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Geek Culture / Moderation on this Forum

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TheComet
17
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 22nd May 2013 15:10
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I thought about staying quiet about this, but a combination of post-rage of recent events and past "moderation" pushed me over my threshold.

Feel free to insult me and/or flame me for this, I don't mind.

My Issues

* Moderation on a personal level. Very recently I was banned in an act of short-tempered rage by a moderator on a personal level. Granted, it was not a long ban, but that does not invalidate its unfairness. This was the ban message:



These so-called "crap messages" were all posted in The Posting Competition, and contained nothing that would violate the AUP. The moderator simply grew tired of having to approve my posts, and banned me. The posts still haven't appeared to this day.

Moderators should not have their "favorites", all users should be treated equally. I know for a fact there are moderators out there who are just waiting for me to slip, so they can smash that ban button, just because I am TheComet.

* Moderators avoiding contact. When people are banned and/or noob slapped, I feel the targeted user at least has the right to know why and who. I understand that moderators don't have a nice job. Moderating troublesome users is a tough thing to do, and can quickly drain patience. But moderation is not about how the moderator or the targeted user is feeling, it is about cold, hard, objective decisions in relation to the AUP. Letting the user know who and why needs to be part of the procedure of punishment, regardless of emotions. It's the formal thing to do. If moderators avoid this, it's either because a) the reason for slapping/banning was extremely obvious, or b) the moderator feels threatened if they were to reveal themselves.

Most of my attempts at contacting moderators about the banning above were avoided. Again, this is probably on a personal level. Obviously the moderator in question doesn't want to further put up with the annoying user he/she just banned, but by letting the user know who and why (as explained in the last paragraph), the user wouldn't feel so obligated to send e-mails, unless the user feels he/she has been treated unfairly.

* Post Approval takes ages sometimes. Maybe it's just my username. Maybe every moderator who glances at the post approval queue goes "oh god, not HIM again! I'll pass this one".

Posts by me, especially on the DBPro/DBNewcomer/The Posting Competiion, take forever until they are approved. There doesn't seem to be a queue behind the scenes, because there have been numerous cases where posts created later are approved first and vice-versa (on the same board).

My point is, I see really awful threads being approved on other boards (advertisement, or an obvious troll post) which really shouldn't make it through approval, and I question whether these are intentionally approved or not.

* Offensive Imagery. I was slapped again, most likely due to an "artsy" GIF image I posted in the posting competition.

I'm not arguing my case here. I simply would like a clearer definition of what is allowed and what isn't.

Why are videos with guns/shooting/blood or songs with offensive lyrics allowed on this forum, when people completely freak out when they see even the slightest hint of a woman's breasts?

The image I posted portrayed a woman opening her chest to let butterflies fly out. The image was only black and white (literally two colours), and only the outline of the woman was drawn.

My problem is that the image would have been accepted if it portrayed a man. In fact, it would have probably also been accepted if I edited in black stripes over the breasts.

And for that matter, the breasts weren't even central to the image. I posted it because it had a deeper, artistic meaning to it, and thought others would enjoy that about it as well.

So yeah, I'd like some clearer guidelines, because the next thing I know, I'll be banned for posting a harmless picture of a horse race because "the rear end of the horse was visible" or something.

My Pledge

I would highly appreciate it if the moderator(s) who has/have personal issues with me would contact me directly, so we can potentially resolve any conflicts.

I ask nothing more.

As you can see from this post, and possibly from e-mails between me and other moderators, I am very much capable of remaining calm and composed.

Discussion

This is my side of the equation, and I would like to hear what other users and moderators think about this.

I'm not angry towards any of the moderators or my situation, even if the correct human response would be otherwise. I also do not mean to personally attack any of the moderators or users.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
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Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 22nd May 2013 17:39
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One thing to keep in mind... the posting competition is a septic tank full of all the nonsense posts that people want to make, but shouldn't be allowed to annoy the rest of the forum.

If you are on post approval, don't post in the posting competition thread - because that thread is there to catch all the rubbish, it's there because we don't want to deal with it - we don't want to have to approve umpteen posts for that thread, it adds nothing to the forum, it's not worth our time. I'm guessing that normal posts are approved much quicker, for a second put yourself in our shoes, looking at page of posts needing approved - why on earth would we approve a post from the posting comp before a real post - why should we approve them at all. Maybe it should be added to the rules - if you are on post approval, don't post rubbish or it won't be approved... is there something miss-leading about the term post approval? - it means we approve your posts, if your post is rubbish then we won't approve it, we'll just get sick of it and start wondering if a ban is more warranted than a slap.

