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Geek Culture / Has the 10(+) year lifespan hit TGC???

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zenassem
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Posted: 28th Jan 2012 23:42
The reference of 10 years, applies usually to musicians (if they last that long)... there's usually a 10 year mark of brilliance before things go dim. Just wondering if the theory applies here. It just seems a little deft of activity around here. Perhaps that means people are working on things. I can remember a few years ago,, trying to keep up with 'Geek Culture'... nearly had to log-in hourly to not miss stuff. Now it seems a full week goes by, and the same posts are there. Same goes for dbpro and newcomers corner. Is it a sign that we have hit the cooling down period? Or, is everyone busy on AppGameKit? I'm not sure what, if anything, to make of it........

~ZENassem
WLGfx
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Posted: 28th Jan 2012 23:50
Nah, I've found that it always goes quiet on a Friday and Saturday night. For some reason... (maybe down the pub)...

And for me there's that much in the Geek Culture that I only keep an eye on just a handful.

Hopefully it isn't a cool down, but since AppGameKit has come out the forums have changed a lot.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Jan 2012 23:51
Dunno, I think every so often this forum does go quiet, I think some people end up stop posting, I mean the people who were engaging in shenanigans on Geek Culture 3 years ago are not the same as they are now (well, maybe a few of them are) and I think there was a moment of deadness. Members come and go and come back.

I remember last time people thought the place was a bit dead people were discussing how to make the forum more interesting and only the members can do that. AppGameKit is a new interest, however, I've not explored it myself yet. I'd like to say I'm one of the busy ones, but I am an excellent procrastinator, how else do you think I've managed to be a regular member for almost 8 years?

TheComet
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 00:13
Yeah I remember this forum to be more active 3 years ago... The problem I think is that members these days only read posts but don't reply to them. I'm guilty of this too

TheComet

zenassem
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 00:46
I figured especially after the holidays,, that this place would be hopping. I have a number of posts, that seem to be thread-enders, that I have given replies to (some even in this board). It's always nice to know if one's response helped,, or I used to like to read multiple solutions or spins; so that I may learn something as well. I understand not everyone replies even to there own questions/comments... but after the 5th thread like this... it sometimes feels lonely &&/|| personal. Maybe I need to alter my expectations... The only hopping thread seems to be about Pony's. So I may have to get into that, I suppose....

~ZENassem
Brendy boy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 01:15
I think that after Lee said there won't be a DirectX 10 version of dbpro a significant number of users stopped using dbpro and stop coming here, lots of people these days only come to geek culture to read/write about random stuff.

I also remember the days when i would come every day and see a bunch of new threads, now there are 2 or 3 semi active threads, some subforums seem quite dead to me, even FPSC Product Chat, which was one of the most active threads in the last few years

Hodgey
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 01:40
Quote: "I understand not everyone replies even to there own questions/comments... but after the 5th thread like this... it sometimes feels lonely &&/|| personal"

Ah, so I'm not the only one who feels like this. I like closure to threads I answer as well.

I have also noticed that the forums have become somewhat quiet. Maybe this forum needs an annual event that everyone can get involved with, like a TGC Olympic Games (it's certainly the year for it ).

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 01:42
I know I only visit here for the community now. I don't really post anything major.

Heck, one of the longest, most enduring threads right now is about My Little Pony.
Mychal B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 02:02
I thought the whole ingacremo was kinda like the olympics??? Hmm...I'd better start working out if I wanna win anything I guess

The fastfood zombie killer
Thraxas
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 04:36
I think people are moving onto UDK and Unity...

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
heyufool1
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 05:48 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 05:50
Quote: "I think people are moving onto UDK and Unity..."

I do love TGC for DarkGDK and getting me into programming and C++, but when it comes down to it, DBPro, FPSC, and DarkGDK are far behind Unity and UDK (Particularly UDK). TGC products are great for beginners looking for an understanding of how games work, but they just can't compete with the features in Unity and UDK.

Hopefully AppGameKit will spark some more life though

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"

MrValentine
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 10:14
I did notice the forums getting a bit quiet... but helps me read less and do more of my programming lol... I check the forums almost religiously lol... its very educational often...

Wolf
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 13:51 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 13:52
Quote: "I did notice the forums getting a bit quiet... but helps me read less and do more of my programming lol... I check the forums almost religiously lol... its very educational often..."


I agree... even though I recently have halted using TGC Software (however, all the creative media such as models and textures I obtained on this site are still making the prime materials for my artwork) but I do keep visiting the forums and the community 5 times a day minimum.



-Wolf

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
Quel
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 14:13
DBPro (which is practically TGC for me, since i don't really find any of their other stuff useful) is just as popular (and awesome) as how much time is spent on it - nothing whatsoever - by the company.

