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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Oslo, Norway Massacre 22/07/2011

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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 02:14
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there is nothing I could say about this event without being a hypocrite. It is horrible and I do not understand how a fellow human being could do that...and what kind of damaged mind he had.

I do not believe that deathsentences for murderers are just. Not at all, but the typical murder case is "ex shot girlfriends new lover" or "gangmember shot other gangmember" <- these people belong in prison (we need a new prison system AS MUCH AS we need a new education system....these are relics from the last century that no longer serve their function)

But hey...if you shoot 92 teenagers. You should die.
The evidence is crystal clear and in my book, you loose all human rights after such an inhuman act. This kind of person should be shot.

Quote: ""I just annoys me how the media automatically assumes from the start that it was Islamic extremists.""


Yes! They initially jumped on that train in the german news aswell... so sad!



-Wolf

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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 03:36
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Quote: "But hey...if you shoot 92 teenagers. You should die.
The evidence is crystal clear and in my book, you loose all human rights after such an inhuman act. This kind of person should be shot."


That's my line of thinking as well. Murders that are considered crimes of passion (ie., he raped my daughter, beat my wife, etc.) should be given an appropriate prison sentence. But evil people such as the individual in Norway should be put 6 feet under, as cheaply as possible.

This one's about to be shut down; so say what you're going to say, within the AUP (and what should pass as common sense).

-Keith

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 03:40
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I think a lock is a good idea. I'm gonna start flaming people pretty soon if not lol. There are few topics in this world that set me off but the death penalty and generally anything Prison related are the top of the list. People have such little knowledge of what really goes on in a prison that it absolutely baffles me.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 04:49
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i wanna try to diffuse the tention on the issue of the expence of execution vs keeping them locked up. The thing is, many prisons/ prison camps are built around small prison-run industries, where prisoners actually do work and are put to good use. many prisons have mashine shops where they manufacture mechanical parts or other stuff. prisoners are also often (if its a minimal/medium security) taken outside of the prison to do construction work. I think in that sence puttin prisoners to use does pay for a lot of their containment expence. so using prisoners as cheap labor is actually profitrable andthe prisoners might obtain new useful skills diring their time in prison.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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tha_rami
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 05:00 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 05:13
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Quote: "I think what he is trying to say is most religiously motivated terrorist attacks in the last 50 years have been committed by Islamic extremists. This is not true though, if that's what he's trying to say, they have just been the one's covered most by the media (because they have been the one's that usually cause the most casualties and so are high profile).

Here's an FBI breakdown of recent terrorist attacks:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/"

Down to the exact same research I was going to quote. In Europe, it's even less: Islam has accounted for 0.4% of all actions classed as terrorism in the entirity of Europe.

If that's what he meant I'm going to have to call him out for getting angry at me last time for making a rather harmless Rapture-joke and now (possibly) making an actually accusing religion-related remark himself. For now, I'm just going to assume the best - which is that Jeku meant the opposite.

More importantly than petty things like those, however, is the fact that 90+ innocent people died. I was one of the people who was at the Ridderhof mall shootings earlier this year in the Netherlands - and I have to say it creeps me the hell out to see the disturbed, disillusioned and scared looks in the eyes of the survivors. I wish I couldn't, but I think I know how they feel regarding surviving that.

I do not know how they feel regarding that sick guy disguising as a cop - a symbol of safety and trust. I do not know how they feel having nowhere to run but swimming. I do not know how they felt knowing that after he shot the person lying next to you in the head, you're next, and the only reason you survive is because the bullet hits your shoulder instead of your head, after which you have to feign dead for minutes. Nobody should be in the know of such feelings.

I have been reading some of his writings, and this guy was a sick, efficient, coldblooded and calculated person.

I'm against the death penalty, but for this time I'll make an exception. Actually, shoot the guy into space. I don't want his molecules on this planet.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 06:10 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 06:32
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My condolences to all the families that have been affected by this awful, shocking act.



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anayar
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:11 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 07:12
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I dont really want to admit this... but I actually cried when i saw the pictures and heard the news about how many children had been killed. I started reading about these attacks and this quote grabbed my attention:

Warning; It is a bit graphic:


Is it really this type of a person who deserves to LIVE in a prison? Reading through the last page of this thread I am shocked to see that people wish him to live. Committing such acts completely removes youre civil/natural rights... If I were running the nation I would shoot him in the head, just as he shot so many children.

Now you guys are going to tell me I dont know what it is like to lose someone, so I shouldnt make any calls like that. Well let me tell you... I lost one of my closest friends in the 2008 Mumbai Terror attacks, and another was injured in last weeks Mumbai blasts. I met the family of my close friend who was brutally killed, and can see the pain they live with and the anger/frustration they see when the man responsible for his death is shown up on TV. I only hope no other family has to go through that... Especially one which murdered so many innocent children... that too mostly girls.

