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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / What would you like to see in DBPro?

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Bighead
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 07:37
mmm, perhaps complementing them with boolean operations? don't really know ...

Well, i think improving BSP support goes in the top of the list; new terrain commands is in second place; better tutorial+help files is in third; built-in INI file commands follows and finally cross-platform capabilities.
Bighead
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 07:50
ooops! forgot to say that the "boolean operations" comment relates with the volumetric terrains issue posted by crawlin
Richard
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 08:10
More examples and tutorials
Support the input and output Chinese character(simplified/traditional Chinese character). I can offer help, if need!

striker25
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 08:18
I reaaaaaaly like the sound of OO programming in DBPRO.
Terrain stuff is pretty important too.

my main wish is....

OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING as an optional style.

BHoltzman
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 08:30
I want to see much better documentation. I'd like strict definitions of the commands and I'd like to be able to see them in use in several different programs. I'd also like to see supporting tutorials like a set of physics tutorials and game design tutorials (I know there is already one there, but more in depth is what I'm getting at)

I'd like to be able to tell the compiler to force variable declarations on some projects.

I'd like to see a physics command set and a windows gui command set. It would be so cool if I could just assign jello as a physical attribute to an object and then let the computer work out the details of how a jello object would interact with other objects.

I'd like to see better alpha channel support. i.e. vary the transperency of an object by applying a gray bitmap image to it. Black areas would be completely transparent, white areas completely opaque and everything in the middle would vary in opacity by how close it is to white or black. I'd also like to be able to animate any bitmap that I can apply to another object.

I'd like more comprehensive pixel shader support. Perhaps an editor that would allow me to create matterials like I would in a paint program (and visual language for the non-2d aspects of pixel shaders.)

I'd like to see a performance analyzer that can show us where all the trouble spots are in our code and give advice on ways to solve or work around each problem.

I'd like to see a set of editors that will produce proper resource files that can be loaded into dbpro. i.e. a world designer, a texture editor, a sound file editor, an animation editor (with lip syncing tools.), pixel shader editor, conversation tree editor, etc...

I'd like to see a set of templates that I could use for common data structures that will help me to better organize my code and give me a starting point from which to begin my projects from.

I'd like to be able to define my own templates so that if I want to build a personality template for example I can put in whatever attributes I think I might want my characters to have.

If I don't get anything else the most important to me would be an extensive library of formats to import/export. I'm working in Realsoft3d right now. I can convert my models to 3ds or dxf but I loose too much info out of my models when I do so. Being able to pull whatever I can use from my modeler's native format would be extremely useful.

I know that I'm suggesting some really high level stuff. However, this is what you want to aim for when trying to outdo the competition.

SoulMan
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 09:30
Actually Holtz, Option Explicit would be the way to go. That way you can turn on/off varible declaration, but as any true programmer worth a dime knows that variable declaration is very important. In fact this should be put in. Also, would you be interested in OO?
SoulMan

I am my own and own my am I
striker25
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 09:45
Up with the OOP cause!!

EdzUp
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 11:57
Code library support so we can post code without giving the code away

Dazzy
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 13:37
Until the new model loading code arrives I don't see the point in adding anything major. If the bugs have been fixed then great, use the time up until patch 4 to vastly improve the help files cos they have seriously went down hill!

But volumetic terrains would be nice.

Better bsp compiler? it can wait theres other things higher on the list.

Dazzy
ICERGB
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 13:40
We should not be asking for the impossible at the moment...

DarkBasic very badly needs functionality fixes and explanation-examples for the commands.

Some of the things mentioned are supported and some are Way-way out there...
Some should be, and should have been and the developers know it and should look into it immediately!

I just want to be comfortable getting support and having reliable DBPRO support...

We should all check our code and give examples of "any possible" bugs from the DBPRO vers 2!

My wish list is;
Demos of each command!

save images!

Make a animated .x object with animated frames be it skelital or triangle to circle: even if it requires memblocks!!!!!!

MemBLOCKS What the ^*&& is a MEmblock? DUH! (I am STUPID)

Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 14:05
- Error Handling (On Error Goto and On Error Resume Next)

- Some half-decent demos. People judge DBPro's abilities as a program by looking at the demos. Get some good ones made and you'll have no problem selling DBP.

what is a signature?
crawlin
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 14:43
you have to use 3d bitmaps. I saw a program that could do this on a site, but i don't remember. I'll go have a look

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crawlin
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 14:46
sorry, my last post doen't make sense.