My other point is that moderators have a lounge, this is basically just a section of forum where we discuss users and their actions, and any actions we might have planned. Moderators very rarely act on their own instincts with stuff like this - we are able to make mistakes as well, misread the situation, maybe even act too harshly - and it's typical that things are discussed in our lounge before a moderator will take serious action.

So, those points again:

If you are on post approval, we don't care how quickly your posts are approved... we really don't care if they ever get approved.

If you are on post approval, we are stringent on what posts we approve, dealing with rubbish posts that add nothing to the forum are not what we signed up for.

Moderators discuss most actions - the forum is fairly quiet right now, we have plenty of time to consider this stuff and discuss it with other mods.

It's the way it is - and the only way to improve things is to act like a responsible, mature, and considerate forum user. Moderators notice 2 things here above all else... someone trolling, and someone going out of their way to be a positive influence.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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Michael P
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Location: London (UK)
Posted: 22nd May 2013 17:53
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Sort of on topic.

Moderators are not catching some key cases. Antondbpro is some sort of bot posting useless stuff yet his posts are being approved. He even uploaded a potentially harmful exe with no explanation the day he created his account, yet this post got approved!

e.g. http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=205529&b=1

DarkNet - multiplayer plugin
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Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 18:01
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Just pressed the big red button on that user MichaelP - No idea what the issue was with the posts being approved though, I tend to only approve posts as I find them, not from the approval list.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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baxslash
Valued Member
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Location: Duffield
Posted: 22nd May 2013 18:09
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TheComet, I have personally never had a problem with you or your posts. I haven't followed your recent activity other than wondering what your "artsy" image was. It was borderline art at best to be honest and if my kids were on this forum and saw it I would not be happy (that is what I personally judge these things on).

Moderation is something I do as and when I see a post that awaits approval. Other Mods probably do things differently, there is no queue that I am aware of but I don't have official duties like other mods may have.

What I do know having been a forumite for many years here and since getting access to the mod lounge I have found that they discuss a great deal before taking action on anyone (good or bad) and care a lot about keeping the forum a friendly, helpful place to come. I personally place most of the reasons I like coming here on their shoulders and would think twice about contradicting them, not because of the "power" they have but because they have helped build this sanctuary.

I have often said to other forum users that I will always answer emails. You can contact me anytime you are not getting a reply or as a first port of call. I can guarantee I will not take action without consulting other mods under most occasions but I will do my best to help anyone who has an issue.

For the record I don't work for TGC any more and may not retain my Mod status (I don't know yet) but I will still help people when I can. Please don't ask for details why I no longer work for TGC it is amicable and for the good of TGC and the community.

Anyway, the best advice I can give you is to take it easy and come back positive. Maybe avoid the posting comp for a while?


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 18:28
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I can understand where the moderators are coming from when they get annoyed with having to approve nonsense posts on the posting competition thread (I was lucky enough to get away with it last time though!). Since the moderators are spending their free time moderating the forums without compensation, I think there's a limit of what you can ask them to put up with. I'd say it's best to avoid posting nonsense while on post approval. Actually, I'd suggest not posting nonsense at any time, but that's hard for some of us.

As for the nudity thing, I can say that as a Brit we are quite prudish about such things, often treating it as if it's more offensive than violence (how the human body can be considered 'offensive' is anyone's guess). Since the image was clearly not offensive to everyone perhaps a warning would have been a better choice than a slap, but that's just my view. Others might expect you to be more sensitive.

Quote: "Letting the user know who and why needs to be part of the procedure of punishment, regardless of emotions."


I agree with this. It'd be great if someone were to implement an automated system to e-mail the user upon ban/slap, with the reason. I've sometimes been put on post approval in the past and not known why (because at times I've posted a lot of crap in several threads and forgotten about them), so it's sometimes hard to know what's not acceptable if you're not told about it. Being punished without knowing why really makes the punishment pointless, unless your aim is to make someone feel bad about something they didn't realise was wrong.

Quote: "So yeah, I'd like some clearer guidelines, because the next thing I know, I'll be banned for posting a harmless picture of a horse race because "the rear end of the horse was visible" or something."


As long as it's not a colourful pony in a suggestive pose I'm sure it'll be fine.

