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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / What would you like to see in DBPro?

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The Wendigo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 04:21
I agree sooo much with soulman about Object Oriented Programming. It's the latest kick in programming and is very widely used. It organizes code more efficiently, makes for portability, and to me just makes more sence all around. I know this would probably be hard to write in, but there are other languages like Jamagic that support OOP and it would be tragic that some programmers would go to them just because DBP doesnt support OOP.

Also, Hows about different reflectancies for objects such as regular, metalic, plastic, etc.... And how about making it where you could load .X objects and utalize this aspect (as well as environment effects). That way you could have a hummer that has a dirty frame, but a shiny windshield and rims.

Could we also see different UVs for Bump Mapping, light mapping, and the others? Even just 2 sets of UVs (one for the regular texture and the other for any other details you add) and the ability to texture individual faces of rectangles . I don't quite see the point of detail mapping if the details are as large as the texture itself. I know realtime lightmapping is probably out of the question, but if you supported multiple face texturing, we could do that using the software. I would!!!!!! and also distribute it as freeware for everyone and their grandmas (if their grannies program).

1.00 GHZ processor, 256 MB RAM, GeForce 3 64MB, SB Live!, 8 cans of soda per day
ICERGB
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 09:45
3ds Max is for the rich or scamily!!!!
ICERGB
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 09:47
Object oriented code is for c++ programmers!

go program in c++
ICERGB
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 09:51
although I must say, detailed effects added to 3d objects is quite new in dbpro;
It offers you a way to see if they are usable before you crash the system it may be running on and this is definately a good start...

Since special effects for each 3d card are virtually laid out for you in seperate commands...

Older cards will always be an issue and this detecting method is invaluable
coyote
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 10:04
i feel no point DBP support OOP(Object oriented programming).
ok, maybe people wanna OOP in DBP, but, if you can
OOP, then, why dont you just use c++ or JAVA making 3D game?!!
Zero
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 10:18
- An ability to play .OGG files without a separate decoder
- Positional fog
- Better memory handling (try to create huge arrays at the beginning)
- BSP intersection commands to calculate bullet hits
- Object pick command
- Better support of 3DCanvas exported .X for the BSP compiler
- Bitmap saving commands for formats BMP, PNG, GIF and JPG
- Support for MOD, XM , IT and S3M (as it was in DB#1)
- 3D to 2D converting commands:
3DTo2D Point X(3d_x#,3d_y#,3d_z#)
3DTo2D Point Y(3d_x#,3d_y#,3d_z#)
- Better screen fps command that returns more accurate float
- Formatted output:
SetPrecision(2)
Then all output will come in 2 decimal.

The evil plan is now even closer!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Specs:- P3 550 Nvidia TNT2M64, 192Mb RAM
Rylex
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 10:53
I would like to see MOD-Support again. I think it's a bit sad that the old DB1 offered it and DBPro doesn't.
I've spent 126 EUR and got no MOD-support.
(wasted money I think)

empty
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 10:58
"Yup, mine."
>> For obvious reasons

And those would be?

Ogres have layers.
SoulMan
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 11:12
Coyote,
Why do you even object to it?
If it's because you think it will change anything, it won't. It will be there, but you won't have to use it.
This is for those of us who are far more advance than just using Types. Types are nice, but Classes are better.
They provide inheritance, encapsulation and reusability. Much more than just a type does.
Then you can really start to get into the fun stuff like Operating Overloading, Friends and Templating.
What is templating?
Templates are a way of creating a function that will take any data types you throw at it.
One of the big reasons I think Dark Basic Pro needs OO is being able to trade code. This community is based on being able to trade code with one another. If you don't do it, nothing will survive. This is what C++ and any other language is built upon.
OO really helps with this.
Come up with one thing that Classes can't do.
SoulMan

I am my own and own my am I
pathfinder
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 11:45
a native command for interigating a 3D objects filename

Karlos
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 12:50
Would like to see:
1) All existing commands working as specified in the manual
2) DB Capabilities (MySQL preferrably)
3) Error trapping
4) Improved documentation

That about does it for me.

Karlos

If it ain't broke - try harder.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 12:53
Ability to deform meshes easily.