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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 14:49
I don't know if this has been mentioned:

1. Whenever an error is reported it should be line number and file. When it tells me row 516 and none of my 3 files is bigger then 250 lines I don't know where to find the problem.

2. DBP should not always maximize CPU usage. It's OK with most games but not OK with apps cause you use many apps at the same time. My Player get's prety useless cause maximizing the CPU means that other apps runs very slow.

Farwalk
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 15:15
- An option to be required to declare variables (OPTION EXPLICIT)

- Ability to connect to, update, create tables, etc. to an external database.

- Any improvments to the BSP functionality would be good (doors, lifts, entities, etc.)

HippyGoth
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 16:45
How about some nice 2D scrolling commands.

Sorry I'm just a 2D kinda guy, and I don't want to go to the 'other' language.

2D commands should be in all games languages, in fact the only 2D commands DBPro misses is scroll.

Eddie.
empty
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 20:03
- Pass types to and get them from functions
- better DirectMusic support
- better error reports (as DG said)

Ogres have layers.
empty
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 20:04
- and allow arrays in types

Ogres have layers.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 20:10
Quoth - The DB cave demo does NOT support it just fine, thats two matrixies stuck together to look like a cave...

Soulman- Sorry to jump at you... and AFAIK you haven't said anything about people not reading posts... but anyway, sorry.

Rich- MORE THAN 7 LIGHTS! Please?

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
DrakeX
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 20:34
you mean more than 8 lights

anyway that's a HARDWARE issue. not very many cards (not even newer ones) support more than 8 lights at a time. there were some with 16 or 24 but that was a while ago.

i know it's a hardware thing because in 3dmark 2001 (3d benchmarking program) my card has a max of 8 lights (as do most)

i'm looking at yooooou!
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 20:56
oh... ic

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 21:30
- I could use a fix of speed though.

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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 21:32
^^ which Patch 4 will (hopefully because I don't know that I can trust DBS) provide this.

"what do you want in DBPro?"

>> a free copy of Blitz3D

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Freddix
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 21:56
I'd like to see 2D with no blur !

a 2D that should not blur !

make a test :
1 / Load a 640x480 bitmap in bitmap 0 and run that program with the image in !

load bitmap _Your_bitmap_filename$,0
get image 1,0,0,640,480
repeat
paste image 1,0,0
sync
get image 1,0,0,640,480
until spacekey()=1
delete image 1

and see the disaster become reality !

If the auto blur can be retired , 2D should become useable on DBPro !
for the moment 2D is unuseable !
Freddix
AGK Developer
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 00:14
I correct a small error in source code :

load bitmap _Your_bitmap_filename$,0
get image 1,0,0,639,479
repeat
paste image 1,0,0
sync
get image 1,0,0,639,479
until spacekey()=1
delete image 1
Chenak
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 00:16
The ablity to use more than 7 lights!!!
better md3 and model support will be gr8 2!

cheers

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
empty
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 00:28
> The ablity to use more than 7 lights!!!
I think that Drake already posted that here.
Fact is: 8 lights (not 7, btw) is limit of most graphic cards. That means they can not display more than 8 lights at once. That does not mean that you can't create more light sources in your game.

Ogres have layers.
Viktor
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 00:33
Please do not mess DB Pro with Object Orientated support, because the result will not be Dark Basic, but something that only 2-3 user will buy/downgrade.

-----------------------------------------------------
PC: Amd Athlon 1200/512 Mb SDRam/GeForce2MX Dual Display Video/Win2000, 19" Monitor
ZX: ZX Spectrum 128+ Customized version.
The Darthster
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 01:09
You might be able to do a volumetric terrain using .avi video files, take a bitmap of each one and convert it to a layer of terrain, unlike terrain maps. This would take ages to load and you'd need massive external files, but it might just work. Or not.