I know there is no death penalty in Norway... but for acts like this, this man should be given the worst death possible.

Sincerely,
Anayar


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Vent
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:24
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I've never had anyone close/related to me be murdered (well, my aunt was killed before my birth, but I still see the pain my uncle goes through sometimes, along with other family members), but what he did was just plain horrible, and although I hate to say it, I agree.

Put him on a chunk of ice and push it into the ocean, I know that sounds comical, but really, he wouldn't last long, but it won't be fun.



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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:27
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I just wish that instead of running away, a few of the older ones would have charged at him and broke his neck. He was only one lunatic with a gun after all...

...but thats just wishfull thinking.

I really wonder where does that guy come from and how did he became that kind of person?


This is a short video where they show the bombing site...just a few seconds of garbage on the streets. But reading through the comments makes me want to have the ability to punch people in the face through my net connection. Dont read through it if you want to have a nice sunday morning.



-Wolf

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Vent
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:31
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Quote: "Dont read through it if you want to have a nice sunday morning."


I plane out refuse to read Youtube comments for things like this, I can't take it.



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crispex
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:38
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It's due to the fact that our government believes in giving criminals multiple appeals. In a death penalty case, it would cost more to use all possible appeals than to just keep them in life without parole. If I needed facts to back everything up, I'd take me hours to get a post. I'm typing a post, not writing a Wikipedia article. There have been multiple investigations and local reports that confirm that around 90 million on average would be saved by states who abolish the death penalty.

Quote: "Nope; not ashamed at all. I'm around murderers all day long; I read there files, hear them talk about their crimes and how they'd do it again if the had the chance. Many of them have no remorse whatsoever. I don't live in a fantasy world as some do.
"


Death by state is no different than someone killing someone else. Why is it that if someone kills my friend, and I kill the killer, I get arrested? Basically the death penalty is a lousy way of trying to scare people into not doing wrong. Did it also ever occur that many prisoners act that way to try to keep up a rough exterior? Most of these "hardened criminals" break down to family that come to see them, and many deep down do have remorse. You're tying people with remorse into people who have none. What your saying is implying that all murderers would do it again, and we should kill them instead of rehabilitating them.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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anayar
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:39
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OMG...its amazing how cruel people can be!! I mean...really,
??

Anayar.


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crispex
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 07:46
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Because we live in a cold senseless world where people say what they want because they're protected by an online identity?

You should expect nothing less from humans, really. The earliest human skeletons were found with spearheads in their bodies. That doesn't say much about people.

The people who are online laughing about this, are laughing because it didn't happen to them. They're laughing because they think it'll never happen to them. Every day when you go into public, always be aware of your surroundings. It's easy for people to get a hold of weapons these days, both legally and illegally. That's another thing, getting rid of guns is not the solution. No matter what you do, people will manage to find a way to get guns. It's like drugs.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 08:53
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Quote: "It's due to the fact that our government believes in giving criminals multiple appeals. In a death penalty case, it would cost more to use all possible appeals than to just keep them in life without parole. If I needed facts to back everything up, I'd take me hours to get a post. I'm typing a post, not writing a Wikipedia article. There have been multiple investigations and local reports that confirm that around 90 million on average would be saved by states who abolish the death penalty."


And we would save even more than that, if these government idiots didn't allow appeals the way they do. The average appeal costs about 1 million dollars I believe and they are allowed basically unlimited appeals.
But clearly all that matters is money. Not the fact that we are giving a legitimate life to rapists, child molestors, serial killers, murders and inhumane people. That sounds like a great punishment alright! Let's stick them in a room where they receive plenty of food and some of the best health care in just about the entire world.

Quote: "Death by state is no different than someone killing someone else. Why is it that if someone kills my friend, and I kill the killer, I get arrested? Basically the death penalty is a lousy way of trying to scare people into not doing wrong. Did it also ever occur that many prisoners act that way to try to keep up a rough exterior? Most of these "hardened criminals" break down to family that come to see them, and many deep down do have remorse. You're tying people with remorse into people who have none. What your saying is implying that all murderers would do it again, and we should kill them instead of rehabilitating them."

This was a joke right? Or do you really believe in what you just said. I'm literally offended for the families that have lost loved ones to murderers and serial killers. If someone killed your brother, sister, father, or mother, you would give them a chance at rehabilitation because said criminal "feels sorry" and has remorse for killing them? They must be good people because they have feelings! That serial rapist was sorry for raping and murdering that lady, but he feels sorry so let's give him a chance at rehabilitation! Great idea.