I'm infamous. Enter my name here for proof.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 18:55 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 18:57
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Personally, I think 99% of the time there is no need for disciplinary action. In general, the mods here are pretty good at giving warnings, or locking threads if they are becoming heated or moving outside the AUP, without resorting to bans or slaps. Applying the letter of the law generally causes more problems than it solves (having to approve thecomet's "crap" being one of them). Rules are there to give mods the authority to prevent and diffuse situations, using them heavy-handedly doesn't help anyone.

I can understand that sometimes you might get fed up and just want to bring down the ban hammer, it takes a lot of time and effort to try and be passive and reason with people. I have also noticed a few bots creeping in. Maybe some of the mods are getting worn out?

How many mods do we have, out of interest?

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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Quik
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 19:12
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Quote: "* Moderators avoiding contact. When people are banned and/or noob slapped, I feel the targeted user at least has the right to know why and who. I understand that moderators don't have a nice job. Moderating troublesome users is a tough thing to do, and can quickly drain patience. But moderation is not about how the moderator or the targeted user is feeling, it is about cold, hard, objective decisions in relation to the AUP. Letting the user know who and why needs to be part of the procedure of punishment, regardless of emotions. It's the formal thing to do. If moderators avoid this, it's either because a) the reason for slapping/banning was extremely obvious, or b) the moderator feels threatened if they were to reveal themselves.
"



You can literarily mail ANY mod and he can have a look at the issue - thats really not an issue tbh - the mail button is there for a reason



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 19:14 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 19:16
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Quote: "The image I posted portrayed a woman opening her chest to let butterflies fly out. The image was only black and white (literally two colours), and only the outline of the woman was drawn."


The image wasn't exactly an outline; you could tell depth, as in the breasts. Before opening her chest full of butterflies, she grabs and twists her breasts in (what some would call) a suggestive manner. You've been told on far more than one occasion that this is a Family Friendly forum. You chose, yet again, to ignore this. Your definition of appropriate is obviously different than ours.

Quote: "Since the image was clearly not offensive to everyone perhaps a warning would have been a better choice than a slap, but that's just my view"


That would be fine, if it was his first offense; however, we practice progressive discipline here. Whether it was offensive to anyone here or not, it was a clear breach of the AUP; of which (I'm sure), The Comet has full knowledge of.

Quote: "Personally, I think 99% of the time there is no need for disciplinary action."


After Moderating this place (with the other Mods), for going on 7 years now...I disagree. Whether you think we're "heavy-handed" or not, does not interest us. We do what we need to do, to keep this place out of flameland, and running smoothly. We give PLENTY of warnings; which often go unheeded.

Active Mods, I'd say about half a dozen or so.

EDIT: Quik is correct.

-Keith

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rolfy
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 20:33 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 20:41
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Quote: "Very recently I was banned in an act of short-tempered rage by a moderator on a personal level. Granted, it was not a long ban, but that does not invalidate its unfairness."
I have seen many,many posts around here that ignore the AUP, not just from you. Thing is, you all want democracy and even handedness so long as it doesn't apply to you personally. It also never ceases to amaze me how folks seem to think its always personal and nothing to do with breaking the rules when they get a slap.

Quote: "I know for a fact there are moderators out there who are just waiting for me to slip, so they can smash that ban button, just because I am TheComet."
TBH I dont think they care if your The Comet or The Meteorite,

Quote: "I would highly appreciate it if the moderator(s) who has/have personal issues with me would contact me directly, so we can potentially resolve any conflicts."
Again its personal...I really dont think it is, I think you decide the rules don't apply and so it must be personal, after all your The Comet.

Quote: "Actually, I'd suggest not posting nonsense at any time, but that's hard for some of us."
It's not nonsense, its personal.

Quote: "As for the nudity thing, I can say that as a Brit we are quite prudish about such things"
This has nothing to do with offending adults except in the sense that they dont want their kids exposed to it...in fact its not prudish...its personal.

Quote: "Personally, I think 99% of the time there is no need for disciplinary action."
Personal opinion?

Quote: "It was borderline art at best to be honest and if my kids were on this forum and saw it I would not be happy (that is what I personally judge these things on)."
This should be all the answer you need to your question as to why you were slapped.

It's very simple...think about the age group that visits these forums and remember its their forum too, not your personal stomping ground.

Or continue to believe its personal.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
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FredP
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 20:41
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I banned you.I have no personal issue with you.I don't even know you.Just like the ban (which was for one week) to get your attention said I got tired of seeing a bunch of posts from you which made no sense to me.