I'd like to see.... specular mapping and gloss mapping, mainly. Also more control over the individual particles using the particle commands. Actually you might be able to do what I want to do with the current set, I just haven't tried. I'd like to see them used for laser bullet effects.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 01:10
viktor- DBP will not be messed up, and it will still be DB. You won't have to use the OO commands if you don't want to, you won't even notice the difference if you don't look in the manuel... if implemented properly that is. And BTW- If it is implemented, more people will buy it than do now... your numbers are wrong.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 04:03
freddix:

load bitmap _Your_bitmap_filename$,0
get image 1,0,0,639,479,1
repeat
paste image 1,0,0
sync
get image 1,0,0,639,479,1
until spacekey()=1
delete image 1

...

those little extra ",1"s make a lot of difference no more fuzziness.

i'm looking at yooooou!
indi
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 05:21
position bsp x,y,z

scale bsp x,y,z

create a bsp loading progress bar also

we cant make our own when the program does nothing while loading

heartbone
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 05:57
1) Two simultaneous joypad support.
2) SAY command.
3) LPRINT command.

If you do #1 for DarkBASIC (it would take an inexpensive PCI card, and minor driver and command upgrades) this could be the thing that sets it apart from the pack.
Rick imagine this..........
"Let DarkBASIC turn your PC into a XBOX"

I could then rewrite the all time classic COMBAT (Atari 2600), and other console favorites in DB.

Please consider doing this before Bill Gates stops you.

ICERGB
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 10:16
http://www.boyar.net/alert.wav

You need to save both a project file and a source file!!!

That is two saves every time!!!!

Something Wrong with that??


ICERGB
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 10:26
Because you build from your first code
codef1.dba and codef1.dbpro
to codef2.dba and codef2.dbpro
to codef3.dba and codef3.dbpro
...
codef63.dba and codef63.dbpro
ICERGB
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 10:34
If you required frame animating sequences for one 3d object and it could either use 1 sequence of a deforming mesh or just use a sequence of different meshes that would only need to switch quickly and smoothly enough? and be treated as a single 3d object with frames?
Enter memblocks?
Miez
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 11:22
What I'd really like to see:

- (this one has been mentioned before): a decent file requester.

- Some sort of interrupt handling (as in the AMOS "Every" command).

- Alpha setting on 3D objects (not just 50% on/off).
coyote
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 11:25
hi

1-- Gmax full support.And 3DSMAX skin and bone support.
2-- need faster compiling.
3-- OenGL2.0 and nVidia CG support.
http://developer.nvidia.com/
4-- directx9 full support.
5-- DBP has too much commands.should be more simple number of commands and just powerful.
6-- give us more sample code and demo for newbie.
7-- AMD Athlon 3Dnow! support
8-- Intel Hyper-Threading Technology support
9-- optimized for graphics by ATI.
10-- as long as DBP support DLL, we dont need much new command.cause we can add own command somehow with DLL.we wanna more power DB engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 11:26
More accurate error reporting (especially over multiple source files)

Heartbone - I may have a DLL that will solve your game inputting problems...

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
Dazzy
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 12:24
"1-- Gmax full support" Read the license agreement this is not allowed unless their willing to pay the license and even then I don't think it would be allowed.

"2-- need faster compiling." in what way?

"3-- OenGL2.0 and nVidia CG support." Opengl 2 support is very unlikely to happen.

"4-- directx9 full support." its coming

"5-- DBP has too much commands." agree and disagree, newbies require them, but more advanced users will find programming things for themselves has its benefits.

"6-- give us more sample code and demo for newbie." Totally agree

"7-- AMD Athlon 3Dnow! support" I thought DX8 fully supports it!

Dazzy
crawlin
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 12:52
Volumetric Terrains use 3D Bitmaps i think. I will have to look it up but on a demo I had it was very quick to load.

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Rob K
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 12:54
Err... coyote:

1) OpenGL is an entirely different system from DirectX and would involve an awful lot of new code. OpenGL 2 isn't even tried and tested yet.

2) DBP has too much commands - You don't have to use them if you don't want to.

3) Faster compiling - That would be nice but compile time is still pretty damn quick - I guess you have never used Visual C++.

==========================================================

Other fixes:

1) No blurryness on 2D, especially text. Text at resolutions 800x600 fullscreen or lower is really blurry. Aggh!

2) Controllable mip-mapping options.

