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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] A new project im starting in UDK. WARNING BIG PICS

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Slayer267
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 05:31 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 06:55
I am currently working on a project in UDK that is going to be one of my best.

I am not going to release any information like the story line or title, the reason why is because I do not want to make promises that I cannot do. The only information that I will release is that the game takes place in Bosnia and I am using the UDK engine (As Stated Above)

Here are the screenshots, tell me what you think! -






The game was originally going to be made in Unity but I killed that idea and decided UDK was better.

C&C very welcome.

What other people have said -

This looks better than Skyrim (Facebook)
The lighting is awesome! (Facebook)
This is not better than Skyrim (Facebook)

[url=www.carnageproduct.com][/url]
Blobby 101
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 11:26 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 11:26
Well it certainly looks very pretty and the lighting is great, so nice job there, but I'm pretty sure those are all just UDK default assets? I'd say, personally, you haven't got much of a project while all your models came with UDK, but maybe that's just me.

Good luck with it all the same, hope it goes well!
(Just a word of advice, unless you're planning to basically create an unreal tournament map, or a very basic FPS without weapons you'll need to get the hang of unreal script pretty early on or get a coder on board. I found that out the hard way with Vision)

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 14:41
Making a pretty level with UDK is easy. More so when you use the default assets, tbh.

You could use Ambient Occlusion work on the lighting, though. It'll soften out shading such as in the final picture. You should set your Shadow colour to a dark blue, too. It looks more natural.

Also, when taking screenshots from the editor, click the Joystick button. That enables Game Mode, and removes all the little placemarker icons.

However, as I said. Nice work making something that looks good in UDK. But good luck getting your head around UScript to add any functional elements to it.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 15:22
Quote: "This looks better than Skyrim (Facebook)"

Skyrim, didnt really focus on the graphics that much. they just managed to get less fancy mediocre graphics to look really good. I noticed that they didnt use a lot of fancy shaders. Its really amazing that skyrim managed to make the game look so good using mostly textures without shaders (ok there were a few shaders but you barley notice them) as well as somewhat lower poly models than oblivion and have it look so amazing for that level of graphics.

also the screenshots here are awesome and i am curious as to why you chose UDK over unity. I wanted to get into unity and i am curious about why someone would not want to use inity as i heard its an amazing engine.


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Indicium
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 20:20
Quote: "Skyrim, didnt really focus on the graphics that much. "


Are you kidding? Skyrim looks unreal. Shaders != good graphics.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Slayer267
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 20:33
Quote: "Are you kidding? Skyrim looks unreal. Shaders != good graphics."


Actually, the skyrim lighting looks like crap to me. I run it full performance and it still sucks lol

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Indicium
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 20:36
Looks great to me, do better.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 20:52
Quote: "Actually, the skyrim lighting looks like crap to me. I run it full performance and it still sucks lol"


Please, don't bash games because someone told you yours looks better.

I can safely say that Skyrim had far more depth and detail to its design.
Slayer267
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 21:23
Quote: "Please, don't bash games because someone told you yours looks better."


I'm not but the trailers always looked better than the actual game, here. To me, the game has always just looked weird and choppy, yes, it still looks good but it just has that been there done that feeling to me.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 21:27
Quote: "Are you kidding? Skyrim looks unreal. Shaders != good graphics."
there seem to be a lot less shaders than in oblivion and most of them seem kindof suddle (no shininess or exess bumpiness) mostly shaders that work with light which blend in very well.

Quote: "Actually, the skyrim lighting looks like crap to me. I run it full performance and it still sucks lol"

might be your graphics card. lighting is something i always found to improve a lot after a videocard upgrade since its a thing about DX11 stuff.


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Slayer267
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 21:30
Quote: "might be your graphics card."


I have a Nvidia GTX 560M... What is there to upgrade?

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 21:52 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 21:54
Quote: "I have a Nvidia GTX 560M... What is there to upgrade?"

notebook graphics are always significantly less powerful than desktop, but perhaps youu could dig up a GTX 580m or GTX595m? or a GTX 680m?

i only played skyrin on my HD5870 and i found the lighting wonderfull. Perhaps you are using a mod that modifies the weather and lighting and it ended up looking crappier than expected


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JLMoondog
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 22:01 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 22:07
I hate to say it...this is beautiful:


Your game has a long way to go too match that quality. People see pretty lights and think it looks good. You need to learn how to construct a scene, give it layers, depth and character. Your screens show that you've learned how put the default media in a scene and take a screenshot.