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
coyote
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 13:23
how come we need database access wtih dbp?are we gonna make
web application with dbp??
IanM
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 14:39
Pass by reference or value.
Pass types into functions.
Return types from functions.
The option to force explicit variable declaration.
Error trapping.
Working breakpoints in the debugger.
Break on variable value in the debugger.

A note on the OO issue - if you really want it, you can have it. Just write a C++ DLL that return results your DBPro program can react to
Viktor
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 16:21
OOP-forget it, even if we don´t need to use them, it is a disadvantage and not a feature. I´m sure, Lee will not include this, because it is need to rewrite most of the core to include this disadvantage.
@zero: I got a mail from lee, patch 3.1 will solve the problem with arrays.

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Lazzarus
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 16:46
I've seen error handling mentioned elsewhere in this post but could we have it closer to the .net way of doing it instead if the 'on error goto' stuff. It makes every thing neater and more strutured.

Example:


actarus
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 17:03
err..Couldn't bother to read all so sorry if this has been asked but,An Official World Editor!!

Lazzarus
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 17:05
Line of sight collision. Useful for bullets, operating buttons etc.

Get object distance. Yes I know how to do it in maths but a fast optimised command would be better.

Faster automatic object collision. Currently near unusable with 500 objects. Hopefully this will be part on the new 3D core.

A mouse clicked object command. Handy for menus.

Some more advanced string handling functions. Trim, instr, instrRev, replace, split, ucase, lcase, format and a mid$ which handles more than a single character. I'm working on a program with a lot of text /data handling and had to write my own commands for some of the above functions. Very slow!!!

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 17:30
Hmm... give them an inch they all take a mile hehee
I'm still not understanding what they all mean or think by Object Orientated Language and as no one is to explain it i'm gonna just poo-poo the idea.

Read most of the suggestions and some are just silly, i mean comeon ZIP support?? How lazy do you have to be??
But it probably will be there now especially as that is all a PK3 file is.

I think you guys need to take note this is still a programming language and if you need all of that then really you should go find a good Game to Modify!

That aside there have been some good suggestions, suchas Window creation creation so we can make real popups rather than having seperate programs for it.
I think adding some kinda MFC support would actually be helpful to everyone, so we can use menu's and create applications as well as games.

I think Pointers "->" are a very good idea, as they could allow us to have better intergration.

More importantly though the current functions need additional options, so we can turn mipmapping on/off, we can turn sprites from blended to sharp, we can use Volumetric/Radias/Linear Fog
Just the simple things.

Alpha levels should be on the 0-255 scale rather than the current On/Off setup. I know with the fade option you can produce similar results but it isn't quite the same and you know we really do need the actual alpha options sometime

Non Linear Array access, for creating and deleting number of items ... or even an open array

I mean I wouldn't expect any of it soon, just something to think about over the next year (^_^)

Priority on;
- Windows
- Alpha 0-255
- Engine Options (MipMap, Fog, T&L, etc)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Ratty Rat
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 18:39
Thanks for asking Rick, its exactly this kind of interest in your users that makes DB great!

So, in addition to some others have mentioned:-

I would like to see commands that allow closer control of objects, down to individual vertices. (I know it can be done by copying objects to memblocks but generic commands would be better)

Similarly for the collision commands it would be great if there was some way of telling which faces/vertices collided with which other faces/vertices, real world physics could then be calculated, with custom deformations and the like.

Would it be possible to have a single control function that allowed codes for keyboard, mouse and Joystick buttons so you could do something like:-

If Pressed("P") then Pause()
If Pressed("LMB") then Fire()
If Pressed("Joy1") then Jump()
If Pressed(Upkey$) then Moveup()
If Pressed(Downkey$) then Movedown()
If Pressed(Leftkey$) then Moveleft()
If Pressed(Rightkey$) then Moveright()

Doesn`t have to be strings,I just used them for example, special codes would be fine instead.
Rob K
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 19:16
@empty

You already listed your entries in bullet point form so there was no point in me relisting them.

what is a signature?
Dazzy
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 22:11
"Object oriented code is for c++ programmers!

go program in c++"

You need to rethink that one! C++ has probably got the worst OOP implementation about nowadays, Delphi, VB.net and C# have far nicer implentations.