-Mental Hybrid: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~40% (primary project)
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS (canned) ~15%
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 29th Jan 2012 15:35
For the last one and a half years I've noticed a significant decrease in activity. It's partly due to the fact that a few of the seasoned forumers don't come on here much anymore. Grandma, Omega Gamer 89, TDK, Aaron, and a few others. They would all post some pretty great stuff, and ever since they've been gone (or at least not as active), things have slowed down. A lot.

I also agree that ever since TGC said DBP would not come out with a DX10 edition that a lot of people stopped using the product. I guess they all figured they'd learn XNA+C# or Visual Basic to use more advanced DirectX capabilities, which is actually what I'm doing, too. But I'm still using DBP to create some fun little games.


Quote: "Maybe this forum needs an annual event that everyone can get involved with"


This is what we have tried to do with NaGaCreMo every year since 2009. Obviously, it hasn't helped too much.


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Brendy boy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 16:33
Quote: "This is what we have tried to do with NaGaCreMo every year since 2009. Obviously, it hasn't helped too much"

1 month isn't enough to create something good and no prize isn't good enough to make people interested in

What TGC need is a year long competition with prizes, something like alienware competition back in 2004 and they need to advertize it a bit

BatVink
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 16:42
The forums go up and down in terms of post numbers. A lot of oldbies have grown out of Geek Culture and come here purely for programming discussions.

We have Facebook now for mindless drivel, which wasn't around for the first few years of TGC. You also find that mindless drivel turns people away. You often see that when people start posting off-topic in sensible threads, the more serious developers stop posting as much.

Wolf
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 16:51 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 16:55
Quote: "
We have Facebook now for mindless drivel, which wasn't around for the first few years of TGC. You also find that mindless drivel turns people away. You often see that when people start posting off-topic in sensible threads, the more serious developers stop posting as much."


Well, every forum has its offtopic "chill-out-lounge" including this one. But I agree, I have seen a certain amount of sheer spam in a couple of actually serious threads a while ago. Even IF a thread has served its purpose and all questions by the OP are answered does not mean that this post is free for shenanigans.

Quote: "more serious developers"


Really? I doubt that people who do this for a living actually visit these boards as its really aiming for hobbyists.... and if you take your hobby serious... Might be just me though.



-Wolf

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 19:02
I'll be honest, after having certain users post about three threads a day on inconsequential subjects, I wouldn't be surprised if people left.
TheComet
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 19:17 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 19:17
Quote: "This is what we have tried to do with NaGaCreMo every year since 2009. Obviously, it hasn't helped too much"

Quote: "1 month isn't enough to create something good and no prize isn't good enough to make people interested in"


I disagree. NaGaCreMo'12 has more participants than any of the last year's challenges (I'm talking about the ones that actually are on the WIP board, or have at least shown some progress. If you look at how many signed up then yeah, this year's is the lowest).

NaGaCreMo isn't meant to be a competition for someone to write a super uber mega MMORPGFPS, it offers enough time to make something small and cool, and 1 month is enough to do so.

It would be really cool if NaGaCreMo could be made official with prizes. Maybe then more will join?

TheComet

MrValentine
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 19:33
Im willing to throw prizes at winners... maybe I should start charging small prices for my comm project and give away powerful web apps to winners...

ionstream
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 19:52
Quote: "You often see that when people start posting off-topic in sensible threads, the more serious developers stop posting as much."


This is actually the biggest problem I have with Geek Culture. The "Non Constructive Posts" thread seems to be ignored, and doesn't include things like "THIS" or "+1", or "^". Joke threads are fine when they are infrequent and don't derail the thread.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 20:21
Quote: "This is actually the biggest problem I have with Geek Culture. The "Non Constructive Posts" thread seems to be ignored, and doesn't include things like "THIS" or "+1", or "^". Joke threads are fine when they are infrequent and don't derail the thread."


^This. +1 I kid of course, but I do see what you're getting at. I think if we can keep threads on topic - I think the odd off topic post doesn't hurt and sometimes it might be the proper course of the thread. It's quite a relaxed environment and I like it that way, but of course there is such thing as going overboard.

I think if we had more tech posts or cool things being posted in Geek Culture then we might get a bit of a boost. The Posting Competition was created to direct all the crap and 'General Chat' was renamed 'Geek Culture' to encourage more geeky threads rather than having General Chat getting...well...too general. Perhaps some 'interesting' posts even make it to the posting competition, e.g. I posted a Quantum Levitation video in the posting competition and the next day somebody made a thread with the same video and Quantum Levitation was discussed (and also how the video was a fake )

And granted, I think non-constructive posts do make their way in and that's probably a bit of a turn-away.




I think as far as NaGaCreMo goes, prizes would be against its purpose, it was designed to be something that's not judged. There is a community competition board, it's always worth trying something there. I think competition is a good motivator.