I'm officially leaving this thread because I legitimately am just pissed off and offended.


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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 09:07 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 09:08
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Quote: "Here's an FBI breakdown of recent terrorist attacks:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/"


You're really going to quote loonwatch? Really? I prefer my sources to be unbiased. Terrorist acts on American soil and the world are quite different beasts.

Please don't turn this into a religious debate or the thread will have to be locked. I stick by what I believe and what I know most people believe. If you really have a problem with that, and with hard facts, then email me and we can discuss it civilly.


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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 09:17
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Quote: "You should expect nothing less from humans, really."


If you take 100 perfectly normal people and one complete waste of genetic material. People will point out that one person and come up with sentences like "You should expect nothing less from humans, really."



-Wolf

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 09:36
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Quote: "Quote: "Death by state is no different than someone killing someone else. Why is it that if someone kills my friend, and I kill the killer, I get arrested? Basically the death penalty is a lousy way of trying to scare people into not doing wrong. Did it also ever occur that many prisoners act that way to try to keep up a rough exterior? Most of these "hardened criminals" break down to family that come to see them, and many deep down do have remorse. You're tying people with remorse into people who have none. What your saying is implying that all murderers would do it again, and we should kill them instead of rehabilitating them."
This was a joke right? Or do you really believe in what you just said. I'm literally offended for the families that have lost loved ones to murderers and serial killers. If someone killed your brother, sister, father, or mother, you would give them a chance at rehabilitation because said criminal "feels sorry" and has remorse for killing them? They must be good people because they have feelings! That serial rapist was sorry for raping and murdering that lady, but he feels sorry so let's give him a chance at rehabilitation! Great idea.

"



may i just say that i believe the same as the other guy?

like my good friend said yesterday: nobody should be in controll in someone elses lifes: while some people assume controll, which is very wrong, it doesnt at all make US valid to do so, i for one is more than happy death penalties isnt around here and that life time prison = 26years in sweden.

and for the record, I am a man.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 13:56
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my grandpa once avoided a terrorist attack by 5 minutes. He got on the subway in a station which 5 minutes after he left there was a terrorist attack there. Also i possibly avoided the 2 subway bombings last spring. my work routine is pretty getting a call in the morning which sends me wherever they need me in the city so i never know where i would go. Possibly if my boss called me before the attacks and i had to take the red line somewhere, there is a good chance i could have been there and possibly even be one of the victims. i am sure living in moscow i could put myself at risk without knowing since moscow went trough a lot of terrorist acts.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Cormorant5
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 15:04
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We are already taking control of their life by putting them in a cell. But that's not good enough. We need to control their life to make them suffer, and he deserves for his life to be controlled because he killed 90 innocent people! My aunt was killed in the Tuscon shooting and if I took a baseball bat and beat that guy to death I would have felt no remorse. And he killed, about 20 people. This guy killed 90. Frankly, that ice idea wouldn't be too bad, but we have to make sure it won't melt, and chain him to it. If he finds humor from shooting 90 teenagers in the face, is that not enough for you?

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 15:12 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 15:13
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yeah we are taking controll by putting them in a cell, and that to me is fine, taking so much contoll as to kill someone, what makes us better than him if i may ask?

edit: also,
Quote: "My aunt was killed in the Tuscon shooting and if I took a baseball bat and beat that guy to death I would have felt no remorse"


what makes you better than him then? you are just lowering yourself to another mans low standards

and for the record, I am a man.

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Cormorant5
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 16:04
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He killed 20 innocent people, I would have killed one non-innocent person.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 17:26 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 17:35
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Quote: "You're really going to quote loonwatch? Really? I prefer my sources to be unbiased. Terrorist acts on American soil and the world are quite different beasts."

Okay, Jeku, how about quoting the FBI article on which the Loonwatch article was based? Unbiased enough?

Quote: "Please don't turn this into a religious debate or the thread will have to be locked. I stick by what I believe and what I know most people believe. If you really have a problem with that, and with hard facts, then email me and we can discuss it civilly. "

Wait, what? You almost had me slapped for making a joke about Rapture and now 'you stick to what you believe', even though there is no statistical evidence to suggest you even being close to correct?

Let me quote you from the Rapture-topic:
Quote: "Is this a bash Christians thread? Want me to chime in and start bashing Muslims, tha_rami? A very small minority of Christians believe this. If you want to continue making fun of other people's religious beliefs, which is clearly against the AUP, then be prepared for bans."

You're not just making fun, you're defaming a religion & implying unexisting correlations. Or is making fun worse than that? If so, my bad.