3) Smaller exes. It seems that if for example you use one Basic 3D command then DBP integrates the entire Basic3D library. Is it possible to integrate just the commands that are actually used?

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 13:28
Some top priorities should be

* Reduction of compiler/hardware level bugs over new additions.. Focus on stability now, not later

* Faster compiler (WAY faster).. number the crunching abilities of pro aren't anything to write home about... This needs addressing now.

* On error (error trapping at code level)

* option explicit (forced all variable/array declaration)

and some other stuff..

* Threads
* Jmp tables
* 2d view ports.. User Definable region for 2d rendering..
* 2d rendering directly to images.


and lots of other stuff, but after it's working solidly ..

l8r,
Kevin Picone
[url]www.uwdesign.50megs.com[/url]
Nikkoz
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 14:00
I dont think that the more formats (Gmax, Quicktime, and ALL games map files, etc.) the compiler supports the better it gets.

Why don't support a few GOOD formats (maby own DBP-formats for pics, music, audio, maps) and have CONVERTERS that handles plenty of mapfiles etc. In that case you can concentrate on a fewer set of commands and still have support for all types of fileformats.

And as DBP is a gameprogramming language this is what i want to see in it:

- Support for database access (MMORPG)
- Support for events and get_player_position etc. in maps
Automatic handlig for doors and such.
- Interrupts or just pieces of code that runs in the background, so you can create a enemy contol program that runs by itself, and be able to create many enemies with the same code.
- Better way to create GUI's. Like "create_button number, imagenr" "if button number()=1".
And the possibility to open new screens like in Amos
(Open Screen nr,width,height,bits or what it was)

Other things that would be nice!
- Rigid body physics
- Automatic skybox handling that it drawn before any other graphics.
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 17:01
So to summarise then (from all other posts):

- Faster Compiler
- More Speed
- More Stability / Compatability (ie. no hardware issues or general bugs)
- Zip commands
- Support for more file formats (Specifically QuickTime)
- File Requester
- Error handling
- True alpha blending on 3D objects
- Improved BSP handling
- More BSP / Terrain commands
- Fix the blurriness on 2D graphics / Text
- More reliable multiplayer commands
- Specular / Gloss mapping
- Volumetric Terrains (Not quite sure how this works but..)
- Commands such as Make FTP directory so that MMORPGs can be created
- Easy way of creating GUIs / Windows etc.
- Fix for the problem that the compiler doesn't report the dba file and line number of that file when it encounters an error.

... I have probably forgotten a few so remind me

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empty
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 17:34
>I have probably forgotten a few [...]

Yup, mine.

Ogres have layers.
The Lemac
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 21:30
PATCH 4!!! LOL just kidding guys...

Seriously, how about the ability to interact with BSP brushes (doors, elevators, etc.) Also the ability to manipulate the lights in a BSP would be shweet....

ms3d object support would be REALLY cool... ok, I'll stop dreaming now.

The Lemac

"Just wut the Sam Hill is a dadgummed leemack anyhoo?"
Matto
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 00:49
Well I would very much like to see collision improvments from:~

1) Objects to Limbs EG:~
Set Object Collision to Polygons Object_Number#
Set Limb Collision to Polygons Object_Number#,Limb_Number#
(this can be set through a for next loop for objects with more than 1 limb needing collision adding(Providing the steps even..))

If Object To Limb Collision (Object_Number#,(Object_Number#,Limb_Number#))>0 then ***???***

***

2) Limbs to Limbs (either same or other objects limbs collision) EG:~

Set Limb Collision to Polygons Object_Number#,Limb_Number#

If Limb To Limb Collision ((object_number#,Limb_Number#),(object_number#,Limb_Number#))>0 Then ***???***

***

These would Allow greater handling of Objects to Limb collision and especially Objects with various Limbs that need collision But not particularly the whole object. Or if an Object has some Limbs that would be fine with say Box collision but other Limbs that would be better with sphere or Polygonal collision.


Thank You

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
Rob K
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 00:54
"Yup, mine."

>> For obvious reasons

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DrakeX
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 03:30
"ms3d object support would be REALLY cool"

umm hello, MS exports beautiful DX8 meshdef models which work great in DBP with the DirectX(JT) export..

i'm looking at yooooou!

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