Dazzy
DrakeX
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Posted: 25th Nov 2002 23:22
EASIER COLLISION (or at least more full-featured collision).

by that i mean something like SLIDING ROTATED COLLISION BOXES or something of the like.

i'm looking at yooooou!
The Masked Coder
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 03:45
Direct access to the object orientation matrix, or quaternion data used for each object.

3 direction vectors for each object, either a loaded or created object.
Each at right angles to each other, each a normal unit vector.
The direction vectors should be updated on each new rotation of an object.

Perhaps, as above, but access to the camera/cameras data instead.

I'm not sure of the 3d maths commands in pro, so i'll make a couple os suggestions here, forgive me if they are already included.

Dot product command for 2 normal unit vectors
Cross product command for 2 normal unit vectors
Distance between 2 objects command
Sgn command ( sine of a number , 1,0,-1 )
Normalize vector command
Return Magnitude of vector

rapscaLLion
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 04:39
Coyote: For the same reason we use DB instead of C++ or Java to program 3D games.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
coyote
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 05:11
i dont think database access necessary to
add on dbp.tell me how offen do you use database access
such as connect Mysql or Oracle for making game? dude, use file comannd and make own database access or use VB.

too much isnt good...
Bighead
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 06:35
To add the possibility of reading/writing strings to the registry (not only integers).
Karlos
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 11:13
coyote: Look at a game like Championship Manager - It has to use databases - sure I could code my own data access system but db access makes life easier - perhaps just an odbc connect and query command. Not all games are fps.


Karlos

If it ain't broke - try harder.
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Rob K
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 15:41
Karlos,

Either that or DB could implement its own database system, using a simple CSV style system.

what is a signature?
Kale
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 20:28
DBPro does NOT need OOP! if OOP is your thing use C++. DBPro is BASIC! leave it that way please.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Zed
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Posted: 26th Nov 2002 21:18
I need the ablity to save bitmaps/images.

And all the bugs fixed

Then I'll be happy

AsylumHunter
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Posted: 27th Nov 2002 02:26
32-Bit Alpha

Support for true Alpha using 32bit textures with additive, subtractive and blend flags.

Currently the alpha is derived from RGB intensity which limits its functionality - This feature would single handedly improve our projects


AsylumHunter

still falling out of my binary tree most evenings (hicup!)
MrTAToad
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 13:09
Ability to find out how much of a .X/BSP/sound/bitmap has been loaded at any given time.

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 19:40
Inbuilt Physics would be nice, since DBPro is a basic language it would be nice to cut out some calculations, just some simple rigid body physics on any object of any shape and maybe a little ragdoll physics for characters would be sweet. Maths engine is only like $50,000 US(if not more) why can't DBPro just have it in a simple patch
Sunny Day
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 22:49
Webcam or other capture device as texture.

Say -command (using xp:s speech generator).


Thanks.

Chenak
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 23:13
How about the abilty to create shader effects like in SW:JK2? I'm just having a hard time trying to make my models look decent

Also the ability to put extra textures that map onto 3d objects on a specific area (e.g. when a bullet hits the monster anywhere on it's body then a bullet hole is mapped upon where it hit the monster like in doom 3 if anyone has played the alpha leak )

I just think it'll be cool and make games alot more realistic.

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
Sunny Day
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Posted: 28th Nov 2002 23:43
And ability to convert your functions to
commands (or only locking functions , so
others can't examine them but can use them
freely)


rapscaLLion
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Posted: 29th Nov 2002 01:46
For anyone against OOP commands:
I hate change. Well really, major change. Minor changes and improvements are great. Major changes scare me. Which is why I originally objected to OOP. But when I actually thought about it, it makes sense. So here is a list of the best points FOR OOP in DB I found:

-Your BASIC commands will not be touched!!! You can totally ignore the OOP functions if you don't want them!
-Who cares what the original BASIC was like? Why should that limit the improvement/advancement of DBP? Just because it was based on basic, and has basic in the name, doesn't mean it can't be better than BASIC.
-Many say that if you want OOP, then you not program in C++ and leave DB alone. In response, I sadly say that YOU'VE MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT OF DB!!!
Which is to ELIMINATE the need for C++ and other programming languages for a hobbyist, or someone who doesn't WANT to program in C++ or other!!!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Easily Confused
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Posted: 29th Nov 2002 06:32
How about a profiler? So we can monitor the speed of our functions/routines.