You see, I don't have a problem with you believing whatever you want & you know I respect the work you do here at TGC, but I'm calling you out on this one. I didn't bring religion in here, you did. I didn't make an offensive comment regarding a religion, you did. All I did was make a harmless joke concerning a ridiculous subject and nearly got banned for it because it just so happened to be ever so slightly related to your beliefs.

That you, as a moderator, can decide what constitutes a violation at your discretion doesn't mean that its ethical and moral for you to decide that I shouldn't be able to make a joke about your beliefs while you are able to say my religion is prevalent in terrorism.

If you want a 'civil discussion', how about you e-mail me with a source as credible as the FBI? Actually, I'd think an e-mailwith a little apology would be more in place - if not for your remark then please for the way you clamp down on a little, harmless joke about Christianity just to continue stating that most terrorist attacks are executed by Muslims in the wake of something as horrible as the Oslo attacks.

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anayar
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 17:26 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 17:28
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Quote: "what makes you better than him then? you are just lowering yourself to another mans low standards"

Why is it always about being better?? I mean, get real, we are talking about justice here... not being better than a man who killed 90 innocent children, because thats as easy as wiping your own _____. If I had a chance, Id beat him to death... And everyone calls me a pacifist.

Quote: "He killed 20 innocent people, I would have killed one non-innocent person."

Correction (I knwo you were talking about Tucson), he killed over 90 innocent children/civilians and I would have killed one in-human being.

Quote: "If he finds humor from shooting 90 teenagers in the face, is that not enough for you?"

To me, that just proves he will NEVER have any remorse for his actions.

The only other way i might sentence him is to put him into a place like Guantanamo Bay... just 10X worse.

Anayar.


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Indicium
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 17:34
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Quote: " Terrorist acts on American soil and the world are quite different beasts."


You make it sound like we should worship America, this attack happened in Norway, Europe. Why are American statistics relevant to this?

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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 18:01 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 18:30
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The Appeals process is the culprit in the excessive expenses of death-row inmates; that is what needs to be addressed, not the mere thought that death-row itself costs more. DNA evidence is the norm these days; numerous cases where DNA evidence frees a man or woman who's been on the row for decades are slowing down.

Quote: "Death by state is no different than someone killing someone else. Why is it that if someone kills my friend, and I kill the killer, I get arrested?"

Because the State takes the time to ensure that the person is guilty. Believe it or not; the "State" doesn't go around killing innocent teenagers at a camp, smiling while they do it.

Quote: "Basically the death penalty is a lousy way of trying to scare people into not doing wrong. Did it also ever occur that many prisoners act that way to try to keep up a rough exterior? Most of these "hardened criminals" break down to family that come to see them, and many deep down do have remorse."


Again; you're making suppositions. Do you work at a prison? I do; what I say is based on actual facts from what I've seen up close and personal, not from a TV show or newspaper. You seem to do this quite a bit; claim something as "fact", or make broad-sweeping statements...with no actual knowledge or experience in the matter.

Quote: "You're tying people with remorse into people who have none. What your saying is implying that all murderers would do it again, and we should kill them instead of rehabilitating them."


No; that's not what I'm saying at all. As I eluded to in a previous post; murderers that committed a "crime of passion" should be given an appropriate sentence. Cold-blooded mass-murderers should be given death as soon as possible.

Quote: "yeah we are taking controll by putting them in a cell, and that to me is fine, taking so much contoll as to kill someone, what makes us better than him if i may ask?"


Maybe when you get more life-experience you'll figure that out.

Once again; sympathies go out to all the victims and their families; and Norway as a whole, for this tragedy.

-Keith

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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 18:01
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Flame

This thread has been locked due to the unmanageable number of flame responses. Please refer to section 3.11 - 3.12 of the Acceptable Usage Policy for full details:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=aup#forum

AUP Section 3.17 ...Moderators shall, at their discretion, determine what constitutes a violation of these terms, along with generally accepted netiquette standards, and can take action against those who violate these rules.

If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases a ban.

-Keith

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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 21:17
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I think I deserve to stick up for myself a bit here, as I'm getting targeted here and couldn't really post a rebuttal before the thread was locked. And since I didn't receive an email but a pretty hateful post instead, this is only fair.

I'm not going to post links to outdated articles or rebuttals, because I have them too. If someone can't tell the difference between person A making fun of a group and person B stating what feels like a fact about a group, then I truly feel sorry for them. And I apologize that I offended people here, tha_rami in particular. He's a good guy and I wasn't intending to offend.

I used to think that I could give opinion here even if it's not "PC", but now I know better.


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