I don't want to sound mean, but bashing Skyrim makes no sense. Anyone who thinks Skyrim doesn't utilize shaders correctly or enough has no idea what their talking about. Oblivion was more cartoonish then realistic(I'm talking vanilla). Skyrim uses realistic lighting, not the Bloom effect we've been use to in last generation games.

Here's a nice side-by-side comparison of Skyrim and Oblivion. It's easy to see how much the shader work in Skyrim is far superior then Oblivion's.


The terrain blending in particular is the best I've ever seen in any game to date.

Norion
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 22:22 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 22:25
I can't agree more with Josh. Skyrim is one of the best games I've ever played. My mouth littirly fell open when I saw the nightsky with the beautifull moon and stars, trees and mountains for the first time. besides the amazing graphics, it gives you one hell of a gameplay expirience. best game EVERRRRRR.

--- Now on topic.

yup gotta agree with you slayer, your game looks kinda nice. But wait a second.

Quote: "I am not going to release any information like the story line or title, the reason why is because I do not want to make promises that I cannot do."


Are you saying that your storyline or game idea isn't finished yet ??? So you started to design and create some scenery's without a proper gameplay idea ? I did that to a few years ago, didn't work out so well.

Quote: "I do not want to make promises that I cannot do."


But it is UDK, you can make any game with it. I'm beginning to think that you don't have a storyline at all. ( please tell me I'm wrong )

anyway, the scenery's that you created look good. I'll bet you are a creative person .


Cheers and good luck with your game,

Martin.


(none of the above said things are meant to offend you, or to flame)

PC specs: CPU: Intel core i5-2400 3.1 Ghz 6Mb. GPU: Radeon HD 6850 2Gb. RAM: 24 Gb DDR 3. Case: CM Stormtrooper.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 22:25
Quote: "I am not going to release any information like the story line or title, the reason why is because I do not want to make promises that I cannot do"


To be fair, you're unlikely to innovate much with story. It's a simple fact that it'll be summarised as "Like X but with Y..."

You need a story to build a serious game, though. Even just a basic one.
Beno09
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 22:30
I don't see the point of comparing Skyrim amazing style to anything else.
However, this looks pretty nice and it's interesting that it's taking place in Bosnia where i'm from. Maybe I can help you with some details.
You're working alone on this or ? Also as someone mentioned already it seems that you're using most of default UDK assets and that's something that you should try to change if you have the team or someone who will work with you on the assets and other stuff.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 00:37
Quote: "I don't want to sound mean, but bashing Skyrim makes no sense. Anyone who thinks Skyrim doesn't utilize shaders correctly or enough has no idea what their talking about. Oblivion was more cartoonish then realistic(I'm talking vanilla). Skyrim uses realistic lighting, not the Bloom effect we've been use to in last generation games."

Ok i admit i dont know what i am talking about, but i never meant to say skyrims shaders arent utilised correctley. if anything they are utilised beautifully. I dont know how other people see skyrim, but, to me the first time i played it, i thought that a lot of skyrims surfaces didnt look like they had shaders in the traditional sence. Surfaces looked similar to DX8 surfaces of morrowind but drawn incredibly well. And at first i thought that they managed to make the game look good without abusing any shaders in the traditional sence (shiny, bumpy, reflecty 3d looking shaded surfaces) I realise that there are simple shader effects that softly react to the lighting.
What skyrim did was beautiful, but to me Skyrim seriosly looks like shaderless DX8 level game that was drawn so well, it would look better without shaders. And i admit, its better on the eyes too. Modern games just spam too many fancy shaders at you which overload your visual sences and dont let your eyes relax.


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ionstream
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 01:12
Skyrim looks like a nice stylish painting, but it doesn't look ultra realistic. The screenshots look good.

rolfy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 02:19 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 02:43
Game assets and level designs are created by artists who have particular styles, some good some bad and some excellent, thing is without consistent style you will have a mish-mash of different styles which just wont click together without a great deal of work, and its a skill of its own.
When comparing Skyrim and Oblivion you are comparing artists.

Your screenshots are actually not bad but you make very simple mistakes particularly concerning proportion and consistency of media.
The second shot has trees, the same tree placed everywhere, simply scaled and rotated, you have trees growing out of rocks (even the shots from Skyrim and oblivion have this error but its forgivable since they used scattering and your going to get the odd one doing that) and the scale is so off that this ruins the perspective, the grass is way too large, particularly in the third screenshot.

The haze in the third shot is way too high and if you hadn't included the house and fence I would have thought it was a close shot of a piece of ground with small bushes placed around it.
The last shot is nice enough, though if that rubble had caved in from the roof then those thin rafters would have fell with it and wouldn't have supported those huge blocks in the first place.