Brendy boy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 22:01
Quote: "I think competition is a good motivator"

and prizes are even beter!!

Chris Tate
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 23:32 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 23:32
There isn't a great deal of people online alot of the time. (20 to 30 members are shown to be online in the main forum footer)

To be honest, some forums out there have so many people on them it scares me. You make a post and it goes down to the next page in the same hour.

As was mentioned, competitions are motivational. Seeing other people create really good games is the most motivational thing for me personally; perhaps long term competitions may also be cool. I'm not 100% certain; but I tend to favour long term projects rather than short ones; but long term is more is difficult.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 06:56
Perhaps multiple competitions, more than just innagacremo... It only lasts for that month or so then its another 11 months until the next one. So like said above, a longer compo would be nice, or perhaps different compos, maybe only one at a time, but at any given time there would be one compo going. That IMO would significantly spark activity. We should come up with ideas for extra compos. Have a carrot while you think about future compos:

Copyright © 2012 dbd79
Hodgey
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 08:38
Quote: "Perhaps multiple competitions, more than just innagacremo... "

And hence, my TGC Olympic Games idea.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 09:26
The thing with yours is, again, it's only annual. It could though be one of the many that would happen year round.

Copyright © 2012 dbd79
Hodgey
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 09:41
Quote: "The thing with yours is, again, it's only annual. "

True, but I think having a competition at 'any given time' might be a bit too much. Maybe something in between then?

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 09:46
Perhaps... And i do agree with you, not ALL the time but very frequently, and if different people hosted different compos, it wouldnt matter how many there are, how frequent, and so forth... I dunno!

Copyright © 2012 dbd79
WLGfx
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 12:24
Gawd, I remember busting many joysticks when I had a ZX Spectrum playing some of those olympics games. Even the keyboard got a battering too on Daly Thompsons Decathalon. I hate sports games.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
BatVink
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 17:34
For those of you with any 3D design talent, there is a 3D modeling competition every month. Check the newsletter and 3D Chat board for the full details.

Maybe somebody would be prepared to do something similar for other areas? There is some possible room for a bit of Forum Kudos rather than prizes, as you can see the 3D compo winners get to sport a shiny badge for a month.

Wolf
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 17:49
To be honest, even though there is a shrinking of activity to be felt. I do not think that it is as bad as this thread makes it appear.

You usually get immediate responses to every thread and help in case you encounter any problems...I guess that is still covered.

However! I noticed that we do not get that many new members lately or am I mistaking?

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which ones to keep.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 01:37
Quote: "For those of you with any 3D design talent, there is a 3D modeling competition every month. Check the newsletter and 3D Chat board for the full details.

Maybe somebody would be prepared to do something similar for other areas? There is some possible room for a bit of Forum Kudos rather than prizes, as you can see the 3D compo winners get to sport a shiny badge for a month.
"


Dunno how well it'd go with making a game, perhaps a monthly demo challenge, where coders will have to come up with a demo based around a theme/genre. You could have 'racing game' one month and the next month, a 'War Game' (which could include FPS, RTS or what a person may interpret it to be). Ideally it'd mean game makers are experimenting with different ideas to expand their game making knowledge. Plus it means if they enter regularly, they've got a lot to show other people. Plus it means trying out projects you're unsure about.

The original idea with the 3D comp was to encourage people to model different sorts of things, perhaps things they wouldn't normally do, hence the themes. I has grown since then, but seems to keep the same purpose, but just gives more room for people to show off and to parade around the forum with a fancy badge.

Quik
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 02:06
Quote: "For those of you with any 3D design talent, there is a 3D modeling competition every month. Check the newsletter and 3D Chat board for the full details."


LIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS LIES I TELL YOU!!!
It wasnt any this month! >: xD
but yes, therre are 3d competitions each month, and we NEED more competitors! >; Its wicked fun though


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 02:52
And more than just 3D design. We need diff varieties of compos, not just 3D or course...

Copyright © 2012 dbd79
Fallout3fan
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 04:08 Edited at: 31st Jan 2012 04:12
I wonder how DBPro needs to step up its game. I think it needs to try impressing the XBOX360 and kicking up its graphical capabilities 200 percent to beat competition.

Edit: Like make an expansion to Dark Basic Pro that will make it compatible with better graphics.

_!!!!_
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__-____TheZachadoodle.________________________________
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 04:52
@Zach:

The only way to do that would be for TGC to add DirectX10+ support. Or they re-write the engine completely and use OpenGL to produce the graphics and get some cross-platform ability going.

Which is what they've done with AGK. Although it's only 2D so far, they have said 3D functionality will be a feature someday....