I would suggest that if someone is on Post Approval that they be on your best behavior so this kind of thing doesn't happen.

I am sure than none of the other mods which to spend a great deal of time going over one person's seemingly endless posts any more than I do.

I will point out that if the original poster of this thread hadn't violated the AUP in the first place there would have been no problem and this thread wouldn't exist.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 21:14
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Quote: "It's not nonsense, its personal."


I dunno, I'd say messages like "POINTS!!!" are more nonsense than personal.

Quote: "This has nothing to do with offending adults except in the sense that they dont want their kids exposed to it...in fact its not prudish...its personal."


I understand that we don't want our kids to exposed to it; because in my opinion we are prudes. Not to be confused with prunes. I don't personally see anything wrong with showing our children the beauty of the human body, as long as we aren't showing them something sexualised. There are far more harmful things to society.

Anyway, thoughts on an automated system that would e-mail warnings/notifications of punishment?

I'm infamous. Enter my name here for proof.
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rolfy
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 21:33 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 21:36
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There is a point to "POINTS" in the Posting Competition so it's actually relevant and just a bit of fun (never post there myself), breaking the AUP is another thing entirely.

Maybe you believe that Brits are prudish, I personally dont think so and am not myself, as I said its nothing to do with adults around here, its the fact these forums are not exclusively adult.

Unless there is a form note for every offense committed breaking the AUP then I dont see what difference it makes if your informed by e-mail that you are slapped. If you got so many posts that might have earned this then what difference would it make which one? You seem to agree that many of your own may have earned one So many you couldn't figure which one? What would be the point unless to argue that case and forget all the others?
If you get slapped and cant figure why then you should read the AUP. As stated if you disagree with a slap or ban you can always e-mail a Mod to ask if it wasn't maybe harsh, but I suspect that folks don't because they know they deserved it and simply want to vent by creating these kind of posts. Expecting that others will agree with them, and some will always jump on board.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
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Quik
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 21:34 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 21:36
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of course there are benjamin - but everyone raises their kids differently - and most people are very defensive when it comes to this, common sense would imply not to post stuff like that on a family friendly forum


Quote: "but I suspect that folks don't because they know they deserved it and simply want to vent by creating these kind of posts"



I think we all, even the mods - can agree that mailing a mod about the issue is far better than creating a thread - which might end up the mod having to ban you :/

Communication people is IMPORTANT.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 23:42 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 03:07
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On the topic of personal moderation (which is a very much existent thing here) I still to this day have no clue why I was banned. I want to know! I really do. I got banned, no one ever once bothered to tell me why. My ban message was "You are the reason for moderation." And what exactly was I supposed to take from that? All I know is that I was non constructively banned. I was personally hurt by being banned as I really didn't know what I was doing in violation, and to top that I was never told what I was doing wrong, so if I was doing something wrong, that ban has not taught me that what I was doing was wrong. Not to mention, while on that ban I reviewed the AUP and my recent posts scrutinously in desperate attempt to figure out why I was banned. No avail.

Quote: "I banned you.I have no personal issue with you.I don't even know you.Just like the ban (which was for one week) to get your attention said I got tired of seeing a bunch of posts from you which made no sense to me."
That's just unacceptable, arrogant, selfish behavior for a mod. Simply banning someone because you don't like what they're writing or because you're getting irritated, regardless of whether it conforms to the AUP or not is WRONG. And made no sense to you? Really? You really think that what makes sense to you and what doesn't constitutes whether or not the user is doing something wrong?

Not sure if I'm just paranoid right now, but I honestly feel like that last paragraph there has excellent potential to get me moderated. However, I know for a fact that that last paragraph is in full conformity to the AUP. I'm risking my ass and posting it anyway because I want to get my point across. I think that says something. It's proof that moderation based upon personal feeling or emotion as theComet mentioned is very real here. It needs to stop.

http://www.google.com/
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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 23:54
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Quote: "There is a point to "POINTS" in the Posting Competition so it's actually relevant and just a bit of fun"


I meant simply posting there for the sake of it, with nonsense messages that otherwise need not be posted (and I'd know, I've done a few of them). I don't really think they are more personal than just random posts to let off steam, ie. nonsense.

Quote: "Maybe you believe that Brits are prudish, I personally dont think so and am not myself"


Well, what I said was really more a commentary of the nudity/violence thing in general rather than the particular case at hand.