What I am getting at is if you are going to set your game in a specific place that exists then you need to research it, what kind of trees and flora grow there, is the architecture correct?
So far it looks more medieval (Skyrim, Oblivion, fantasy due to using stock assets) and I would have no idea where this is taking place.

One last thing if you intend to create a full game with UDK you need a skilled team to do it, you simply wont be creating it on your own as many have found before you, those assets you used in your shots have complex materials and shaders that you wont be creating on your own without learning how to do it, and UDK has a huge learning curve. Then you got to figure how to get some gameplay happening, this is what separates the guy that throws in some models takes a screenshot and the guy that at least attempts to get weapons and characters into a level.

One final last thing lol, don't post huge images like this it stretches the page making it very difficult to read.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 02:41
I have to agree with Rolfy, having spent two years with UDK.

You can master a lot, but unless you learn to be a darned good everything, you can never make more than the most basic game in it.

You'll need a team, and those can be hard to gather unless you prove you can provide the goods.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 04:16
Quote: "(even the shots from Skyrim and oblivion have this error but its forgivable since they used scattering and your going to get the odd one doing that)"

I knew Oblivion used scattering, but listening to Skyrim developer team interviews, i remember hearing that Skyrim was manually sculpted and decorated without using any scattering or randomization techniqes. They said that every tree and rock was manually placed by the landscape artist. And to their defence, Skyrim does not look like any of that stuff was used, rock randomisation and tree scattering could not create something as good as Skyrims landscape. And that tree in a rock might be a slight error. I have seen trees grow on rocks before in real life, its not unusual. Also i didnt even notice that tree in the Skyrim screenshot untill it was pointed out.

Quote: "What I am getting at is if you are going to set your game in a specific place that exists then you need to research it, what kind of trees and flora grow there, is the architecture correct?"

thats why imaginary worlds are easier to create, you just pull it out of your head. But you still need a damn good imagination to pull off something good thats interesting, uniqe and makes sence.

Actually i take that back, i was working on my imaginary world for 4 years now, have several notebooks and a bunch of drawings and it still kinda sucks.

As for UDK, (btw i am still curious on why UDK over Unity?)
I never tried Unity (i still plan on trying it), but i had a few days of experience with UDK and it was good if you wanna make a simple FPS game and have models. What turned me off about it it was too closed in. i tried to figure out a way i can simulate a terrain system i made in dark basic, After reading their forums, i realized that if i want to make anything tryly my own with UDK i would need to modify the engine itself as unlike dark basic where you start from scratch in an open ended environment, UDK it starts you off in premade environment assuming you want to make an FPS. making UDK close-ended for something i wanted to do.

Quote: "You can master a lot, but unless you learn to be a darned good everything, you can never make more than the most basic game in it.

You'll need a team, and those can be hard to gather unless you prove you can provide the goods. "

I say give the game a try anyway. If you wont actually complete your game, you will learn a bunch of useful stuff along the way. I thought i could take up a task of making something like morrowind (with simpler graphics) using dark basic. I got decentley far actually, i had a working terrain system similar to what morrowind had (realtime loading/deleting terrain cells around my charecter as he moved) that gave me a huge amount of seamless terrain that otherwise dark basic would crash from trying to run it. I also had a day/ night cycle and for making a morrowind clone, wasnt a bad start. I never finished the thing of course and my HDD fried anyway burning 3 years of of my work. Still learned a good amount from that. So whatever people say, about projects like these, if you think you can accomplish them, go for it, you wont loose anything.


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old_School
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 04:23 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 04:31
Id say looks better than most posted on here, Id go as far to say dare someone to do better if they didn't like it. Its pretty pro for indie.

Edit:
Things like the above posts really urk me. People comparing a good indie game design to a commercial game built over several years with hundreds of seasoned vets making it. Seriously stop comparing indie games to super high quality games. When you can afford the budget Skyrim had pretty sure you’ll be pumping out roses too. Unity and UDK as well are both very good engines to use for 3d. Of course they would be good or millions of people would not still be using them and pumping out commercial games every year. You don’t need a large pro team to build a good game but you should not compare your game to games with million dollar budgets ether. Good work love it. If I every branch off into publishing and you finish the game, I’ll publish it. It looks fantastic.
Thraxas
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 04:44 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 05:27
Quote: "Things like the above posts really irk me. People comparing a good indie game design to a commercial game built over several years with hundreds of seasoned vets making it. Seriously stop comparing indie games to super high quality games"


Maybe you should go back and read the OP because it is there where the comparing of Indie games and Commercial games started:

Quote: "This looks better than Skyrim (Facebook)"



If you look at what can be done with UDk then I think that most of the people here could create something that looks that good in not long at all. However, pretty scenery is not a game, so it can look as fantastic all it wants if there is no game to go with it, it really isn't anything.

