-E game

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 23:08
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Age limitations on games are stupid. If I can't buy a game I want, I just get my parents to buy it for me, and I'm sure that's what everybody else does.

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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 23:15
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Quote: "If I can't buy a game I want, I just get my parents to buy it for me,"


thats the point, your parents can buy it FOR you, to prevent 12 year olds to buy F.E.A.R without their parents knowing.

I know i wouldnt want my daughter to buy that, without me having controll over it.

I remember when i was around 12-14 (cant remember) i wanted this game... cant remember what, it had the age group of 16 anyway, they wouldnt let me buy it, at first i was like WTF NOOOOO but then, i was actually happy for it.

well in the end i did ask my mom to buy it from me, and she did, after looking at the CD for about an couple ages making sure it wasnt too brutal... xD

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 23:20
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I don't even get that. So what if it's 'brutal'. What does that change? Is it the argument that it makes people violent? Then surely the violence is exercised in game? I totally miss the point.

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Quik
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 23:30
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I dont think they become violent, in fact iam totally against that.

However, it would give the PARENT more controll over what their kid is playing: if they either show legitimation or they get the "okay mark" from the parent: for example, the game i wanted to buy, i needed to CALL my mother, and let them speak to her.

that would give the parents much more controll over it. Just the same as every parent might not want their 10year old kid go and rent a SAW movie

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 23:58
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That's the thing, maybe someone here can help shed light on it for me, why do parents disapprove of that? What harm can it possibly do?

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Quik
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 00:13
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psychic harm, i dont know if u noticed but there is kids who are NOT able to see blood, violence, psychically disturbing events, and so on

I for example: i couldnt even watch violence in KIDS MOVIES, like Mulan, i found it disturbing and scary, I couldnt stand blood before, heck i STILL have this image of Quake 4 imprinted in my brain when you get cyborged...

Everyone reacts differently to that kind of stuff, not everyone can watch a fictional character get his eyes poked out and be fine with it.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 00:30
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Quote: "So what if it's 'brutal'. What does that change?"


People mature at different rates, just because something brutal wouldn't affect you doesn't mean it couldn't affect someone else. I don't mean it would make them violent which seems to be the argument bandied about by the anti-gamer lobbyists. I remember watching A Nightmare on Elm Street when I was about 12 with one of my friends. To this day he is unable to watch the movie again because it affected him so much, just the thought of watching it brings him out in sweats. It's not a particularly scary movie either but at that age he was unable to deal with it in the same way he would have been able to if he had been a bit older. It didn't affect me at all, I still love that movie.

I'm all for rating games it helps parents make informed decisions about what their children should be playing. I love the Grand Theft Auto series but it's not a game for children and if I had children it's not a game I would let them play.

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GotAway
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 05:55
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Quote: " i couldnt even watch violence in KIDS MOVIES, like Mulan, i found it disturbing and scary"


Weak boys ruin the world for everyone.

If a tree falls in the forest and kills a woman - Wait.... why the hell is there a forest in the kitchen?
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 10:26
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@ OBese87:

Hahaha... next time I'm in a debate with somebody I'll use your pirate/global warming theory.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 19:58
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I think that limiting age is useless, I mean, here it's 16+ if there's some more advanced gore/blood spattering in it. For christ sake when I was 10 I saw people arm getting blown off in guess what.. the news. I think news should be 18+ for violence and sometimes even sexual content.
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 23:12 Edited at: 1st Jul 2011 23:13
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Quote: "when I was 10 I saw people arm getting blown off in guess what.. the news."


That's the thing I find the most annoying about people that believe violence shouldn't be in video games. The world is full of wars and people killing each other every day yet they believe our video games should be free of all that. Radio (before TV), TV, Video Games... everything mimics real life. It's just the latest thing for parents to point the finger at and blame instead of themselves for the violent society they've created.