Quote: "common sense would imply not to post stuff like that on a family friendly forum"


Agreed, but the problem is we all have different ideas of what is considered 'offensive'. I thought the image in question was a little strange, but not offensive in any way. I'm guessing TheComet had similar thoughts about it.

Perhaps the problem here is cultural relativity?

Quote: "You seem to agree that many of your own may have earned one So many you couldn't figure which one?"


Actually no, I meant that a person might make several silly posts (either for their own amusement or for some sense of irony of the topic), and one in particular will offend someone due to differences in culture. Germans aren't offended by nudity, for example, but a Brit or American might be.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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TheComet
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 00:18
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I'd still like to know why gore and big guns are OK to post on this forum. Or why sexually suggestive signatures are OK.

Regarding the image I posted, I honestly didn't think it was violating anything. Art like that is a common thing in Switzerland. I could go ahead and say I feel offended by the entire FPSC board because of all of the blood and weird naked bodies floating in glass viles. Seriously, the image I posted doesn't even compare to the levels of "offensive" on those boards.

(I'm not offended by the FPSC board, but I don't see how my image is worse.)

Quote: "You can literarily mail ANY mod and he can have a look at the issue - thats really not an issue tbh - the mail button is there for a reason"


I e-mailed 3 moderators when I was banned, and one of them responded.

I'm not expecting any of the moderators to respond to an e-mail within 24 hours. They have real lives outside of TGC, and I understand this. I've just had terrible luck with responses from moderators in the past (not only my banning, but other stuff as well).

Quote: "Unless there is a form note for every offense committed breaking the AUP then I dont see what difference it makes if your informed by e-mail that you are slapped."


Because it's nice to know. It makes a huge difference. Not notifying people about things like this causes cases like dbd79:

Quote: "On the topic of personal moderation (which is a very much existent thing here) I still to this day have no clue why I was banned. I want to know! I really do. I got banned, no one ever once bothered to tell me why. My ban message was "You are the reason for moderation." And what exactly was I supposed to take from that? All I know is that I was non constructively banned. I was personally hurt by being banned as I really didn't know what I was doing in violation, and to top that I was never told what I was doing wrong, so if I was doing something wrong, that ban has not taught me that what I was doing was wrong. Not to mention, while on that ban I reviewed the AUP and my recent posts scrutinously in desperate attempt to figure out why I was banned. No avail."


I'd feel a lot more comfortable even knowing why I was slapped or banned. Maybe you're the kind of person who would label e-mails like that as spam, fine. To each their own.

Also, what makes you think people would know why they were slapped/banned? If they knew they were breaking the rules, they wouldn't post it in the first place unless they are 100% troll.

It all comes down to what Quik said:
Quote: "Communication people is IMPORTANT."


Quote: "It also never ceases to amaze me how folks seem to think its always personal and nothing to do with breaking the rules when they get a slap."


It's the normal human way to react, sorry.

It's easy for you to say with such a clean profile.

Quote: "This should be all the answer you need to your question as to why you were slapped."

Quote: "If you get slapped and cant figure why then you should read the AUP."


I know why I was slapped this time, because I saw the mod edit before I was slapped. Still, a little automated notification would have been greatly appreciated.

@ FredP

Thank you.

I'm sorry my posts annoyed you.

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
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rolfy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 00:18 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 00:37
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I don't think anyone should be slapped or banned for having a laugh, it would be very stifling (unless your jokes suck,in which case I am all for it and should ban myself).
Thing is we should all be grown up enough to know whats acceptable by now, particularly those who have been around long enough to know better.
This forum is in fact multi cultural and should be approached as such by users, if you even think its going to offend then dont hit the post button, there are many ways to have a joke or pull someones leg without it appearing like an attack or offensive to others, its simply common sense and not something you should nit pick over like a court lawyer(not saying you are personally), I do get the point.

Cultural differences have no real bearing (Germans can approve whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, same as anyone else wherever they are from), its about adult content such as swearing, offensive remarks, nudity etc. Which have no place on a family forum.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
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TheComet
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 00:31
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Quote: "its about adult content such as swearing, offensive remarks, nudity etc. Which have no place on a family forum."


And yet shooting people and blood in computer games is fine? (look at any FPSC board). Something is wrong here if you ask me.

I'm not saying boobies should suddenly be allowed, but the image I posted can't be half as bad as the games produced on this forum. If the boobies were central to the image and sexually suggestive, we'd be having a different discussion.

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 01:09
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If it weren't for the fact that all the crap would probably spew out into the rest of the forum, I really wish the posting competition would die. It's like the cringey nightclub that no-one goes too anymore because they know the kids with the fake IDs hang out there all the time.