Mind you, DBpro being fast as it is, do we realy need one?

"Earth is the cradle of humanity,
but one cannot live in a cradle forever"
Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky (1911)
Necrym
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Posted: 29th Nov 2002 09:03
It seems to me rather than making extra glossy eye candy to dbp just yet things should be concentrating on the existing command set and enhancing them a bit further.
Also this product has no gui/interface commands at all which makes creating a Direct X windows program almost rediculously harder than it needs to be. How about a simple
menu system. eg:

Menubar - creates a menubar (duh!)
Menu(#,name)
Menuitem(#,name),command

as well as a standard winapi open/save filename dialog
you then have a powerful graphic application language as well as gaming language.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
Mirthin
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 02:27
TWAIN32 support? That would be cool.

Who wants cake? I've got a little slice of hell for everyone.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 02:41
ya, menus... that would be cool.
And as Necrym said, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves! There are still an outragous amount of bugs and glitchs in DBP... the should be fixed and the existing commands improved on as first priority.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
DrakeX
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 03:56
"To add the possibility of reading/writing strings to the registry (not only integers)."

actually, these commands have been added, much to my surprise (and enjoyment) and without us being told! they are WRITE STRING TO REGISTRY and GET REGISTRY$().

lol -- TWAIN support -- just shows you the range of uses people want to use DB for

i'm looking at yooooou!
CajunCoder
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 07:35
What I would like to see in DBPro and what concerns me (BTW I dont have full version only demo)

What I'd like to see:
1# More Multiplayer stuff! I don't care what just usefull stuff I cant think of
2# Faster 3d and faster 3d collision.
3# take your time and make a good bug free and bug fixin patch!

What I'm concerned about (or better worded - have questions on):
Matrixs: see my matrix thread.
missing/not working commands: (atleast in demo) like allways active on and set window mode.
Lag: I have seen several posts about DBpro actuelly being more laggy than V1.13, So far I've found I get much better frame rates (except for with matrix bug I mention in my new topic) but I've not loaded any 3d models or anything yet, just played with particles mostly.

coyote
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 10:19
well... before adding anything, less bugs and better support that all we want to dbp and dbt.

too much isnt good...
Necrym
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 11:14
Yeah after looking through all the posts i think rapscaLLion is right also it does need some tinkering to tidy the product up a bit. As well the user base seems more varied than db was so i think the efforts should be in db's flexibility as a language eg application dev as well as games.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
Kale
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 21:45
Quote: "-Your BASIC commands will not be touched!!! You can totally ignore the OOP functions if you don't want them!
"

how on earth can you ignore OOP commands in an OO language? get real rapscaLLion. If DBPro ever incorporated OOP it would require an entire re-design and re-write of the entire language and it would effectively not be a basic anymore. If OOP was 'added' to DBPro now it would be a disaster, especially if it was half-assed and you was able to 'ignore' the OO within the language. Please carefully consider what 'adding' OOP would mean to the language and community as a whole. Many people here use DB and DBPro because of its power and simplicity, if the latter is changed many people accustomed to a precedural approach many drift towards blitz and purebasic, the latter of which is soon to be given a 3d engine. (All IMHO)

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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CajunCoder
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Posted: 30th Nov 2002 22:49
I'm kinda new to programing, but isnt Object Oreinted Programming commands like Turn object left/right or pitch object up/down which we allready have in DB?

Deion
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Posted: 1st Dec 2002 04:43
sequence support for halflife type mdl files

Cheers,
Deion G.
Bighead
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Posted: 1st Dec 2002 09:02
To DrakeX: yeah, you're completely right!

However, in my case, the funny thing is that when I write "Get Registry$", the syntax isn't highlited (blue) by the DBP editor.

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