Also I see no reason why an Indie game can't be a "super high quality game".

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 05:17
Quote: "Things like the above posts really urk me. People comparing a good indie game design to a commercial game built over several years with hundreds of seasoned vets making it. Seriously stop comparing indie games to super high quality games."

Everyone needs something to compare their work to as well as a good example of what they want to acheve in the process. large commercial games are usually a good example to work toward even if you never reach it. If not a commercial game, then what would you compare it to then? another indie game? an older generation large commercial game?


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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 06:19 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 06:33
Quote: "Id say looks better than most posted on here, Id go as far to say dare someone to do better if they didn't like it. Its pretty pro for indie."

I would go so far as to say its not the OP's game at all since he didn't create the assets only dropped them in and took screenshots whilst stating that he wont release the games storyline or anything else for that matter, (really means he is still to think of this and will depend on what media he can get his hands on), anyone around here could do this, yourself included, but you wont get any further than this without a great deal of skill time and effort.
So before getting irked you should consider the fact that its not even indie if its not your own work in this context, its merely level design and as has been pointed out its not great level design.

My comparison to this is sampling someone else's music, remixing it and asking for critique on what a great musician/songwriter you are, it might make you a good DJ but not a musician.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 06:33
Quote: "Are you saying that your storyline or game idea isn't finished yet ??? So you started to design and create some scenery's without a proper gameplay idea ? I did that to a few years ago, didn't work out so well."


Yes, we do have a story lined, but we don't want something official released because it can be changed. The title is staying though.

Here is a new screenshot of a jungle like area (Ruins)


Now when someone said it looks better than skyrim, I took it as a compliment. I did not want it to start a giant argument. Anyways. The new screenshot includes new trees.

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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 06:41 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 06:52
Looks like were going to to get the same old run around with the OP posting and everyone else getting heated with each other while he ignores any negative comments on his work.
Coffeegrunt, a heads up, if I were ever to look for anyone to work with me on a UDK project I would give you a shout, two years sticking with it says a lot, particularly since it has become such a beast to learn now.

Bosnian jungle...nuff said.
I am so out of here

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Mr Bigglesworth
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 09:01
Where are the screenshots?
Vent
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 12:54
Quote: "Where are the screenshots?"


They're not showing up for me either.


PAGAN_old
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 12:56
I see them fine. A few hours ago, they dissapeared somewhere but reappeared soon after.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 13:26
Quote: "Id say looks better than most posted on here, Id go as far to say dare someone to do better if they didn't like it. Its pretty pro for indie."


Whilst it looks very good, he is using premade assets in UDK so much of the work can't be attributed to him, his work is the composition and not the media. Of course, in terms of design practice makes perfect and the guy can work with UDK and end up with a decent looking game and if he gets to grips with it, it might be a good step forward from using FPSC and his next project could be an improvement, however, UDK is harder to learn but hopefully it works out. Some of the feedback (like rolfy's) should help him in the right direction. I realise much of the discussion is about Skyrim's graphics, but that kinda stemmed off somebody else's comments.


Anyway, Slayer, I think it's a nice start to UDK, it'll be interesting to see where you take it from here, but I do agree with Rolfy's comments. Well good luck.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 13:47
Quote: "Coffeegrunt, a heads up, if I were ever to look for anyone to work with me on a UDK project I would give you a shout, two years sticking with it says a lot, particularly since it has become such a beast to learn now."


I finished at about March last year, so I'll probably be a little rusty. Still, I got to grips with a lot of the editor, and managed to get some areas of vehicles and weaponry sorted. Still, a lot of that was tearing up UT3 script to find pieces I liked, then threading them together.

Has to be said, though. For something to put time into and learn, it's definitely interesting to set yourself against. It's also helped boost my knowledge of game production a fair bit, which is helping for Ponycraft. Also, in reality it's just like FPS Creator. Only the UI is more complex because it does infinitely more, and everything is handled internally in your editor.

Well, aside from the scripting language. It simply lacks documentation to help, but the user base often provides tutorials.

And Slayer, you have deciduous forest in one shot, tropical jungle in the next.

Is this a linear story, or open-world? Do you have maps and level plans? What enemies are featuring? What genre is it? Will it be 1st, 3rd, or Isometric?