Metaphor

'What the bloody hell is going on?'
-Desmond, 'Lost'
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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 01:31
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Quote: "I really wish the posting competition would die"


The Posting Competition can be really useful when certain people aren't filling it with crap. I used to ask quick questions there and you get a quick response without having to make a thread, which is good.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 02:55 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 03:02
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Quote: "Quote: "Personally, I think 99% of the time there is no need for disciplinary action."
Personal opinion?"

Yes, I stated it as opinion.

Quote: "After Moderating this place (with the other Mods), for going on 7 years now...I disagree. Whether you think we're "heavy-handed" or not, does not interest us. We do what we need to do, to keep this place out of flameland, and running smoothly. We give PLENTY of warnings; which often go unheeded."

I did say that in general the mods give good warning, but there are still times when they seem heavy-handed. As a mod, you should be interested in the opinions of forum members, that doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

I have only been slapped twice, to my recollection. The first was for stoking a religious argument, which was a totally justified slap; the second was for using the accronym "WTF" (which I deliberately used to avoid swearing). I didn't take either as a personal attack, but I felt the second one was unreasonable.
That's my personal experience but I've seen other occasions were one side or the other overreacted: it could be a mod that jumps the gun when it's not necessary or a member who continues to whine about being moderated.

All mods have their on and off days, but I wouldn't say there was anyone I've come into contact with here whom is a bad moderator. You guys seem to get an equal amount of praise and criticism on the forum, so that probably means you're doing it about right.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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rolfy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 03:18
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Mods enforce the rules they don't write them or make it up as they go along. I don't see why they should listen to members for this simple reason. Its what should be keeping them impartial, lets be honest here, the ones that whine about moderation are usually the ones with a rap sheet.
Maybe some feel picked out all the time but again lets be honest, if you look over your past discrepancies, I bet we will find we were let off the hook on numerous occasions. Nobody is likely to remember not being moderated.

If you feel like your being mistreated by Mod Dredd then its because yu likely keep inviting it.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 03:36
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I think the issue here is when mods stretch the rules. Follow the rules as they exist in the AUP, that's fine and if anything needs to be done. But do things out of personal impulse, no.

http://www.google.com/
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rolfy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 03:58 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 04:10
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Quote: "Moderators discuss most actions - the forum is fairly quiet right now, we have plenty of time to consider this stuff and discuss it with other mods."

Quote: "What I do know having been a forumite for many years here and since getting access to the mod lounge I have found that they discuss a great deal before taking action on anyone (good or bad) and care a lot about keeping the forum a friendly, helpful place to come. I personally place most of the reasons I like coming here on their shoulders and would think twice about contradicting them, not because of the "power" they have but because they have helped build this sanctuary."
I read this as "no single Mod made this decision as it was discussed in the lounge" I see nothing that implies 'impulse'. Do you believe ALL the mods are against you on a whim?


Quote: "If you are on post approval, don't post in the posting competition thread - because that thread is there to catch all the rubbish, it's there because we don't want to deal with it - we don't want to have to approve umpteen posts for that thread, it adds nothing to the forum, it's not worth our time"


Quote: "Maybe it should be added to the rules - if you are on post approval, don't post rubbish or it won't be approved... "

Maybe we would send him a warning first, but then we don't moderate this forum nor do we give up our time protecting it all. So we don't know the full circumstances.
If it weren't for the Mods this would be a cesspit. I am not butt kissing, I like this forum for the clean rep it has compared to others.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
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xplosys
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 04:57 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 05:07
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Quote: "If it weren't for the Mods this would be a cesspit."


2 beers to the one who gets the reference. (easy one)

"You weren't here when the real disturbances began. The forum degenerated into a total fear zone. The members cocooning behind their keyboards, afraid to type. People just wanted the madness over. When the MOD's saw the chance to make things right...
...They seized it. If they had not, the radiance of the forums would not be here. Just your rotting cesspool of hate and flaming. Which would you prefer?"

Brian.
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 08:33
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Quote: " I still to this day have no clue why I was banned. I want to know! I really do."



did you ever try to.. mail a mod about it?

Quote: "I e-mailed 3 moderators when I was banned, and one of them responded."