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 05:30
What TGC needs to do with DBPro is as follows imo:

Include DX10 and/or OGL support
Decrease complexity and inconsistency of the 2D sprite, image, and bitmap handling system, especially when it comes to re sizing and transparency

As it stands now, TGC's only really up to date product is AppGameKit, on top of that, it only supports 2D. Also, im not sure of this but it seems that they are focusing everything on mobile dev, when PC dev is still very big and will remain very big for quite some time...

Copyright © 2012 dbd79
Mychal B
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 06:16
3d modeling competition???

The only way I got my bear trap to work in blender was by making the teeth go the opposite way of the jaws.

"when the bear trap closed the teeth went below the trap, seemilngly flosting in air."

Then when I exported it it worked perfect Modeling isn't for me yet...

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Quik
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 08:06
Quote: "@Zach:

The only way to do that would be for TGC to add DirectX10+ support."


so, to make good graphics, you NEED Dx10+ support? well thats odd, since i see plenty good looking games out there without the use of dx10...


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Indicium
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 13:16
Quote: "The only way to do that would be for TGC to add DirectX10+ support. Or they re-write the engine completely and use OpenGL to produce the graphics and get some cross-platform ability going."


Even to add DX10 support, a complete( or at least partial ) rewrite would still be required. I think it relies on the windows Apis too ( don;t quote me on that one ) so cross platform is never going to happen, either.

Isn't darkbasic pro's sourcecode publicly available now? and am I the only person who can't tell the difference between DX9 and DX11?

Quik
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 16:56
Quote: "Isn't darkbasic pro's sourcecode publicly available now? and am I the only person who can't tell the difference between DX9 and DX11? "


I can, if it is USED.
"using DX11!!" doesnt necessary mean it uses the full potential of DX11, it might just mean it uses a few things here and there...


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Brendy boy
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 19:14
Quote: "so, to make good graphics, you NEED Dx10+ support?"

DirectX10 gives better framerates and dbpro need better framerates desperately. With better framerates we could have more advanced shader effects which leads to better graphics. DirectX10 provides possibility of great amount of characters without slow downs and we all know that characters are one of the biggest problems in dbpro

Isocadia
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 19:21
From my experience, DX10 only lowers my framerate, either I play on DX9 or I play on DX11
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 19:39
Yeah, DX10 seems to turn my framerate to treacle on any game I enable it on...
TheComet
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 19:49
I've also had the experience of DX11 and DX10 being slower than DX9 with all of my programs. I agree that it would be really cool to be able to take control of the new features, but you'd be trading that for some speed. Unfortunately Tessellation is only available in DX11 :/

Here's a cool video showing tessellation:



Keep in mind though that if DBP were to upgrade to DX10, Windows XP users wouldn't be able to run it unless there's some kind of DX9 fall back mode.

TheComet

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 20:00
A while back there was talk of a Dark Basic Pro X10 to be released after FPSC X10, there was even a video demonstrating the coding for Direct X 10 in DBP prior to the release of FPSC X10 and from what I understand is FPSCX10 was coded in this version.

Afterwards, we heard no word about it. Perhaps TGC dropped the idea seeing that DirectX 10 hasn't really replaced DirectX 9, as it was expected to, but became more of a choice. The lack of Windows XP support that probably did it, I mean many people weren't ready to move to Vista...heck not everybody's ready to move to 7 or even 8, which is on the horizon.

Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 20:17
I think TGC's real weak point is their compatibility, or lack thereof.

One good example is back in the days when with practically every new release of DBPro they'd change the DX requirement, meaning everyone (including end-users) had to update to the latest version to run the game without crashing (and until recently it was a silent crash, with no indication as to what was causing it, which caused a lot of confusion).

Another is a lack of unicode support, which seems to be the case for most or all of their software so far (although correct me if I'm wrong).

Yet another example is the way DBPro handles pointers under the hood, passing them as dwords, meaning a 64-bit version of the engine is out of the question until such things are corrected to be made compatible.

We can hope that if they do bring another development language out, it will have better backwards/forwards compatibility and proper language support.



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Brendy boy
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Posted: 31st Jan 2012 20:37
Quote: "From my experience, DX10 only lowers my framerate, either I play on DX9 or I play on DX11"
Quote: "I've also had the experience of DX11 and DX10 being slower than DX9 with all of my programs."

When i talked about better framerates i meant the gpu instancing that would bring better framerates to dbpro. It can be used for many characters on screen what many today's games have and dbpro sucks in that department. I also think that geomtry shaders would bring better framerates because dbpro's rendering in general seems a bit too slow, especialy when there are many objects with many different textures what dbpro handles throught limbs -> that is not the way that's usualy done so with geometry shaders we could have graphicaly more impresive terrains and open areas which currently aren't possible without huge frame drops while still keeping the other effects such as shadows and many characters

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