Do not go into UDK idly, or you will spend a lot of time circling, in order to achieve very little. :/

Plan everything, then move. Gather whoever you can who can model and texture, they're worth their weight in gold for that engine.

It's also worth noting, that I believe using stock UDK assets for a final, commercial game isn't allowed. I think. Most of them are from UT3, so generating a pipeline for your own content is a must.
Slayer267
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 20:02
Quote: "Is this a linear story, or open-world? Do you have maps and level plans? What enemies are featuring? What genre is it? Will it be 1st, 3rd, or Isometric?"


Open world with plot, will include multiplayer. Many types of enemys. Genre will be RPG

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 20:15
So you're making an MMORPG?

Mate...good luck.
Beno09
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 20:46
Quote: "Mate...good luck."


This was enough.

But really, is this your first project in UDK ? And you're already making open world RPG that will include multiplayer ? You better to not start on this if you don't have talented team because today gaming world is full of MMORPG-s.

-In trouble you know a hero;
-If you don't start, you won't finish;
-Without suffering, there is no learning.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 20:47
Yeah, for the record.

If it can be summarised as, "Like World of Warcraft, but..."

Just...think of something else if that is indeed the case.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 21:14
I would not underestimate the size of such a project - not impossible, but not an easy goal, nor something I would recommend as a first project. RPGs I think are fine for a new project as pretty much all of mine are RPGs, but I would pick a project idea that's manageable and works with your own skills, which I'm sure you'll figure out the more you'll learn UDK.

As for 'like WoW', I would agree, as an MMORPGamer I get pretty tired of the numerous games that can be summarised as 'like WoW, but' and yes, here I am playing Mists of Pandaria, but then if it's 'like WoW', then I might as well play WoW, which has a large amount of content because it has been around for donkeys years and already has a strong player base. Which to be honest is one of the reasons I think SW:TOR didn't do as well as it was expected to.

Poloflece
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 05:02 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 05:05
Here's some WIP on media for the project. So yes, some non-stock media.




Poloflece

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 14:28
I'd recommend breaking large structures into individual components. Not only does it allow more creative freedom in design, but it compliments UDK's loading system much better as well.
Poloflece
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 14:51
Quote: "I'd recommend breaking large structures into individual components."


Ah you see, that's exactly what I've done (the towers, walls, doors etc are all seperate assets).

Poloflece

Slayer267
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 14:30
Thank you for posting those Polo

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 15:08
So how large is the team in production of this piece, then?
Poloflece
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 16:36 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2012 16:39
It is a group of seven, however I am unaware if the other 4 members even contribute in their currently insignificant roles (their roles do not involve game development ), essentially there's a...

Level designer/project leader -Slayer267
Level designer/asset designer Phoenix16 (who regardless is occupied on his own project)
and asset designer - one Poloflece.

So essentially, we have a project needing assets, and 1 guy to make them, I understand how this could be quite.. inadvisable
Any 3d artists seeking a project I'm sure Ervin would welcome into the project (I believe he is willing to pay for assets).

Poloflece

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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 17:07
Yeah guys. Especially when you're toting the calibre UDK demands. High poly models, with normal, specular and displacement maps.

If you want a little help in tips and tricks, I think I can redownload a newer version and get acquainted. I have some materials I can probably share, plus extra things like LOD Handling, Animtrees structuring, vehicle and weapons scripts...

I basically dabbled in various areas over the years, may as well give you guys a hand in whatever areas I have lying around. Makes sense to get some practical use out of it all.
Slayer267
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2012 05:20
CoffeeGrunt can you script in UDK?

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2012 10:57
In a limited manner, yes. Mainly in a first person preset, though. I won't be able to build your MMO for you, that's beyond my abilities.
Slayer267
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2012 15:11 Edited at: 4th Oct 2012 05:13
Very well then...

EDIT - Actually, you said you could do vehicles right? Well, can you make like a boat?

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Wolf
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Posted: 4th Oct 2012 15:00
Quote: "I'd recommend breaking large structures into individual components. Not only does it allow more creative freedom in design, but it compliments UDK's loading system much better as well. "


...and collision if you dont use a collision model.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Oct 2012 16:42
UDK has the ability to generate its own collision models within the editor. It can also do a basic polygon reduction to create different LODs of your model, too.
Wolf
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Posted: 4th Oct 2012 16:59
Quote: "UDK has the ability to generate its own collision models within the editor. It can also do a basic polygon reduction to create different LODs of your model, too. "


That was my point

I said that having a lot of smaller props to build a castle for example results in more accurate generated collision than having one large model.

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