This is quite odd - back when I was banned, I just mailed a mod - and it wasnt even the mod that banned me, and he pointed me in the right direction - i got to know why and even have my own personal input (fairly sure i contacted the mod that banned me later, and talked about it) - i was able to go from a week long ban to a month long "noob slap". - which to me, seems like a fair deal~



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 09:17 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 09:20
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Quote: "did you ever try to.. mail a mod about it?"
Well no kidding... :/

You aren't under the impression that mods will always reply, are you? Because they usually don't. Not in my experience. And that time was no different. I mailed three mods. None replied.

http://www.google.com/
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 09:21
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I don't think a clearer definition is needed. No boobs is pretty standard etiquette.

But posting something like, "warning artsy but nsfw" w/ a link would be fine (IMO)


"I <3 u 2 bbz" - Dark Frager
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 09:28
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no neuro - it would not be fine - family friendly forum means EVERYONE in the family is supposed to be able to browse the forum - meaning that 90% of the parents would not at all be happy if you posted boob pictures, even with "nsfw" - heck, most kids wouldnt even understand what you mean.

and regarding gore - in the end of the day, it is a gaming forum - meaning gore etc is more or less expected - and parents should obv keep track of their kids - BUT, that doesnt mean we have to clutter the forum with even more "mature stuff" than necessary.


Quote: "You aren't under the impression that mods will always reply, are you?"


No I am not, but nobody here even said that they did - and that should be the first order of buisness. However if you did - and they didnt answer - and, as you say normally don't - then I would agree, it is a problem



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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 09:39
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Does somepony was ever banned with full AUP 3.13 action?

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
«If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases in the grave»
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 10:03
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Quote: "then I would agree, it is a problem"
Ah, goody.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 10:56 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 10:59
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Quote: "no neuro - it would not be fine - family friendly forum means EVERYONE in the family is supposed to be able to browse the forum - meaning that 90% of the parents would not at all be happy if you posted boob pictures, even with "nsfw" - heck, most kids wouldnt even understand what you mean."

Meh, the way I look at it is, "would I get slapped for this". I'd expect to get slapped for embedding the image, but if I wanted to share it I'd risk posting it w/ a link and a warning; It seems reasonable to me. But what. There have been other posts with boobs and profuse swearing a click or two away, with the warning, "nsfw". Especially since that one I'd call more artistic than pornographic.

But yeah, moot point anyways since this is more about mod messages, and he didn't link it, he embedded it. (But I'll probably still link things of an against-AUP nature with an appropriate warning if I so choose, it's just to my judgement/discretion). (mods can't read inside parentheses right?!) (wasn't there someone that posted a youtube link to a certain... soft-body physics simulation of hundreds of... inappropriate objects? XD )

[edit]
Is it alright to say boobs when talking about a post with pictures of boobs in it? It still feels inappropriate to say boobs on this forum. But I suppose boobs are on-topic. (I am of course talking about the boob that posted it [Just saying words not throwing an actual insult with any meaning])


"I <3 u 2 bbz" - Dark Frager
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 11:12
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"I wonder if i'd get slapped for this..."
"posts link"
"gets slapped"
"repeats problem"
"gets banned"
"whines at forum"

I think we have the problem right here... I cant really put my finger on it though...



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Thraxas
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 11:16
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If you email me and I don't reply then it's because it's hit my spam filter. I might not reply straight away but I do reply.

I did the initial slap for the image with swearing. The Comet emailed me with an apology and I replied. I didn't find the image he posted offensive but others did and it certainly wasn't a personal piece of moderation on my part.

I did also say in my post about the slap that if there were other similar images out there that I missed please tell me. I do browse these forums daily but I don't have the time to check every thread, so I (and the other mods) may miss some things.

There is a special page where all the posts awaiting approval sit. I have it set as my TGC bookmark so it's the first page I visit when I come to the forums. Sometimes it has A LOT of posts in it. It takes a while to sift through the spam etc, and sometimes unfortunately the bots do get through.

I try to be open in my discussion about slaps and bans. If I do have a personal problem with someone (for example Crispex) then I won't moderate them. I might leave a post in the mods lounge and leave it for the other mods to deal with.

Stuttering in images! Can you help?
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 11:19
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Quote: " If I do have a personal problem with someone (for example Crispex) then I won't moderate them. I might leave a post in the mods lounge and leave it for the other mods to deal with."


That's very appreciated I think



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Wolf
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 11:19 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 11:21
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Quote: "So yeah, I'd like some clearer guidelines, because the next thing I know, I'll be banned for posting a harmless picture of a horse race because "the rear end of the horse was visible" or something.
"


No boobs, rear ends or crotches.