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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 00:22 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2011 00:26
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I think the age limit as a GUIDE is great. Not all parents play video games and it's good for them to have a quick glance guide to inform them about the game's contents. I also think it's good if kids aren't allowed to play games based on age. I think that as a kid (12 and below) you should be socializing and playing kickball or things of that nature. I'm not saying that kids don't or can't understand what happens in a violent game, but I just don't think it's necessary. There are so many things that kids should experience that violent video games should not be included. I know as a kid I had TONS of fun just going to a friends house and playing the Mario Party's. Now most of my friends won't touch a "happy" type game. I got a little off topic but I just think it's good for kids to stay away from the violent games until they are mature.

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"
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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 13:04
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I played games ALL the time as a kid, but then my PARENTS were gamers and knew all the games i played already: i played CS 1.6 and WC3, those were the very two first games I played, no it wasnt mario or anything like that: it was CS and WC3.

And my parent played that, and they thought it were fine (they also changed the blood in CS to yellow btw... xD) however, its a hell of a lot harder for a parent, who doesnt play video games, to know the content of them. Hence why i think that age limits, should be implented "for real" so to speak: not allowing underage children buy games without the permission of their parent, giving the parent more control.

Iam not saying that people may run of and kill, definitly not, iam against that idea: my believe is that a mentally disorted human being might, but not the normal healthy one. What iam saying is that for our own kids good, a limitation on when you can buy it might be a good idéa. Parents will feel more safe, and kids vulnerable to such things will be more safe.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 20:10 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2011 20:13
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Games like Grand Theft Auto although violent teach kids the concept of consequences. Attack a cop and they come after you... and they don't stop till you're arrested or dead. I also grew up playing all types of games from the cutesy-non-violent to the ultra violent and I'm not a psychopathic killer. In fact I'm more happy and stable than everybody I know that have never played video games (or people that consider Solitaire a "good game").

When I get mad a good violent game like Fallout New Vegas releases all the anger after 2 minutes of cutting peoples heads off with a sword.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 20:27
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I always play clinically, I don't really do the whole "dismember a body for two hours" thing. Just boom, headshot...attempts.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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thenerd
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 20:41 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2011 20:42
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On a slightly related matter, has anyone heard about Bill S.978? It's a bill intended to make streaming any copywrited content illegal. The bill's designed to protect musicians and moviemakers, but a side-effect of the poor wording is that any videos online of playthroughs of video games or even covers of music would be made illegal. The only way to release footage would be to get exclusive permission from the publisher. It just shows how much some senators know about the internet.

The bill is in the early stages, but it's still a threat to a lot of online culture... I urge anyone who lives in the US to sign the petition on this website.
http://act.demandprogress.org/letter/ten_strikes?akid=700.450896.5hVZPC&rd=1&t=1

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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 20:59
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Quote: "Games like Grand Theft Auto although violent teach kids the concept of consequences"


that was probably the worst attemt to justify kids to play violent games i have ever heard...

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:21
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Quote: "that was probably the worst attemt to justify kids to play violent games i have ever heard...
"


I actually thought it was a brilliant point. You're being closed minded.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:29
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Video games do not make people violent. It just so happens violent people play video games.

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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:35
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Quote: "I actually thought it was a brilliant point. You're being closed minded. "


okay, lets throw 10 year old kids in front of (insert scary bloody gory movie here), because from that they will learn: dont trust your best friends.

yeah, that will work.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:37
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That'd actually be good advice, half the time your so called 'friends' stab you in the back.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:44
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And IRL you can steal cars and hold off the US army?

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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:45
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iam still not saying that you get violent from playing videogame

iam still >against< that logic

and for the record, I am a man.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 23:50 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2011 23:51
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thenerd,

Quote: "even covers of music would be made illegal"


Performing or recording a cover without a license, isn't legal to begin with.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 01:27 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2011 01:47
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@ CoffeeGrunt:

Me too. Once a character is dead it's on to the next future corpse.


@ Indicium:

Thanks


@ Quik:

Actually GTA is rated M so only 17+ year old kids can buy the game. So if Mommy and Daddy let their 10 year old play GTA it's their fault if the kid goes on to be a serial killer. The game wasn't meant for 10 year olds. I wonder if violent crime has lowered in recent years because of violent games (researching). Yup, violent crime has actually lowered because of violent video games. So the more violent the less likely kids that are exposed to it will do violent crimes.

This is from Wired which shows a graph of violent crime rates over the years and violent games that have come out:


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