Personally I think nudity restrictions regarding breasts are downright stupid because most people have them constantly in their face when they are infants and then regain a working relationship with them once they reach their adolescence.
There is also no way they damage young boys in any way. Hardcore porn might...but boobs? They are just...fun.
BUT these are the rules on here designed to comfort everyone, they make somewhat sense as you have to draw the line between adult material and family friendly stuff somewhere and this forum here has a "no nudity" policy which is really easy to comply with by applying black bars or something


You need to keep in mind that the mods around here are just folks like us and are part of this forum for leisure just as much as we are. Disagreements happen.

Quote: "Maybe it's just my username. Maybe every moderator who glances at the post approval queue goes "oh god, not HIM again! I'll pass this one"."


Your ego would make a good adversary for godzilla, eh?
Just kidding: I have been around here for quite some time and red numerous posts by you. You never have been that much of a menace.

Quote: "And yet shooting people and blood in computer games is fine?"

No! Its really not and from my current mindset I feel slightly estranged by the excessive way I contributed to it.
I dont want to defend it but videogame violence as such will always only be attractive to minors. Adults (usually) dont get attracted by anything due to violence and gore alone. Videogame violence will only lead to videogame violence on here but:

Having loose policys about nudity will however lead to porn or other sexual content really quick. (not quik)

Quote: " I am not butt kissing, I like this forum for the clean rep it has compared to others."


My view exactly, its a very engaging and friendly environment without being pretentious and that is rare on the webs.

I think the mods do a good job, are approachable and don't behave like SS officers which a lot on other forums do.



-Wolf

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Without struggle,no progress and no result.Every breaking of habit produces a change in the machine.
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 12:24
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Quote: "really quick. (not quik)"



that made me chuckle a bit xD



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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 12:39 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 12:40
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Quote: ""I wonder if i'd get slapped for this...""


but in what I'm suggesting, it's more like:
"I wonder if I'd get slapped for this"
<takes reasonable countermeasures or doesn't post>
<doesn't get banned or slapped>

[edit]
not that I'm making a concrete suggestion. Just saying words.


"I <3 u 2 bbz" - Dark Frager
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 15:58
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Hey guys, so what about AUP 3.13 section? Was it ever used at full power?

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KeithC
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 16:26
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@ Handy: Yes.

-Keith

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 16:37
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OMG I hope it was just a spammer.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 17:29
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Mr handy, yes it has. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 people who have been blocked from the website.

Stuttering in images! Can you help?
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Libervurto
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 17:41
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I don't think any sane person finds boobs offensive, but if little Timmy is visiting the TGC forum to learn about coding and his parents see nude pictures on the screen they might get the wrong idea about what sort of site this is and ban little Timmy from visiting the forums.

I'm sure there are many sites for the artistic appreciation of lady parts that don't have the same concerns.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:01
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Quote: "I don't think any sane person finds boobs offensive"

I was slapped once for a boob plugin.

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«If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases in the grave»
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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:18
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I think the issue here is that, while some posts are not strictly breaking the AUP, they are horribly annoying and irritating to the point of being harmful to the sanity of other users. I am okay with this kind of moderation.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 23:04 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 23:05
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I say we split the forum into two political sides!! (this will go over well)

We shall have the optimistics and the freedomists.

Optimistic: Supports moderation for the better of the forum. May allow moderation to occur upon users who are following the AUP.

Freedomist: Never supports the moderation of users who are following the AUP, believes in the notion that irritating but AUP following forumites are totally innocent.

http://www.google.com/
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 23:57
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Quote: "Optimistic: Supports moderation for the better of the forum. May allow moderation to occur upon users who are following the AUP.

Freedomist: Never supports the moderation of users who are following the AUP, believes in the notion that irritating but AUP following forumites are totally innocent."


Correction: Optimistic: Supports moderation for the better of the forum. May allow moderation to occur upon users who are following the AUP.

Freedomists <here's the difference>: Never supports the moderation of users who are or are not following the AUP, believes in the notion that forumites are totally innocent, no matter what.



Just making both sides equally as radical.



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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:20
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More appropriate terms would be Loyalists (Optimists) and Anarchists (Freedomists).

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:22 Edited at: 24th May 2013 01:23
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That's probably true, but any freedomist will then support their moderation if they were breaking AUP rules, only once they pipe down, however.

I think we need Seppuku in here. He'd clear everything up in a blink.

http://www.google.com/
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